A picture of my latest 41 Long Colt revolver.

[Harry O]

I bought one of the new Cimarron/Uberti Model P Jr revolvers in 41 Long Colt. It is built on the smaller frame (about 3/4 of the size of a standard Colt SAA frame) also used for .38 Specials, 32-20's, .32 Magnums, and .22LR's. I got to fire a few cylinder fulls last night, and it looks good. Everything is tight, the timing seems to be great, and it is as accurate as the two Uberti SAA 38-40's that I had converted to 41 Long Colt for CAS shooting.

The center cylinder pin is better than the larger guns. I had to replace both of them in the full sized guns with Belt Mountain pins to keep them from jumping the cross pin and tying up the gun. The newest gun has a center pin that looks and fits very much like a Belt Mountain. The front sight is also better. It is a lot wider than the full sized guns (the same width as a S&W K-38 front sight) so I can see it at arms length. Now all I need is a lighter mainspring. Can't find one for this gun in Brownell's or Wolff springs.

Anyway, a cute little gun.

[frankenfab]

Neato!! I'd own that for sure....

[No_1]

That is a sweet looking pistol!

[Wayne Smith]

Harry, how do you like the bird's head grip? I've got one in 44-40 and can barely hit the broad side of a barn with it. Same gun with plow handle grips and I'm accurate.

[Harry O]

Harry, how do you like the bird's head grip? I've got one in 44-40 and can barely hit the broad side of a barn with it. Same gun with plow handle grips and I'm accurate.

Haven't done much shooting with it yet, but I think it will work out OK. I will be doing more shooting with it on Sunday.

I have shot with the Ruger-type birdshead grips (on a small frame .32 Magnum that is similar in size to this one) and I did not like it at all. These feel better than that. I think the flat spot on top, that brings the back of the grip further back is better. I have not tried a full sized SAA with birdshead grips so can't comment directly on that, but the shape of the ones I have seen are similar in shape to the Ruger-type birdsheads, so I probably would not like them either.

[JeffinNZ]

Heel bullets Harry?

[Harry O]

Heel bullets Harry?

Right now, I am using hollow-base bullets for CAS. I have four different loads ready to go right now to see which one this gun likes best. One is with a heel base.

I have a CAS load that it freaky accurate in my converted Uberti SAA 38-40's. It is a modified Rapine 386185 bullet. The center base pin in the mould was shortened so that it casts a 218gr hollow-base bullet. I use the "handloader" 41LC cases (shorter than Starline cases at 1.005" to 0.010" long) and 10.0gr of Swiss 3F black powder. This load, for unexplained reasons, is every bit as accurate as the same guns were in 38-40, at least at CAS ranges. That is one of the loads I intend to try.

The other three loads are with full length Starline cases. One is with a regular Rapine 386185 hollow-base bullet (188gr) and 15.0gr of BP. Another is a 218gr Rapine bullet with 14.0gr of BP. The last one is an Old West heel-base bullet with 20.0gr of BP. Surely it will like one of them.

[Southern Son]

Sweet lookin little revolver. Something different, too.

[Changeling]

If you don't mind my asking, what does it weigh and how long is the barrel?

[Harry O]

If you don't mind my asking, what does it weigh and how long is the barrel?

It is all steel, so it is no lightweight. It weighs 26-1/2oz. The barrel is 3-1/2". It is the shortest I could get with an ejector.

[StrawHat]

Glad to see you found your new 41 Colt. Also glad it seems to be shooting good for you.

[cajun shooter]

Would it be easy to take some metal off each side of your mainspring. Give it an hour glass look so as to lighten the spring. A little at a time. I learned real quick in Machine Shop that you can take more off but you can't put any back. Maybe purchase another stock spring for those oops moments.

[montana_charlie]

Would it be easy to take some metal off each side of your mainspring. Give it an hour glass look so as to lighten the spring.
Is that a good idea?
I have never ground a spring to lighten it, but I think it should be modified over it's entire length.

If one area is thinned more than the rest, there will be more bending right there.
I would expect that to lead to breakage.

CM

[Bradley]

Could find any guns chambered in the 41 Colt on Cimarron's web site???

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon Harry
What are the the cylinder throats and barrel diameter on that nice little 41 ?
It sure would be great to know someone is getting it all correct.

[BarryinIN]

That is really neat.
I might have missed it, but I guess it's a six-shot cylinder and you didn't have to go to a five-shot?

[geargnasher]

That little gun looks like fun!

Something to look at for improving shootability is the trigger/cylinder bolt spring. IIRC that one is similar to the SAA flat spring and the stock ones from Uberti are junk. I've had trouble with several Cimmarron pistols peening the cylinder bolt due to being oversprung, and the trigger pull is way too stiff for my liking. Brownell's sells a couple of different wire spring replacements, as well as improved, lighter (or heavier) flat springs which will improve trigger pull and save the bolt/cylinder finish as well.

Gear

[Harry O]

Here is where the Cimarron 41LC is found:

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/Specialty/ModelP-Jr.htm#

At the bottom of the page there is a place to click on to get specifications. The window that comes up shows the ones in 41 Long Colt. That caliber is not available in the full sized SAA. Only the smaller P Model Jr.

I have slugged the barrel and it is 0.401", or 38-40 sized. That is perfect. The "throats" at the front of the cylinder are way oversized -- like all of the originals. The chambers are bored straight through. It is a six-shooter, not five.

When I first shot it, getting the cases out was a problem. The cylinders were a bit rough. The short ejector does not fully eject the cases. They would hang up at the end of the ejector stroke and I had to pry them out the rest of the way. I have since polished them out and shot it again. They eject cleanly now.

I have a Wolff mainspring and wire bolt/trigger return spring on my full sized Uberti SAA's. I have NOT found the P Model Jr. listed for anything in Wolff or anywhere else. I have not taken it apart yet, so I don't know if the springs are the same size even though the frame is smaller.

I haven't decided on the load to use yet, so I have not started working on the sights.

[.41LC]

A NEW gun produced in .41 Colt?? COOL! :drinks:

[Harry O]

Latest update. As posted before, I polished out the cylinders so the cartridges eject easily. Since then, I cut the forcing cone to 11 degrees. I also bought a set of springs from Wolff for the full sized Colt SAA clone. A lighter mainspring and a wire trigger return & bolt spring. I just got done replacing them. Both fit the reduced size frame in the P Model Jr without fitting.

I will try shooting it again later this week. Next on the list is seeing if I need to adjust the timing for rapid fire. Also, to see if I need to take it completely apart for an action job. I don't like doing that unless I have to. Only after all other work is done will I decide on how to file the sights to center it.

[.41LC]

The other three loads are with full length Starline cases. One is with a regular Rapine 386185 hollow-base bullet (188gr) and 15.0gr of BP.

I use Starline cases with a 184gr Rapine 386185 HB and get 19gr of BP. How much are you compressing the powder and where do you crimp? Mine are crimped in about the middle of the front driving band.

[Harry O]

I don't compress the BP at all. That does not work with GOEX, but works OK with Swiss. The problem I have is the soft lead I use for the bullet. I want the BP to fill the hollow-base, but not deform the soft lead. If you use the base of the bullet to compress the BP, it will deform. I have taken apart loaded cartridges to confirm that. If I use a conventional BP compressing die, it does not fill the hollow-base. Neither way is very good.

I suppose could have someone make a compressing die that matched the shape of the hollow-base, to solve both problems. Someday, I may do that. Until then, this works great for what I use it for. BTW, you are correct that 19gr to 20gr is what the original ones were loaded at. Of course, the Lyman 386178 has less lead in the case and more ahead of the case than the Rapine 386185 has. That makes it easier to get more BP into the case.

[.41LC]

How deformed do you mean? I just took a few apart and they look like this, compared to an unused one. The base of the bullet is pockmarked but I see no major deformation. I think I will try loading with less grains just to see what happens though.

http://i52.tinypic.com/rmjy9d.jpg

[Harry O]

Mine looked worse. I don't think that should be a problem. What worried me is that one side of the bullet was a little shorter than the other side. Evidently, mine did not compress evenly using the base of the bullet as a ram. Of course, that was before I got a "correct" top-punch. The one I was using was cobbled up from a larger top-punch and epoxy. It might work better now. With 15gr of BP, there is very little compression and very little (few) marks on the base of the bullet.

Also keep in mind that solid head cases (like Starline) will carry about 2gr less than the balloon-head (or folded-head) cases of the originals. That would mean 17gr to 18gr in a solid-head case to match the compression of the original powder in a balloon-head case. If you are getting 19gr to 20gr in a solid-head case, you are compressing it more than the original factory BP loads.

I had some of the old style cases back when I was experimenting. The primer pocket got loose very quickly. Also, I took some original BP cartridges apart. The BP was compressed. It had to be picked loose to get it to come out of the case.

[.41LC]

Are you using the Rapine with the smaller hollow and filling with 15gr? I just did an experiment where I drilled out the flash hole in a full length case, seated a bullet (large hollow @ 184gr) and got 15.9gr shoved in the case through the flash hole. Compression was extremely slight if at all.

I'm going to load up a some tonight with 18gr, 17gr and 16gr and head to the range tomorrow.

[Harry O]

I have a newer Rapine mould at 188gr an an older one that was modified to 218gr. I believe that the older one has a slightly smaller hollow-base. All the extra weight in the heavier bullet is placed inside the case, so I use less powder with it. I use 14.0gr of Swiss FFFg with the heavy bullet and 15.0gr with the lighter bullet. There is little (or no) compression. My experience has been that Swiss does not need much (or maybe no) compression. I crimp both types of bullet in front of the front driving band.

After your previous post, I cobbled up a brass compression device for the hollow-base Rapine. I have not fired any, yet, but I can compress 19.0gr into the standard Starline case with the lighter bullet. 20.0gr bulged the case. I will be trying out the 19.0gr load sometime this month. However, I have a lot of stuff going on right now.

[.41LC]

That's neat you made a compression die for a hollow base.

I tried the three loads I mentioned and 17gr of Goex FFFg gave the best group. I have over 400rnds of the 19gr stuff currently loaded so will have to go through that before I make more with my new load of 17gr.

I crimp mine in the middle of the front driving band. I tried crimping in front of it but found with smokeless the bullet was able to move too much for my liking.