Carbide Sizer

[raffica]

Greetings to all.
I seek an in Carbide Sizer for my Magma Star Lube-Sizer( .355" , .356" , .400" , .401", .357" .358" , .451" .452").
Someone can give me any information on the Manufacturers ?
Thank's.

[sagacious]

Why carbide?

[raffica]

Why carbide?
Hi,
I use a lead alloy very hard , 28-30 HBN.
The sizer Magma work well, but the finish is not shiny, perhaps with a harder surface (carbide) will be better.

[Calamity Jake]

Greetings to all.
I seek an in Carbide Sizer for my Magma Star Lube-Sizer( .355" , .356" , .400" , .401", .357" .358" , .451" .452").
Someone can give me any information on the Manufacturers ?
Thank's.

You will have to have them custom made by a company that has the tools to turn/grind carbide, and beleave my it will not be cheep.
A machine tool manufacter could do it but you may have to order a 100 of one size to got them to to even look at it.

"Hi,
I use a lead alloy very hard , 28-30 HBN.
The sizer Magma work well, but the finish is not shiny, perhaps with a harder surface (carbide) will be better. "

Why do they have to be shinny?

You can polish the ID of your star dies to improve the finish, that will help for the shinny part. But again WHY?

[mooman76]

Targets won't know the difference.

[462]

Do you want the boolits to be shinier?

[raffica]

It's my work.
I am a Little Bullet Maker, in Italy.
I want to improve my product.

[raffica]

Do you want the boolits to be shinier?

Yes.
For my it is very important.

[mooman76]

What about polishing the insides of your sizer? Might that work?

[HeavyMetal]

So the finish is required to "WOW" the customer.

I can understand "curb" appeal. How ever the shiney'ier the finish the faster I think it would dull after sizing.

Depending, of course, on storage method.

I have never seen a carbide sizer die for the Star, or any other sizer for that matter, but you might make inquiries with Magma about Commercial dies.

A lot of commercial caster's use the Star for mass production and they may offer a carbide die because of a longer life span, as lead can be abrasive, but not have it listed in the general information.

Other wise I think a polishing set up of some kind should be looked at. At 30 BHN these may not dent if you put them in a tumbler with corn cob to polish them. After wards inspect and vacuum pack to prevent tarnishing.

[raffica]

So the finish is required to "WOW" the customer.

I can understand "curb" appeal. How ever the shiney'ier the finish the faster I think it would dull after sizing.

Depending, of course, on storage method.

I have never seen a carbide sizer die for the Star, or any other sizer for that matter, but you might make inquiries with Magma about Commercial dies.

A lot of commercial caster's use the Star for mass production and they may offer a carbide die because of a longer life span, as lead can be abrasive, but not have it listed in the general information.

Other wise I think a polishing set up of some kind should be looked at. At 30 BHN these may not dent if you put them in a tumbler with corn cob to polish them. After wards inspect and vacuum pack to prevent tarnishing.

I use a slow rotation tumbler with dry lube before the sizing/lubricating,to remove the grip that is created betwenn bullet/ sizer.
The bullets come shining and smooth out the tumbler, but when sizing put out.......bad ....

[raffica]

What about polishing the insides of your sizer? Might that work?
I'm not sure you understand the question.
I have not done anything to my sizer's.

[deltaenterprizes]

You could get a slightly oversized die plated with the gold colored TI nitride Hornady uses on it's dies instead of carbide.

[cheese1566]

Check with C-H, they do titanium nitride coatings...

http://www.ch4d.com/

[mooman76]

I'm not sure you understand the question.
I have not done anything to my sizer's.

I believe I understand your question fine. If you polish your sizer dies (inside), wouldn't the bullets come out smoother? And if they come out smoother, shouldn't come out shinier?

[sagacious]

I use a slow rotation tumbler with dry lube before the sizing/lubricating,to remove the grip that is created betwenn bullet/ sizer.
The bullets come shining and smooth out the tumbler, but when sizing put out.......bad ....

OK, I see what your process is. Carbide will not help. The hardness of the material that the sizer is made of is of no consequence. If the carbide and steel have the same surface finish, they will give the same "polish" to the bullet. The lead does not know if it is carbide or steel.

The problem is that you're tumble-lubing before sizing. The dry lube prevents the bullet from being polished. To polish, one needs to remove or displace a very small amount of material, whereas you're just swaging the material slightly. The dry lube fills in all imperfections and dents that got created during tumbling, so that they don't get swaged out under pressure. Those dents can't be polished out because they're full of dry lube.

Test it. Put an untumbled/unlubed bullet though your sizer and see what happens. It will be shinier than one that has been tumbled/lubed. This is a well-known phenomenon.

Best of luck to you.

[raffica]

I believe I understand your question fine. If you polish your sizer dies (inside), wouldn't the bullets come out smoother? And if they come out smoother, shouldn't come out shinier?

I try to polish the inside of the sizer with fine diamond paste.

[raffica]

The lead does not know if it is carbide or steel.

I'm not sure of this.
For example, the brass cases become more shiny when resizing in the carbide dies ,perhaps the hard lead alloy.



The problem is that you're tumble-lubing before sizing. The dry lube prevents the bullet from being polished. To polish, one needs to remove or displace a very small amount of material, whereas you're just swaging the material slightly. The dry lube fills in all imperfections and dents that got created during tumbling, so that they don't get swaged out under pressure. Those dents can't be polished out because they're full of dry lube.


Interesting.
I had not thought of this. I will try this:
1) polish the inside of the sizer.
2) to eliminate the process in tumbler
If you are interested, you'll know the results.
Thank you all for your cooperation.

[raffica]

Check with C-H, they do titanium nitride coatings...

http://www.ch4d.com/

Thank's for link.
If the tests do not work to write them for information.
Greetings

[sagacious]

I'm not sure of this.
For example, the brass cases become more shiny when resizing in the carbide dies ,perhaps the hard lead alloy.
Raffica,
The situation is different for those examples. The brass is burnished by the carbide sizing ring in the cartridge resizing die. "Burnished" means polished by smooth metal-to-metal rubbing. Steel cartridge resizing dies do not have a "sizing ring" and thus do not burnish the brass in the same way. The mechanics of operation between steel and carbide/nitride cartridge sizing dies is very different.

Interesting.
I had not thought of this. I will try this:
1) polish the inside of the sizer.
2) to eliminate the process in tumbler
If you are interested, you'll know the results.
Thank you all for your cooperation.
Yes, please first test your existing equipment without modification. Before you try to polish, simply resize the bullets without tumbling and see what the results are. If you must use a lubricant, use a liquid spray-on lubricant on the lead. You may not need to use any lubricant, as the wax lube in the resizer is usually adequate. This works for me, and the bullets are shiny after resizing.

Also, for the lead to become shiny, the bullets must be at least .025mm in diameter larger than your resizing die. If the bullet is the same size or almost the same size as the sizer, not enough burnishing will happen, and the lead will not become shiny. If you polish your dies, you may decrease the amount of burnishing. Test before polishing the sizer.

Let us know how it works for you. Good luck.

[raffica]

Raffica,
The situation is different for those examples. The brass is burnished by the carbide sizing ring in the cartridge resizing die. "Burnished" means polished by smooth metal-to-metal rubbing. Steel cartridge resizing dies do not have a "sizing ring" and thus do not burnish the brass in the same way. The mechanics of operation between steel and carbide/nitride cartridge sizing dies is very different.

Yes, please first test your existing equipment without modification. Before you try to polish, simply resize the bullets without tumbling and see what the results are. If you must use a lubricant, use a liquid spray-on lubricant on the lead. You may not need to use any lubricant, as the wax lube in the resizer is usually adequate. This works for me, and the bullets are shiny after resizing.

Also, for the lead to become shiny, the bullets must be at least .025mm in diameter larger than your resizing die. If the bullet is the same size or almost the same size as the sizer, not enough burnishing will happen, and the lead will not become shiny. If you polish your dies, you may decrease the amount of burnishing. Test before polishing the sizer.

Let us know how it works for you. Good luck.

Ok, sagacious,Thank's for all.
I try your suggestions.
I'll let you know .
Greetings