RELOADING .223 EN MASS (Video Tutorial)

[RaymondMillbrae]

Someone told me to take a look at the debacle this thread has become. I was hesitant (because I said I would not), but did so.

This is definitely not what I intended a new reloader to see when he opened this thread. (My heart went south).

The vids were always free. Everyone here watched them for free. No one has taken a cent out of their pocket.

If you want them in DVD format to watch on TV, and wish to contribute to a worthy website - then those are for sale. But the vids are free on YouTube. (I only purchased and burned 10 DVD's, just in case. I never expected to make money off of something that is posted on YouTube for free.).

There is massive information on this site, and super talented folks who know way more than I ever espoused to know. So maybe someone will step-up and help your fellow shooters out in your own way.

Thanks for helping me to learn how to cast sabot slugs. This is what initially brought me to this website. I still linger here every once in a while...but I am now more cautious.

Funny how my signature (my faith) became an issue. If a joke was accidentally placed here, then why was it not deleted? (Cuz I received it in PM...but without the "Ha" for reader response).

Oh...and don't get me started on the folks who passed the correspondence course on "mind reading" and knew ..."What I wanted". Ha ha ha

Do a search, as they are still available FOR FREE on YouTube.

Thanks, and sorry.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: JMorris, that is a super nice brass sorter! I bet you could use an old bench press for a quick frame in a pinch. ;)

[7of7]

I watched a couple of them... Looks good so far...
Always hated lubing... Going to have to give your method a try... you make it look easy..

[RaymondMillbrae]

removed

[mike in co]

ok ray , you asked for it...here it comes( we are such great friends after all)
2 of 13 is a waste of everyones time.

the shell sorter is a great product
the fourth part is a 380 plate that fits in any of the other three pcs.

your vid is mass loading of 223, so why start by wasting time with 45acp brass in the mix ???
stay on subject....no sorter for 223 en mass loading.

and since i use these for a living......do not stack them in use. simple place the yellow( largest gap/45gap/45acp and up brass) on a 5-7 gallon bucket, add aprox 2 handfuls of mixed brass, grap the top of the sorter/bucket and rotate off axsis, tilt the bucket and rotatea round a vertical ...much quicker and quieter than shake and bake...and you are not holding up the weight of the brass.
when the brass in this lot is done falling, pour the top in a 5gal buclet and the bottom in another...and start again.
you have to hand sort the results of each stage
in my opinion kinda silly to use this to sort such different brass as 223 and 45.......
dump number 2 from the series.....nothing to do with en mass reloading of 223

stick with the title.....
( if you are gonna sell something put it in the for sale forum..not here)

mike in co

[mike in co]

3 of 13

ok first things first...since this is a tutorial.....if should be filled with facts on the modern ways of reloading.
your comment on lubing pistol brass when sized in a carbide die fails twice. one: it has nothing to do with en mass 223 loading, two: it is a stupid waste of time and materials. the entire reason for carbide pistol dies is to get away from the lube process( lube on and lube off).

second the carbide rifle carbide dies are for the body of the brass, not the neck. you need to ensure the neck gets lubed, and i dont see that in your hands on process. imperial sizing wax is not cheap and in your process you use a lot( dont believe me, go watch br shooters size cases). get an inexpensive pump spray lube, 200-300 case in a 1 gal zip lock bag.. two to three pumps of spray.shake and toss for a min and dump and and do again till all are done.....cheaper quicker.( all the lube is on the case, not your hands...and the necks get done)

your one gallon zip lock bag holds about 5-600 pcs of 223........esp as low as the level was in the vid probably 500.

mike in co

[mike in co]

4/13 brass sizing prep.

no big issues with this setup.....
a couple of sugestions.
you can skip the floating sizer by using a lee universal deprime die in station one. ( taper the shaft of the pin...so it feeds in to the case mouth). put the sizer in sta 2 without the deprime rod.
in sta 4 put another sizer...a neck only setup...this will remove the burr form the outside of the brass after trim to length, and leave the lyman m die in sta 5 for inside deburr/expand.


some people will yell haresy...not loading in the five stages...i do close to the same, i prep brass and then load.


mike in co

[mike in co]

5/13 no issue with you actual brass prep in work .

i do have a question, at the rate you were going , is case length consistant ? have you measured a hundred or so when you have been going this fast ?

(i noticed you said no burr on the case neck , but i saw nothing that removed the outside neck burr......see step four set up)

mike in co

[mike in co]

6/13 tumbling prepped brass

first:
STAY ON SUBJECT...
why are you talking about pistol brass in a 223 en mass tuttorial ?? (if you did not lube the pistol brass to begin with you would not be taking the lube off..just go shoot the pistol ammo...more wated time and material).

second:.....if you are going to make statements that walnut is "better" than corn cob...furnish some facts.
they dont exisit.
every commercial reloader i know uses CORNCOB...not one uses walnut. some use a wet wash, but none use walnut.
if there was a better cheaper quicker way we would use it. we use corncob because it works.
get ground corncob as blasting media in 14/20 size and all is good.
if you are comparing bedding from a pet store as corn cob you are just wasting everyones time...typically way too big for the job.
use the right tool for the job....14/20 ground corn cob
third: get an inline timer for your vibrator. save the power bill, save the motor .....and when it stops, you know you can move on to the next step...not forgetting when you started it, or leaving it on forever.

mike in co

[mike in co]

7/13

get the second container/base from dillon and put it on top when cranking the seperator.
you won't have to do it outside, and you will not loose media( no loss in your case it was walnut media...lol)

mike in co

[mike in co]

8/13
krap i just posted a long section on cutting vs swaging......and the system dumped the post....i'll do it over but is 4 am and time for bed

[jcwit]

Glad I could be of help.

In Christ: Raymond


Thanks Ray, very informative and will help many new reloaders out. Maybe some of the old timers will pick something up also.
However I do use corn cob from Graingers Ind. Supply, in 20/40 grit with super results, buts thats no huge issue.

[Lloyd Smale]

for 223 tumbling i have to agree that walnut works better. Corn cob has a tendency to plug in a case with a small neck but then the pet store corncob is a bit corse like you said but its so much cheaper then what ive found thats fine that i just use corncob for pistol and walnut for rifle. I have a question though. Why would you want to lock your tool head down so it doesnt float and then float your dies? Seems like your defeating what the idea of locking down your tool head was. I also like controling the bullet with my fingers until it starts into the die to insure the bullet is started straight into the case. Also not to be picky but if my ars only shot 5 inch at 200 yards id be looking for a differnt load. You should be shooting groups at least half that size. Ive got a few differnt ars and all of them will do at least 3 inch at 200 with ball bullets and half that with a quality soft point. Mike i dont use dillon 223 dies but my understanding is the carbide .223 sizer isnt a carbide body die. Its the expander thats carbide and the convience in them is you dont have to lube the inside of the neck and the carbide expander comes through the neck much eaiser and allows smoother press operation with a progressive. Great job on the video though. It will save alot of guys a bunch of time figuring out a few of the time saving tips it took some of us years to learn.

[RaymondMillbrae]

removed

[jcwit]

Mike sure made a hit to this fairly new poster!

Thanks alot!!

[Lloyd Smale]

Ray i agree that comparing tumbling media is about like comparing what brand of underware is better. dont get upset because someone bashes your post. theres allways someone on these things that disagree with you. I get bashed all the time and just dont let it bother me. Mostly it comes from the fact that guys on here including myself have been at this for decades and have our little ways just as you have found yours. Some are willing to still learn and some arent. I watched all of your videos and found that alothough you do some things a bit differnt then i do there wasnt anything in any of them that i could really consider bad advice and alot that will help a new reloader starting with a progressive press. Dont run and hide because of one guys disagreement with you. If i did that i would have been gone over 10 years ago. Stick around and youll find theres a pretty good bunch of knowelgable guys here. Maybe a few not so personalbe or a couple including myself that have a bad day once in a while and put there foot in there mouth but were all human.

[jmorris]

EN MASS I prefer a little faster method to reloading I do the same prep with two size dies #1 & #5 on the 650 but a 1050 with the swage and add a bullet feeder you leave a 650 in the dust.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_1050.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=1050.flv)

The shell sorters are ok for sorting a little bit of brass but EN MASS I prefer a little faster method.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/sorter.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/th_sorterhopper.jpg (http://s121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/?action=view&current=sorterhopper.flv)

[xr650]

Dayum JM!
Now, that is a brass sorter.

[Doby45]

I think Mike did exactly what you were wanting. He critiqued your video as requested. I would assume that Mike does this stuff to a much larger/commercial level than those of us at home do and with that experience comes added knowledge. Instead of kicking the sand, taking your marbles and going home simply ingest what he has to say and move forward. I also would not parade to much under the heading of "simply trying to help a fellow shooter", if that was the case you would not be trying to "market" your video you plan to release and asking people to do name dropping if they happen to buy something you are using in your video. Seems very self serving to me.

[jcwit]

Well, that is a different opine.

[waksupi]

Ray, thanks for the links.
Be aware, if you ask for feed back on this board, you will get it, in spades. Not everyone will agree on all points. Otherwise, we would not be here since we would already know it all.
If we all liked the same thing, we would all be married to the same woman.

[Doby45]

I need about 14 lube grooves, can you fit those in a $4.95 flat rate box fer me? :)

[deerslayer]

Ray, the fact that you took your time to make and post these videos and the fact that they are free on youtube for the taking, says alot about you in my mind.

Thank you for the information I watched them and I learned alot.

The only critique I might add is they were a bit lengthy and I feel that several could have been a little shorter. But for someone who can't even spell reloading they would be perfect!

Nice work!!

[mike in co]

Lloyd,

the floating dies float "horizontally," and not vertically.

For the sizer, it does as I stated - ensures smooth insertion of the brass to the die. For the bullet seater, it ensures concentricity.

Check out this website. (CLICK HERE (http://www.whiddengunworks.net/toolhead.html)). John Whidden is a champion long range shooter (CLICK HERE (http://www.whiddengunworks.net/about.html)) who has worked all this down to a science.

When I first saw his products, I had to sit and meditate on the concept for a while. It didn't take me too long to know I was sold on his idea/products, and I took the plunge. It wasn;t a huge investment, but I immediately noticed a tightening in the COL between rounds.

As for your groups - shooting 3" inch groups at 200-yards with an AR15 is exceptional. You need to be competing with that rifle!!! AR15's are not GENERALLY known for their outstanding accuracy...and yours is definately accurate. ;)

I am shooting a 14.5" inch POF carbine, and I am sure it shoots better than I can. I will attach a picture of my 200-yard groups below. The pictures were taken the day after my 100-yard zero. The next day (Friday) I drove to the 200-yard range to see if it was shooting straight, and it was. I zeroed my scope at 200-yards. I was using a Meopta K-Dot scope on 4-power. (I guess I'm a lousy shot). :(

It worked good for the match I had the following day. (Saturday).

http://x98.xanga.com/eacf866a71c34267789964/o213610125.jpg




Mike,

as for the corn cob/walnut media debate...who cares?

I have my opinion (as stated), and others have theirs. So what? Drive-on, Hero.

As for the pistol brass that was mentioned...so what?

I just happen to shoot .45 and .223 all the time - so I thought someone may benefit from the information. If you ONLY shoot .223...then, "Duh"...only use one bin of the shell sorter. (Unless someone has an IQ level, two levels below plant life, and are struggling to figure it out).

It was very strange to set my camera in front of myself and spontaneously go for it. I was just showing yall what I was doing at the time, hoping others would benefit from it. The point was to help out my fellow shooters.

If it was so lousy, and it took you a ga-bazillon posts to trash it...then maybe you should take it upon yourself to make a "better" video. Not to bash me, but maybe TO HELP OUT OTHER SHOOTERS WHO MAY NEED IT. I posted this here to help shooters who are thinking about getting into reloading...and NOT to make a video on ONLY the .223 cartridge. (I'm not going for a home-made video award).

If it helps one person...cool.

I will not post here again. I have a nasty bitter taste in my mouth again.

This page is closed for me, and I will not respond to further emails/posts.

I hope the videos speak for themselves, and yall don't need my feedback.

Thanks, shooters...and enjoy.

In Christ: Raymond

first..
it was intended as constructive criticsim...for you to build on.
you list it as 223 en mass...but drift off line...go edit it to just the 223 stuff.
ohh and i anit done.

the idea is good, lots of the stuff is good....are you telling me you want to teach others, but refuse to learn yourself ?

mike in co

[mike in co]

for 223 tumbling i have to agree that walnut works better. Corn cob has a tendency to plug in a case with a small neck but then the pet store corncob is a bit corse like you said but its so much cheaper then what ive found thats fine that i just use corncob for pistol and walnut for rifle. I have a question though. Why would you want to lock your tool head down so it doesnt float and then float your dies? Seems like your defeating what the idea of locking down your tool head was. I also like controling the bullet with my fingers until it starts into the die to insure the bullet is started straight into the case. Also not to be picky but if my ars only shot 5 inch at 200 yards id be looking for a differnt load. You should be shooting groups at least half that size. Ive got a few differnt ars and all of them will do at least 3 inch at 200 with ball bullets and half that with a quality soft point. Mike i dont use dillon 223 dies but my understanding is the carbide .223 sizer isnt a carbide body die. Its the expander thats carbide and the convience in them is you dont have to lube the inside of the neck and the carbide expander comes through the neck much eaiser and allows smoother press operation with a progressive. Great job on the video though. It will save alot of guys a bunch of time figuring out a few of the time saving tips it took some of us years to learn.



same answer i give everyone...the internet is your friend.
grainger 14/20 ground corn cob blasting medis...25 bucks for 40 lbs
pet stores are for pets...it just aint right for gun stuff( as you have discovered)
you use the wrong tool and come up with the wrong answer....no suprise.
come over to the corn side lloyd........

[mike in co]

9/13.......
sorry way to much time to cover filling the case feeder.....if dillon says 50 % full...why do less ? it just doubles the time spent filling the case feeder?

30 second vid would do.

[mike in co]

10/13

bs...plain and simple.
i have no idea of how many years i have been shooting, and reloading for ar's....lots......thousand and thousands of rounds.

and not one of them has ever been crimped...NEVER.

IF THE SIZING OF THE NECK IS CORRECT, THE THE BULLET WILL HAVE ENOUGH HOLD TO NOT MOVE.

why would you take a bullet and destroy the dia with a crimp ?

now if you are loading blasting ammo, short range non target to simulate gi ball ammo...go right ahead....but to claim all 223 semi auto needs to be crimp is just plain WRONG.

IS THIS 55 FMJ WITH A CANALURE BULLET ???
SAY SO UP FRONT.......change the name of the series to 55fmj 5.56 blasting ammo...not 223.


no high power shooter that i know crimps his ar15 target ammo. dose not mean that someone dosen't. i believer sierra now makes a 77gr with a canalure....no one i know use it for target ammo.
(by the way the crimp is probably one of the reasons you don't shoot as small as most at 200 yds. )

[mike in co]

11/13

not sure about this.

great approach for TARGET ammo,
waste of time for blasting ammo........

ya need to define what you are doing.........

this is way over kill for gi ball type ammo.......


mike in co

[mike in co]

12/13

the truth hurts.......

mostly boring repative........


just one mans opinion


mike in co

[mike in co]

13/13

looks good......

nice to have failures you can show how it all works....


now...me thinks one of the reasons you have primers failing to seat...is the swager...
the case has too small of a swage cause the case head was shorter thinner and you could not push the nipple in any further without adjusting it.

just a posibility.

[mike in co]

raymond.....
ya did a good thing.....go make it better....few of us ever win the first time out.

stick to the title( change it to 5.56 en mass reloading...cause it aint target ammo loading. generically in the industry you will see 5.56 on mil style guns. chrome lined bores carry handle, iron sights and see 223 rem on target or varmit guns. match bbls, flat tops, no chrome linning.)
yes there are some arms dealers than have no clue.....

show me just how good it gets.....

mike in co
ps..one of the guys mentioned tumbling loaded rifle rounds. the issue raises its head with stick powder, where the coating that controlls the burn rate gets rubbed off and the powder now has a different burn rate. like you pointed out short term with ball powder is not normally an issue (rifle or pistol).

[jtownguy]

I will not post here again. I have a nasty bitter taste in my mouth again.

This page is closed for me, and I will not respond to further emails/posts.

I hope the videos speak for themselves, and yall don't need my feedback.

Thanks, shooters...and enjoy.

In Christ: Raymond

Your Christian attitude is showing....You will be missed..HA

[jtownguy]

Sorry guys...I meant to post this Private to him..and not on the group..

[Adam10mm]

Good things, bad things. I've seen this posted on at least a half dozen forums now. You're bound to run into someone with a strong opinion based on years and years of experience that will clash with your opinion. You asked for feedback, you didn't like it, you got sour. It happens. It's the Internet. Get off the floor and move on how you see fit.

[xr650]

I will not post here again. I have a nasty bitter taste in my mouth again.

This page is closed for me, and I will not respond to further emails/posts.

I hope the videos speak for themselves, and yall don't need my feedback.

Thanks, shooters...and enjoy.

In Christ: Raymond

Your Christian attitude is showing....You will be missed..HA

jtownguy: "Sorry guys...I meant to post this Private to him..and not on the group.."


No reason you shouldn't post it here. If you don't want to say something in public, maybe it shouldn't be said in private either.

[Adam10mm]

If it's private, then it shouldn't be public. Not everything posted on this server is public nor should be.