100yard 38 snubbie load

[357maximum]

Just thought I would share my new 38 special load I now use for 100 yard practice in my smith and wesson model 36 chiefs special (my carry gun, but not my carry load).

BRP 38 Hornady SWC clone tumbled in LLA and dusted with mica made from almost pure lead.

2.2 grains 700X

Remington 38target brass

Magtech SP primer

this is my new 100 yard bowling pin snubbie load and it works real well if someone may be looking for such a load.

[crabo]

I've never used 700X. What are its virtues? I like the idea of the load just to jack with people's heads.

[357maximum]

virtues..perfectly great reduced load rifle/pistol powder just a touch faster than greendot.

....and I bought almost 24 lbs of it from an old trapshooter for a song.:evil:

I should specify that this is for single lined out pins at 100 yards. I was simply "swinging" through the pin going from low to high and when I eclipsed the knob on the pin I PULLED the trigger.......just like the butt, belly, beak, boom method of shooting a bird with a shorgun. I shoot these instinctively and ignore the sights and if I must say so myself is a method that works rather well for me.

[Eagles6]

Never shot my snubbie at a 100 yds but why not? The most accurate boolit I have for it is the 148 gr Hornady HBWC and I've got some 700x. Never know when it might come in handy.

[357maximum]

Never shot my snubbie at a 100 yds but why not? .


Exactly....the boolit has to land somewhere and it is big fun, out of the ordinary and a great thing to do when your shoulder is sore from shooting dutch4122's 7.62X54 " 300 ultra " mosin naggant rounds.:twisted::Fire:

*see the second part of my signature line*:Fire:[smilie=1:

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I have used 2.6 grains of 700X in the 38 special for my S&W M52 with the H&G #251....a 148 grain WC. It cycles the action and is accurate at 25 and 50 yards. Burns clean and recoil is very low. Have shot Bullseye comp with it. LLS

[jh45gun]

So your telling me you can hit with a 38 snubbie at a 100 yards shooting bowling pins and NOT USE THE SIGHTS? I would like to see it before I believe it.

[StarMetal]

Long ago I shot lots of 700X in my 45 Colt with cast loads. Some were magnum loads. It was cheap back then so I tried it.

[44MAG#1]

So your telling me you can hit with a 38 snubbie at a 100 yards shooting bowling pins and NOT USE THE SIGHTS? I would like to see it before I believe it.

I don't think he was getting any bullet skid going into the rifling as he was gently easing the bullet into them.
Now I see what I was doing wrong this morn at 50 with a 45 Colt, a Keith RCBS 270 SAA bullet and 18.0 gr of 2400 in my Ruger New Vaquero.[smilie=p:

[mtgrs737]

Years ago my BIL and I both had model 36's that we used to have informal "snubby Shoots" with at 25 yds. It was a lot of fun, my load was 3grs. of Red Dot and a 142 gr. wadcutter cast of scrap soft lead. It was mild to shoot and more accurate than you might think. I have used 700x and find it to be an excellent powder that burns clean and meters well.

[Hardcast416taylor]

357Maximum. Please don`t remind me of the Mosin rounds Dutch4122 makes, I`ve shot them! Seriously they shoot well and group quite well - till my shoulder fell off!Robert

[anachronism]

100 yard bowling pins? I'm amazed that such a light load would drive the bowling pins back almost 4 feet to clear the table at that distance.


Now where the heck is that chain yanking GIF?

[Dutch4122]

So your telling me you can hit with a 38 snubbie at a 100 yards shooting bowling pins and NOT USE THE SIGHTS? I would like to see it before I believe it.


You can believe it. I was there. I saw 357Max hitting the pins with 3 out of 5 rounds consistantly; standing on two feet offhand at 100 yards with the gun and load listed.

There was no worries about clearing off a table as the pins were sitting on the ground. They just kinda flopped over on their sides. :)

As for my Mosin loads they are still a work in progress. Good thing I have a few friends that I can let shoot them. Gives my poor shoulder a break from all that abuse!:kidding:

[Caster Blaster]

700x burning clean!?! I use it to great success in my .38 and my .45acp but then spend at least a half hour scrubbing my 1911, what the heck am I doing wrong? or is that just a "lets screw with the newbies" statement.

[mtgrs737]

Maybe a bad lot? Or too light of a load that doesn't build enough pressure to burn clean?

[shooting on a shoestring]

Don't be quick to sell snubbies short, especially the J-Frames. I often shoot my high-mileage Mod 60 better than I do my 4&5/8" Blackhawk. The J-Frame gets swallowed up in my grip, and its very consistent and stable. Sounds odd if you haven't done it, but believe it. Also, 38s have no trouble getting to 100 yds.

As for 700x, I've burned a couple of pounds and found it to be very position insensitive, very much like Bullseye. However, due to its large flake kernals, it doesn't meter as consistently as the smaller kernals of Bullseye. That aside, even with a couple of tenths variation in charge weight the groups didn't show it.

[jh45gun]

not knocking snubbies or 38 specials it was the comment about no sights at 100 yards I have a hard time believing.

[mike in co]

if you line up enough pins in a row and point high enough you migh actually see where your boolits land and compensate enough to have a boolit hit the row........


now dutch did he call his shots...???pin one on shot one ?

i have shot at 100 with a 357 but not a snubbie 38.


mike in co

( i did not say it did not happen. i have had succesive hits on a 300 yd gong with my 9mm..pistol...with two witnesses ......)

[S.R.Custom]

not knocking snubbies or 38 specials it was the comment about no sights at 100 yards I have a hard time believing.


Every now and then I get the urge to carry the ol' Star PD. One day, I was at a buddy's house, where he has a dinner plate size gong on a hillside 205 meters away. At his goading, I pulled the PD and promptly dropped a couple of successive chunks of hardball into that gong with the 3" Star, off-hand standing. He just stared at me like I was a freak. I missed the next three, but after that I was hitting 50% out of each magazine for a whole box of shells.

It's a weapon familiarity/zen thing... If you really know the weapon and load, you can pretty much drop 'em in there at will. You're not even aware of the sights when you do it.

[Dutch4122]

now dutch did he call his shots...???pin one on shot one ?
mike in co
( i did not say it did not happen. i have had succesive hits on a 300 yd gong with my 9mm..pistol...with two witnesses ......)

He did not call the shots. What he did was to work consistantly from left to right; and not move on to the next pin until the one he was shooting at had gone down. The pins were spray painted orange, which really helped make them stand out individually at 100 yards.

I guess the best way I can describe it is that a combination of factors all come together when Mikey picks up that little gun. A fine old snubbie that fits his hand perfectly,with a great trigger, and the perfect load. Combine all that with a "Pinewood Savage" who's done more off hand & instinctive shooting than most of us ever will, and this is the result.

I'd find it hard to believe too, sights or no sights:shock:, if I hadn't been there.:holysheep

[357maximum]

Pinewood Savage........most of my other friends just call me ANIMAL:bigsmyl2: but then again you just might be a bit more "civilized" than some of my other friends.:bigsmyl2:


If I try to use the sights on that gun............I miss unless the target is real close.

For some reason that I cannot explain that little smith just does better when I look at the target, disregard the sights and pull the trigger when the grey matter says so. The same thing works for me with a shotgun and is why I excel at skeet and suck royally at trap....not sure what that says about me but[smilie=l: Trap gives me a chance to think about it............which in my case is not good. Some things just work better without thought. Must have been all the years I carried a longbow/recurve/slingshot somehow re-wired my brain/eye/arm/finger connections.

and yes my shoulder is still tender from Dutch's full throttle cast noisy maggot loads.:bigsmyl2: Dutch is doing things with cast in them ugleeeee guns that common knowledge simply says cannot be. So whether you are trying for 2500+ in a mosin or shooting 100 yrds instinctively with a snubbie.............the boolit has to land somewhere........and just because you have not tried it does not mean it cannot be.

[357maximum]

I would also like to add that most of the success of this load belongs to BaBore. He designed a perfect boolit for shooting a 35 caliber slow. It took him several attempts to perfect the hornady clone swc but he got it done. He made 2 or 3 versions of this boolit before he was satisfied and I am simply reaping the benefits of his hard work.


This boolit loves to go slow and it does not seem to matter which 35 I launch it slow out of. My 357max, 35rem, 357, 38, 35 whelen all seem to dote on this slug made from pure lead and then barely driven to the target. I have been using a bunch of them. I cast them in masse and then give em a light tumble in LLA and then shake-n-bake them in motor mica for the perfet plinker boolit. My 35 rem will one hole them at 100 with 5grains of 700X in a 1951 336SC. This boolit is still stable at obscene distances aqnd if you can do your part this boolit will do it's part............everytime. I bought a 4 holer from Bruce and now wish I have bought a 6.

[9.3X62AL]

Never say "never", never say "always" in this hobby field.

Max, I know EXACTLY how you feel when it comes to shotgun shooting. The more thought given to the process, the safer the targets get. Shotgunning is something (for me, anyway) better just DONE than dwelt upon.

Handgun shooting to some degree runs the same way. I seldom use sights on a target under 15 yards away, and can point-shoot small targets (jackrabbits) to 25-30 yards fairly well. I never use sights on running targets, but treat a rifle or handgun like a shotgun--swing ahead and fire. I hit with some frequency, too.

[crabo]

357, what's the fastest you've pushed this boolit?


Anyone else use this boolit?

[357maximum]

357, what's the fastest you've pushed this boolit?


Anyone else use this boolit?



This boolit was designed from the ground up to go slow accurately and to stay stable at extended distances at that slow speed. I have run pure "ish" boolits very accurately from 400-950 FPS in several toys. With an alloy adjustment more could be accomplished I am sure, but I have not gone there myself. I could proably get a bit more out of the boolit fps wise, but that is not what I want to do. I have other boolits when I want to go faster than the speed of sound.

BaBore may have done a tougher/faster alloy test but I am unsure about that. Maybe he will chime in when he gets to the shop on Monday.

[Changeling]

That really sounds awesome, I would love to see a video of that if you ever have the time.

[rhbrink]

I would like to see what the boolit looks like, pretty fond of the 35 cal myself.

[NSP64]

I have a 3" 38 that I shoot 100yrds all the time. I use Lee 105gr SWC over 4.0gr 231 (Zippy). I used to amaxe my friends with my 1911 @ 100yrds. For some reason people think the boolit just goes so far then drops straight down. I also like CCI subsonic 22LR out of my savage rifle @ 200 yrds.:bigsmyl2:


You wouldn't think a 22lr has much umpf @ 200yrds , but there was an article about someone shooting clothing wrapped turkeys @ 300yrds and getting pass through.

[crabo]

This boolit was designed from the ground up to go slow accurately and to stay stable at extended distances at that slow speed. I have run pure "ish" boolits very accurately from 400-950 FPS in several toys. With an alloy adjustment more could be accomplished I am sure, but I have not gone there myself. I could proably get a bit more out of the boolit fps wise, but that is not what I want to do. I have other boolits when I want to go faster than the speed of sound.

BaBore may have done a tougher/faster alloy test but I am unsure about that. Maybe he will chime in when he gets to the shop on Monday.

Actually I don't care about max, it is the slower range that I have been having problems with. I am finding the idea of a TL boolit to be attractive if I knew it would work.

Have you tried it in a lever gun? With a .295 nose, it should work great. Are you also using the top groove as your crimp groove or are you taper crimping it?

For the people that want to see the boolet, go to

http://www.brp.castpics.net/P1.html

[357maximum]

Actually I don't care about max, it is the slower range that I have been having problems with. I am finding the idea of a TL boolit to be attractive if I knew it would work.Like I posted..BaBore was wanting the same thing.............with due diligence on his part he found the way there............I am just working off from what he already did. Alot of people can make a mould, Bruce makes sure things "WORK".

Have you tried it in a lever gun? With a .295 nose, it should work great. Are you also using the top groove as your crimp groove or are you taper crimping it?I have shot several hundred through my marlin 336SC and am tickled. I was able to hit a 180 yard 1 foot square gong about 90+% of the time offhand with the deadstock iron sights. I am seating to about the top groove but I would not call what I do a "CRIMP" I just remove the flare from the m-die.

For the people that want to see the boolet, go to

http://www.brp.castpics.net/P1.html


Bruce also has a 30caliber rifle PLINKER that works super in 30/30's. So far I have been tickled to death in the win 94 and the pre73 H&R topper using a 4-5 gr charge of 700X. I have just begun the work in an 1893 spanish mauser sporter in 308 and am very tickled with what it has been doing over 6 grains of 700X. Plinking is big fun especially with loads that YOU KNOW will do it if YOU can.

[TCLouis]

It ain't so without pictures.

Would you please post pics of the boolit?

[crabo]

Ac

For the people that want to see the boolet, go to

http://www.brp.castpics.net/P1.html

Here it is

[357maximum]

Here ya go all ready to fly. There is no crimp on either round even though the 38special WCC74 mil brass looks like there is..........it is an optical illusion from the old crimp.

[45 2.1]

As for my Mosin loads they are still a work in progress. Good thing I have a few friends that I can let shoot them. Gives my poor shoulder a break from all that abuse!:kidding:

I'm gonna remember this.........................

[357maximum]

I'm gonna remember this.........................

Just be sure you reserve a little room on the "hardrive" to remember to bring some guns and some ammo. :lol: THATS PLURAL :lol:

[45 2.1]

Just be sure you reserve a little room on the "hardrive" to remember to bring some guns and some ammo. :lol: THATS PLURAL :lol:

I'll remember as well as you did last year.....................:kidding:

[Dframe]

I've often shot at 100 yards with my Detective Special. Lots of fun.

[357maximum]

I'll remember as well as you did last year.....................:kidding:

:veryconfu I see your memory is already failing.:veryconfu With a memory failing that badly how you gonna find them 20 year old boolits that are now "aged and ready".:twisted:

[Dutch4122]

I'm gonna remember this.........................


Don't worry, I'm as good as my word.:mrgreen: The only condition is that they have to be shooting up to an acceptable standard even with my failing dominant eye. Hopefully the Optometrist (sp?) can provide some more temporary relief from this affliction; as the rear sights on my milsurps are getting fuzzy again.

I've got plenty of velocity, and much to spare. Just need to find the "sweet spot" with this boolit & powder. Top end loads are not going to be the most accurate here. Something along the lines of the original Mosin Nagant rounds performance level will probably be the most accurate load. Next step after that will be to duplicate the results in more than one rifle, if possible with the same boolit, and powder with a similar charge.

If not, then the Mosins may not make the trip. Don't want to bring out a show pony until ready.

[357maximum]

Don't worry, I'm as good as my word.:mrgreen: The only condition is that they have to be shooting up to an acceptable standard even with my failing dominant eye. Hopefully the Optometrist (sp?) can provide some more temporary relief from this affliction; as the rear sights on my milsurps are getting fuzzy again.

I've got plenty of velocity, and much to spare. Just need to find the "sweet spot" with this boolit & powder. Top end loads are not going to be the most accurate here. Something along the lines of the original Mosin Nagant rounds performance level will probably be the most accurate load. Next step after that will be to duplicate the results in more than one rifle, if possible with the same boolit, and powder with a similar charge.

If not, then the Mosins may not make the trip. Don't want to bring out a show pony until ready.



They will be ready, yar almost there do not fret. From what I saw all you need is a slight tweak............and I will second the "PLENTY OF VELOCITY" thing...my shoulder is still a bit tender. :oops: I should have grabbed that strap on wuss pad sooner I suppose. [smilie=l: Any more power in them loads would feel like the time I caught the dodge truck mirror to the shoulder while working in a "closed" lane on the road.

Do not be like someone else we know and start making excuses already. :lol:

[BABore]

357, what's the fastest you've pushed this boolit?


Anyone else use this boolit?

My normal load for this boolit is 5.0 grains of WW 231 with a CCI 500 primer. I cast them from mostly pure lead at 750 F. They're lubed with a one thinned coat of LLA and given a dusting of motor mica. I thin my LLA 50/50 with mineral spirits. From my S&W 686, 8 3/8 I'm clocking close to 1,100 fps. My shooting buddy uses the same load but at 5.5 grain of 231 in his 6" Security Six and 10", 357 T/C Contender.

As 357Max stated, I tried many different designs to get one to shoot slow and soft. When I shot NRA Silhoutte, the go-to 357 load was the Hornady 158 gr swaged SWC. Most everybody I shot with used the 5.0-5.5 grains of WW 231 with it. Out of my 686 the Hornady boolit will group 1/2 to 5/8 for 5 shots at 25 yards benched. With a T/C it's typically one hole. This was my goal. I started with the 358156, 311, 429, and 446 Lyman designs. I tried them from PB to WDWW in hardness. Lubed them with LLA, homemade liquid lubes, and all the way to LBT Blue. Nothing would match the accuracy of the Hornady. I even tried a slew of different powders from BE to Unique with no luck. Drive any of these boolits fast and the accuracy was there. Just not slow. I guess I should restate my accuracy requirements here. I tested all of these boolits at 25 yards looking for that magic 1/2" group. Several of the attempts were sucessful. I would then take them out to 50 and 100 yards to see what they would do. Many even made this cut. For my final test I would take them out to 200 and 300 yards and look for stability. This is where they all failed. Usually 1 or 2 shots from a cylinder-full would be a wild flyer. Like 6-8 feet out. The rest would land relatively close to the POA. With the Hornady swaged boolit load, they were stable out to at least 400 yards which is the furthest I've shot them.

I finally broke down and just copied the Hornady boolit. Since I couldn't cast in the knurling that Hornady uses, I elected to put in a couple shallow bands. I basically went with a style that was similar to the 38 Himmelwright as I had just made that design. I had intended to only use a liquid lube, but set the groove depth so it would hold a little solid lube if I needed to go there.

Now that I had a mold ready, I only fussed with PB as an alloy as I was after the Hornady accuracy. With an ample supply of boolits I tested several liquid lubes. I personally don't like LLA and avoided it at first. I tried Rooster Jacket, White Lightning bicycle chain lube, and several homemade concoctions made from micro-wax. All shot good, just not perfect. I finally broke down and gave LLA a shot. I first tried a double thinned coat with motor mica. They shot about the same as the other lubes. I went with a single thinned coat with MM and this did it. I shot these side-by-side with the Hornady's and accuracy held at all ranges. Both of my buddy's guns shot them just as well if not better.

We regularily shoot this boolit at 300 to 350 yards at targets of oppurtunity, usually offhand. I'm using a red dot sight which helps alot for the 35-40 ft hold over. On a good day a five gallon bucket is not safe at 350 yards offhand. From the bench a 3-lb coffee can is in jeopardy. Granted, we don't hit on every shot, but misses are close. If they're not we know whose fault it is. Before anybody crys BS, this all has been witnessed, including several board members here. 357Max didn't believe it was possible til he seen it first hand, now he does it as well. You don't need a hard alloy and fast load to hit well at long range. Just the right boolit, load and want-to.

[Dutch4122]

They will be ready, yar almost there do not fret.I agree. You shot the best group with the 47 grn load @ 100 yards; the next best was 48 grns. On the next batch I'm thinking the load range should be 46.5 grns to 48.5 grns of RL-19. From what I saw all you need is a slight tweak............and I will second the "PLENTY OF VELOCITY" thing...my shoulder is still a bit tender. :oops:Exactly, too much of a good thing there! I should have grabbed that strap on wuss pad sooner I suppose. [smilie=l:Gee, do ya think so?!?!?!?!?!?[smilie=s: Any more power in them loads would feel like the time I caught the dodge truck mirror to the shoulder while working in a "closed" lane on the road.I'm thinkin' we pushed the envelope plenty far on Friday. Didn't like the looks of those primers with the two top end loads.:oops:


:hijack:

Like I said previously, a velocity in the neighborhood of the original Mosin Nagant cartridge will probably be the most accurate. The original round developed for the Mosins fired a 210 grn R/N Jacketed @ 2,050 fps. We were shooting a 210 grn boolit Friday; and I'm sure that with the higher end loads we were well above 2,050 fps. I'm betting that going back down to the best accuracy loads will yield about 2,100 - 2,200 fps when we break out the chronograph.

Just gotta cast up a big pile of these slugs so we can get back to work with this cartridge.

Either way, it sure was a lot of fun!:bigsmyl2:

[crabo]

Does the motor mica have any lubricating qualities or do you just use it to keep the boolits tack free? I know it is used to lubricate shotgun wads.

[BABore]

Does the motor mica have any lubricating qualities or do you just use it to keep the boolits tack free? I know it is used to lubricate shotgun wads.

Both 357Max and I have found that it does have an effect on accuracy. Without it, groups are more open. I've always used it to prevent the stickies and guess I never knew any better. Max informed me about the difference, so I just had to try it. Sure nuff, they shot much better with MM so it must do something right to the mule snot. I think we're both using the stuff from Ballistic Products. Midway carries it and gets it from them as well I believe.

[crabo]

Thanks, I just ordered a couple of cans so I will be ready to go when the mold gets here. I have a Star, but for some reason I hate to size and lube when I have a bunch to do. The idea of casting up a bunch and just tumble lubing sounds great to me.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have a Taurus 85 Ultra Lite 2" bbl in SS which I regularly shoot at 40 yds. The target is a 10" round metal plate on a chain. If hit it clangs pretty good and once I find the correct hold I am good for 4 out of 5 for most strings.

With my Smith 586 6" tubed revolver and 173 Gr SWC boolits in 357 Mag I have been able to get 6" groups on paper at 100 yds and consistent hits on the gong at 100 yds. When tried at 200 it really becomes a case of walking the rounds into the target by observing the dust clouds of missed shots on the ground.

It is a amazing how much those SWC descend over a piece of ground. I have yet been able to hit the 300 or 440 yd gongs at my range with a pistol

The Garand clangs them all day long but the pistols seldom hit anywhere near those far away targets.