Casting for antique Springfield trapdoor

[awaveritt]

My cousin has an authentic Springfield trapdoor 45-70 rifle for which we were discussing appropriate cast projectiles. He doesn't cast but is considering taking me up on an offer to cast him some Lee 457-405-FP (I have this mold). The rifle is a shooter but he shoots j-word factory loads and would prefer a more traditional cast load. My question is, should these boolits be cast from Pb or is some combination of Pb/WW acceptable? I think he actually prefers a hollow-based design thinking it would obturate more effectively and go easier on his barrel/action with regard to pressure, etc. Not sure whether he plans on black powder loads or smokeless.

I want to help him out by casting some boolits but don't want to sent his prized antique into orbit! Any suggestions/advice?

[mooman76]

The old guns like the trap door like soft bullets but it doesn't have to be pure. I shoot the Lee 459 405 fp in mine. I never got it to shoot as well as I wanted but it didn't shoot bad either. J-bullets arent the best in these older guns with the soft steel. It will wear them out quicker so moving to cast would be better. He should slug the barrel too because they tend to run around .459 or so but the Hb will help. If he already shot J-bullets like you said, lead bullets aren't going to put it in orbit.

[Wayne Smith]

First, if he wants to shoot factory he should only be shooting Cowboy loads with lead boolits. That barrel is relatively soft as Mooman says.

Second, you can't make a lead boolit hard enough to damage that barrel. That's why you use lead! I loaded the Lyman 457125 for an original and it shot that well with 70gr Goex. I bought a PAST pad after shooting that load the first time!

As has been said many times here, fit is king. Slug the barrel and get a mold that will cast .002" larger than the groove.

[Grapeshot]

If your cousin wants to shoot this gun with any accuracy the lead he should be using should be about 30 to one, lead tin mix. No antimony in the mix. Secondly, If you use the 405 grain bullet, the best one to use is the Hollow Based design by Lee, Rapine, or NEI. This will allow the base to expand like a minnie ball and grip the rifling.

Groove diameter in the Springfield is usually .460 inches on the average, and it has a three groove three land one in twenty twist.

The M1881 bullet, the standard round nose, 500 grain bullet for the Rifle will shoot well with that same lead tin mix.

As to powders. Any of the reloading manuals will give a good load to choose from.

One other suggestion, get Wolf's book on Reloading for Original Springfield .45-70Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines.
Good luck.

[BarryinIN]

I use straight WW with mine. I have a Rapine 457500, which makes a fairly close copy of the M1881 500 grain bullet. Luckily, instead of the .457 they should be, they cast at .460-.461, which is right where I need. They are a little light, though, at round 494 grains but I doubt 6 grains will make a difference.

[chuebner]

I have the Rapine 460500 which cast right at .460 with 20:1 alloy. My M1888 trapdoor slugs at .450 x.460 so I lightly lapped the mold and bullets now drop at .462. This rifle consistently shoots sub 3" groups at 100yd. Best load is 65gr. GOEX 2F under the Rapine bullet, WW cases, Wolf LR primer.

charlie

[bart55]

I use the lee 405HB and also use 30 to 1 mostly black powder but sometimes 5744 and it seems to like it . But the best accuracy was with the holy black

[Larry Gibson]

Here's 10 shots at 200 yards out of my target TD with the 460500 Rapine. I cast them 1-16 Tin/lead and they drop at .4615 - .462. I size to .4615 for my TD for it's .461 groove diameter. Lube is 50/40 beeswax/olive oil. Load is a duplex of GOEX Cartridge over 4759. This load and rifle regularly shoot under 2 moa at 200 yards with 10 shot groups. The old TDs will definately shoot. My H&R Officer's Model will also shoot into less than 2 moa with Lymans 457124 over 4895 or 5744.

Larry Gibson

[Dutchman]

Best book you'll ever buy:

Loading Cartridges for the Original .45-70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine by J.S. & Pat Wolf

Excellent book.

I cast a Lyman and Lee using a way too hard Linotype alloy and cookie cutter lubed the bullets of .459". That rifle would shoot cloverleafs. If I was doing it now I'd just 30:1 or plain wheel weights.
I loaded 35 grs du Pont IMR3031 with the 385 gr Lyman. Very accurate and fairly mild.

Dutch

[Shiloh]

With any antique rifle, keep the load on the mid range or less. After all, these things are virtually irreplaceable. Seen several over the years. All with cast, all with milder loads.

Shiloh