moderate load data for Lee slugs???

[JIMinPHX]

I'm thinking about getting one of those Lee 12 ga slug molds. I was wondering if anyone had any reduced recoil load data for them. Maybe something in the 900-1,100fps range?

Thanks,
Jim

[mac1911]

I used Alliant greendot powder load data for 1oz. I used the data for 1200fps with the componants I have. worked well for hole punching @ 50yards.

I liked green dot because I had it on hand and the wads and primers to match the load data.
Also I can increase the fps with the load data and still have low preasure compared to red dot,clays,claydot,promo ect ect. Also you dont need a lot of grains as some of the hunting load powders use.

my current alliant data load runs about 8600psi........check out the data @ alliant web site

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks, I'll take a look.

[GeneT]

The mould came with some load data down to around 1000 fps, IIRC. I've cast up about 50, but haven't loaded them yet - I'll be looking for the same sort of thing.

GsT

[JIMinPHX]

GeneT,
When you get a chance, I'd really appreciate it if you could post that data here so that I can take a look at it before I go out & buy a mold.

Thanks,
Jim

[GeneT]

Well, my recollection was incorrect...

The two lightest loads (1 oz slug)are:

Shell / Primer / Wad/Powder/Charge/Vel
Fed GM/209A/FED12S3/Universal/28.0gr/1450fps - edited, thanks VdoMemorie!
Rem Premier/209/WAA12SL/HS6/36.0gr./1450fps

Those chargers are listed as max though - I'm sure they could be backed off a bit - I'll try to find this post and post back with my results.

GsT

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings GeneT, the first load of Universal should be 28 grains instead of 38 grains, too Hot!
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[JIMinPHX]

Thanks for taking the time to post that. It's a little hot for what I want to do though. I was looking for something that the wife could shoot without rearranging her shoulder. She's a bit on the frail side.

In the past, I had been told that with shotguns, you load a recipe exactly as written & don't deviate at all. You are saying that these loads are listed as Max. Does that mean that there is some wiggle room on the powder charge that lets you go down a little? If so, how much?

Most of the recipes that I see so far are using components that I don't have, so I'm going to need to go out & buy just about everything if I decide to start doing this. I was sort of hoping to stumble onto a recipe that uses Unique, Winchester 209 primers, Winchester wads & AA hulls. I guess that may be asking a lot.

[JIMinPHX]

Greetings GeneT, the first load of Universal should be 28 grains instead of 38 grains, too Hot!
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

Good Catch.

Thank You.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jim
You can use Win. hulls, Win 209 primer, Win AA or Red wad. For a mild load you can start with 22 grains of Unique for your wife and raise it up 1/2 gr at a time to 28/29 grains for yourself to get 1400 fps. Nothing wrong with Unique powder as its the one powder that performs well with shotgun, pistol and rifle loads! If I had to choose just one powder for all three it would be Unique!

Be on the look out for the Primer Pressure signs
https://i.imgur.com/HG62nK3.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/LeeKeyinFed12S4and12S3wad.jpg
Put a 16 or 20 gauge nitro card below the slug to give it a firm base like in the picture and cut the extra petals off too.
Another good powder is Herco and Blue Dot.
Have a great day.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[JIMinPHX]

Are there other wads that I can use that don't need to be cut?

[GeneT]

I loaded up some 16gr. Clays loads, pink wads, Gold STS hulls, 1oz LEE slugs tonight - should end up being about 1000 fps. I'll test 'em tomorrow. They cycled through the shotgun alright...

GsT

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Good morning Jim, the other wad that you do not need to cut down is Fed. 12S0 you should put a 20 gauge nitro card of .125 inch thickness below the slug.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Fed12S0andLeeslug.jpg
This is how it fits the slug.
Hope it helps.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[JIMinPHX]

Why are the nitro cards needed? From reading the Lee literature, it sounded like the whole idea of the drive key was that it would dig into the wad a cause it to get a good grip so that if you fired the slug from a rifled barrel, then the spin would get to the slug. Also, where do you buy nitro cards?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jim the the nitro cards you can buy from BPI or Circlefly. I buy them from BPI Tel.# 888-273-5623
Jim load lets say 3 shells without nitro card and 3 with nitro card and see which ones work better in your gun and give better accuracy. The Lee slug is wraped around with the shot cup petals and will impart the spin from the rifling to the slug!
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[mac1911]

problem with backing down on powder charge is you will start to get inconsistant burns and velocities.

[mac1911]

call alliant for data Unique is a very broad based powder from 410-10g and then some.
Give thwm a call they will help.

so far best wads for me have been winchester pink

[jonblack]

problem with backing down on powder charge is you will start to get inconsistant burns and velocities.

My understanding is that you do not deviate from the manuals when working with shotshell reloading.

jonblack

[mac1911]

jonblack....yes correct you should NOT deviate from published data. Call alliant for more info on your powder and componants

[Storydude]

I have good luck with the 1Oz Lee slugs over a Pink Claybuster wad, with 25G of unique.

Nice solid load that won;t rip your shoulder off.

[GeneT]

16gr. of Clays, Pink Claybusters wad, Remington STS Premier hull, 209 primer. 1050fps and very modest recoil. Accuracy was good and they fed and cycled in my Bennelli. This is now my default load unless I feel like experimenting more later. I'll probably try the 7/8oz. slug.

GsT

[Beagler]

I just use a rem. gunclub hull, win primer, waa12 or claybuster equilv. and blue dot powder (can;t remember how many grains off top of head). Puts the hurt on bambi out of my moss.500. Also been playin around with the lyman (monster pellet) sabot slug.

[JIMinPHX]

What is the Lyman monster pellet & where do you get sabots for it?

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Jim
In 12 gauge the Lyman sabot slug is known as Lyman 525 sabot ( slug in wad )
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman525inwads.jpg
its a much better slug accuracy wise but cost more for the mold!
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman31grWSF-Fed12S4Wad.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/44grBlueDotLyman525.jpg
Hope it helps.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[JIMinPHX]

Is there low end loading data for the monster pellet that would put it in the 900-1100fps range?

What is the advantage to roll crimping compared to a traditional folded crimp?

[GeneT]

Hello Jim
In 12 gauge the Lyman sabot slug is known as Lyman 525 sabot ( slug in wad )
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman525inwads.jpg
its a much better slug accuracy wise but cost more for the mold!
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/Lyman31grWSF-Fed12S4Wad.jpg
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/Dantebeowulf/44grBlueDotLyman525.jpg
Hope it helps.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

Sexy - I might have to try those out. Looks like Midway has the molds.

GsT

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, if you were to use a nitro card below the slug then remember some wads require 16 gauge and while others need 20 gauge so it makes sence to order both 16 and 20 gauge nitro cards.
Have a great day.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[mac1911]

one advantage to roll crimp....you can tell its a slug! I would like to see some acuracy test with someone who has both crimped and rolled.....also smooth or rifled bore.

I for what ever reason just do not think the spin picked up by the wad would really transfer well to the slug. Whats to keep the wad from just spinning around slug? just a thought

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Hello Mac 1911 the slug in wad is such a tight fit that in order for it to travel through the barrel it will impart the spin, no question about it. If you use a rifled choke tube of lets say 2 to 4 inches then and then only it just might skid through the short rifling with out grabbing the rifling!
I lately only use Fiocchi clear hulls and always can see through the load.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[JIMinPHX]

Is there a combination of hull, wad & primer that can be used to give a low end load with both the Lee slug & the monster pellet? If I could find a mix that uses the same components, then I could start with a Lee mold & maybe move up to a Lyman later without too much added expense.

My reloading area is pretty close to full right now. I don't have room to add a lot of extra new stuff. I'm trying to keep the shotgun stuff to a minimum.

[Cactus]

When I started with the Lee 1oz mold last year I followed the Data card that came with the mold. Max was 36 grains of HS6. For a reduced plinking load out of my smoothbores I reduced that by a little over 10 percent to 32 grains with a home made nitro card (cracker box) to keep the slug off the wad.

The load was a pleasure to shoot with light recoil and acurate out to 25 yards which was my test range at the time. I could shoot those all day and I did LOL.

I have since upped the load to 33 grains and it is just as good.

I use Win AA or Universal Hulls, the Universals are the bulk bargan hulls and good for a couple reloads at best. The AAs are much better. My wads are WAA12F114s and CCI 209 primers.

Cactus

[JIMinPHX]

I reduced that by a little over 10 percent to 32 grains with a home made nitro card (cracker box) to keep the slug off the wad.


I'm new to shotgun reloading. What is the advantage of keeping the slug off the wad?

[JIMinPHX]

Well, I went & did it. I walked into Cabella's the other day & bought myself one of the Lee slug molds. I guess that means that I'm committed to the project now. :cool:

Unfortunately, the only Lee Load All II presses that they had in stock were 20 Ga. I guess that I'll have to start scrounging around to see if someone has a used one that they want to sell. Actually, I'd really rather get a 12 Ga. Lee Loader, but it doesn't look like they still make them anymore & the prices that I've sen on them at the guns shows was often more than a Load All would cost new. If worse comes to worse, I guess that I can always order a Load All from Midway. They seem to have plenty in stock.

Thanks for all the advice guys.:drinks:

[JIMinPHX]

Wow,
I just looked up the data that came with the mold. It's pretty hot.

[mac1911]

I have been loading lee 1oz 12gauge slugs with green dot with the alliant specs for 1oz and the recomended componants for my hull. Im loading @ 1200fps and getting mixed results. @ 25 yards I seem to be alover the paper, @ 50yards Im getting about 4"groups. Im guessing the slug is not stabalizing @ these slower speeds. Recoil vis very nice though.

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings, I see your point but at 1200 fps the slug should stabalize from a rifled barrel which will impart the required spin, the only way it will not stabalize is if you fire it through a smooth bore and so no spin imparted. Another problem is the slug is just as fat as it is long. A bumble bee!
If you could have the mold modefied to be able to cast the slug lets say .100 longer then it should help a bit. The lee slug is good for short range hunting up to 30 to 60 yards! Lets not forget most deer are shot with-in 50 yards and if you want a better slug for longer range to 100 yards then a Lyman 525 will do the job!
Try different wads and put a nitro card just below the slug in wad will help too a bit.
Best of luch.
Ajay
www.PreciousVideoMemories.com

[lead-1]

I have been loading my LEE slugs with a Load-All press that I picked up at a second hand store for 5 bucks, it wasn't complete but had all I needed. This way I don't have to swap my MEC around from trap loads to slugs.

I have used this recipe with pretty good luck thru a smooth bore Mossberg 500.

LEE 1 oz slug
Federal 2 3/4" hull, one of the dark red cheapo hulls that most people throw away
18.5 grains of Red Dot
Winchester 209 primer
Winchester WAA12SL Pink wad and leave the fingers on
.130-.135 cardboard spacer between the wad and slug

These round aren't abusive but you still know it's a shotgun and they have been grouping at about 2" on center at 30-35 yards. Plenty good to be fun to shoot.

[mac1911]

Im shooting out of a smooth bore.

[JIMinPHX]

Well, after learning a few things about trying to load 12Ga. shells with a Lee Loader & making up some improved loader components of my own, I finally managed to get some shells cobbled together & tested.

Since I could only find heavy duty load data for Unique, I shelved the idea of using that powder & bought a pound of Green Dot to put in these 1oz Lee Slug shells instead. I ended up using Alliant's minimum published load data for AA hulls & 1 oz of shot with a Win primer. 18.5 grains of Green Dot loaded in some cheap Winchester hulls with WAA12sl (pink) wads gave me right around 1,000fps out of an 18-1/2" cylinder choke smooth bore with front bead sight only. The published data said to expect 1145fps with AA hulls, but I don't know what barrel length or choke that was with. Velocity spread was about +/-25fps, which I thought was pretty good considering that there was some variation in the quality of my crimps. Accuracy was minute of pie plate @ both 20 & 40 yards.

I may go back & try to tune up the accuracy a little better some day, but for now, this looks like the cheap training load that I was after. It's pretty soft on the shoulder, even out of a lite gun. The slug went through 2 2x6's & buried itself flush in the third. Even at this reduced power level, it's still not something that I would want to stand in front of.

[dogbert41]

I'm thinking about getting one of those Lee 12 ga slug molds. I was wondering if anyone had any reduced recoil load data for them. Maybe something in the 900-1,100fps range?

Thanks,
Jim

I've found that Win AA hulls, Win 12sl pink wads, and 22 grains Unique make for incredibley soft shooting lee 1 oz slug loads. I don't have a chronograph, but I would suspect that they are a bit over 1000 f/s.

[JIMinPHX]

I've been fooling around with these things a little more & after making some adjustments to my Lee Loader style tool, I am now getting pretty good looking folded crimps using the Winchester Universal hulls & pink wads. You can see a picture of them here - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=958613#post958613


I've also been fooling around with roll crimping a little. I'd prefer to use roll crimps because it makes it easy to identify the slug loads. Unfortunately, my roll crimps still need a little work. You can see them here -
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=959028#post959028

In the process of trying to make better roll crimps, I've been cutting down my hulls & my wads. In order to do a good consistent job of that, I made up some little aluminum plugs to use as cutting guides. The pictures are below. They seem to work pretty well.

[JIMinPHX]

After all that fooling around with roll crimps because the fold crimps would not stay closed for me, I now find out that if I change from pink wads to white wads, the fold crimps work fine. I still trimmed the white wads the same as I did with the pink ones.

[jmort]

There is a place for both roll/fold crimps. I like the plug gauge idea.

[selmerfan]

Does anyone have any success loading down 20 gauge slugs in a similar manner? I've got Red Dot, Blue Dot, 700x, Unique, HS6, 4227, 2400, Clays, and probably some other shotgun powders downstairs. Looking at trying the Lyman monster pellet with white Winchester AA wads in AA hulls as well as the Cheddite hulls and slugsrus sabots with 250 gr .44 caliber boolit, 310 gr. total projectile weight. Firing in an 11-87