New Rossi 30-30 Marlin Clone

[corvette8n]

I see Rossi has a new Marlin 336 clone, I wonder how well it will shoot cast.
NRA site says it is button rifled w/ 1-12 twist
list for around $459.


http://www.rossiusa.com/news-detail.cfm?newsID=27

Are there no copyright laws covering guns?

[WyrTwister]

I see Rossi has a new Marlin 336 clone, I wonder how well it will shoot cast.
NRA site says it is button rifled w/ 1-12 twist
list for around $459.


http://www.rossiusa.com/news-detail.cfm?newsID=27

Are there no copyright laws covering guns?

Patten laws . And the pattens may have expired ?

God bless
Wyr

[Combat Diver]

I would say that they have. Look how many copies of the AR15, Peacemaker and 1911 there are.

[izzyjoe]

well for $459 it better be better quailty than than the last new marlin i've seen.:evil: may just be me but that sounds a tad high for a new levergun, but on the other hand if the quailty and craftsmanship is up to par it would be worth it. but i think that days gone bye. when people really cared about the product. but it's still out there you have to look for it ,and you'll pay for. it's called PRIDE!!!

[Throckmorton]

just me,but I"d buy an older Marlin before I'd spend that much on a Rossi. I do like my 45colt Rossi,but the internals are rough as a cob compared to a Marlin's.
Same with my Uberti pistols,nice looking on the out side,soft metal n the insides compared to my old Blackhawk.
their ad says "cross-bolt safety, lever actuated safety and the Taurus Security System®.
3 safeies? no thanks.

[jh45gun]

just me,but I"d buy an older Marlin before I'd spend that much on a Rossi. I do like my 45colt Rossi,but the internals are rough as a cob compared to a Marlin's.
Same with my Uberti pistols,nice looking on the out side,soft metal n the insides compared to my old Blackhawk.
their ad says "cross-bolt safety, lever actuated safety and the Taurus Security System®.
3 safeies? no thanks.

So tell me I have a Uberti too a Cattleman. Since these are supposed to be Colt Clones and since I would think the steel made now days is superior to that of 1873 and a few years later I would suspect they are harder than any first generation Colts??? If Not some one please correct me.

[Freebore]

So tell me I have a Uberti too a Cattleman. Since these are supposed to be Colt Clones and since I would think the steel made now days is superior to that of 1873 and a few years later I would suspect they are harder than any first generation Colts??? If Not some one please correct me.

Although I can't specifically prove it, I'm pretty sure that most Italian clones are made with some pretty soft steel. This doesen't mean that they don't work well or that I don't like them, it's just that they share some of the same weaknesses as the originals.

[jh45gun]

Although I can't specifically prove it, I'm pretty sure that most Italian clones are made with some pretty soft steel. This doesen't mean that they don't work well or that I don't like them, it's just that they share some of the same weaknesses as the originals.

Which was my point a lot of old colts are still shooters though some that have them do not some still do.

[WyrTwister]

Although I can't specifically prove it, I'm pretty sure that most Italian clones are made with some pretty soft steel. This doesen't mean that they don't work well or that I don't like them, it's just that they share some of the same weaknesses as the originals.



I do not know , but often parts are produced from " soft " steel to make them easier to forge / machine . Then heat treated .

Perhaps that is the step that was left out ?

God bless
Wyr

[excess650]

I was at a gunshow over the weekend and there were quite a few Marlins there, both new and old. I was surprised to see a new 1894 44 mag priced at $569, but just as surprised to find a pretty nice 1936, a really nice first year 336 and several oddball 336s for under $350 asking price. While I didn't see any of the CB series execept for a 45-70 (priced $550 or so) there were numerous pre-microgroove 336s to be had. Considering that most of these guns were unmolested, only a few showed a fair amount of honest wear, why even consider a Rossi?

[pmeisel]

Lotsa folks just want "new". And, you can usually find new faster than the right used.

But a good used gun is a better buy.

I am just curious if it's a good shooter. I like competition, keeps the prices down on the good used stuff too.

[Four Fingers of Death]

well for $459 it better be better quailty than than the last new marlin i've seen.:evil: may just be me but that sounds a tad high for a new levergun, but on the other hand if the quailty and craftsmanship is up to par it would be worth it. but i think that days gone bye. when people really cared about the product. but it's still out there you have to look for it ,and you'll pay for. it's called PRIDE!!!

Sad state of affairs to be sure, but if you think about it, we used to wander down to the Pa and Ma gun store or the barber's shop if your town was too small for a gun shop, pour over the shelves or catalogue and order in what we wanted and generally paid it off on lay by or similar. Nowadays we have huge gunshops, the small ones are going under, we shop on the net, compare prices and expect the best deal. Under these circumstannces, manafactures are forced to keep prices low to compete, which means cutting a few corners.

If a manafacturer puts a good solid effort into finishing a gun, he will probably spend a lot of money doing so and this will be reflected in the price. Trouble is, most folks will go for the other brand that isn't so well finished but is $30 cheaper. Now if the original manafacturer trimmed back on his quality control and extra fitting and finish, he could sell the gun cheaper. Sure he would have do a couple of warranty jobs on 1-2 guns out of every 100, but this would be way cheaper than finishing the lot.

So, it is really the shooter who is at fault, always driving the price down by insisting on the cheapest product and not wanting to pay for quality, but always expecting it. Sad, but true.

[yarro]

The Italians have gotten a lot better in the quality department. I have a pair for Italian made Great Western IIs in .357 mag that I bought 4 or 5 years ago. They are very nicely made guns with good fit and finish, which is probably due to being made on CNC. Since I mostly end up shooting just the one I can compare wear between the two. The one that gets shot maybe ~50 round BP, ~25 rds Goex Pinnacle, ~400 .357 jacketed 158, ~200 .39 special 125gr jacketed, 2k .38 special 158 cast. No appreciable wear. I took them apart after shooting the BP and that was the last time I shot them.

Most of the parts that break in the Italian guns aren't from being soft, it is from being overly hard and brittle, especially springs and extractors, but they have gotten better at that since they have computer controlled heat treating centers now which are very consistent. A lot of the replicas share the same design flaws since they copied old examples so they break exactly the same way. I know that the percussion guns are much better that before, but they still break in exactly the same ways as the originals do. The percussion have much softer parts than the catridge guns so they wear much faster. Most people don't shoot them enough to wear out hammers/triggers and such, but I know some folks who have shooting CAS. Rossi is a low cost gun maker there products are generally much lower priced than the other Italian makers and it is reflected in build quality. All Italian makers seem to make at least one gun that they just haven't been able to get completely right, usually one that no one else makes or a model variation that no one else makes.

-yarro

[cabezaverde]

$459 list could mean $350 retail.

[NickSS]

The old saying, "You Get What you pay for" is very true. Older Marlins and Winchesters are much better fit and finished than new ones. The reson? Reducing costs. The same is true all over the world. That is not saying that the new guns will not shoot as well or better than the old ones because they will due mostly to superior machinery making tighter tolerances possible in making rifle barrels (all you got to do is slug a lot of old guns and some new ones in the same caliber and you will see what I mean). It seams like today everyone wants a Roles Royce at the price of a Chevy. It just wont happen. A few people want quality and are willing to pay for it. Thats how good custom gun makers make their living.

[Multigunner]

Replica guns can be copies of antiques who's original pattents ran out long ago, or in the case of more modern guns I expect they'd be licensed copies.

The US Government had contracted for a number of companies to produce AR rifles, so its likely most if not all manufacturers of this type rifle have express permissions.

Much like International Harvestor manufacturing Garands, etc.

A earlier problem with the Italian copies of the Colt revolvers was that very worn originals were rereverse engineered.
This resulted in triggers copied from original triggers already nearly worn out or reshaped over the years.

My brother owns a Civil War battlefield fing Colt 1951, in suprizingly good condition.
Its mainspring is much stronger than that of any replica colt I've seen yet.

Colt began using controled carbon alloy for springs, and later used this alloy, trademarked as "Colt's Silver Spring Steel" to produce all major parts of the 1860 revolvers.
In the cartridge era Colt developed Nickel Steel alloys, not sure when these were first used for production.
Original Colt revolvers often have far better metalurgy than modern copies.

Some oddball Italian Colt copies are actually copies of European fakes that competed with the real Colt in the 1860's when US made colts were all being bought up for Civil war use.
Not the rare and excellent London Colts ,which were license built for Colt.