Help me select equipment for casting

[GreenMachine79]

I have never casted bullets and I want to start casting for my the 44 Mag. I've spent several hours reading up on casting and want to purchase the equipment. I'm looking to beable to cast over a open flame propane/natural gas, or a wood fire in a SHTF scenerio. If I understand it correctly I need a pot, a ladle, a mould, and lube. Is their anything else that I need? I am not looking to pinch every last penny, I want some decent equipment so give me some suggestions.

Also what mould would you reccomend for hunting with a 44 Mag, I would want something in the 240gr - 300gr. I made just get a LEE for the time being and jump in on a group buy if their is something that would perform very well.

Ladel http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=283142

Pot http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=523105

[Artful]

Well personally I don't cast over open flame, I use electric pots (RCBS Promelt).
I have a few outdoor propane burners 30,000 BTU range burners and a Turkey fryer which with 40 psi regulator is rated at 185,000 BTU's and can tell you they suck down a 20 lb bottle pretty quick.

In a SHTF scenerio I know your best fuel will not be Propane/LNG but liquid - so I'd suggest looking for a nice used double burner coleman stove.

Next thing is look for flat bottom pot that will cover the burner - cast Iron best choice - Large enough to hold at least 20 pounds as the larger molds like 300 grainers suck up quite a bit of lead pretty quickly. Used garage sale stuff is fine or hit place like harbor freight for a dutch oven - on a coleman stove the legs should just poke thru the grill or if you want you can cut them off.

- you might want to check out Lee 6 cavity moulds best bank for the buck. You may want a piece of flat iron for the other side of the stove to make a hot plate to preheat your molds on.

I prefer keith style SWC molds for 44 mag I have other styles but they give best range and shock for hunting. I usually use 240-245 grainers, I tried some heavier in handgun and didn't like it much but LEE does make a heavy one (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=949198) - Now you notice this is a gas check design. I personally feel for SHTF I want a plain base mold - one designed to be without gas checks. You want GC for faster speeds with less leading but with a 300 grainer are you going to get it that fast?

I would also think about the lubing - I assume you plan to either pan lube or tumble lube with Lee Liquid ALOX. For SHTF I would say use non-tumble lube design as you may not be able to get LLA and you can use homemade beeswax type lubes with conventinal deep groove designs. If you have to size you can use a Lee push thru sizer with most presses.

You'll need safety googles, welding gloves etc

you can check on You-boob for some expert viewing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hf2jkc8ObA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyor1EmgbHU
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ammosmith#p/u/122/1ofd_l53Jrk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt42PAHDUU0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBpOhtnmuY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6Glhqe3xo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBDFO0ftCQc

[bowhunter]

I will try, the first thing i would do is chose a bottom pour lead furnace, with that you can do away with a ladle and a gas cooker, and it makes it a lot more simple. You will need a way to size and lube your bullets, i use a star, it works like a dream but it is high in cost. You can start with the lee lube size die and there alox tumble lube, also you can use this lube system on any bullet,it is cheap and works very good. For a bullet profile for hunting i would use a swc. A lee bullet made for the tumble lube alox will work great. If you are going to shoot full house loads i would a mould with a gas check. You can harden the bullet a bit by water quenching it. (drop it stright from the mould into a bucket of water) be careful doing this! Water and solidified lead don't mix. I hope this helps........mike

[Changeling]

I have never casted bullets and I want to start casting for my the 44 Mag. I've spent several hours reading up on casting and want to purchase the equipment. I'm looking to beable to cast over a open flame propane/natural gas, or a wood fire in a SHTF scenerio. If I understand it correctly I need a pot, a ladle, a mould, and lube. Is their anything else that I need? I am not looking to pinch every last penny, I want some decent equipment so give me some suggestions.

Also what mould would you reccomend for hunting with a 44 Mag, I would want something in the 240gr - 300gr. I made just get a LEE for the time being and jump in on a group buy if their is something that would perform very well.

Ladel http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=283142

Pot http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=523105

I think what you are doing is great. Sense you are only reloading for 1 caliber right now it makes perfect sense to start with the items you selected.
There are guys on this web site that "prefer" casting with a ladle. My understanding also is some of the guys that shoot in competition use a ladle for casting.

Personally I know very little other than what I read so far about the casting process, (we're in the same boat).

Your choice of RCBS is very good, they have a great customer satisfaction staff. Take a look at there molds for the 44 also.

Don't be in to big of a hurry and take a look at your different items of interest through the search engine, loads of information.

BTW, welcome to the site.

[justingrosche]

I love these SHTF scenario's. You could poll a hundred guys and they'd all tell you something different. I tend to think of it like this: What can I throw in a pack and carry? On the extreme side of the SHTF, you home food stores are long gone, and so now you must forage. So you need shelter, clothes ,food, water and some sort of fuel source and it all must fit in you pack. If you add the extra weight of even simple reloading gear,I believe you'll leave the casting gear in the ditch about day three, and all but the loaded shells shortly there after.
I have lots of rifles and handguns to chose from for my last ditch weapon, but in all honestly, it would end up being the lowly 22 rifle.

[qajaq59]

I have lots of rifles and handguns to chose from for my last ditch weapon, but in all honestly, it would end up being the lowly 22 rifle. Or a flintlock since I can make black powder and find flint. :mrgreen:

[Echo]

Frankly, GM59, everything will work. You will get ALL KINDS of advice, and it is all good. The only thing for you to do is start with something, get some experience, spend time with it, then check out some other equipment, ad infinitum. A few years down the line you will have decided on what you like best - but still will be experimenting!

[justingrosche]

I agree with Echo, just jump in. Through the process of success and failure you will learn, as we all have.
Kind of like what I said before you can ask a 100 people and get a 100 different answers on how to do it but it really all comes down to what works for you, in your situation, doing what your trying to do. The only way to truly figure it out is try it and learn.
Justin
And no I wouldn't be tempted to heft a 10 lb.side locker over a 4 lb 22 LR. I would at the very least, would want the ability to lay down suppressive fire for an escape. Tough to do with a muzzy.

[fryboy]

some folks get to start with the best of everything .....some folks dont have that luxury ....one thing i do know ? it'll never be like the movies lolz but ...if u watch movies patriot shows the ladle being the pot ,in the old days u didnt pack heavy or too much extra ,dixie gun works sells such a ladle ,IMHO it's a lil small but ....

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_101_288&products_id=8091

a tin can actually works to melt lead in ...may not be as durable as a cast iron pot but it weighs alot less ( and u could of ate the food in it first !! -try that with a plastic package lolz )
i dont see reloading as being viable in a SHTF type scenario at all perhaps a nuclear aftermath but then u would have a base camp and other supplies anyways ,if ur not ready when SHTF u never will be ..........

[Wayne Smith]

That pot only holds 10lbs. A 2qt SS pot from your local thrift store will hold 20lbs easily. The handle won't survive long, but then you won't be moving it when hot anyway. A pair or two of vice grips will do if necessary. A 10lb pot is not adequate for heavy boolits, you will run out too soon and you will run the level low and thus increase the temp while casting.

As you noted, a heat source is necessary, I use a 2 burner Coleman propane stove and have accidently had my mix over 900 degrees - much hotter than necessary. You will want the RCBS ladle and you will eventually want a Rowell #1 or #2 to fill ingot molds - yes, you will eventually be mixing alloys.

Since you will be ladle casting a good thermometer is really a necessity - you need to know the fluctuations of temp in your melt, expecially as you draw it down. This effects boolit weight. You will also need copious amounts of a good flux as you will be creating oxidies every time you stick the ladle into the melt and draw it out. I fluxed at least three times Monday in less than an hour of casting. I use a ladle exclusively and used to make candles, I have pounds of candle wax on hand. Makes a good flux.

You will need a place for the boolits to land when they are still soft - and it has to be large enough that you can move them to one side and keep casting, not dropping fresh casted boolits on harder boolits. An old towel works well.

You will need a place to cast - a table. Ground level doesn't work well, but the back of a pickup truck with the gate down is workable. You will need some place to load as well, I'm assuming you are not limiting yourself to a original Lee Loader or Lyman 310. This also means a table of some type. If you will have a press and casting rig you may as well add a lube sizer, its not that bulky.

As to molds, I really like Miha's Cramer style brass molds. Only two cavities, but quick to use and versatile. They will last and aren't fragile as some aluminum molds are.

You will need to store/carry a substantial amount of alloy.

Are you beginning to see the problem? You will need a base or a substantial vehicle which requires gas and service. Not exactly a pick up and go scenario.

[GreenMachine79]

I probably should have explained myself a little more. I am not expecting to haul a pot and 100lbs of lead around, I have black rifles which would be better suited for some scenrios. I would like to know how to cast bullets in a more rustic fasion because I think it would be fun and good to know just incase. For me I don't see it as a money saving endevure, once I calculate the materials, equipment, and time spent that I could have been working its a money loosing proposition when compared to commercial bullets. Another advantage is I wouldnt have to deal with the manufactures supply problems, I've been using Hornady 300gr XTPs and right now I can't find them, they probably wont be around until late summer.

With this input this is what I am thinking about getting now.

2qt Stainless Pot
ladel
dual fuel stove
thermometer
Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold C430-310-RF
Gas checks
non gas check bullet mold, undecided
and I would pan lube

How do the 6 cavity molds compare to the 2? is their and disadvantage? It seems like the 2 cavity would be easier and yeild more consistand bullets.

I am thinking of a mixture of 3 parts lead 1 part linotype and 2% tin, drop the bullets into water to bring the hardness up, this would be for full loads using the lee mold. Does anyone see a problem with this?

[fryboy]

it's entirely possible that with ur proposed alloy it may not heat treat( water quench or otherwise) general consensus runs that even tho it is the antimony that heat treats that arsenic is what further enables this ( u can get a lil of both by adding some small magnum shot or wheel weights ) tin kinda works against this hardening so unless u really need it to help fill out of the mold i wouldnt add very much , i will say that while a tin can or a thin stainless steel pot will melt lead it's the cast iron that helps hold heat and keep the temp more even (especially with a fire) tho it does take a lil longer to warm up they do hold heat better .... for a economical plain based mold i'm really digging the lee 44 cal 200 RF,works in my 44-40 as well as the special and mag ,i doubt that i'd push it as hard as a gas checked version tho

[Wayne Smith]

The Lee 6 cavity molds are a much more robust design than the 2 cavity molds. You have to treat the 2 cavity molds quite gently to make them last. I don't think I'd even try to use them the way I cast without welding gloves because I literally hold the mold in my hand after dumping and gently shut it.

Dual fuel stove is nice, but dual burner is necessary for the Coleman. The one burner Coleman is not stale or powerful enough for a lot of lead. There are robust one burner stoves out there though.

If you are going to use gas checks you will need a way to crimp them on. This means a sizer of some type. The Lee is good if you seriously plan to pan lube long term.

[Artful]

I probably should have explained myself a little more. I am not expecting to haul a pot and 100lbs of lead around, I have black rifles which would be better suited for some scenrios. I would like to know how to cast bullets in a more rustic fasion because I think it would be fun and good to know just in case.

Excellent idea - remember to stock up on components for your "black rifles" most modern semi-auto's don't do cast as well as older rifle designs


For me I don't see it as a money saving endevure, once I calculate the materials, equipment, and time spent that I could have been working its a money loosing proposition when compared to commercial bullets. Another advantage is I wouldnt have to deal with the manufactures supply problems, I've been using Hornady 300gr XTPs and right now I can't find them, they probably wont be around until late summer.

Being your of product source is a major improvement in independance, I always think of shooting more for same amount as would be spent on commercial ammo

With this input this is what I am thinking about getting now.

2qt Stainless Pot
ladel
dual fuel stove
thermometer
Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold C430-310-RF
Gas checks
non gas check bullet mold, undecided
and I would pan lube

How do the 6 cavity molds compare to the 2? is their and disadvantage? It seems like the 2 cavity would be easier and yeild more consistand bullets.

Nope 6 cavity Lee is better design and triples output. Both 2 & 6 are bored the same for cavity so no difference there and with a 6 cavity you could increase the shank on some of them to cast GC and non GC at the same time. I'd reconsider your stainless steel pot if your going to cast on wood as well cast iron will spread the heat around with less hot spots in the bottom of the pot.

I am thinking of a mixture of 3 parts lead 1 part linotype and 2% tin, drop the bullets into water to bring the hardness up, this would be for full loads using the lee mold. Does anyone see a problem with this?

Alloy adjustment for designed purpose is the key - what are you trying to do with the bullet make it expand - drill thru - why 3 parts leads - 1 part linotype and added tin?

[Bret4207]

I have to agree with Wayne, as usual, and throw in a couple reason not already added. I went form cast iron pots on a Coleman to stainless on a hot plate. When I did my dross accumulation dropped by at least half. If you drop a cast pot there's a good chance it will break. Stainless will dent. Cast rusts, stainless pretty much doesn't. I like heavy gauge stainless. I'm still not sold on bottom pour pots after 30+ years of ladle casting, but if I had to have one, it wouldn't be a Lee. I love Lee products, just not their pots and ladle.

2 bangers vs. 6 bangers. Ahhh, the great debate. Yup, 6 bangers are built better. Yup, 2 (or 1) bangers are slower. Yup, 6 bangers can be 6 times the headache! Here's the facts- when you start out learning this game your sole concern should be producing PERFECT BOOLITS. A pile of 600 lousy castings with big wrinkles, partial noses, incomplete bands and bases is just a pile of tiny ingots, they aren't boolits. IMO everyone should start out like I did, with a single cavity or dual cavity. Learn to make that mould work and produce perfect boolits, then move on to the big guns.

[Cowboy T]

I actually started with the Lee 6-bangers. I got a good quantity of good boolits after the first 8 or 10 castings, once I figured out what to do.

Bret4207's advice of "your sole concern should be producting PERFECT BOOLITS" is right on. Though I started with the "big gun", I still took my time until I learned what I was doing. You should do likewise. Now, I can bang out 2,000 boolits for .45 Colt, 200gr, in a few hours...with maybe 10 rejects.

If you're planning for a SHTF scenario, then you should have a stash of a few thousand boolits already made, ready to go. You should also have ammo, ready to go. If you don't, then you're not ready for SHTF. If I'm out in the woods, I have no intention of dragging a casting setup with me. I'm simply going to bring my firearm and as much ammo as I can. And if the riots in the streets start, I won't have time to cast, or even reload. I've got my home to defend RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

With that, I'd suggest just going ahead and picking up that which lets you cast plenty of good boolits...BEFORE the SHTF. In my case, that means a Lee 6-banger mould, a Lee Pro 4-20 electric pot, and a decent thermometer.

[yarro]

If I ever have to start casting due during an emergency then the Fit has really hit the Shan ;-). I try to keep as many bullets on hand an as much brass as possible topped with projos. If society completely breaks down and stays that way, you will be spending most of your time growing, scrounging, or hunting up food. The pioneers didn't shoot a whole lot except for the occasional bragging rights and a gathering, hunting, or denfending themselves. Components were too expensive and hard to come by to just plink.

When I was young, my dad cast miniball and round ball using a 3 or 4 pound capacity ladle sitting in the wood stove. Think the ladle came from a machinst friend that used to for poring babbit when he got a new one. I remember the handle having been broken and repaired. He shot a couple of deer with those miniball. Also remember going to an old shooting range that had closed and mining the berm for the lead he used.

-yarro