Trying to match Pete's 45-70 loads

[44man]

I have cast 300 Postell boolits with Pete's mould and changing one thing at a time, I have had little luck. He puts a light crimp on his so I did the same for the first--worst group of all. I then barely sized as I do for my larger diameter boolits, left on the flare after seating the boolits. They were loose and I could wiggle them back and forth. These shot the best with 4 in an inch at 200 yd's and one flier out a little. Then I set the sizer to size just enough to make a snug hand fit for the boolit, left on the flare and the groups opened up again. I was using Fed LP mag primers. I loaded more with the Fed LR mag, match primer and the groups were still too large.
So for now, the boolit flopping around in the case shot the best group. I guess I will have to go to Pete's and watch him load, doesn't make sense to me at all.
I weighed out 80 boolits and I had 3 that were 1/2 gr light and 1 that was 1 gr light. I had no boolit rejects in the 300 I cast, from the first to last so my casting technique is OK.
I used Lar's High Temp lube and had zero fouling or leading problems. The bore cleaned up super fast after I was done.
I normally shoot .460 to .461 boolits. The Postell is .457 to .458 and is too small for my bore in the Browning. I don't know why Pete's loads shoot so good unless he gets the mould so cruddy inside that the boolits are larger. I have to measure his boolits when I go over. When he casts he has lead splatter all over his mould and it takes me an hour to clean it. His bench and floor is full of splatter. I can make 1000 boolits and the mould, bench and floor will be as clean as when I started. Maybe I have to get sloppy!

[SharpsShooter]

Regarding the loose boolits...A gent at a match I attended last year was carrying his 45-70 loads in his hand to the firing line as he was preparing to shoot the 500 meter rams tipped his hand the wrong way and the boolits fell out of the cases and had him searching for the 530gr Postels in the grass. I found it amusing and decided to watch closely as he stuffed them back in the cases and got in position to fire his string. He was using a Hepburn and IIRC shot 4 out of five in each bank of targets. Talking to him later he said that all he did was clean and re prime the cases, measure and compress the powder with wads in place and finally finger seat the boolits. Go figure... 8 of 10 at 500 meter is fine shooting in my book.

[wills]

If I recall correctly Croft Barker; The Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette Handbook advocates not resizing or crimping.

[martinibelgian]

That is exactly what I do for my 45-70 - deprime, clean, reprime, load powder, seat wad, finger seat bullet, which is loose, and will drop out of the case when reversed. Works perfectly, as long as you keep OAL to shove the bullet into the rifling, engraving the front bands.
Why add more complexity if simple also works? Those loads will shoot into a ragged hole at 100 if I do my bit - which is of course the biggest problem...:???:
A load needs a consistent bullet pull, and if you neck or FL size, brass hardness is a variable difficult to control. But NO neck tension at all is also very consistent, and the initial resistance you get by seating the bullet into the rifling. Certainly if you use a borerider, this will align the bullet perfectly in the barrel every time.
FWIW, I shot a practice target today at 75m, scored a 98 (MLAIC rules - best 10 out of 13 shots) with those floppy bullets

[montana_charlie]

That is exactly what I do for my 45-70 - deprime, clean, reprime, load powder, seat wad, finger seat bullet, which is loose, and will drop out of the case when reversed.
That is my method, as well, with one extra step...
Since the cases are fireformed only, the .460 bullets go in without flaring the mouth.

I then run loaded rounds through the Lyman .45 Short taper crimp die adjusted to 'just barely' touch the (unflared) case mouth.

My bullets still turn freely within the mouth, but the brass grips the lead just enough so they can't fall out...if handled gently.

But I can still use inertia to pull a bullet...by just smacking my hands together. Don't need to use the hammer-type puller.
CM

[44man]

I leave the flare on to center the front of the case in the chamber. It is slight and the expander doesn't touch when I do it. Can't say if it helps or not but it sounds good! Makes it easier to start a boolit without scraping off a bunch of lube.

[John Boy]

If I recall correctly Croft Barker; The Black Powder Cartridge Silhouette Handbook advocates not resizing or crimping.
Wills ... and Harry Pope advocated muzzle loading BPCR bullets with no crip. He couldn't have been all wrong - he shot a 200yd offhand score that still stands to this day.

Of course, Harry also made the finest barrels known to man that might have helped too:-D