.44mag accuracy

[Forester]

All the threads here about accuracy in a revolver have me wondering. group sizes are quoted without reference to off hand or rested, iron sights, dot, or scope, barrel length etc.

So for those that can I would be curious and it might give a good reference to others:

With a 4" 44mag with open sights what groups can you shoot OFF HAND?

Lets say 25 and 50 yards if you know both.

If you care to share load data that's always good.


I never really shoot groups so I have a hard time starting this one. I know I can ring an 8" steel plate 6 for 6 all day at 50 yards and 4 or 5 out of 6 at 70.

I will shoot some groups this weekend though to see how I measure up.

[Blammer]

With a 4" 44mag with open sights what groups can you shoot OFF HAND?


If I had a 4" 44mag with open sights I suspect I could hit a pie plate at 7 feet 4 out of 6 times off hand.

[Forester]

If I had a 4" 44mag with open sights I suspect I could hit a pie plate at 7 feet 4 out of 6 times off hand.

Well we have a starting point :)

[44man]

Accuracy from shooting positions is different. Hardly none of us are good off hand. Find accuracy first from a rest, then practice off hand.
Any position that you can hold the gun still for working loads always comes first.

[Forester]

Accuracy from shooting positions is different. Hardly none of us are good off hand. Find accuracy first from a rest, then practice off hand.
Any position that you can hold the gun still for working loads always comes first.

Obviously different shooting positions create a different accuracy expectation.

that's why I specified off hand. Personally I could care less how well I can shoot my handguns from a rest because I don't use them that way in the real world. I use a rest for load development and then get rid of it.

Conversely, i never really shoot my rifles off hand much because the way I use them is virtually always rested or with some significant support.

So the question remains, your gun, your load off hand?

[Bass Ackward]

This is a complicated question because it depends on the power level and shooting technique for the loads. That is velocity and bullet weight. And not allot of paper work with the 4", 44Mag either as is not my choice for an off hand paper gun. Pop can roller, but not much paper. So I am going from memory and to assume 240 / 250 class, off hand, with opens.

1200 + fps cast 3" @ 25, 8ish" @ 50

1000 - fps cast up to level with each shot: 2ish" @ 25, 5"- 10" @ 50
1000 - fps cast down to up with each shot: 3" - 4" @ 25, 7"- 12" @ 50

The 1000 minus fps loads are both the same load, but powder position sensitivity coming up out of a holster is a PIA and for level work with accuracy loss mostly from the 5th and 6th shots as recoil moves the powder out and memory fails to hold it up and shake it back down. Ties you to too few of powder choices for my taste. Most of my non target shooting is coming up out out of the holster anyway. This is the reason that I went to the 44 Special for Special velocity level loads. Amazing what that little bit less case capacity does for powder options.

Now if I got a 44 Mag, it has a 6" tube or longer and is loaded to full case (magnum) levels. Longer barrel and sight radius and more gun weight make a HUGE difference for me.

[Forester]

This is a complicated question because it depends on the power level and shooting technique for the loads. That is velocity and bullet weight. And not allot of paper work with the 4", 44Mag either as is not my choice for an off hand paper gun. Pop can roller, but not much paper. So I am going from memory and to assume 240 / 250 class, off hand, with opens.

1200 + fps cast 3" @ 25, 8ish" @ 50

1000 - fps cast up to level with each shot: 2ish" @ 25, 5"- 10" @ 50
1000 - fps cast down to up with each shot: 3" - 4" @ 25, 7"- 12" @ 50

The 1000 minus fps loads are both the same load, but powder position sensitivity coming up out of a holster is a PIA and for level work with accuracy loss mostly from the 5th and 6th shots as recoil moves the powder out and memory fails to hold it up and shake it back down. Ties you to too few of powder choices for my taste. Most of my non target shooting is coming up out out of the holster anyway. This is the reason that I went to the 44 Special for Special velocity level loads. Amazing what that little bit less case capacity does for powder options.

Now if I got a 44 Mag, it has a 6" tube or longer and is loaded to full case (magnum) levels. Longer barrel and sight radius and more gun weight make a HUGE difference for me.

Thanks, that is a great answer.

FWIW my load is 10.4gr of Unique. Federal gold metal match mag primer, Lyman 429421 cast from WW alloy. Runs about 1090fps 15ft in front of the muzzle.

[sixshot]

I know that 6 for 6 all day at 50 yds on an 8" plate is fantastic, not many can do that, especially with some of the more powerful guns, doing it with a 4" barrel is even more impressive.

Dick

[Forester]

I know that 6 for 6 all day at 50 yds on an 8" plate is fantastic, not many can do that, especially with some of the more powerful guns, doing it with a 4" barrel is even more impressive.

Dick

See I have no comparison point. I have sent maybe 120,000 .45ACP rounds through a few 1911s and with my custom I can ring that 8" plate at just over 1 second splits until the mag runs dry. I do consider myself a good shot with a 1911 though I know several who are better.

A friend came over recently who owns a few guns but shoots very rarely. There is nothing like getting twice the hits at twice the range to get someone to take a little friendly advice.

With a revolver though I don't care about the speed as much as what can I really do and at what range. I like the 4" because it is so handy to carry in the woods but I want the best performance I can get out of it.

[44man]

Obviously different shooting positions create a different accuracy expectation.

that's why I specified off hand. Personally I could care less how well I can shoot my handguns from a rest because I don't use them that way in the real world. I use a rest for load development and then get rid of it.

Conversely, i never really shoot my rifles off hand much because the way I use them is virtually always rested or with some significant support.

So the question remains, your gun, your load off hand?
I see your point and it is correct. Once a load works, shoot off hand.
Whitworth and I after having enough practice can hold about 6" at 100 yards with a .475 and hit a beer can now and then, off hand.
I have watched him shoot those little water bottles at 86 yards off hand with open sights using his .44 S&W, time and again. He shoots better then I do. He can still see, I can't.
Accuracy first, then practice.
I only shoot better then Whitworth from sand bags.
But we kill deer a little past 100 yards off hand.

[44man]

If your gun is accurate, barrel length is not much of a problem, it is how good you can see sights.
The only problem with short barrels is the sight clicks move POI a lot more per click.

[bigboredad]

44man
you will probably shoot better if you could get some of the custom shooting shoes that Dick wears:kidding:

[44man]

44man
you will probably shoot better if you could get some of the custom shooting shoes that Dick wears:kidding:
I remember those! It was indeed so funny I almost fell off my seat. :mrgreen:

[Frank]

44man said
I remember those! It was indeed so funny I almost fell off my seat.
I'm sure sixshot is like me and could care less. :mrgreen:

[bigboredad]

hey I've been looking for some of those if I could shoot half as good as Dick or you I would gladly let you laugh at me. If I lived a little closer maybe I could hang out with you and Whitworth and run around getting your beers in my crocs uh I mean shooting shoes then might be able to have the best of both worlds:drinks:

[44man]

The only thing that would make this site perfect is if we all lived next door. I feel so lucky to have a few that do, best friends forever.
Then Bioman makes his own beer like I do. Just how great is that? We now work together and swap recipes and equipment.
I just kegged a wheat beer with the zest of an orange, corriander and blueberry flavor. Be a few weeks, I can't wait.
Many of us argue and even have posts shut down, but WHY?
It is the long distance junk!

[curiousgeorge]

With 4 5/8" RSB / 8.0 grs Unique / 429421 / 25 yds offhand - 2 1/2 - 3 inches on an average to good day - depending on light conditiions, temperature etc.

With 7 1/2" RSB / 24.0 grs H110 / 240 gr Hornady XTP / 75 yds offhand, but standing with my back against a tree ( simulating standing on a ladder stand ) - usually 5 out of 6 on 9 " white paper plate, sometimes 4, sometimes all 6, but usually only 5.

I have a bullet trap in my back yard that I can shoot 25 yds, pistol or .22 rifle, from a bench with sandbags and have tested both of these loads. They are consistently 1 1/2" groups ON A GOOD DAY and who knows what on a bad day. I have been shooting the same 2 loads out of the same 2 .44's for approx 15 years and have taken three shots with the heavy load at deer and killed all three, the longest shot being approx 54 steps.

My accuracy may not equal other shooters, but it is about my limit with a heavy loaded .44 magnum. I cannot remember ever taking a shot at game with the shorter barrel gun, but have sent many tin cans, targets, and rocks to see their makers.

Steve

[bigboredad]

that sounds like a very tasty beverage. Due to the multiple sclerosis my wife doesn't let me have too much beer anymore but that sure sounds tasty. and I think we could have a lot of fun hanging out as does Whitmore

[peter nap]

If I had a 4" 44mag with open sights I suspect I could hit a pie plate at 7 feet 4 out of 6 times off hand.

Thank the Lord!
Someone shoots offhand the way I do:p

[gon2shoot]

2 inches at 25 yards is fairly common, but have to spread out the time or my eyes start to blur. Thats with a 7 1/2 bbl.

I have lots of one hole groups at 100yds. shoot six rds. and find one hole in the target (thats a one hole group aint it?) :wink:

[2 dogs]

C'mon Dick! With a good shootin' Smith 44 a 8 inch plate aint no hill for a stepper at 50 yards. Very doable off hand.

[BigboreShooter]

All my serious hunting revolvers have 6'' or longer barrels. I shoot a lot, 7000-9000rds a year.
At 50yds two hands standing I can average 5'' with iron sights.Surprizingly, my groups with scoped revolvers is not much better. Sitting with my back against something solid, I can hold 4 inch average with iron sights. Three inch scoped.
Somedays are better than others, them are the groups I shoot for.

BigboreShooter

[Bass Ackward]

FWIW my load is 10.4gr of Unique. Federal gold metal match mag primer, Lyman 429421 cast from WW alloy. Runs about 1090fps 15ft in front of the muzzle.


To show you how different situations can be for people. That is in a zone where you won't have any accuracy issues.

But I work around the place. I can't wear hearing protection all day cause of the danger for what I am doing sometimes. When I need (WANT) to shoot I do put them in, but for targets of opportunity that is not always timely. And there are a few untimely opportunities every week like yotes.

Your load would be a barrier breaker around here, especially with that meplat in humid air. I am willing to sacrifice some hearing loss for this use. Might as well shoot full power loads for the sound level and that is just too painful for me without hearing protection.

Stay around 800-900 fps with a bigger bore and it isn't much loader than the tractor or a shotgun really so you don't mind an unprotected shot now and then.

[AzShooter]

Some of you guys should be shooting Action Pistol, The Bianchi Cup.

The falling plate rack has 8 inch plates out to 25 yards. With iron sights some of the best shooters in the world miss the plates. The X zone is 4 inches and many guys don't miss the X on the other stages. Range goes from 10 yards to 35 so we should be able to see a lot more 1920 perfect scores.

It's been achieved many times with red dots on autos. It's never happened with iron sights or a revolver.

Next year they are going to give $100000 to anyone shooting a 1900 iwht metalic sigths.

[Lloyd Smale]

with a load that shoots one inch at 25 off a bench i can usually shoot 2-3 inch off hand.

[Forester]

Some of you guys should be shooting Action Pistol, The Bianchi Cup.

The falling plate rack has 8 inch plates out to 25 yards. With iron sights some of the best shooters in the world miss the plates. The X zone is 4 inches and many guys don't miss the X on the other stages. Range goes from 10 yards to 35 so we should be able to see a lot more 1920 perfect scores.

It's been achieved many times with red dots on autos. It's never happened with iron sights or a revolver.

Next year they are going to give $100000 to anyone shooting a 1900 iwht metalic sigths.

I never shot Bianchi but I hold master classification in IDPA, upper end of A class in USPSA. I shot the VA state steel challenge match and did fairly well except for a mental lapse playing in a new game...

Accuracy is a different question when you also have to do it fast!

[44man]

2 inches at 25 yards is fairly common, but have to spread out the time or my eyes start to blur. Thats with a 7 1/2 bbl.

I have lots of one hole groups at 100yds. shoot six rds. and find one hole in the target (thats a one hole group aint it?) :wink:
That is a very fair thing to say. Most of us are like that.
We do a LOT of off hand shooting before season, the rest of the year---PPPFFFFFFT! [smilie=l:
It is like shooting a stick bow. Shoot all day, every day and you can hit anything but hang the bow up for a while and you hunt arrows in the woods and grass.
I have not been able to shoot. My knuckle swelled up bad, maybe from pulling the rope starters fixing my tillers and mower. I have been rubbing DMSO on it but it is not ready yet. Shooting will suffer big time when I get back.
You just can't shoot once a month or more and having to drive long distance to a range hurts all you do. Very hard to work loads, drive 100 miles to a range just to test. Or get stuck on a 15 yard indoor range.

[Shuz]

With a 4" 629 Mtn Gun with a 24 ounce trigger and 1050fps loads, and my Merit optical device, I can generally maintain 4" groups off hand at 25 yds, and drill 4 out of 5 IHMSA full size chickens at 50 meters. The load I use most is 8.6g of Green Dot and 429421. This load groups in less than 1 inch from a rest with a 5" bbl scope sighted 629, and about 1 inch on a good day with my Mtn Gun with it's Patridge front sight and my Merit.

[44man]

Some of you guys should be shooting Action Pistol, The Bianchi Cup.

The falling plate rack has 8 inch plates out to 25 yards. With iron sights some of the best shooters in the world miss the plates. The X zone is 4 inches and many guys don't miss the X on the other stages. Range goes from 10 yards to 35 so we should be able to see a lot more 1920 perfect scores.

It's been achieved many times with red dots on autos. It's never happened with iron sights or a revolver.

Next year they are going to give $100000 to anyone shooting a 1900 iwht metalic sigths.
I bet a lot of those shooters could do it slow fire.
Nobody can align open sights shooting as fast as they do. They amaze me as fast as they do shoot and get on a target.
If I remember a lady in VA shot 37 out of 40 and a fella finally beat the record with a 38 shooting to 200 meters in IHMSA. We had 2 minutes for 5 shots.
If you gave action pistol shooters 2 minutes, there would be a pile of perfect scores.