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Rangerone
08-10-2006, 11:11 PM
For your reading pleasure, I thought I would post a few of my chronographed results from my new Marlin 1894C in 357 Magnum.

Bullet on first four is SAECO #354, 180 grain with Hornady gas check, cast with wheelweights and sized to .358. I use 40 lbs. wheelweights and 1 pound of linotype. I hardness tested the bullets 24 hours later on my Cabin Tree tester and got readings of 14 for the air cooled and 22 for the water cooled. As you can see from the standard deviations, I think the water cooled bullets are just a bit more consistent (not to mention easier to cast) and I will probably water cool everything from now on.

Does anyone think that sizing the bullets to .359 might improve my accuracy? How about more speed?

Primers are Winchester small pistol, cases are miscellaneous 357 Magnum, brass and nickel mixed, trimmed to 1.278. The rifle fed all of these bullets flawlessly. I had to return the rifle to Marlin initially because it would not feed anything short of a 130 grain metal case bullet... I have to say that Marlin did an excellent job and the rifle has been perfect since I received it back from them. It's still has problems feeding lead semi wad cutter's, but I really don't care now.

10 shot groups, fired over an Oehler 35P with proof channel.

FPS High, FPS Low, Ext. Spread, Avg. Vel, Std. Dev, Load.
1538, 1474, 64, 1513, 15, Air cooled, 12.2 gr. 2400
1523, 1472, 51, 1507, 14, Water cooled, 12.2 gr. 2400
1468, 1369, 99, 1430, 29, Air cooled, 9.7 gr. Blue Dot
1470, 1380, 90, 1426, 27, Water cooled, 9.7 Blue Dot

1763, 1695, 68, 1722, 16, Speer 158 gr. Gold Dot, 14.9 gr. 2400

As to accuracy, it is obvious that this rifle prefers heavier bullets. I tried some other 150 grain loads, using both gas checked and without and I find the heavier bullets are much more consistent in grouping. I shot my test groups from 50 yards at my home range. All groups were fired with a rifle firmly bagged on my bench rest equipment. The trigger on the rifle leaves much to be desired and that might be my next focus, however I am quite satisfied with the accuracy I received, especially with the heavy cast bullets.

Taking out the occasional flyer, all of these loads clustered into groups of approximately 1 to 1 1/2". Accuracy with the jacketed bullets was excellent (8 clustered into .750) as you might expect, given their consistency.

I think I will concentrate on this 180 grain water cooled bullet with 2400 & Blue Dot and start raising the velocity incrementally until the primers start to flatten or my groups open up.

On a related note, I find the Cabin Tree tester gives more consistent readings if you "preload" the sample you are testing. By preloading, I mean that I adjust the dial indicator so that the needle is approximately one half of an increment behind the zero. I put the sample in place and I bring the point up to the meplat and then turn the crank just enough to bring the needle forward onto the zero, and then I make my full turn from there. I have found my results to be much more consistent...

If anyone has any advice on pet loads for this neat little rifle, please feel free to post here as I would love to find the direction toward the optimal loads for this rifle so that I can standardize. While I do enjoy casting and reloading, I find the ultimate reward is finding that "perfect load" that always shoots great and then just settling on that particular load...

Dale53
08-11-2006, 01:38 AM
Rangerone;
I would encourage you to improve the trigger pull on your rifle. If you are good with your hands, you can do it yourself or let an experienced gunsmith (not a "parts changer") do it for you. It is relatively easy to end up with a really nice 2.5 lb trigger. I did my own 25/20 trigger job and have been VERY happy with it.

Dale53

omgb
08-11-2006, 01:58 AM
I used the same GC SAECO bullet and 10.4 grains of 2400 in my 1894. I got groups that went .75" at 50 yards easy.

omgb
08-11-2006, 02:28 AM
I cast some of these SAECO GC bullets up tonight and tried to size them at .359. The sizer isn't touching any metal at that dia. I'm using a mix of 15 lbs of WW and 5 lbs of Lyman #2. I'm casting hot and water cooling. I can't check the hardness as I don't have a measuring tool but these bullets do not dent or mark with a thumbnail. I tried .357 and shots opened up a lot ...maybe 4" at 50 yrads and sometimes even more. These SAECO bullets actually shoot better than factory 158 grain SPs.

Junior1942
08-11-2006, 06:53 AM
Try that 180 gr bullet with 15.0 grs of LilGun, and I'm betting you'll get 1700+ fps velocity and better accuracy.

imashooter2
08-11-2006, 07:15 AM
14.9 grains of Lil' Gun gets the group buy C358-180RF moving 1,703 fps average in my 1894C with an SD of 43 fps. It runs fast, but it isn't as accurate as 12.0 grains of 2400 (1,489 av., 10 SD).

I also shoot the SAECO #353 (plain base version of the #354). Like OMGB, a .359 sizer doesn't do much but put lube in the grooves. Best results so far with the #353 has been 10.5 grains of 2400 (1,349, 12 SD).

Check my post in the Gunsmithing section on modifying a Marlin carrier for longer OAL. It has a link to Marauder's pages that provide some easy step by step instructions for a do it yourself trigger job. I've done that on my 336 and 1894C and was pleased with the results on both rifles.

Rangerone
08-11-2006, 10:19 AM
After I wrote this, I checked the OD of the bullets and found what some of you already knew, that .359 would essentially be a fall through... .358 it is.

Dale53... I am quite good with my hands but the few articles I've read on improving the trigger pull the rifle involved buying some type of jig from Brownell's. I have seen the various trigger spring kits, would these make a difference? I will go re-read that and see what I missed. As to the carrier issue, the rifle has fed flawlessly since it was retuned from Marlin. I actually wrote a letter to Mr. McKenna and complained about the quality of the rifle. The rifle that was returned to me had been reblued, rebarreled and the wood had been upgraded. Also, the serial number had been scribed on many of the parts so I assume someone gave it a good going over. Marlin customer service is great!

omgb... So you're telling me I should use a lighter load?

Junior1942... I have seen some of your postings using Lil Gun. Currently, I have a rather large supply of 2400 & Blue Dot so I was trying to use what I had. The next time Gander Mountain sends me one of those gift certificates I'll go pick up some of this powder.

Thank you all for the responses. I have been reloading since 1974 and intermittently casting bullets since then. There is always something to learn...

omgb
08-11-2006, 10:21 AM
2400 is interesting stuff. it was the first powder I ever used in the 38/357 way back in the mid 70s. My standard load was 12.5 grains with an RCBS 150 grain cast bullet. it always shot well out of my Smith but when I went to use it in the Marlin it was all over the place. That was at .357 dia though. I have not tried it at .359 although I will be doing just that next week.

I wonder how Lil' Gun would work in the 32-20? Not for pistols mind you but for my browning M53. 2400 does not give the best groups in that gun.

omgb
08-11-2006, 10:30 AM
Naw, i'm not saying you should use a lighter load. The 10.4 grain load was what I started with when I had just a few test bullets to tork with. It gave such phenominal accuracy that I just had to tell you about it.:bigsmyl2: I fully intend to try your 12.5 load. last year, while in Bozeman MT, I found 2400 at a rediculous price, something like $12.00 a lb so I bought several canisters. I will be trying Lil Gun just as soon as I use up the 2400. It's accuracy I want though, not speed so if Lil Gun doesn't work out it's back to the 2400 for me.

Rangerone
08-11-2006, 10:36 AM
I agree... we should always built upon accuracy, not velocity...

It is like the old "DVC' concept, Speed, Power and Accuracy. All are equally important, any one without the other two can be fatal...

imashooter2
08-11-2006, 11:28 AM
The spring kits will make a lot of difference, but you can get the same results by modifying the springs you have. See the post in the gunsmithing section for the link to Marauder's instructions.