Best Guarantee

[badbob85037]

It has been at least 17 years ago I bought my little 4 station progressive re-loader , the Square Deal B from Dillon's Precision. I thing I paid about $175.00 back then. The price today is $365.00

We have all had life time guarantees, or we were given the impression of a life time guarantee until we went to use that guarantee then having the company read off it's fine print or being told no recite no guarantee.

My 1974 full size Chevy 4x4 is nearly bumper to bumper life time guarantee at Auto Zone and my recites, some over 25 years old are shown around the store before giving me my new part. But even Auto Zone will not honor that guarantee if the part I am returning has a few boolit holes in it. Who would have thoough?

In the lifetime of this press it has been shot, kicked, dropped, and a couple of times it just plain wore out. Dillion has had parts mailed to my front door every time with in two days. I live close to their shop in Scottsdale and stopped by to buy a few extra de-capping pins. Everybody has broken one or two in his time. I also just had the powder die replaced from stupidly swinging out of my attic scuttle hole slamming into the press and felt I owed them something. They would not take my money giving me a few extra in case I might need one. They did let me buy a few extra primmer feed tubes.

Two weeks ago I was working near their shop and dropped the 17 year old
loader off to be rebuilt. They told me it may take a few weeks. Two days latter I was called saying the loader was ready for me to pick up. The amount of new parts in the machine cost more than the thing cost new. It looks new and preforms as new. Since they still won't take a dime of my money this is the only way I know to thank them. Letting all you know when Dillion says life time guarantee they mean it. They have just come out with a new press for the .50 BMG that will load match rounds. Only $999.99 so when you all go to buy one tell em I sent you ; )

[jcwit]

So now we know why its $365 bucks, and the 50 cal. is $999 bucks. Nothing is free in this world. The price for replacement parts was made when the orginal press was purchased.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Perhaps, but they are one of the few companies who say Lifetime Guarantee and mean it.

You can choose to say that you paid for that guarantee up-front during the original purchase, or you can say that people who buy the presses now pay for earlier ones to be repaired. But the bottom line is that you will NEVER have to pay for repairs. And that's what is important.

[jcwit]

Either way someone is paying for it, its not free. The cost of repairs/replcements falls on someones shoulders and its not the manufcturer. Just like the health care system, someone is paying for it, its not free.

[Duckiller]

Sorry but the manufacturer that offers a lifetime guarantee is paying for it out of current earnings. They choose to retain some portion of their earnings to pay to replace broken parts. It is what they choose to do with a portion of their money. Health Insurance/care the worker pays for it. An employer can only pay a worker so much. The worker should let him know/negotiate how he wants it paid. Salary, insurance,vacation,sick leave, retirement, company vehicle it is all included in what you earn and its total value is what you cost your boss. In my last job salary was $34.00 per hour, Take home before taxes was $52.00+ per hour. If I didn't work I didn't get paid. No vacation, no insurance, no sick time, no holidays, all fringe benefits were converted to cash. Only thing I know the job shop paid for was 1/2 my social security and unemployment and workers comp. You pay for lots of things that you think are free. Most lifetime guarantees are only good as long as the company is in business and making money. A new owner MAY not honor a lifetime warranty, depending on how well they think the company will do. RCBS current owners are honoring OLD warranties. While we all like to get broken parts replaced for free I would suggest that no one should assume it is forever. Business conditions change and someday you may have to pay for a missing or broken part. Recently bought a Dillion 550B that was missing the part to feed small primers. Dillion charged me $10.00. It wasn't their fault that the previous owner had lost the part and based on what other people have posted I probably got the wrong customer service rep. Bought a Rockchucker in the early 70's. How long does RCBS have to provide free repairs? To me? To my sons? To grand children? In the long run I would much rather have RCBS an Dillion around making good tools and charging for repairs than going bankrupt providing free repairs.

[Mk42gunner]

Sorry but the manufacturer that offers a lifetime guarantee is paying for it out of current earnings. They choose to retain some portion of their earnings to pay to replace broken parts. It is what they choose to do with a portion of their money. Health Insurance/care the worker pays for it. An employer can only pay a worker so much. The worker should let him know/negotiate how he wants it paid. Salary, insurance,vacation,sick leave, retirement, company vehicle it is all included in what you earn and its total value is what you cost your boss. In my last job salary was $34.00 per hour, Take home before taxes was $52.00+ per hour. If I didn't work I didn't get paid. No vacation, no insurance, no sick time, no holidays, all fringe benefits were converted to cash. Only thing I know the job shop paid for was 1/2 my social security and unemployment and workers comp. You pay for lots of things that you think are free. Most lifetime guarantees are only good as long as the company is in business and making money. A new owner MAY not honor a lifetime warranty, depending on how well they think the company will do. RCBS current owners are honoring OLD warranties. While we all like to get broken parts replaced for free I would suggest that no one should assume it is forever. Business conditions change and someday you may have to pay for a missing or broken part. Recently bought a Dillion 550B that was missing the part to feed small primers. Dillion charged me $10.00. It wasn't their fault that the previous owner had lost the part and based on what other people have posted I probably got the wrong customer service rep. Bought a Rockchucker in the early 70's. How long does RCBS have to provide free repairs? To me? To my sons? To grand children? In the long run I would much rather have RCBS an Dillion around making good tools and charging for repairs than going bankrupt providing free repairs.

Well said, Duckiller.

If I break or lose a part; I expect to pay for it. If some thing breaks because of a manufacturing defect; the warranty should cover it. If I have used a quality tool enough to wear it out; I feel I have gotten my money's worth; and I don't mind paying for rebuild parts.

Robert

[Colorado4wheel]

Well said, Duckiller.

If I break or lose a part; I expect to pay for it. If some thing breaks because of a manufacturing defect; the warranty should cover it. If I have used a quality tool enough to wear it out; I feel I have gotten my money's worth; and I don't mind paying for rebuild parts.

Robert

When you buy a product that is advertised as "NO BS LIFETIME WARRANTY" you kinda want them to honor it. Sears does it with tools. I don't expect to pay for a new 12mm socket just because I wore it out. They promised to replace it if I do wear it out. I paid a premium 20 years ago when I bought it from them (compared to other box stores). I expect them to take care of me and hand me a new one. Of course they don't hand me a new one any longer. I get a used/returned one which kinda makes me mad. They no longer honor the lifetime on the tape measures either. Which is a breach of the contract I had when I bougth the tape measure. We pay a premium for Dillon products. I don't think it's too much to expect them to honor their No BS Warranty.

[cheese1566]

When it comes down to it really, is in addition to the lifetime warranty-be it Hornady, Dillon, RCBS...- it is the exceptional customer service that we get that sets those manufacturers aside from the rest of the world.

Exceptional customer service is what keeps us coming back for more, (plus those free parts don't hurt either!!!)

[Storydude]

The best Warranty?


The one I NEVER have to use. ;)

Kinda like "Lifetime warranty" on brakes. Matters not that I get new pads, it's the changing of them every 6 months.


buy the 3 year "warranty" pads and they last 3X as long as the "Lifetimes"

[David2011]

Then there's the other side of customer support. I bought a 6 month old 12" Orion telescope that sells new for over $1000. It was still under warranty to the original purchaser. I wanted to replace some plastic parts on the base that were chipped. This is a large telescope with a total weight of 88 pounds so a plastic part can get dinged. The company refused to sell me replacement parts, saying they "don't support second hand owners" and suggested that I contact the original owner and he could contact them for parts.

Yeah, I'll pay the premium to have what I consider the best reloading presses on the market. I think the price is fair for what I get. The no BS warranty is a nice bonus I'm happy to pay for. It's why all three presses and virtually every accessory on the handgun side of my reloading room is blue.

David

[GeneT]

Of course it's not free - nothing is. But it's more or less advertising - something they do to build goodwill with the customer. So tell me, would you rather see more Dillon ads in magazines, or know that they'll replace the odd lost or broken part?

BTW, I own three Dillon presses, have never had to get a spare part from Dillon (though I think that's about to change - I have a piece that will need replacing soon) and they have loaded hundreds of thousands of rounds. I've gotten my money's worth out of each of them.

GsT

[jcwit]

where in his statement did he say it was FREE ???


Well I guess you got me there, but in reality most folks who get replacements under warrenty think of them as FREE, you may not, but that would be just your opinion, which is just that, an opinion.

Was this positive enough?

[1hole]

"Bought a Rockchucker in the early 70's. How long does RCBS have to provide free repairs? To me? To my sons? To grand children? In the long run I would much rather have RCBS .."

Duck, thing is, the Lyman press I bought in '65 still works fine too. Meaning a long life outta presses, etc, isn't exclusive to green or blue. And, simple devices presses are, I've never needed nor expect to need any parts for it. Oil the moving parts once a year or so, if it needs it or not, and they all will last longer than we will. Or our kids.

I don't have a bit of discomfort with people buying what ever they wish, glad they can. I do get a bit frustrated at them telling us to buy blue or green for "free lifetime" parts because they sure aren't "free"; we pay for them if we ever get any or not. I buy by features, not color and I have tools from every brand but blue and that only because I have no need for a progressive. A two year warrantee seems like plenty of time to find any "manufactor's" defects and get them corrected at no cost. I take care of my tools so they last a looong time!

I have no heartburn paying for or fixing any rare small part I might screw up myself. But those who are less careful would do well to buy lots of stuff with "no BS" warrantees.

[Duckiller]

!hole the only thing that has broken on the Rockchucker is the flat spring on the primer installer. RCBS uses a slightly different style now. I bought the new style from a local gun shop. Oh I also broke the little plastic piece that holds the primer catcher in place. RCBS sent me a new primer catcher with small plastic piece.
I too have bought replacement parts for my/sons Lyman Spar-T presses. I don't have a problem with buying parts that break through normal usage, i.e. primer pins.
Without getting involved in the above pissing match, No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts. Their current price includes what they think they will spend on replacement parts this year. If they guess wrong the either make extra money or don't make as much as they hoped to. Don't forget that it costs a lot of money to make one press a year, but the unit price is a hole lot lower if you can sell one million presses a year. Every manufacturer makes an educated guess as to how many units will sell in the upcoming year. Under estimate and the units are priced too high and company looses money. Over estimate and you still loose money. Only if you are reasonably close do you make money. That is why bosses make big bucks. If they are wrong by too much or too often the company is broke and no one has a lifetime warranty or a job.

[jcwit]

Without getting involved in the above pissing match, No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts. Their current price includes what they think they will spend on replacement parts this year. If they guess wrong the either make extra money or don't make as much as they hoped to. Don't forget that it costs a lot of money to make one press a year, but the unit price is a hole lot lower if you can sell one million presses a year. Every manufacturer makes an educated guess as to how many units will sell in the upcoming year. Under estimate and the units are priced too high and company looses money. Over estimate and you still loose money. Only if you are reasonably close do you make money. That is why bosses make big bucks. If they are wrong by too much or too often the company is broke and no one has a lifetime warranty or a job.

Very, very true! And in many cases nothing is ever spent by the company in warrenty repairs or parts. Just a small amount of individual units require warrenty. And as you say, the lower amount the more money is made if the guesses by management were correct.

[mike in co]

.
Without getting involved in the above pissing match, No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts. Their current price includes what they think they will spend on replacement parts this year. If they guess wrong the either make extra money or don't make as much as they hoped to. Don't forget that it costs a lot of money to make one press a year, but the unit price is a hole lot lower if you can sell one million presses a year. Every manufacturer makes an educated guess as to how many units will sell in the upcoming year. Under estimate and the units are priced too high and company looses money. Over estimate and you still loose money. Only if you are reasonably close do you make money. That is why bosses make big bucks. If they are wrong by too much or too often the company is broke and no one has a lifetime warranty or a job.

so you are saying mike dillon is going broke on his dillon precision business ?

yes he charges alot going in.....you are buying a part with a lifetime warrantee.

sorry i dont see any facts to cover your statement "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts."

explain how he stays in business ??

mike in co

[45nut]

jeeze guys,, why must this thread go to heck with such petty bickering over such petty stuff? Get along or take a few days off and try to remember the focus of the board is to share and not pick apart each other!

[deerslayer]

Nice to hear that they back up their warranty. As they say no "BS" warranty. I don't have any dillon products yet but when I get there that is good to know.

[Mumblypeg]

Let's look at it this way... If Dillion made a vehicle... you would only have to buy one in your life. I don't think anybody has a better warranty. I've delt with them and I know.

[220swiftfn]

"so you are saying mike dillon is going broke on his dillon precision business ?
yes he charges alot going in.....you are buying a part with a lifetime warrantee.
sorry i dont see any facts to cover your statement "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts."
explain how he stays in business ??

mike in co"


Not to be glib, but I believe that Dillon Precision could out and out *replace* every piece of equipment that it has ever produced, and not even register on the the bottom line of Dillon Aero's profit margin......

Dan

[Heavy lead]

so you are saying mike dillon is going broke on his dillon precision business ?

yes he charges alot going in.....you are buying a part with a lifetime warrantee.

sorry i dont see any facts to cover your statement "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts."

explain how he stays in business ??

mike in co

Duckiller actually did, he was attempting to give an example of the importance of beancounting and "correct pricing" as it pertains to economies of scale. He is correct in saying "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts." as it pertains to just "one" press, but can make up for it with economies of scale and the likelyhood that only a certain percentage (using past data usually as a base line) of parts will go bad, then only a certain percentage of those will actually be returned for replacement.
Whatever the matter though Dillon is for sure a great company, at least we think so. Of course none of us are privy to the bottom line. Hopefully they are doing well and will continue to do so. We're also lucky that most of all the companies in this reloading equipment field seem to be as equally as impressive to different degree's and market that they serve. They all appear for the most part to be in business for the long run rather than be concerned for certain short run profits that can doom a corporation.

[deerslayer]

I will give Lee Precision props in the fact that they have honored their warranty for me if I tell them it is less then two years old they replace it no questions asked. I have nothing but good to say about their warranty. As to the frequency I have had to call them to get a part replaced that is another matter entirely.

One of these days I will get a dillon or a hornady.

[mike in co]

"so you are saying mike dillon is going broke on his dillon precision business ?
yes he charges alot going in.....you are buying a part with a lifetime warrantee.
sorry i dont see any facts to cover your statement "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts."
explain how he stays in business ??

mike in co"


Not to be glib, but I believe that Dillon Precision could out and out *replace* every piece of equipment that it has ever produced, and not even register on the the bottom line of Dillon Aero's profit margin......

Dan

i dont disagree, but they are two seperate companies........

[Jerry11826]

Dillon guarantee and customer service have got to be the best or equal to the best in the reloading industry. The people on the telephone are well informed about their products and seem to be sincerely interested in making their customers happy.

I know you folks are tired of nice Dillon stories, but I want to tell you mine.

I think I bought one of the first SDB presses Dillon made, vintage mid to late 80's . I think I only paid about $150.00 for it. Surely I loaded 100K plus rounds on the machine. Anyway, sometime in the early 2000's I started getting a lot of flipped and tipped primers, especially when I loaded with large pistol primers. Called Dillon and explained my problem. Dillon service reps must have a computer terminal that displays the customer history. Anyway, the rep asked me if I had replaced the “wave” bushings. I told him no. He told me these were a service related part and needed to be replaced occasionally. Said he would get replacements out to me ASAP. About a week later, I got the not one set of “wave” bushings, but three sets. Additionally, I was sent a new primer feeder assembly. The primer assembly was complete. I mean complete. It had the large primer cup assembled on a new slider bar, the large feed tube and the explosion protector. Just removed the old complete assembly and inserted the new. Apparently, Dillon had upgraded the product since I bought mine. No more problems.

Anyway, does guarantee and service get any better than this?

Now, I hope you understand, I paid for that guarantee and customer service. However, the high price and quality of equipment keeps the resale price of Dillon products unusually high.

About three years ago, I converted to the Lee Loadmaster. I started to sell my Dillon stuff. “Netted” about $750.00. That paid for my two Loadmasters and hopefully a new Thumbler’s tumbler I plan to buy. Also, put about $150.00 in my pocket. Does reloading life get any better?

Now if I can get RCBS to replace my 1986 Pro Melt. Frame is rusting out. I will truly be in fat city.

Jerry

[mike in co]

Duckiller actually did, he was attempting to give an example of the importance of beancounting and "correct pricing" as it pertains to economies of scale. He is correct in saying "No manufacturer charges enough in its initial price to give 'LIFETIME" free parts." as it pertains to just "one" press, but can make up for it with economies of scale and the likelyhood that only a certain percentage (using past data usually as a base line) of parts will go bad, then only a certain percentage of those will actually be returned for replacement.
Whatever the matter though Dillon is for sure a great company, at least we think so. Of course none of us are privy to the bottom line. Hopefully they are doing well and will continue to do so. We're also lucky that most of all the companies in this reloading equipment field seem to be as equally as impressive to different degree's and market that they serve. They all appear for the most part to be in business for the long run rather than be concerned for certain short run profits that can doom a corporation.

sorry,
i did not say i was stupid.
i understand that the pricing is based on some repairs, to some presses,not every press rebuilt every year.
like i said i see no facts backing up the statement.

[dudel]

But the bottom line is that you will NEVER have to pay for repairs. And that's what is important.

Plus it preserves your investment should you ever decide to sell it.

Although, my Dillon's a keeper.

[Heavy lead]

sorry,
i did not say i was stupid.
i understand that the pricing is based on some repairs, to some presses,not every press rebuilt every year.
like i said i see no facts backing up the statement.

Mike, neither did I, no facts are obtainable as I'm sure it is confidential information within the Dillon Precision organization.
Lack of facts don't make a statement wrong, or an opinion, nor do they make it correct. Remember, we're just jawwing here.

[rbstern]

Where have I seen this thread before?

Oh, yeah, right here. About a dozen times. :)

[jcwit]

Who ever thought folks could get so passionate over a f'en warrenty?

I'm right, you're wrong no matter what youre possition or how you look at it.