time for a new mold

[Caster Blaster]

Hey everyone, I've decided to get my first mould that isn't a Lee, I really like the reviews that BRP Products moulds have gotten, and I'm trying to decide between two; the 454-310 pb or the 460-325 GC (Hammer) I will be shooting one of these in my 460 XVR, 8-38 barrel. WW lead, the lube I use is 60/40 beeswax/vaseline. I like the idea of a plain base so I don't have to buy gas checks, but they will be traveling 1800 - 1900 fps, (the data I'm using is for a 325 gr. Cast Performance Bullet, it says theirs is pb; whats the difference between theirs and mine?) I'm really just using them for fun paper-punching [I]maybe[I] some hog hunting. I know the Hammer was a group buy, mostly for Lever-actions, what do you guys think? I'd really like to go with BRP, their quality looks top notch, but I'm open to serious suggestions.

[Caster Blaster]

trying to keep this one alive a little while, I don't have a ton of cash laying around, so $100 bucks on a mold is a good amount, any help/suggestions guys, there isn't too much info on casting for the 460 here.

[Buckshot]

...............BRP, NOE, both Vendor Sponsers here both produce fine products, and it's a great benefit that they're active on the board. Let me add Mihec to the list also, but he mainly does pistol boolits.

That 454-310 you mention is a pistol boolit design, as that 454 designates. I don't know what a "460 XVR, 8 - 38" barrel is. If it's a pistol (thinking that 8-38 means 8-3/8") I still don't know if it has pistol standard (.452" grooves) or rifle standard (.458" grooves). One of the moulds is a pistol mould and the other is a rifle mould.

Need a bit more info.

................Buckshot

[Caster Blaster]

Yes the 460 xvr refers to Smith and Wesson .460 Xtreme Velocity Revolver. based on the .500 s&w magnum frame. the 8-3/8" is barrel length, it is slugging at .453 I was told by BAbore that I might want the 460-325 GC because it can be sized down, even though yes, it is a rifle boolit. The only problem I have is that it is gas checked, I have one caliber that is gc already and don't like having to spend about $40 per 1000 rounds. I don't want to do that for 2 calibers if at all possible. I only have Lee moulds right now and want to try something of higher quality, but construction being the way it is in florida, I have to spend my money once and want a plain base boolit to keep costs down. I do realize I might be going too cheap, but right now thats just part of the challenge. So what I am really asking is whether or not anyone thinks I can get 1800-1900 fps out of a plain base boolit. If I can't pull it off, I'm stuck with a GC, if I can, even if that means a little more work on my part (heat treating) I'm willing to give it a try.

[Buckshot]

.............Here's something you can try on the cheap, and it works like gangbusters for me. But it's not a 460 XVR :-)

http://www.fototime.com/68E891AD4F08210/standard.jpg

Now I'm not wanting to take away any business from ANY of the board's Vendor Sponsers but it's something inexpensive you can experiment with first. On the right is the Lee 457-340F and it's a PB. I TL'd it and then sent it up through a .452" push through die. I use it in my 1st model Ruger Vaquero. Now I'm not attempting the velocities you're looking for, but at 900 fps (enough for me in the 45 Colt) it's very accurate.

You could start out with it and see how far it takes you before accuracy drops off or it begins leading. At that point back off the load maybe 5% and add a pasteboard cardwad, or one punched from coffee can lids, which is LDPE plastic under the boolit. Then begin working up again. The only guarentee of success would for sure be a GC. But for $18 and a bit of time you can investigate the fesability of a PB lead slug without too much cash outlay.

...............Buckshot

[Piedmont]

If I were going to attempt the speeds you want I would go with a gas check. There are ways to get checks cheaper than you mention. A member here, I think his handle is Blammer, orders in bulk from Gator Checks in West Monroe, LA. So you could order from Blammer or Gator and save yourself some money.

I own just one BRP mould but will be getting more.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

There also is a guy that goes by PatMarlin who has a CheckMaker to make your own quality gas checks . . . I haven't tried that fast in cast, but you might get away with it, would depend on alloy and loob though!

[smilie=s:

[Dennis Eugene]

Now don't quote me but I believe the 460 to be a very high pressure round,I may very well be wrong on this, but that being said when I deal with high pressure rounds, in my case mainly the 454 Casull I want/need a gas check. And yes they cost money but it's a fun ride not necessarily a free ride.Just my 2 cents worth. Dennis

[Caster Blaster]

Thanks guys, I've been looking into the FreeChexIII but they seem kinda hard to come by, I guess as soon as they hit ebay they get scoffed up. Like I said, I know I'm playing it cheap but thats part of my little challenge, Buckshot, I think I'll try that mold, I can always move up in quality later, I've had pretty good luck with lee so far, only one mold is giving me a hard time, but what is a "pasteboard cardwad" I get it that it's a wad, but is it one layer, or does it go over cotton or nylon filler? I have the same filler question for the coffee can lids, and how would you cut the disks so they are the right size, immediately I think of taking an empty cartridge, placing it upside-down over the wad material and a gentle whack from a rubber mallet, any other ideas? Yes Dennis, the 460 xvr is a high pressure round, about 65k max and that is pretty serious for the biggest and fastest boolits, I've seen 2000fps get broken with gas checks, and occasionally I will want to go that fast, but I can get some of Ranger Ricks T-Rex thumpers for that, this is mostly for paper punching and the rare 5-gallon bucket of water that needs instant emptying from a distance.

[Dennis Eugene]

lol instant emptying I like that. Dennis

[Buckshot]

Thanks guys, I've been looking into the FreeChexIII but they seem kinda hard to come by, I guess as soon as they hit ebay they get scoffed up.

As 123.DieselBenz suggested, get ahold of Pat Marlin here on this board. He makes a press mounted GC making tool. You can use aluminum or sheet copper (he also sells the copper sheet). He's also a Vendor Sponser here so you can reach him on that forum.

Like I said, I know I'm playing it cheap but thats part of my little challenge, Buckshot, I think I'll try that mold, I can always move up in quality later, I've had pretty good luck with lee so far, only one mold is giving me a hard time, but what is a "pasteboard cardwad"

We I suppose "Pasteboard Cardwad" is a bit redundant :-) A cardwad (generally made of a pasteboard type material) is merely something to help protect the base of a cast lead boolit when it sees the big light. You can also use gasket material. Very inexpensive cardwads can be punched out of shoeboxes, tablet backing, etc.

I get it that it's a wad, but is it one layer, or does it go over cotton or nylon filler?

It could but you don't HAVE to use a filler to use a cardwad. Before seating the slug you simply thumb one into the casemouth, and the boolit pushes it down as it enters the case. It is to remian up against the base of the boolit.

I have the same filler question for the coffee can lids, and how would you cut the disks so they are the right size, immediately I think of taking an empty cartridge, placing it upside-down over the wad material and a gentle whack from a rubber mallet, any other ideas?

It's been done that way. Hard on brass, and rather slow. Also the wad should be 3 - 5 thousandths OVER the groove diameter. When you thumb it into the casemouth it will 'cup' slightly, and the boolit pushes it down. At ignition there's a pretty good guarantee it's gonna expand with the case and flatten against the base of the boolit to help seal as it travels up the barrel behind the boolit.

You can buy precut cardwads from Buffalo Arms for $20/1000, and they also sell wad punches. However I also sell wad punches. Hammer type and drill press type and I do NOT charge $10 shipping :-) You can PM me for prices if interested.



..................Buckshot

[Wayne Smith]

And I, among many others here, can and willingly attest that Buckshot does very good work.

[Doby45]

I bet you the cake cutters that Buckshot made for me could be used as cardwad cutter. They are nice and sharp and excellent quality..

[Caster Blaster]

this is why I love this forum so much. Buckshot, I am trying the Lee 457-325 boolit mould (on sale this week) to see what I can come up with. I will still try a better mold at a later date, and I am researching PatMarlins stuff on this site. Thanks Guys, I will keep you posted.

[Caster Blaster]

Just got back from the range, trying out the first batch and keeping variables to a minimum, I used 38 gr. of W296. All lead was wheel weights, some water dropped some air cooled, some Lee alox only others lubed with 60/40 beeswax/vaseline with some Makers Mark carnuba thrown in. I fired 3 of every combination and found that A-C W-W with alox only, worked the best. they were the most consistent which for now was all i was going for. 2 of the WC ones flew apart. one with alox and one with 60/40, so obviously too brittle for that size charge with no gas check. I have seen data for that boolit weight going from 35 to 41grains so I settled on the middle, perhaps a lighter charge with WC WW would work, but for now AC WW will be the way I go. Next time I'll try some cardwads and move the charge weight around some. I had no lead in the barrel after any 1 shot, and none to scrub at the end. So for the moment, I am pretty happy, I know I can get the rough speeds I am looking for with a plain base boolit. I don't own a chrony, so right now I am going by feel comparison to Hornadys SST. It's not very scientific but due to financial constraints its all I have to go by for now. next time i'll try to get better data and some pics. but thanks for the advice guys, keep it comming.