Dies, lining up in a progressive???

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Morn'in reloaders,

I am an Ol'reloader starting back in the 60s, but new to the use of a progressive.

I have found I do have a learning curve here, but am getting faster and smoother and even though maybe a bit slow yet, this is waaaaay faster then the single stage press.

Last week, I finished setting up my RCBS .38/.357 CARBIDE dies in my Hornady LNL progressive, and find there is an issue with smooth case feeding into the dies.

Have already loaded .44mag, 45acp & .40S&W

This requires movement of the case mouth - by hand - at times to get the case mouth to feed into the die.

I realise this is due to the required tolerence between the moveable shell plate and the base plate which does not hold the case in the alignment of the typical single stage shell holder.

I also realise that during the usage of the single stage press, my fingers were manytimes on the case to help guide the case mouth into the die.

Really seems like the dies need a wider opening and longer taper at the die mouth.

I have contacted RCBS, and they say to send the dies back with some fired cases.

I also contacted Hornady this morning about the situation.

Any thoughts on a solution here?

Any, "you should have bought this or that instead of Hornady" are not needed or wanted.

I have the Hornady LNL, like it, don't plan to change, and just need to work through this glitch.

Thanks,

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[AZ-Stew]

This is why I use Lyman and Dillon carbide dies in my Dillon RL-550. I tried the RCBS dies and the cases always hung up on the sizing die entrance. Can't tell you how to fix it. The die mouth size is set by the manufacturer. If I recall, the RCBS carbide sizer die mouth is more of a taper than a radius. Maybe RCBS will send you a new sizer with a radius.

Regards,

Stew

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks AZ-Stew,

I remember back to a friend saying he sent RCBS dies back so they would work on his Dillon.

In the reply back from RCBS, they say they can't open up the mouth of the carbide die, so maybe it would need to be a replacement.

They - RCBS - have been very good to me over the years on a number of different things.

The dies I have bought recently are Hornady, and they have not had any issues on the progressive.

I'm wondering if I should just order a new set of Hornady .38/.357 dies and save back or move along the made in "82" set.

Will see what shows up here, and what Hornady has to say.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[zdogk9]

The RCBS dies can be fiddly in the L&LAP I've found that if I play with the indexing pawls I can eliminate the problem with 10mm and .45 ACP which are what I reload on this machine. I'm told that a can of blue paint will make it work much better, but I'd just stick with adjusting your indexing. A SMOOTH stroke on the handle works wonders too.

[flinchnjerk]

Hmmmm... does this happen at random in any of the shellplate's five shell recesses, or only in one specific recess?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Even'in flinchnjerk,

Much of the .38 brass I have had already been partly batch processed on the single stage press, so there for I do not have the carbide sizing die in place, just the expander and the seater.

I did start with the sizer in place for some cases which were not part of the batch processed brass, so it also seemed like there was some hang ups on the sizer.

But now, with the brass already sized I am just seeing the problem at the seating station.

I am planning on hanging on with the RCBS dies until I hear from Hornady, and will possibly just order a new set of Hornady dies.

I have no problems with the set of Hornady .40S&W and 45acp dies.

Not sure what RCBS would have in mind is I send those dies back. They are fine dies, just not working on the progressive.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[jmorris]

You might double check that you have the correct shell plate, you can check the amount of “wiggle” against your other shell plates/calibers. Dies that work well on progressive presses generally have a chamfer where the case enters the die.

[GeneT]

Dillon dies are the best for progressives, but they sacrifice some of the full length sizing. They're great for .45, but on your .40 you're really going to want to fully size those, particularly if you pick up range brass. My solution was to go to Dillon dies, but for .40 I pre-size using a CasePro roller sizer. (You could use one of the push-thru sizers as well).

If you're up to modifying your press, the Dillon 1050 uses a spike that sticks down from the toolhead that skewers a matching hole in the shellplate - this aligns the shell plate precisely with the dies. I reckon that concept could be adapted to other presses.

GsT

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks guys, good tips.

With the Hornady .40S&W and .45acp dies I have, seems things work A-OK!

As indicated a post or so ago, I think I will wait until I hear from the Hornady tech people before I make a move, but the die replacement may be the way to go and just save sell the RCBS dies.

Thanks.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[flinchnjerk]

The next time that you have a problem... any station.... mark the recess in which the offending cartridge is situated... masking tape, felt pen... and see if the problem - at whatever station - only occurs with a hull that's in that particular recess. I suspect that Hornady had a run of mismachined #6 shellplates.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaha!

I finished up loading, for now, the 38s and then spent some time looking over the verious handgun dies on hand, 44/44mag, 38/357mag, 45acp all RCBS, and .40S&W/10mm, a Hornady die set.

The 38/357 is the oldest set, -1982- and shows a marked difference in the die opening on the seating die. The opening has very little relief/taper at the opening when compaired to the other RCBS dies, something which has changed on the newer 44/44mag and 45acp dies.

I would suspect this is due to greatly increased use of progressive presses since the 38/357 dies were cut.

The Hornady dies of course have a different design on their seating dies, both for handgun and rifle, and as such have a great deal more room at the seating die mouth.

The 38/357 carbide sizing die appears to have a touch less radius at the mouth when compaired to the new dies, but the troublesome seating die is so tight, a case mouth which is slightly over flaired could prevent that case from entering the seating die.

Think I will wait a bit longer before making the choice about sending the old set back to RCBS.

They have been very good to me and would expect them to correct or replace this die set.

However, I am really liking the Hornady dies and think I will wait to see what the Hornady tech people suggest.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Lloyd Smale]

I had the same problem with one of my lnls. Get the timing right and any die will work. Ive got rcbs dillon and hornady 45acp die sets and the hornady is by far the most forgiving. The dillon doesnt have much more flare to it then the rcbs does.

[mike in co]

and redding makes a set of dies called "pro" that are designed for progessive presses.

just what you mentioned..a wider mouth.....
sorta like dillons

on the dillon press you can reduce case movement by reducing the shell plate clearance when you install it.....no idea on yours

mike in co

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!

Just received word back from Hornady this morning, and it is as I suspected it might be.

According to Hornady, because of the much increased use of progressives, die makers ARE opening up the mouth of the dies to allow for ease of case entry and lining up.

My newer dies DO reflect this trend!

As my last post indicated, the seating die on this 1982 set of RCBS dies has an opening just barely larger then the flaired case mouth, with the transition from die base to die mouth being almost a square shoulder.

So, will check the net a bit and decide if I need to send these dies back or just order a new set of Hornady dies.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot