View Full Version : Star lubrisizer question
seagiant
08-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Hi,
I've been watching the E-bay sales of the older original Star lubers and these things are going for the same price as the new Magma star lubers? What gives? I have a Magma and a Phelps clone that both work well,are the old San Diego stars more desirable for some reason? Thanks!
44woody
08-10-2006, 08:34 PM
Seagiant no it not that they are more valuable it a case of stupity people go into a state of mind (I call stupid state of mind )when biddine on ebay and another thing if you suport ebay and paypal you are suporting the people that want to take all our guns away from us :castmine: 44Woody
Well, if you listen to Paul Jones, the former salesman for Star, SAECO, Fitzs grips and ammo boxes etc. the older machines are much stronger and much better. So sez he. Now, I have one of each, a new Magma and an older San Diego Star. The castings are of different materials but the design is exactly the same and the function is the same and the dies are the same and they all interchange so you tell me. Why should anyone pay $185 for a used machine that may or may not need new parts while a new machine with a guarante is just $20 bucks more? I'll tell you why, it's because they are dumb $@#^s that's why.:drinks: Of course, I may be the dumb $#@^ and Mr. Jones may be right, but I doubt it. I can't tell the difference after several thousand rounds. IIRC, one of the professional casters can't find any difference either. I'll be danged if I can remember his handle though. He was located in W VA but moved about 16 months ago. I wrote to him a couple of years back about the same issue and he told me he could find no reason to buy an older Star over the new Magma. Ah! It was Creeker! There you go. That's my story and I'm stick'n to it.
Is this the same Paul Jones of Paul Jones Molds?
HTRN
No, the paul Jones of the moulds is located in LA and is in good health. The other Paul Jones is located in N California and is in poor health. One makes moulds, the other is a retired sales rep for SAECO/Star and a former LEO
Lloyd Smale
08-11-2006, 04:26 AM
I dont know if id even worry about part wear on the old ones. Mine has sized well over a million bullets without any breakage and most of the parts on a star are interchangable with the magma model and available from them
ron brooks
08-11-2006, 08:29 AM
44woody,
You mean the Democrats and the Republicans own eBay and Paypal? Who says they can't work together? :-)
omgb,
Don't hold back, tell us what you really think. :-) One of the reasons to get the old Stars is that they are made of cast, the new ones from aluminum. Now, it might not matter, but to some folks..... Me, I got an old one off of ebay, from someone on this site. I am happy with it and don't think it was a dumb thing to do.
Ron
Now Ron, I bought an old one off EBay a few years ago so I'm being kinda hypocritical when I call these guys dumb EXCEPT, that I paid $125 for mine and at that price, used was a good deal. Some guys are paying $180 and up for used machines and that IS kinda dumb unless one really values the cast body. Obviously, I don't. I simply can't see how it makes one lick of difference in perfomance or durability. That's what my rational mind says any way. Now, my emotional idiot side says the older machines are better. :veryconfu I can't defend that view nor can I explain it. It's just a wee nagging voice in the back of my brain that makes me want to bid on these older machines. Geez, I need another luber like I need a hole in my head and yet, I have to talk myself out of bidding each and every time. Tell me that's not a sign of idiocy :roll: Any way, that's my opinion and you know what folks say about opinions.:groner:
ron brooks
08-11-2006, 11:29 AM
omgb,
Fair enough. :-) TO me the older ones of cast iron is sort of like the old pre 64 Winchesters and the older Colts with forged instead of cast parts. Do the newer ones work ? yep, are they as well made as the older ones? Well, now ummm.....:-)
I wonder how many herre would pay ne rifle price for a pre 64 Winnchester Model 70?
I also wonder how many flks even know that Magma makes the Star sizer. All people hear is that Star is out of business. Myself i don't think that Magma is doing a great job advertising the fact. I pretty much out of the loop though so I'm probably not a good judge of this.
Ron
The Star sizer suffers from the mechanical difficulty it takes to get them adjusted. The Lyman/RCBS/SAECO machines are easy. Pop in a die, add a nose punch, turn an adjusting nut a few times and bingo, you're set. The Star machine takes more fiddling including plugging un-needed holes etc. Now, once set, the Star machine cranks out bullets at many many many times the rate of the others. I also believe that it does a much better job of seating checks and when used nose first, a much better job of insuring eccentricity.
The other great weakness of the Star machine is the high cost of dies. Lyman dies are what, $18.00 new and $8.00 used? Star dies begin at $35.00 and even used ones rarely go for less than $25.00. True, you save on top punches if you size nose first. But the savings does not really offset the higher cost of the dies. If one casts many hundreds of bullets the Star is a huge bargain in saved time. But if the caster just drops 250 or so bullets every month or two, the Star machine is over-kill.
Now if Magma advertised and if the cost of the dies came down and if guys learned how to set the machines up more quickly, well, that might change a few things.
Jack Stanley
08-11-2006, 09:55 PM
The last luber I bought was a star and if I remember right , that was before E-pay was even thought of . When I was using a lot of lead bullets both of the Star's and RCBS presses were pretty much set and left with a die that covered a major need .
Getting a dies for the Star was an endeavor , the last one I tried as Star was being sold .
Jack
Denver
08-12-2006, 01:46 PM
Just how old would a Star sizer be that has a cast iron base casting? (I assume that's the part being discussed). I have two that I bought used and both have the aluminum base castings. Both are marked "Star Machine Works" San Diego. I've never seen one that is other than aluminum for the base.
:castmine:
That's a good point. I'll ask it over on the Star page and find out.
The base on my San Diego unit is aluminum. The lube reservoir is steel. My unit was made back in the late 60s. The frame is of a different material or manufacturing process between my old and new units. Both have aluminum bases.
Marshal Kane
08-12-2006, 11:13 PM
The Star sizer suffers from the mechanical difficulty it takes to get them adjusted. The Lyman/RCBS/SAECO machines are easy. Pop in a die, add a nose punch, turn an adjusting nut a few times and bingo, you're set. The Star machine takes more fiddling including plugging un-needed holes etc. Now, once set, the Star machine cranks out bullets at many many many times the rate of the others. I also believe that it does a much better job of seating checks and when used nose first, a much better job of insuring eccentricity.
The other great weakness of the Star machine is the high cost of dies. Lyman dies are what, $18.00 new and $8.00 used? Star dies begin at $35.00 and even used ones rarely go for less than $25.00. True, you save on top punches if you size nose first. But the savings does not really offset the higher cost of the dies. If one casts many hundreds of bullets the Star is a huge bargain in saved time. But if the caster just drops 250 or so bullets every month or two, the Star machine is over-kill.
Now if Magma advertised and if the cost of the dies came down and if guys learned how to set the machines up more quickly, well, that might change a few things.
Well I really don't mind plugging holes in a Star die as anyone with a punch and tack hammer can do it and Magma is more than happy to provide the instructions. Once it's done, it's done unless you have other bullets with more than X number of grease grooves to size. Then, it's easier to just purchase additional dies. Most of my dies are used ebay purchases and yes, they average $25 however it's just the cost of doing business if you own a Star. I'm not complaining about the cost when the sized and lubricated bullets come pouring out of the Star. Nose punches? Forget them as Magma recommends you size the bullets nose first so one universal punch is all you need. Pop in the already plugged die, add the universal punch, give the punch a few turns and bingo you're all set. What's not to like?
Yes the Star costs more than the other brands however it is also a commercial quality tool and with it you get reliability and longivity. If you could do better at a lower price can you also explain how Star(Magma) manages to stay in business? For those of you contemplating on purchasing a Star or Magma, NEVER pay more than the suggested retail price be it new and less if it is used. Just my dos centavos but I really think the Star is the best tool for lubricating and sizing bullets on the market.
rbwillnj
08-12-2006, 11:41 PM
I have four original Star Sizers, each one is a little different, and one is very very old. None of them have any cast iron. All have alumninum castings for everything except the the lube reservoir, the levers, the handle, and the two rods, all of which are steel, not cast iron.
I have not owned, a Magma Lubsizer, but everything I have seen on them says they are identical except that they use an O ring to seal the die in the base.
One of the aluminum castings on my oldest Star was broken. I ordered a replacement part from Magma, and it was identical to the broken part.
OMGB SAID: I wrote to him a couple of years back about the same issue and he told me he could find no reason to buy an older Star over the new Magma. Ah! It was Creeker!
Yes it was I............The home user will tell no difference in the old or new. Both will do a lifetime of bullets, no problem.
As for Paul Jones.............he's a salesman. I take nothing from him or add nothing to him. He is what he is and good at it.
I've sized and lubed at least 4 tons of bullets using both old and new models over the past years and find no real fault with either. If you're buying used, get the best buy. If you want new..... call Magma and rest assured you're not taking the back seat to any sizer I personally know of............Creeker
Swagerman
08-13-2006, 09:55 AM
It would seem reasonable that the newer Magma lube-sizer can do the same job as the old San Diego made ones, though I have never owned the Magma type...only the SD model.
Its the sizing die and punch that does the work, if everything is lined up properly it should function without fault.
What else could go wrong? The spring loaded plunger fails to squirt the lube into the die holes...doubt that very much.
Actually they both seem to do the same function exactly.
Therefore, the dummies on ebay are paying too much for some of the older models because its a bidding frenzy of one up manship. Has anyone ever seen a Magma lube-sizer on ebay. :mrgreen:
Jim
A friend let me have this one for $150 shipped from PA, it has all the extras and seven dies. Condition is practically like new.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/star-448-slubesizerpressanddies.jpg
I don't suppose you'd want to sell that .358 die?
Swagerman
08-13-2006, 11:43 AM
Thanks for the offer to buy the .358 die, but I'd better hang onto these pieces until I get too helpless to reload, which shouldn't be too far down the road the way things are going for me.
I recently broke my left foot which has effected my knee and lower leg somewhat, don't know if it will heal up properly because of my age...it is giving me a lot of trouble since the 4th of July.
I still can't walk or stand on it without severe pain. :roll:
I was able to acquire another sizing die in .430 diameter from a guy on ebay, got it fairly reasonable in price...so, now have eight sizing dies in total.
Jim
I would much rather buy a new die than see your health decline[smilie=2: I was just thinking that if it weren't a caliber you use..... Any way, thanks for the reply and take it easy.
unny, I recently hurt my shoulder and the treatment called for an injection of steroids. I had no idea how much arthritic pain I'd been carrying around in my hips and hands until that shot. Dang man! I felt 20 again. Too bad that stuff had nasty side effects or I'd be juicing every day. There is no doubt about it, youth is wasted on the young.:drinks:
StarMetal
08-13-2006, 01:48 PM
omgb,
wow, steroids, you'll look like Arnold..think about, then you can make movies, be governor of a state, cool man.
There was a young kid that worked me at one job I had in Colorado. He was lifting weights and taking steroids. He had just gotten married too. Well didn't take long to get around, that he was beating his wife, a side effect of the steroids from what I heard. I liked him, he was a good young fellow at heart. Told him to get off the Steroids, he did. Things got better then.
Wonder how much you can take without getting bad side effects. Or is it more a time lapse thing?
Joe
I don't know about how long it takes. The Doc told me one shot a year was safe but only for a few years. It adds up. Guys doing this every day are killing themselves by the minute. The stuff they shot in me was not a testoterone steroid, it was cortisone. It won't build muscle but it sure cuts inflamation. It also can calcify tendons, harden joints, cause problems in the colon and ruin kidneys etc. The long term use of it does not lead to a pretty end or so I've been told.
Swagerman
08-13-2006, 02:58 PM
Quote:
It also can calcify tendons, harden joints, cause problems in the colon and ruin kidneys etc. The long term use of it does not lead to a pretty end or so I've been told.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Man, I'm already suffering from all the above and never took one of them Steroids.
My prostrate and colon are out of warranty and not working well. :mrgreen:
But getting old ain't for sissies.
Funny about todays drugs they want to peddle, the side effects scare the hell out of a person. But the doctors are hip to the kick-back for rewards for prescribing such witches brews...and they just don't give a damn.
Jim
rbwillnj
08-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Gee, Who would have thought I could learn so much about steroids on Cast Boolets.
But Speaking of Star Lubsizers. For the most part, I don't think the Ebay Stars are such a bad deal. They seem to go for about $180 including one die and punch. The same thing from Magma would be $242, since they don't include the die and punch in their price. If the ebay Stars were old and worn out, the Magma would be the better deal, but I have yet to encounter a Star that was worn out. I have seen some that were broken, and their condition was obvious, but I have never seen one that was worn out.
Of course, if you keep a look out, there are always deals to be had. I have four Stars, and the most I have paid was $110.
ANeat
08-13-2006, 06:44 PM
One thing about Magma is there are times when they are backordered on the Star/Magma sizers. Sometimes 6 to 8 weeks. So then its either any of the gun related sites or Ebay or wait.
Adam
ron brooks
08-14-2006, 11:04 AM
Well, doggonit, I knew there was a c ast iron part on the old one that was aluminum on the newer ones. If you pick one a San Diego Star for less than a Magma Star, good for you. I've done it and am quite pleased. I keep hearing the siren call of the bullet feeder and the pnemeutic <sp?> lube ffed. Nope, I don't need it but the viedo of them working is sure cool. :)
Ron
Springfield
08-14-2006, 02:20 PM
I have a bullet feeder on one of my Stars(the new one, which works exactly like the 2 old ones) It is a great deal for me as I size a thousand at a time, about 20 thousand a month, more or less. Some say it is just as fast to size without the feeder, and maybe so, but I doubt it. For me, I like to inspect the bullets as they go into the feeder tubes, plastic tubes that I got from TAP Plastics, that hold 25 bullets each. Then when I am sizing I don't have to look at them, just crank out the bullets. It certainly FEELS faster, and it works better for me. As for the pneumatic luber accessory, it seems like a good idea but I am going to try and make my own, it just doesn't seem that difficult. Until then turning the handle every 25 rounds isn't that much of a hardship. I just turn it when I replace the bullet feeder tube, works out fine.
I use the bullet feed & pneumatic lube feed. Both work great. I have a collator to feed the bullets into the tube also. I use a lubed bullet in the tubes to lube the upper part of the die. I find a 1 to 10 ratio to work.
When doing the Keith's for Dry Creek I caught each bullet as it fell from the die, it rolled in my hand to insure complete lube, and from there into a plastic bin.
For my own use I feed bullets by hand and let them drop into a box. The luber misses complete lube seldom and I'm not a picky as customers. HEE HEE
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