123/125 gr loads for 7.62x39...in an ar

[mike in co]

i just finished building a 7.62x39 ar!
i have 123 /311 and 125/308 bullets and a bunch of brass.
i have tons of books and quickload, but what i do not have is prior experience with this round. what i would like, is to hear from those that have loaded jacketed bullets for this round in an sks or ak,,,,or in an ar even better. no cast boolits yet.
( i even bought a lee fcd....me mister no crimp in ar's)

thanks
mike

[milsurp mike]

My AK likes 25 gr.of IMR 4895 and 125 gr .310 J word Bullets.Mike

[Larry Gibson]

I've found that 22.5 gr of 4227 (H or IMR) with 123/125 gr .310/.312 J bullets in cases that use LR primers shoot very well in AKs/ SKSs, Mini14s and a few ARs that I've tried them in. Velocity equals milsurp and accuracy is as good as it will get with Hornady, Speer and Sierra bullets. With milsurp bullets it is what it is.

Larry Gibson

[daschnoz]

I usually load mine with around 24gr of Reloader 7. Generally, I use Speer 125gr TNT bullets.

You can try 15gr of 2400. Expect about 1600-1700fps. It will cycle an AK, but I don't know how well it will cycle an AR platform. This load also doesn't throw the brass into the next time zone.

[mike in co]

I've found that 22.5 gr of 4227 (H or IMR) with 123/125 gr .310/.312 J bullets in cases that use LR primers shoot very well in AKs/ SKSs, Mini14s and a few ARs that I've tried them in. Velocity equals milsurp and accuracy is as good as it will get with Hornady, Speer and Sierra bullets. With milsurp bullets it is what it is.

Larry Gibson

larry , and the rest of you...

i ran quickload(yes just a tool) to search for a 123/125 load doing 2350 fps.
so is 2350 fps the correct "factory" velocity ?

the one powder that showed up well was h4227.
it showed a 93% vol load at 24.4 giving 2350 fps with imr4227doing the same at 24.9.

what kind of velocity did you get at 22.5 ?

i think this is the powder i will go with as i have a jug of it.

any comments??
thanks
mike

[Larry Gibson]

Mike

I've chronographed quite a bit of milsurp in several AKs and they average between 2170 and 2250 fps. The same ammo does 2275 -2350 out of the longer SKS barrels. Always some exceptions but those are what the average milsurp will do. I use 23.5 gr of H4227 under 123 gr Hornady .310 bullets for 2350 fps out of my SKS and 20" Mini MX Mauser in RP cases with SR primers. Using cases with the LR primers (WLR and CCI #34s) gives the same velocity and accuracy with 22.5 gr H4227. In working up the loads I did go to 24 gr with the LR primers and hit 2490 fps out of the Mauser but think that is a pretty hot load. CIP PMAP for the 7.62x39 is pretty high but that load gave much more violent ejection in AK/SKSs that I backed off.

Hodgdon doesn't offer H4227 any more as it only sells the IMR 4227 now. I just got a couple lbs but have not tested it yet. If it's the newer IMR 4227 that you have I suggest backing off to 20 gr, assuming cases with LR primers, and work up until you equal the velocity of milsurp in your AK or until you hit 2250 fps and ejection is equivelent to milsurp. That's what I'm going to do with the newer IMR4227 (by Hodgdon) in my 7.62x39s.

Let us know what you find please.

Larry Gibson

[mike in co]

thanks larry.
i just unpack my 7.62x39 stuff.
i have lapua ammo and the box says 715 ms 2348 or so.
with 2044joules of energy..so it look like a 123/125 gr bullet..box is not marked
gonna go shoot so to sight in
later
mike in co

[StarMetal]

I feel an even better powder is the often overlooked 4198. Hodgon lists a max with a 125 grain bullet of IMR 4198 of 24 grains for 2250 fps. The H4198 even looks better with a max of 26.5 grains for
2378 fps. Remember those are max so start lower.

Hodgdon's only load for 4227 is 18.5 grains at 1995 fps.

You can see that 4198 fills the case better.

Ironically Hodgdon has lots of 4198 loads for the 6.5 Grendel which is a similar capacity case.

[mike in co]

thier load suxs....the 4227 18.5

cause h at 24.2 or so is less than 48 k and is 2350...

now having just shot some 12x loads at 2348 from a 7 lb gun...i may have to re think my load!

that puppy smacks ya!
need a muzzle brake( 5/8-24...chit)
slip on pad for extra length and comfort....the charging handle smacks my nose!

i have a bunch of rp small primer cases to work with.
wolf 223 primers/h4227/ various bullets in 122/125/130/135

mike in co

[StarMetal]

thier load suxs....the 4227 18.5

cause h at 24.2 or so is less than 48 k and is 2350...

now having just shot some 12x loads at 2348 from a 7 lb gun...i may have to re think my load!

that puppy smacks ya!
need a muzzle brake( 5/8-24...chit)
slip on pad for extra length and comfort....the charging handle smacks my nose!

i have a bunch of rp small primer cases to work with.
wolf 223 primers/h4227/ various bullets in 122/125/130/135

mike in co

They are on the low side of that 4227 load probably because that's a very fast powder....for safety. I can tell you that top load of H4198 isn't anything to sneeze at.

[Lloyd Smale]

1680 is the powder that was made for jacketed bullets in that round. Ive done a bunch of load testing in my ar and my ruger bolt and the best accuracy load for both guns uses 1680 and the hornady v max.

[mike in co]

yeah i got 1680 on my list, but not in my inventory...and then you want me shoot AMAX'S !!
this is a blasting gun.....maybe some tnt's if they will hold and feed.

mike in co

[StarMetal]

Mike,

As far as the AMAX bullet the thread was for shooting the 7.62x39 in AR15's, which to me means one heck of a more accurate rifle then the AK's and SKS's out there. I know my 7.62 AR15 is extremely accurate. Thus some want premier bullets and loads. In your case you 7.62 apparently is for blasting such as you stated.

Also don't forget some members have quality bolt rifles for this round too.

[mike in co]

Mike,

As far as the AMAX bullet the thread was for shooting the 7.62x39 in AR15's, which to me means one heck of a more accurate rifle then the AK's and SKS's out there. I know my 7.62 AR15 is extremely accurate. Thus some want premier bullets and loads. In your case you 7.62 apparently is for blasting such as you stated.

Also don't forget some members have quality bolt rifles for this round too.

yes i expect my 7.62x39 ar to be more accurate than my aks/sks's, but i dont know just how much money i want to spend on bullets.....cause its just a fun gun. well for now...who knows.

what kind of oal's are you guys using ? i'll measure what i got, i saw dome listed at about 50thou less than max.
do you guys crimp or rely on neck tension ?
getting its first post shooting cleaning.

i shot it yesterday with a red dot redfield, but my cataract shooting eye says that was a mistake till after it gets fixed. going to put a scope on it for load developement.



mike in co

[StarMetal]

Mike,

When I first went out to shoot my AR 15 7.62 and sight the scope in I had a cast load with the Lee 312 155. I have a 10 power scope on it. After I zeroed I shot a 3/8ths five shot group. Was I happy?? You had better believe. That's a good example of the difference between an AR and a AK/SKS.

[mike in co]

Mike,

When I first went out to shoot my AR 15 7.62 and sight the scope in I had a cast load with the Lee 312 155. I have a 10 power scope on it. After I zeroed I shot a 3/8ths five shot group. Was I happy?? You had better believe. That's a good example of the difference between an AR and a AK/SKS.

did it cycle with that load ?
i have to slug this thing but i think it is a 308, not a 310/311.

the only lite 30 i have is the 134 pb(311359 ?)

mike in co

[StarMetal]

did it cycle with that load ?
i have to slug this thing but i think it is a 308, not a 310/311.

the only lite 30 i have is the 134 pb(311359 ?)

mike in co

It was with all the 4895 I could stuff into the case so you better believe it cycled.

Mine slugs .3095

[mike in co]

301x308



mike in co

( yes i edit it...after rezeroing my calipers...duh.........)

[mike in co]

i have an rcbs and a lee 7.62x39 sizing dies. neither will size the necks small enough for 308 bullets.
i have some hornady 310/123 fmj's and will start with them. when seated to 2.170 AND crimped with the lee fcd..they do not move.

what the heck do i do now ??

i pulled the expander stems and the dies just dont size the case necks small enough for 308 dia bullets.

help

mike in co

[mike in co]

i did not chrono these.
shot
h4227
24.4 too hot, group opened. typical hot load marks on the face of the case.

24.0 shot well

23.6 shot well( i used this load for sight in also. for bulk fmj bullets...it was very good. )

23.2...first two, close amd third went 4 in right......not sure what happened there.

gonna reshoot the lower three in 5 shot groups.....did add a 3-12 scope for this.


now if i could just try some 308's


mike in co

[Lloyd Smale]

Mike my ar is very accurate too. It will shoot vmax well under an inch and bulk winchesters into an inch. the price of the vmaxs isnt that much higher then the winchesters if you buy in bulk. What i do for the most part is shoot vmaxs for accuracy because they are more accurate in that gun and my ruger bolt and if im going to just blast with the ar i use wolf ammo. That way i dont have to bother reloading or even picking up my brass when im done. By the way i bought 5 cases of wolf a while back and that lot no will shoot around an 1 1/2 at a 100 out of my ar so it aint none to shabby either. I fooled with cast in it a bit and it did decent but for the most part i keep the cast for the ruger.
yeah i got 1680 on my list, but not in my inventory...and then you want me shoot AMAX'S !!
this is a blasting gun.....maybe some tnt's if they will hold and feed.

mike in co

[mike in co]

what dies aree you guys using for 308 bullets ???


mike in co

[mike in co]

well the rcbs fl die got sent back to rcbs today. i see what part of the issue is.
the brass( both rp small primer, and lapua large primer) is thin at the neck only 10/11 thou.
most my 308/30'06 is 12-14 thou.....
die and brss work for 310 bullet with crimp, but no the 308's

mike in co

[mike in co]

Mike my ar is very accurate too. It will shoot vmax well under an inch and bulk winchesters into an inch. the price of the vmaxs isnt that much higher then the winchesters if you buy in bulk. What i do for the most part is shoot vmaxs for accuracy because they are more accurate in that gun and my ruger bolt and if im going to just blast with the ar i use wolf ammo. That way i dont have to bother reloading or even picking up my brass when im done. By the way i bought 5 cases of wolf a while back and that lot no will shoot around an 1 1/2 at a 100 out of my ar so it aint none to shabby either. I fooled with cast in it a bit and it did decent but for the most part i keep the cast for the ruger.

which ammo is the wolf ?

lacquerd finish or the new polymer

308 bullets or 310 ?

hp or fmj

they make case that looks parkerized....not the zinc....but i cant find any now....

thanks
mike

[Lloyd Smale]

the old black box wolf hps mike.

[20nickels]

I shoot 14.5gr of 2400 plugged with a Hornady 123gr fmj or sp rejects I bought last yr. This cycles the AK (not sks), shoots clean, leaves brass about 10ft away and no trimming between loadings. 15.2gr is max with this bullet BTW.

Soon to be using NOE's 314129 boolit with this load as soon as I find a crimp die that crimps in the cannalure... suggestions please.

Still playing with full power loadings. AA-1680 is doing well, but is very dirty at less than max.

Just curious, what is the twist rates in the AR's and bolt guns?

[Lloyd Smale]

my gun is a factory bushmaster flatop 16 inch gun. They started making them last year and my dealer got mine right from bushmaster. It was supposidly the 11 gun off the assembly line. It had to go back once for feeding issues and they reworked the feed ramp and its been pretty much flawless since then with good mags. Id have to say its my favorite AR.

[mike in co]

well i returned my rcbs 7.62x39 fl sizing die to rcbs, and today the replacement die showed up ( so no i was not crazy).
the new die will size the necks to a .300 id and i have a 305 expander which seems about right for the task.
sized one of the rp small primer cases, seated a speer tnt 125 to 2.190 and we have neck tension!

so when the world settles down i will get some of these loaded with h4227 and aa1680( i picked up a lb for 10 bucks at the last show)

thanks
mike in co