Crud & Whiska's

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Howdy All!

I got a new RSBS the other day from Midway, a 270-150 SP, I washed in hot soapy water, scrubbed it with a tooth brush too! I noticed it still had some crud in it, so I got the brake cleaner out, and sprayed, and sprayed, scrubbed, and sprayed, got most of it out . . .

I used some Lee 6 cavity handles that I ground a tad off for my other RCBS mold I have, and they went on hard . . . but they are on there.

I get whiskers on the very nose, do you think that there is a tiny bit of crud on the mold still, or maybe I need to take the handles off, and grind them a tad more?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP2.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP1.jpg

Now that I blow up the picture, I can see they don't look so good!
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP3.jpg

What do you think?

[excess650]

Those whiskers may be from too deep vent lines, too hot alloy, too much tin, too little antimony, or too much head pressure if pressure casting.

You may be able to partially fill those particular vents with some mold prep.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

It was kinda hot, I had just gotten done with my AL six cav from MiHec . . . not much tin at all, maybe 1% . . .

[357maximum]

Things I would try in order of the K.I.S.S principle.


1. try chilling your melt temp a bit

2. Move your mould farther from the lead source

3. relieve your handles so they a free

4.take a piece of brass and thump both alignment pins in a very small small skosh

[RayinNH]

My RCBS 7mm-168-SP does the whisker thing if cast too hot. I get 4-5 per side though. That's a good idea using the mold prep to clog the vent lines a bit...Ray

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I'm ladle pouring these, but I'll go and pull the handles, as they don't "swing free" when open, in other words they are pretty tight on the handles and don't really pivot on the pin.

I may have time tomorrow, but first thing I need to go try out these:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/MiHec359-14038spl.jpg

I made these this afternoon . . . the wind picks up fairly early, last few days it has been about 7am!

[gray wolf]

Could be my eyes or the Pics, but it looks like enough lead on the end of that perhaps there could be some on the block face. Look at Pic # 3, the left hand side of the block near the bullet nose. Is that a speck of lead ? The vent lines don't look all that clean.
Perhaps it's just the pics. but worth a look Eh.

[WallyM3]

It seems to me that if the handles are tight and the mould halves are not free to swing under their own weight, then they would prevent the blocks from self-aligning.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I got to cleaning it up some more, and I ground down the handle to fit, so they pivot now, so . . . I decided to crank up the pot!

I kept letting it get cooler, and cooler, but still no help, just made rejects:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP4.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP5.jpg

If the first batch looked frosted, these sure aren't!

You may be right there graywolf, Let me take a few pictures of that area, and see what we can see, my eyes aren't what they used to be!


[smilie=s:

[WallyM3]

Can you post some shots of the seams? Looks like the upper half has a gap issue. Maybe some schmutze in there.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Can you post some shots of the seams? Looks like the upper half has a gap issue. Maybe some schmutze in there.

OK, give me a few min . . .

But here is the mold, hot of the press:

Sprue side:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP6.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP7.jpg

And otherside:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP8.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS270-150SP9.jpg

Edit to add:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS2.jpg

[WallyM3]

From the pictures that you just posted, I'd say that unless there was a warp in one or the other blocks, there must be a high spot somewhere on the faces.

I don't see anything, but maybe a gentle stoning with a hard Arkansas might reveal something.

Lovely mould, BTW.

[357maximum]

4.take a piece of brass and thump both alignment pins in a very small small skosh


Remove the block that contains the alignment PINS and lay it on a firm wooden surface pins facing up.

then

Gently tap a brass rod with a hammer driving each alignment pin into the blocks a smidgeon..you may have to hit the rod harder than you think, but start off gentle. I think I can see the hangup on your last pics.......and have seen it happen more than once.

[WallyM3]

In the next to the last pic, is that a ding in the pin? (right around 9 o'clock)

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I took it out this morning and brake cleaned and brushed it a bunch! Starting to look like a real mold now! (Still some crud in the actual cavity I can see now!)

Here are some other angles:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS3.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS4.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS6.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS5.jpg

Last night before casting that second batch I took some 600 grit sand paper and laid it down on a piece of aluminum plate, and lightly sanded the faces of both sides, I now can see a light spot (like I took off a "high spot") on #3 & #4, on the right cavity on the right side near the nose . . .

357 I think I may try to take some 600 grit paper and "smooth up" the pins, if that don't work. I may get the hammer out!

Wally I use to live over in Springfield, VT! Yes looks like this mold should work well, It has been touted as being a good one, unfortunatley there are few to pick from in the 270 caliber . . .

[Maven]

Shawn, Two additional suggestions: (1) Take a new/clean .30cal. bore brush, chuck it it an elec. drill and rotate it at moderate speed in each cavity for ~30secs. (The brush can be dry or wetted with your favorite solvent/cleaning agent.) (2) When the cavities are clean and dry, bring the mold up to temperature, then smoke each cavity with wooden matches. This should end your problems. Btw, before you attempt to reset the pins, measure their protrusion with a [dial indicating] caliper, then reset to the smaller (?) dimension (trial & error here).

[sundog]

I like Maven's first. Instead of the brush, you can opt for spinning a boolit in the cavity with some polishing agent/very fine abrasive. A light smoke from a wooden match is always a crowd pleaser on a stubborn mould.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

So will smoke stop the whiskers? I always thought that smoke was a type of mold release, and these wanna drop as soon as I separate the halves.

I like the idea of the brass brush . . . so many ideas!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Shawn,
Btw, before you attempt to reset the pins, measure their protrusion with a [dial indicating] caliper, then reset to the smaller (?) dimension (trial & error here).

I just measured them with a micrometer . . . and one is .7852 and the other is .7871! So one is out just a "Whiska"!

The pin on the top in last picture is the high one.

[dragonrider]

I have had molds do this exact same thing. Cleaning and heat helped some but was not the complete answer. Once I lapped the cavities the problem went away. IMHO this mold is a prime candidate for lapping.

[excess650]

I have had molds do this exact same thing. Cleaning and heat helped some but was not the complete answer. Once I lapped the cavities the problem went away. IMHO this mold is a prime candidate for lapping.

Lapping will get the crud out of the cavities. I would try JB Bore cleaner, or chrome polish, but nothing more aggressive unless I wanted to try and alter the "as cast" size, OR, if the bullets were out of round.

I definitely wouldn't use a bore brush unless it was nylon.

If the mold currently casts the size you want, just put mold prep on the surfaces other than the cavities. It may take several applications to partially fill the vent lines, but then either stone the faces, or use 600grit paper on a flat surface to remove the mold prep from between the blocks.

Driving the locating pins is a good idea if the sockets are worn, or if the blocks can be moved when closed.

[Maven]

Shawn, Lots of substances can be used to polish the cavities, but ordinary toothpaste or a slurry of Bon Ami and oil smeared on a few CB's (Don't mix up the cavities they come from.) works very well, as does white auto rubbing compound.

[WallyM3]

I see that high spot you refer to at the top of the r cavity. At least that's out of play as a suspect.

'Bout an hour WSW of Springfield.

It does seem that there are fewer choices for the 270, which is odd given the cartridges popularity.

[357maximum]

I just measured them with a micrometer . . . and one is .7852 and the other is .7871! So one is out just a "Whiska"!

The pin on the top in last picture is the high one.

It is not a rare occurrance for a pin to be high, nor is it rare for an alignment hole to need a bit of a bevel.(your case mouth deburrer will fix that, but drive it in first) Hit it and see........you can always move it back. I firmly believe there is NO cavity issue here, just a simple case of a pin protruding a skosh too far. I keep a brass rod with a (divot) recess in the end just for this reason.....in the end it is YOUR mould, but I know what I would do. The fact that the whiskers were only on the nose was a real good indication early on in this thread.

[dragonrider]

The last picture in post #11 clearly show a cavity issue.The first three pictures in post #11 clearly show a cavity issue. The little fins he is getting maybe a pin issue but the wrinkles and voids cerrtainly are not.

[357maximum]

The last picture in post #11 clearly show a cavity issue.The first three pictures in post #11 clearly show a cavity issue. The little fins he is getting maybe a pin issue but the wrinkles and voids cerrtainly are not.

We are in disagreement, and that is OK. What I am saying is that when the pin issue is fixed the rest of the ISSUES will disappear. There is no cavity issues IMHO, just some stuff that shows up on super close high quality pictures.

The wrinkles and voids are the result of his casting too cool trying to prevent the fins............that is MY OPINION and if it were my mould the pins would have been popped in already as I stated earlier.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Wow, lots of response while I was out shooting in the wind!:Fire:

Just to clarify . . . post #11 shows boolits that were cast at a low temp, and that is the reason for the "rejects" as I was trying to elimanate the casting too hot idea.

I'm not real concerned with the cavities, for right now anyways, but would like to get a shave and a haircut!

I just measured them . . . . .2770 on the seam and .2743 the other way! So I may need to lap it any ways . . . wow!

[dragonrider]

Yes I agree that we disagree, and that's fine. About the pins I agree there is a problem but that won't clean the cavities and they need cleaning, and the easiest and quickest way to do that is to lap them. 30 seconds in each cavity with some 600 grit valve lapping compound should do it, it won't alter the shape of the cavities at all.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Well . . . I buffed up the one "high" pin with 600 grit paper . . . smoked it . . . still does it . . . cast about 75 - 80 of them.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS11.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/RCBS10.jpg

But I got to thinking . . . :groner: So I measured them about 20 of them, and came up with two sizes:
#1 is .2770 on the seam and .2743 the other way
#2 is .2788 on the seam and .2762 the other way

If they both were .278X279 I'd just run them through a sizer . . .

Obviously they are both different sizes, and appear to be out of round too. . . I'm thinking two things . . .
1. Is there a alloy that will get these fatter? Or will it need to be "Lee-mented"?
2. Tell RCBS to fix it

[excess650]

I wouldn't be happy with that mold. .002"+ out of round isn't acceptable, IMO, for a not so inexpensive mold, and that would be reason to send it back. The whiskers could be dealt with if it cast reasonably round.

[357maximum]

Call RCBS they will do you right. You will likely NOT have to TELL them to fix it, they will just do it, if you politely tell them about the issue.

[Suo Gan]

Don't send the mold back yet. Based on what I see it is probably your alloy and casting technique. Verdict...too much tin...too cold mold=fins and out of roundness.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Yes 357, I've had good dealings with RCBS.

Post #3 says Hot temps, and 1% tin . . .

Post #9 & 11 are all poured cold on purpose . . .

Post # 27 says that we eliminated the "hot" idea. . .

I just measured the first batch, and there are the same as the third batch. (I re-melted the second batch)

[runfiverun]

dude knock the pin in.
you have a beagled mold and thats the issue here.

[BCall]

I don't think the pins an issue when his castings are measuring .277-.278 along the seams and only .274-.276 away from the seams. Seems to me when a mold is supposed to cast .277-.278 and it is beagled it would be measuring more than .277 away from the seams, not smaller than.277. I'd personally send the mold back as the boolits are too small for .277 away from the seams and you still have alot of flashing. If you beagled it you could get the dimensions up to .277+ away from the seams, but the flashing might get worse. I'd send it back. Unless Suo Gan is right and there is an error in your alloy or technique somewhere. JMO, Billy

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Alloy is about 70% ww, 29% recovered range lead (mostly jacketed) and 1% tin . . . my other molds don't do this . . .

They are different dimensions also . . .

I'm gonna call them tomorrow.

[justingrosche]

I may be getting in on this discussion a little late, but after reading your first posting I think you may have inadvertently named your problem. You said that you ground down some Lee 6 banger handles to fit, and they fit tight. Any chance the handles aren't letting the mold fully shut? Could it be that simple?
Justin

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Post #9 first line . . . I ground them down some more, the pivot now, they also work on my other RCBS mold.


[smilie=s:

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

Called RCBS today, Larry told me out of round tolerance is .001", and he is sending me a new one! doesn't even want the old one back! I Should have it in a few days.

He also told me that the "crud" is a deposit of the oil preservative, as it gets old, it hardens up, he recommended cleaning with brake cleaner and a tooth brush (I'll have to use my wife's when she is not looking!):wink:

He also told me how to correctly measure a boolits diameter . . . first measure across from the seams, second measure right next to the seam, but not on it, third measure on the other side of the seam, kinda forming an "X" with the last two measurements.

Mine measure .2756, .2766, .2776 and the other cavity is .2743, .2754, .2764 so something funky is going on . . . I may try to use valve lapping compound and open them both up to .2785

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

I got the new mold a few days ago . . . and a box of Muddy Creek Sam's lead 95/2.5/2.5 and tried out the new mold today!

If I keep the heat down it leaves just a hint of a whisker now . . ., but at least these are fairly round!, a tad small for my liking, wish they were another .0007 fatter . . . give me room for my sizer to work . . .

Here is what they look like:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/4.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/3.jpg

But I'm not sure why there is a difference in sizes . . . the majority are close to .278, but some are lacking . . . here is a list of randomly pulled boolits . . . I first measured opposite the seam, then rolled it toward me till just before the seam, then just after the seam . . .
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/5.jpg

Do you think it is a temp thing? or is it a cavity thing/ (like one is under sized, and I just happened to pick up fewer of those?

The bottom two are actually the same boolit, measured with different micrometers, the majority were measured with a Starret, and the last was a Mitutoyo.

So . . . what do you think?

[excess650]

I'm thinkin' you have a difference from one cavity to the other. You could mark the cavities, or at least one of them with a small punch mark or just a scratch, preferably near the point where its closer to center.

If you want them larger, use some of your existing bullets as laps and charge them with a lapping compound. IIRC, by the time you get the blue color out of the cavities, you've taken .0005" or so (half of one thousandth). If you're careful, you can make them round, and they will almost jump out of the mold.