Cleaning Win 94 after shooting Black Powder

[garandsrus]

Hi,

After shooting black powder in a Win 94, do you disassemble the rifle to clean it or have you found that you can get to all the fowling while it's still in one piece?

Any cleaning/lubing suggestions would be appreciated...

Thanks,
John

[McLintock]

If it's a rifle caliber one, i.e. 38-55, 30-30, you should only have to clean the barrel real good, with a good black powder cleaner, lube the action and put it up. I use a ballistol/water solution for the barrel, with pure ballistol for the final pass and an occasional brushing with a wire brush, and never have any problems. About 2-3 cleaning patches, 1-2 dryers and one with the pure ballistol on it; never get any blowback into the action.
With a pistol caliber one (I'm doing '92's and 73's), about the same thing for the barrel, but I use cotton tipped swabs, dipped in my ballistol mix, to clean out the action, then lube the action with ballistol. Tear them down about once a year and thoroughly clean the interior, but haven't found much to clean out really.
McLintock

[Doug S]

I'll add that you may want to make a bore guide to avoid wear at the crown, many an old Winchester has decent rifling except the last inch of the bore, I've seen some worn smooth. Another thing I do is put an empty case in the chamber while I'm cleaning out the real messy stuff. This keeps most if not all of the liquid cleaner out of the action/bolt and also the crud you push down the bore. After you have it fairly clean, remove the case so the chamber gets cleaned.. Sometimes I just wad up a couple of patches and stuff them in the chamber and close the action befor cleaning.

Doug

[garandsrus]

Thanks for the ideas guys, especially about using an empty case when cleaning. I hadn't thought of that! It sounds like the clean up is not nearly as extensive as I feared, so I might just have to load up some with the "holy black" and give it a try.

I do need to make a bore guide. Any suggestions? I have heard of folks using a drilled out (and probably cut off) brass case that fits the bore. Seems pretty cheap and simple if you find the right diameter case. A 30-30 case might work since it has a wide rim.

Thanks again,
John

[454PB]

I can't imagine anyone that is worried about muzzle wear enough to remove the bolt of a 94 for cleaning. I use a coated rod to clean my 94 and 92, and doubt that I've even done any damage. It would seem to me you cause more wear to the gun by removing the bolt for each cleaning than any wear to the muzzle/crown.

Bore guides for bolt action rifles are available at about any good gun/sporting goods store, and are less than $10. I have several, but I never use them.

[Doug S]

John,

An empty case that fits well works fine, make a few and that way if (when) you loose one you are good to go...mine get up and walk away some-how..LOL I have a stainless, one piece rod that came with a guide and it's pretty handy when I remember to take it to the range.

The clean up with BP shooting is not the hard part, making ammo that shoots well and does not quickly foul the bore is the hard part..

Doug

[Junior1942]

>I have several, but I never use them.

You gonna regret that one of these days. I use clipped off sections of plastic drinking straws for bore guides/protectors. Like Doug S said, I've also seen old Winchesters with shotgun-like rifling just below the crown.

[KCSO]

With B/P I like to use a pull through for the first few passes through the bore as this pulls the fouling out and doesn't push it back through the action. I also put an empty case in the rifle when cleaning black to keep any left over fouling from dropping in to the working area. I always use a bore guide on any rifle I clean from the front. I have re barrelled too many muzzleloaders and levers with worn muzzles. As little as 10 thou off center wear will open groups from 2" to 6" at 100 yards.

[NickSS]

I place my rifles upside down and use a pull through cleaning rig for all rifles that must be clened from the muzzle end. My Otis cleaning kit works like a champ and all fouling is pulled out the muzzle. With the rifle upside down any drips from the chamber falles on the news paper under my rifle holder and not into the action. I clean all winchester lever actions, M1 Garands and Savage 99 this same way and it works for me.

[West Creek]

These fellers are stirrin ya straight. Best to use ballistol for lube and cleaning when you intend to shoot black powder in a firearm. The ballistol will neutralize the corrosivenss of the black powder fowling quite effectively. I do not dissassemble my firearms after shooting black but I will give the innerds a good squirt of pure ballistol after cleaning the barrrel & cylinders. After a few sessions with ballistol the firearm will be seasoned with it.
If you intend to use black powder your gun should be dissassembled and thoroughly cleaned as well as removal of all petroleum based lubricants and then given a good dose of ballistol. Removal of the petrolium based lubricants will allow the ballistol to penetrate the pores of the steel and become seasoned.

[Old Ironsights]

3 Words: Bore Snake, Ballistol.

If you can open the breech, IMO there is no reason in the world to use a cleaning rod any more.

While I don't use ballistol on my Flintlock because I can disasemble it and soak the parts in hot water more easily, I think that I will use ballistol on my Rossi 1892 when I shoot my .357-25 loads.

[garandsrus]

Thanks for the additional replys... I have put a bore snake, Ballistol liquid and spray in my cart at Midway.

I have bore snakes in other calibers, but didn't have one in .375 yet. It does seem like it would be the easiest way to clean a non-bolt action firearm.

John

[Old Ironsights]

It's the easiest way to clean any gun with an (openabe) breech - period.

Note that if you have a long barrel (over 20") and you buy the .357 pistol version you may have to add a bit of paracord to it to come all the way through the bore. Order the .35-.375 rifle version if you can.

[DEVERS454]

Just use some 50:50 ballistol and water with a half dozen cleaning patches and it should be clean as before.

I go after my bore with Kroil afterwards and then a couple more patches... but thats me.

The action, well, I tend to use ballistol on that, let it soak. Then I hose it down with GunScrub or carb cleaner. Then lightly oil it with either CLP or Hoppes.

Then, I take off the mag tube plug and remove the follower and spring and run a few patches through the mag. All the way to the action. Usually, there is some crud at that end the tends to make followup shots a pain.

[KCSO]

My gosh! Snakes on a gun! We have the makings of a movie here.

[PatMarlin]

Ballistol is an amazing product. Cuts lead and power residues like gangbusters.. :drinks:

It is an excellent electronic contact anti corrosion presevative. Wood preservative, and rubber too. Awesome gun lube. It's bout all I use or need.

[StanDahl]

Ballistol works great for lots of things, but there is at least one bad thing that it has been found to do in at least one instance - fade the case color on vintage Colt SAA's. A few years back xxgrampa realized what a coating of Ballistol could do for the finish of various old guns. So impressed was he that he applied a generous coating to some of his SAA 99%ers. A few days later he found that the case color had faded considerably, costing him $1,000's in lost value. :shock: He was peeved, to say the least. Stan

[PatMarlin]

Hmmmm...

That's interesting as right now I have it on my Great Grandpappy's Colt 1882 DA38 lightening. It hasn't faded. How long did it take, and are we talking resent years?

[PatMarlin]

You freaked me out Stan so I went and pulled it out of the safe to check.

Looks as good as ever. I can't believe this pistol has as much case hardening and blue on it as it does. I don't think it's hardly been shot much either. Action is tight and crisp and so is the rifling cept for a couple of marks in the bore from moisture rust I beleive.

I think I'm going to make up some cartridges cut down from 38 specials for it. Never shot it.

[StanDahl]

It was 5 years ago. The guns involved were some Remington RB pistols, a couple of Colt 38 storekeepers, a bunch of 1st gen bisleys, and a dozen lightning rifles. Some were soaked in ballistol to loosen crud, cleaned, sloshed again w/ Ballistol, and stored in ziploc bags for 3 weeks. There were very clean, but the cc's had faded considerably - 15 - 25% in his estimation.

After a big discussion on the old Shooters BPCR board, a Ballistol rep. posted saying that it is not advised that Ballistol be used to soak guns, and if it is, a thorough, meticulous cleaning should follow. Just a light wipe is all that is advised. They had never heard any report like this one before. The bags may have had an effect...who knows. No one else reported any similar problems. However, you'd better send that Colt to me for chemical neutralization and stabilization. (I'm one of the few in North America with access to the secret Ballistol de-activator.) Stan