Not understanding my mould

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have two moulds. One is a Lee 358-158-RF and the other is a Lee TL358-148-WC
I am having problems with the TL358. When casting, I have used both moulds during the session. With the TL358, I get a difference in the diameter of the boolit. The botom of the boolit is .002 to .003 larger the the sprue end. The 158RF comes out even. Same mixture and same temperature. Also, during the reloading process, when I seat the boolit, the 148WC get downsized. The 158RF does not. I am wondering if this is because the TL has such narrow ridges on the boolit and the 158RF has wide bands? I am using Lee dies but I have removed the bottom carbide sizer from the FCD. It does not touch either round or casing. I shot 61 rounds of the TL358-148-WC using 3 gr. of WST yesterday and there was just a little bit of leading. I loaded the wide end of the boolit to the bottom of the casing. I just don't like the fact that the boolit is getting downsized by the casing.

[462]

Charlie Two Tracks,
This may not be the answer, but I've found that each of my moulds have their uniqueness. It's possible that the tumble-lube mould requires a higher operating temperature, or a higher temperature melt, than the other mould.

Case tension may be what is swaging down the narrow tumble-lube ridges, especially if the alloy is soft.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

The alloy is straigh wheel weights. Case tension can be the only thing that is doing this. Is this the nature of the TL moulds? The boolits are dropping at .359 to .360

[462]

Don't have any experience with tumble-lube moulds or boolits, but case tension seems a likely culprit, if the die isn't touching the boolit or case.

You aren't seating and crimping in one step, are you?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

No. I am not. Maybe TL moulds need a harder alloy.

[462]

I don't think your alloy is the blame. Something else is in play, here. Is the down-sized diameter too small for the gun's throats? What are the measurements of an as-dropped and pulled boolit?

[geargnasher]

Charlie, sometimes the Lee microband moulds have the big top and bottom band sized correctly, but the microband section in between is WAY undersized. Also, if the mould isn't hot enough, those microbands won't fill out.

Straight wheelweights is NO GOOD for microband moulds IME unless you run them so hot that the center gets undersized from shrinkage instead of poor initial fillout, in other words Lose-Lose situation. I would suggest adding a little tin to your ww next session, run just the TL mould, and run the mould as hot as you can by casting quickly and run the alloy as cool as you can to fatten up the microbands.

You will still probably need to push-through size them afterward.

Gear

[Charlie Two Tracks]

The boolits are measuring .360 on the bottom and .357 on the top. The top can vary. I don't think that I will be getting another TL boolit mould. I will try your suggestions Gear and see what happens.

[bigboredad]

my experience with tl molds is they need heat lots and lots of heat. They sounded like a good idea but I have traded all my tl mold for traditional lube molds and I'm much happier

[skimmerhead]

charlie have 2 .41mag. molds 1 tl 1 rg . lee says that tl molds need no sizeing, but when i tryed casting they were all over the place, i remelted the lead added 2% tin turned the heat up and casted the prettyest boolits ever. took quite a few samples no sizeing required. i did this with non tl molds got same results. now what i do if i want to ww bhn on 10# i add 1#lino as i have more lino than tin. the difference in the way my molds work is unreal. i don't have a camera yet but will soon, i'll post photos of before and after. my thinking is ww are different recipes from different suppliers. hope this helps if not i'll send you a# of lino to try.

skimmerhead

[oso]

Wouldn't hurt to check that the TL mold is closing evenly and completely by closing it and holding it up to the light to see if there is any gap at the seam.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Thanks for the info. skimmerhead. I do not have any lino. As a matter of fact, if I had to tell someone what lino is, I would be out of luck. Do you just buy the stuff or what? I appreciate your offer. It would be nice to make this mold work right. The mold closes perfect and drops great. I have tried all sorts of temps and with straight WW is just is not making the grade.

[theperfessor]

Lino is for linotype, an alloy used when casting the "line of type" that used to be made for printing newspapers and such in pre-computer/laser printer days. It was formulated to flow easily and fill small molds (the movable type characters) cleanly. After a press run it was remelted and often certain elements were periodically added back to make up for oxide losses.

It's not easy to get (as scrap) now days because of technological changes in the printing industry. There are probably similar materials available, check out Roto Metals at the top of the page.

There a several standard formulations for linotype and monotype and other alloys such as various babbits. The value of these is the high concentrations of tin, antimony, and other elements in them that can be diluted with pure lead or WWs to get different hardnesses for different purposes, or to get the material to fill a mold better at a lower temperature.

Maybe somebody can post a link to a lead alloy site. I know I've seen a link here before.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

This alloy stuff can get a little complicated. I am glad that I can just melt WW and shoot them. Now that I have learned that, I can start to learn more about what is in my pot and why it works or doesn't work. thanks.

[skimmerhead]

hi charlie! are you still haveing trouble with that .358 tl mold? sorry i haven't gotten back to you sooner but i didn't wright it down on paper and forgot about this thread. im still willing to help! if you don't have lino just add 2%tin on your next 10# batch. tl molds according to lee need no sizeing, so the tin will help with fill out. if you don't have any i'll send you enough to try a 10# batch. i'll say it the way the cajun's say it, may you no dare my's remamber he's no work's too good no mo's.

skimmerhead :lovebooli

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Thanks for the PM and this post skimmerhead. I have some pewter to try in the next batch of TL boolits. It will probably be a good month or more before I do any casting. It's a couple weeks till vacation and I have to get the bike ready. We are heading out to Bristol, TN for the race. It took me about four times of reading your last line before I figured it out. Between the Cajun accent and my hard hearing, it would be interesting for me to order some food down there.:kidding:

[skimmerhead]

i never knew i had an accent! if you need anything gave mysef's ah holla.

skimmerhead:arrow::lol:

[Cowboy T]

I have the TL430-240-SWC mould, a tumble-lube for the .44 Spl/Mag. Yes, you do need to run Lee moulds a little hot, and that's true of the TL versions. My casting temperature with Lee moulds is generally between 750 to 800 deg. F., depending on the mould, with both WW and 50/50 lead/Lino. If I cast at a cooler temperature, I don't get proper TL groove fill-out. But if I am at that temperature, the boolits turn out great.

This is also true with the 2-cavity TL356-124-2R, a tumble-lube for 9mm. With Lee moulds, being aluminum, a little hotter is better.

When you get back, can you bump up the temp. and see how that goes?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I have cast at 800 and it didn't make a difference. I got a mould from Mihec and the grooves for letting out air are clean and deep. I have tried to make the ones on my TL mould clearer but I cannot see half of them. I will try to use a scribe again and see if I can make my own grooves or deepen the ones that are there.

[DLCTEX]

Charlie my RD moulds are the only TL moulds I have and adding tin really helps. Using straight WW I get shrinkage on the small bands due to having to cast so hot. Adding tin lets me lower the temp some, reducing the shrinkage. I preheat the mould by dipping it in the melt until the lead doesn't stick, wipe it clean, and regulate the temp of the mould by speed of casting. Hotter mould-cooler alloy works best for me. I want to cast just below frosting if I can.