Glocks & Lead, Constructive Suggestions PLEASE!

[tech413]

Hey all, I know this is like beating a dead horse, but I know it has been done with success by some.

I have 2 Glcok 17's that I want to try to shoot lead from and I was looking for some input. I know some have done it without a problem and I want to know what you guys use. Everyone else says it doesn't work and it's a bad idea, but how many have actually attempted it?

The mold I am using is the Lee 356-125-2R.

I have slugged both barrels, one measures .355" and the other .3555" so I was thinking a .356" die for my star. Any suggestions on sizing?

As for hardness, I have a tester but haven't used it much yet. I was thinking WW would work, but I don't have much experience with playing with hardness, what do you guys think?

Lastly, powder, I have read that it is best to use a slow burning powder to shoot lead from Glocks. For those of you that do it, what powders do you use. I don't plan on pushing these bullets too fast, I'm mostly just plinking anyhow.

I want to try this and I am just looking for helpfull and constructive information. I know some will post and says it won't work or it's a bad idea, but I figure no harm in trying. If I can't do it without leading, I will buy barrels, but I know it can be and has been done. Any help you guys can give me would be great.

Sorry about the long post and THanks in advance,
Adam

[LowPE]

I have shot many thousands of rounds out of a glock 26 and glock 30. All my cast, bhn around 12, lubed with both lee alox and a variety of stick lubricants. No problems.

My 9mm are sized to 356. My 45s are just lee alox and sized only by the lee fcd.

I use primarily unique or blue dot.

[ErikT]

Good to know. I am also looking to shoot cast through my Glock .45, and was wondering how to get good results. There seem to be a lot of "experts" who haven't tried it themselves, but know someone who knew someone whose roomate's brother's ex-girlfriend's study partner blew his Glock apart trying cast boolits. It's nice to hear results from someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

Erik.

[chris in va]

If it's anything like my Kahr, you'll want to scrub out that barrel every 100 rounds or so. Mine gets leaded like crazy.

[anachronism]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=33855

[82nd airborne]

i have two glocks, 40 and 45 and i only put j words in them when i cc. the 40 has had countles rounds thru it and ive never had a problem. there is no common sense argument as to why they woulndt work. theyll shoot underwater for petes sake!

[AnthonyB]

Chris in VA:
You are doing it wrong. Where are you in VA? If you are in Northern VA, drop me a PM.
Tony

[miestro_jerry]

I have a variety of Glocks, the ammo I carry is the ammo I practice with, so all of them shoot Jacketed bullets. I do the same with my J frame and a couple other pistols. Then I have many others I shoot cast bullets in them.

Recently there has been some reports of G21 coming apart with certain European ammo that PDs have been using for practice ammo. The FBI is investigating this situation, so we may never hear what they find out. This happened with the Marshall County, W.V. Sheriff's department, one sergeant has a sore hand.

I do as I have been told and never had a problem. The H.K. P7s have a similar barrel geometry, so the same warning is given with them.

This discussion has been going on for at least 8 years on various forums that I can remember.

Jerry

[deerslayer]

Good to know. I am also looking to shoot cast through my Glock .45, and was wondering how to get good results. There seem to be a lot of "experts" who haven't tried it themselves, but know someone who knew someone whose roomate's brother's ex-girlfriend's study partner blew his Glock apart trying cast boolits. It's nice to hear results from someone who actually knows what they're talking about!

Erik.

I have shot thousands through my glock 21 45 ACP it is laying beside me right now with cast in it. I size to .452 and use whatever lead I can get my hands on mostly about 60% ww and 40% pure mix. But I used straight WW and no problems. I have never had a leading issue with it at all.

Currently I am shooting a lee 200 grn rnfp at 1.156 OAL. I typically use Unique 5.8 grns or red dot 3.8 grns with that boolit. I have also used 200 grn swc and the BD45's that a friend had also. Never any leading.

I actually shot 1000 through it at one time without cleaning to see if it would lead and it did not. I typically clean after each shooting session and that is it. They even group better than factory ammo at least for me. There will be those that say it can't be done but there were those that said you can't put a man on the moon.

If I can help PM me. As for other calibers I can not comment but I know the .45 will work. Thanks Nate

[HammerMTB]

You're on the right track.
I have shot many rounds of cast boolits thru my Glocks. I have a 20 and a 29, and shoot both 10MM brass and at times .40Short & Weak. It all runs thru there like nobody's biz-niss
You need to get the right dia. boolit for your bbl. You're following that. You may find the Lee mold will drop boolits you don't even need to size. That saves a step.
I use .001" over boolits, and LLA. LLA saves me a lot of time over using my 450 Lyman lube-sizer.
I have found that plain old ACWW are plenty hard enough. If I shoot a 300 round match, I will end up with a very small bit of lead in the bbl, that comes out without too much trouble. If I think of it before I go home, I will shoot 2-3 j-word boolits thru the gun and strip the lead right out.
You are well on your way to cheap, plentiful ammo! :cbpour:


This thread has info you may want to further investigate. If you think you can readily have ZERO leading all the time, you should read this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86672
While I admit you can certainly attain that at least some of the time, you will have to decide whether it is worth your time and trouble or not. Slight leading that does not affect accuracy is acceptable to me, and the thread above shows that is common to many.

[Just Call Me...G]

Hi Adam,

It's always a good idea to see how others have faired before you entertain any endeavor.
Yes, this whole Glock/cast boolit conundrum has been around for A LONG time and everyone has their opinion.

Here is my experience and definitely YMMV...
About 15 years ago I decided to buy my first Glock ever and I decided on the GLK 20...I wanted a handgun that I could EDC and use as a travel companion whilst off in the boonies of wild Nevada. I really like the 10mm and had a ready access of fairly inexpensive practice and defensive ammo (I worked in the firearms industry, wholesale sales, and bought cases at cost).

My break-in routine is the same for all of my handguns, shoot 500 total in one sitting and cleaning in between every 100th round. When I broke in the GLK 20, the only practice ammo that was available to me was Federal American Eagle (I believe they were 180 gr. lead TC). During the cleaning portion I did notice some leading and I did have "J" word bullets, I started running a mag after I shot the 90th round or so. Now I have a friend who says that running "J" bullets after shooting boolits is malarkey, we are entitled to our opinions...they seem to have reduced my bit of leading that I experienced during break-in.

My Glock did not blow up and it was an exercise in boredom how efficiently it ran.

I still have that same handgun and carry it with me a lot, I cast the Lee 175gr. TC, lube it with my proprietary lube, shoot it regularly at ~ 1200fps...primarily using Universal, but I also like AA 5 and Bullseye. It has never once faltered.

That being said, it has had some modifications...
The first, and I ALWAYS recommend this to Glock shooters, is getting rid of that piece of **** guide rod, sights replaced with Trijicons and lastly about 10 years ago I got a smoking deal on a KKM barrel. I did not install the KKM because of the polygonal rifling issue...my issue is that I am a handloader and I do not care for an unsupported chamber. I REALLY cannot remember the last time that I ACTUALLY purchased 10mm ammo and from the looks of it I am very glad that I started reloading those 15 years ago.

Since my experience with the GLK 20 was so good over the years I have also acquired a GLK 21 and a GLK 17...and I purchased a .40 SW barrel for my GLK 20. I pretty much have all the calibers I shoot in the Glock platforms covered (and throw in the Advantage Arms GLK20/21 conversion kit to boot!) :-)

I cast for all of my Glocks, I like the Lee TC molds for 9mm(356-120-TC), .40/10mm(401-175-TC) and .45(452-230-TC). I size to .356, .401 and .452...respectively.
As stated above I like Universal, AA 5 and Bullseye...I don't care for Blue-Dot as shooting in Nevada wind I have found that sometimes I'll get powder residue back at me. I have used Unique as well, with good results.
I use straight WWs and water-quench...lube, size, load and go shoot.

I started all of my Glocks out with their factory barrels and eventually switched over to KKMs.
I have all of the factory barrels in the tupperware and would not hesitate for a moment to throw them back in the guns and shoot anything through them.

My $0.02

Keep The High Ground,


G

[tech413]

Thanks for all the great info guys, I will be trying this soon, I'll update this thread when I do.

[mooman76]

I did it in my Glock 22. The 40 cal is probubly the worst because of the pressure. I stuck to moderate-midrange loads and use bullets of proper size. Watch for leading often at least until you know you're on track and keep your loads from top end and you should be ok. I usually shot as dropped bullets, both water dropped and air cooled.

[GeneT]

If you're shooting a .40 Glock, with cast or jacketed, you can buy yourself a whole lot of peace of mind (and make your resizing easier) by replacing the Glock barrel with a conventionally-rifled, full chamber support barrel. I bought a Lone Wolf - drops right in, no issues. I shoot cast through my G21 (factory barrel) with no problems, but I don't shoot much through it, so it's not a great data point. No abnormal fouling yet.

GsT

[cptinjeff]

I've shot plenty of cast thru my G21. However, a couple of years ago I started shooting some USPSA with it and "had" to buy a lone wolf bbl as every time I would go to shoot and someone would see my cast ammo it would be a discussion. Now they see my ammo AND after market bbl and now we can talk about how pityfull my performance was and not how I'm endangering everyone within the county shooting cast in my Glock. I've bowed to PC:violin:

[Alex Hamilton]

If it's anything like my Kahr, you'll want to scrub out that barrel every 100 rounds or so. Mine gets leaded like crazy.

The primary cause of leading is gas cutting! High pressure gas rips molecules of lead off the boolit sides and deposits them in the bore in front of the boolit, where they get ironed in by the passing projectile.

Most common cause is that the boolit is too small for the bore and it allows high pressure gas to blow past it. But it can also be caused by the torque imparted by the lands, where alloy wears at the leading edge of the lands and the gaps beging to appear at the trailing edges, where gas cutting occurs.

Leading is a kiss of death to accuracy and there is no such thing as "just a little leading"! The only good load is one that does not lead at all.

What kind of powder are you using and how much? What is the muzzle velocity of your loads? Have you slugget the barrel of your gun and what is the groove size? What do you use for boolit alloy? What size are your boolits?

Reply to these questions and I might be able to help you.

Regards,

Alex

[HammerMTB]

there is no such thing as "just a little leading"! The only good load is one that does not lead at all.

Regards,

Alex

I beg to differ, Alex.
While we may mince words all to pieces, there most certainly is such a thing as "just a little leading"
When after several hundred rounds I get just a few flecks of lead while cleaning, it is "just a little"
If "the only good load" is one that doesn't lead at all, then evidently there are a lot of poor loaders here who get mild or modest leading after extended shooting sessions.

[truckmsl]

I've shot many thousands of my cast boolits through my glock 35 stock barrel in .40 without any problems whatsoever.

[bohokii]

i shoot lead in my glock 21 and imi baby eagle .45

i heard its not good to do that in polygonal rifling so i bought replacement barrels for both and have been just fine so far

i figure the cost of a replacement barrel was cheaper than hearing i told you so by everybody

not that a replacement barrel wont blow http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/22kb.jpg

[Alex Hamilton]

I beg to differ, Alex.
While we may mince words all to pieces, there most certainly is such a thing as "just a little leading"
When after several hundred rounds I get just a few flecks of lead while cleaning, it is "just a little"
If "the only good load" is one that doesn't lead at all, then evidently there are a lot of poor loaders here who get mild or modest leading after extended shooting sessions.
Well, if you are happy with the accuracy and the leading does not accumulate, I'd leave it at that. I have a 357Mag. Winchester underlever, which I shoot regularly in competitions and I have not cleaned the barrel since I bought it in 1996. We are not allowed to own handguns in UK, so I now cast only for rifles. The velocities are close to 2000ft/sec and I have two loads that reach 2200ft/sec. I clean barrels only after I have shot jacketed bullets, which is not often. The longest I have not cleaned the barrel of my Enfield No.4 in 303Brit. is 2 years and when I did clean it there was no leading.

You are quite right in that there are many reloaders out there, probably the majority, that have problems with leading for various reasons, mostly because the bullets are not large enough to obturate effectively or because of overloading.

[HammerMTB]

We are not allowed to own handguns in UK


I think we're at the core of it now, aren't we?
The OP asked about leading in Glocks. I take it you've never shot one. Perhaps never even touched one.
Were I there, I'd be thinking it was time for another revolution....
But the topic in this thread is leading in Glocks, so I'll leave it at that.
Cheerio! [smilie=w:

[fredj338]

I used to shoot lead almost exclusively out of my first gen G17. I didn't even clean it for the first 2000rds or so. I bought a replacement bbl after reading all the doom & gloom about lead in a Glcok bbl. A LE buddy of mine & I shot 1000s of lead loads in his G21, it did get cleaned pretty regularly, as it was his duty weapon, but it also suffered no ills. IMO, fit the bullet poperly to the bore, clean every 100-200rds & stay off the max loads, it should work.

[Alex Hamilton]

I think we're at the core of it now, aren't we?
The OP asked about leading in Glocks. I take it you've never shot one. Perhaps never even touched one.
Were I there, I'd be thinking it was time for another revolution....
But the topic in this thread is leading in Glocks, so I'll leave it at that.
Cheerio! [smilie=w:
Glocks are no different from other handguns and the basic principles apply. Microgrove rifling v. Ballard rifling or polygonal as in Whitworth, they can all shoot lead bullets without leading, provided the bullet fits and alloy is appropriate to pressure/velocity.

You are right! I have never shot a Glock because even when we were allowed to own handguns it was only for target shooting and Glocks were not good enough for that.

[HammerMTB]

the basic principles apply

Yes, indeed all the basic principles apply. However, polygonal rifling takes to lead boolits differently than Ballard. This is pretty well known amongst those that shoot pistols. I can see why you might not have any experience base there. It is, after all, why the OP posted his question in the first place.




not good enough


Wow! Never seen blood so blue!
When it rains does it fall in your nostrils?

I shoot lotsa targets with Glocks, and the holes look just the same as any other pistol shooter. Course, you don't shoot pistols, do ya?
Too bad about that!

[azcruiser]

Hey I can drive my car 125mph and have no problems most of the time.It's those other time that cost you.If your going to shoot lead in a gun with polygonal rifling and with an unsupported chamber you may have no problems. Then again why not buy a bar sto barrel with cut rifle ing and a supported chamber and not have to here I TOLD YOU SO you could shoot 2000000000
rounds with no problem then again the next one could be an I TOLD YOU SO

[Alex Hamilton]

Yes, indeed all the basic principles apply. However, polygonal rifling takes to lead boolits differently than Ballard. This is pretty well known amongst those that shoot pistols. If the chamber and case dimension allow bullets sized to be exactly the same or slightly larger than the measurement "corner to corner" of the bore, you will not get leading in a Glock. That is perfectly possible and other people have posted replies in this thread to say so



Wow! Never seen blood so blue!
When it rains does it fall in your nostrils?

I shoot lotsa targets with Glocks, and the holes look just the same as any other pistol shooter. Course, you don't shoot pistols, do ya?
Too bad about that!

With respect, I think we are talking of different type of target shooting. You need to put all your shots into a 2" circle at 25 metres and you have to do it with one handed hold. It started with Colt Gold Cup in 45ACP and later with S&W Mod.51. Both were later outgunned with pistols in 32S&WLong, like Walther GSP, Hammerli, Unique and others. I cannot own any of them, but I still shoot air pistol and I am sending you a picture in the attachment. It is an air pistol, but the requirements are still the same. Anatomical grip must fit your hand exactly; trigger must be adjustable for let off, reach; cant and the length of pull and the sights are micro-adjustable. In this "sport" whilst it lasted here, having a load that leaded "just a little" would mean you loose! Glock has many good features as millitary/defensive pistol, but in international shooting scene it does not even beging to compare.

When it rains does it fall in your nostrils? This does not mean anything to me! Is it meant to be some kind of insult and is that necessary?

[mpmarty]

I have competed in USPSA since 1986 and for most of those years I shot a Glock 21. I cast 200gr semi wad cutters and loaded them up to make major at close to 900fps with 700x and Red Dot. I never changed the barrel and had no leading problems at all. I'd get a very small trace of lead smear near the chamber and it brushed out without any problem. Glock replaced the barrel once for me due to a brain fart on an indoor range. The guy next to me was shooting a 357magnum that spit lead sideways more than forward. I was somewhat rattled by this and had a squib load lodge a bullet just in front of the chamber. Angry at what I thought was a misfire I did a "tap rack bang" drill and drove both slugs into the "A" zone at 25 feet. I shot a match with that slightly bulged barrel that weekend and then sent the G21 to Georgia for Glock to fix it. They replaced the barrel and sent it back. Not the guns fault in any way whatsoever. I was shooting 265gr kieth type cast boolits at the time left over from my buddies Smith 4516 which needed the heavier boolit to make major in the short barrel.

[HammerMTB]

This does not mean anything to me! Is it meant to be some kind of insult and is that necessary?

I PM'd ya. I didn't see the OP ask about that style of target shooting or air pistols. I'm going to refrain from further hijacking the thread.

[Alex Hamilton]

I used to shoot lead almost exclusively out of my first gen G17. I didn't even clean it for the first 2000rds or so. I bought a replacement bbl after reading all the doom & gloom about lead in a Glcok bbl. A LE buddy of mine & I shot 1000s of lead loads in his G21, it did get cleaned pretty regularly, as it was his duty weapon, but it also suffered no ills. IMO, fit the bullet poperly to the bore, clean every 100-200rds & stay off the max loads, it should work.

Thank you for that message, Fred. I have a problem convincing HammerMTB that when it comes to basic principles of reloading cast lead bullets Glocks are no different from other pistols. Good cast lead loads do not lead at all and when you have developed such a load barrel cleaning is optional.

I have a Winchester Trapper in 357Mag. and I have never put a phophor bronze brush though the barrel since I bought it in 1996 - probably over 10,000 rounds. I wipe the rifle with oily patch and clean the action but not the barrel.

[HammerMTB]

I have competed in USPSA since 1986 and for most of those years I shot a Glock 21. I cast 200gr semi wad cutters and loaded them up to make major at close to 900fps with 700x and Red Dot. I never changed the barrel and had no leading problems at all. I'd get a very small trace of lead smear near the chamber and it brushed out without any problem.


Thank you marty for confirming what I have said earlier: A small trace of lead after many shots is not uncommon, nor cause to hunt the "Holy Grail" of zero leading following extended use. I sometimes wonder if reports of zero leading are true, or simply that very small amounts of lead are hard to see and identify, and many will clean their bbl and not even know they removed traces of lead.

I seem to have trouble convincing Alex Hamilton that just because there is one report of no leading at all, is not cause to determine that must be the only proper way. Just like the only target shooting is not one-handed in slow, timed, and rapid fire.

for me, I've had enough of trading jabs with Alex, and he may have the last word. As one who has never shot a Glock- EVER- he must know quite a bit about it.

[Alex Hamilton]

Thank you marty for confirming what I have said earlier: A small trace of lead after many shots is not uncommon, nor cause to hunt the "Holy Grail" of zero leading following extended use. I sometimes wonder if reports of zero leading are true, or simply that very small amounts of lead are hard to see and identify, and many will clean their bbl and not even know they removed traces of lead.

I seem to have trouble convincing Alex Hamilton that just because there is one report of no leading at all, is not cause to determine that must be the only proper way. Just like the only target shooting is not one-handed in slow, timed, and rapid fire.

for me, I've had enough of trading jabs with Alex, and he may have the last word. As one who has never shot a Glock- EVER- he must know quite a bit about it.
I was not trading jabs with anyone! You have a trace of leading in your Glock and you are desperate to proove that that is normal. Why not ask people to vote whether it is normal not to be able to speak Japanese. If the target audience is in USA the results will "prove" that it is normal not to be able to speak Japanese!

If one shooter on this forum does not get any leading whatsoever, you should be trying to learn from his experience rather than dicredit what he says or try to ram your opinions down everybody's throat. Excellence has always been the domain of a small minority, regrettably, and people like you stand in the way of progress and learning and insist of pulling everyone down to their level!

I have never driven or owned a Cadillac, but I know that it is totally useless for Formula One motor racing. And that is as offensive to Cadillac owners as it is to say that Glocks are not good enough for ISSF and ISU shooting!????

As a direct result of your incessant badgering we spent a lot of time on this subject without helping the starter of this thread at all. He now knows that many people get leading (and that is apparently normal) and a small minority do not get any at all (and they are probably lying), but he has not learned what causes leading nor how to prevent it!!

Well done HammerMTB! You are a time waster!

[No_1]

Alright guys enough of the bickering. Y'all were both putting out good info until the jabs started. I have had guns that will either lead or not depending on the boolit, lube and / or powder. Just a simple change of one element sent the works down the drain. The latest one in particular was same boolit and lube but different powder. Just because people have found a load that has no leading in their rifle / pistol does not mean they have never had leading in that particular pistol or rifle.

Robert

Robert

[Alex Hamilton]

Hey all, I know this is like beating a dead horse, but I know it has been done with success by some.

I have 2 Glcok 17's that I want to try to shoot lead from and I was looking for some input. I know some have done it without a problem and I want to know what you guys use. Everyone else says it doesn't work and it's a bad idea, but how many have actually attempted it?

The mold I am using is the Lee 356-125-2R.

I have slugged both barrels, one measures .355" and the other .3555" so I was thinking a .356" die for my star. Any suggestions on sizing?

As for hardness, I have a tester but haven't used it much yet. I was thinking WW would work, but I don't have much experience with playing with hardness, what do you guys think?

Lastly, powder, I have read that it is best to use a slow burning powder to shoot lead from Glocks. For those of you that do it, what powders do you use. I don't plan on pushing these bullets too fast, I'm mostly just plinking anyhow.

I want to try this and I am just looking for helpfull and constructive information. I know some will post and says it won't work or it's a bad idea, but I figure no harm in trying. If I can't do it without leading, I will buy barrels, but I know it can be and has been done. Any help you guys can give me would be great.

Sorry about the long post and THanks in advance,
Adam

Hi, Tech413,

The primary cause of leading is gas cutting because the bullet is too small. High pressure gas rips molecules of lead off the side of the bullet and deposits them in front of the bullet where they are "ironed" into the bore by the passing projectile.

The bullet expands a little under pressure and once it has gone an inch or so down the bore it obturates persfectly and the leading stops. But, if you continue shooting the leading will be spread right up to the muzzle by the passing bullets. Accuracy will fall off long before this stage is reached.

There are no hard and fast rules as regards exactly how much larger the bullet should be than the groove size of the barrel (corner to corner measurement in your case), but if I were in your shoes I would go for .357" sizing die for your Star.

Contrary to what you have heard, a faster powder might be better because the bullet will receive a sharper "kick" at start up and if there any small gaps left it will bump up to obturate sooner.

Another common cause of leading is high velocity and the enormous torque applied to the bullet by conventional rifling. Basically, the leading edges of the lands wear alloy and consequently gaps appear at the trailing edges and gas cutting starts. To cure this problem you need harder alloy and, if that does not cure it, gas check. Glocks with their polygonal rifling are kinder to cast lead bullets because the torque is imparted over a larger area of the bullet. This kind of leading will appear midway down the bore or even just at the muzzle. I doubt that you will get it, but if you do try reducing velocity first.

And if you still get slight leading, please do not assume that that is "normal" and that nothing can be done about it. Let us know how you get on and we will take it from there.

Alex

[Alex Hamilton]

Alright guys enough of the bickering. Y'all were both putting out good info until the jabs started. I have had guns that will either lead or not depending on the boolit, lube and / or powder. Just a simple change of one element sent the works down the drain. The latest one in particular was same boolit and lube but different powder. Just because people have found a load that has no leading in their rifle / pistol does not mean they have never had leading in that particular pistol or rifle.

Robert

Robert,

At least you have been lucky not to get leading sometimes. In my long bullet casting "career" I have loaded 25ACP, 32ACP 38Spl/357M, 9mm, 45ACP and I am still loading for 308Win., 303Brit., 310Cadet and 7.62X54R Mosin-Nagant. The only handgun that did not lead from day one was Colt Gold Cup in 45ACP. The others all did. In those days, before computers and online forums it was not possible to exchange information, so it was a case of suffering alone and in silence and endless experimentation.

Even nowadays the majority of cast bullet shooters get small amount of leading, especially those that buy commercially cast bullets. Tailoring each load to a specific firearm requires considerable commitment in time, equipment and knowhow that many are not prepared to make.

Alex

[No_1]

Alex,

I guess I should clarify. I always get leading at some point. Some might make it way more than 100 rounds and some may not. In a light 45-70 I may never see any or anything that may be considered significant because I won't shoot a lot of rounds at one sitting. Some lead with less shots than others. I have a RF rifle that has maybe 10,000 rounds down range and the barrel has only been cleaned twice (the action a hundred times).

My S&W 625 chambered in 460 Rowland (Clark Custom) never leads with the RCBS 300 gr SWCGC, LARS red lubed over 12 grns of AA #7 for any amount of boolits I want to shoot but on the other hand I have another gun that is just plain kicking my ass. :veryconfu

I have found that changing any one component or combination of components will change many things including the amount of shots I can shoot between cleanings but I am a firm believer that leading is a combination of barrel finish, boolit fit, lube, speed, temperature, load and of course a host of other things that I have not mentioned.:holysheep

Robert

[82nd airborne]

have any of you tried lapping a factory glock barrel?

[tech413]

Well I know it's been a while since I first drug this topic up. I've been busy farming and haven't had time to actually try loading. I've been collecting equipment over the last few months. I got a new Dillon press and a Star lube-sizer.

Today I actually had the chance to try out the new equipment and load some rounds.

Cast 2 parts wheel weights to 1 part pure lead in lee 356-125-2R tested at about 12 BHN. Sized to .356 and lubed with 50/50 alox/beeswax on 3 gr. of Red Dot. Loaded 200 rounds but no chance to shoot yet. Range report to follow.

Thanks for all your input
Adam

[arjacobson]

Just get a wolf barrel and swap the stock one out. I got a compensated one for my m36 and love it for lead bullets.

[MakeMineA10mm]

Well, if you look in the stickied thread in the pistols and handcannons forum, there's a long thread there about "the truth of Glocks and cast" or something similar.

In that thread I commented about how I have fired over 5000 rounds of lead-bullet handloads through my early 2nd-Gen. G-17 with no problems - very little in the way of jams and no apparent leading or loss of accuracy. I've also fired a significant number (but no where near 5000 without a cleaning) in my G-21 (45ACP) Glock.

I also posted that a failure analysis engineer from a large firm that has run tests on blown-up Glocks reported in his tests that when he fired cast lead in either a 40 or 45 (can't remember which right now), he was getting readings from his chrono that demonstrated a shot-by-shot increase in pressure after only 100-200 rounds of lead. He used this data to demonstrate to Glock's satisfaction that lead in a polygonal bore (or at least Glock's polygonal bore) is no good. Hence, the warning they've published for 20 years or so stating "NO LEAD BULLETS or handloads" to be fired in their firearms, or the warranty is void...

I have considerable respect for my engineer friend, and have never resolved to my own satisfaction why and how his results differed from mine so badly. It is apparent from the responses in this thread that other people have the same issues -- some have complete success and no problems, while others suffer problems no matter what adjustments they make to their boolits, loads, or guns...

I did think of a couple things that result in still no hard-and-fast answers, but more questions which need to be settled.

First off, I wonder if there is a difference between some barrels? (Are some harder, have slightly different geometry to the poly-rifling, or have rougher/smoother bore surfaces?) If so, this could explain the differences people are having.

Secondly, in my own experience, I know both the early G-17 and the later G-21 I shoot a lot of cast from, have had a LOT of rounds through them. The G-17 was my first Glock, purchased around 1990, and I traded it from another officer who had taken it to the academy and then through the transition to semi-auto pistol classes we had back then. He estimated he had fired roughly 5000-8000 rounds through it before I bought. All of those rounds were jacketed. My G-21 my wife bought for me off an officer she works with, and he had used it as his sidearm for a few years, shooting only jacketed through it. I then started carrying it and using it only with jacketed for awhile, before trying the cast in it. It has no where near the rounds through it the G-17 did, but I'm wondering if all this shooting with jacketed is smoothing/burnishing the barrel which reduces the problems with cast? Which then dovetails right into 82d ABN's question below:

have any of you tried lapping a factory glock barrel?

[tech413]

Ok guys,
Went to the range yesterday, put the first 25 rounds through my glock, removing and inspecting the barrel after every 5. Showed no signs of leading. I put 140 rounds through it, checking often. Disassembled at the range, there is no lead in the barrel!!!

I'm satisfied with how everything turned out and I found that the cast rounds were more accurate than the factory rounds that I have been shooting. The only complaint I have is the smoke and how dirty it was but its a small price to pay for cheap ammo.

Does anyone have any suggestions for lube that might smoke less? I'm using the 50/50 beeswax/alox and it works great, just smokes alot.

Thanks so much to everyone with positive input, and thanks to the forum for helping me get started.

[CiDirkona]

I've been quite happy with Carnauba Red and Power Pistol using the same mold you have. Higher charges seem to be less smokey, but the lower charges help with the quicker transitions during Steel Challenge. Lower charges were less smokey with HP38, but Power Pistol seems to work my compensator better. PM for actual load data.

My barrel is only ever one swipe from clean, and the only time the chamber gets fouled up is if I use too much case lube in the case feeder. I was never able to get 45/45/10 to stop leading, despite the ease of use.

Another thing that might help it smoke less is to go up by .001" . Get a better seal and you'll melt off less lube.

[2wheelDuke]

On the topic of Glocks and boolits, I've been doing some experimenting myself.

I did get some leading in my G21 after running a few boxes of my Lee 230gr TC's thru. I sized them .452 and lubed them in the "recluse lube" of LLA/JPW. They shot great really. Every magazine, I pulled it apart and looked down the barrel. At the range, I couldn't see any problem. Accuracy stayed good, but I did find some leading after I got it home to clean it. It all seemed to be at the first inch or so past the chamber.

I tried again last week on my day off, and didn't see anywhere near as much leading. I also had a jar of Shooter's Choice solvent to try out. I ran a patch of that thru, hit it with the bronze brush a bit, then ran a few tight cotton patches thru. The bore was spotless after that.

I didn't shoot the G30 as much that day, but it cleaned up very easily.

My Glocks are .45's though, and they run an 8 groove polygonal rifling. I'm guessing that variable makes a pretty big difference compared to the 6 groove barrels of the 9's and 40's.

Another issue I saw was when I tried not cleaning the lube off the boolits. I had a good layer on because I'd tumbled them 3x in recluse lube trying to get more fillout in the lube groove. The lube on the nose built up in the chamber and it wouldn't go into battery after a while.

[Geraldo]

The H.K. P7s have a similar barrel geometry, so the same warning is given with them.


We used P7M8s and P7M13s, and I recall the concern with lead being that in a gas operated pistol it might plug the gas port.

[HammerMTB]

Ok guys,
Went to the range yesterday, put the first 25 rounds through my glock, removing and inspecting the barrel after every 5. Showed no signs of leading. I put 140 rounds through it, checking often. Disassembled at the range, there is no lead in the barrel!!!

I'm satisfied with how everything turned out and I found that the cast rounds were more accurate than the factory rounds that I have been shooting. The only complaint I have is the smoke and how dirty it was but its a small price to pay for cheap ammo.

Does anyone have any suggestions for lube that might smoke less? I'm using the 50/50 beeswax/alox and it works great, just smokes alot.

Thanks so much to everyone with positive input, and thanks to the forum for helping me get started.

I'm glad to hear it worked out well for ya! :drinks:
I will say I got less smoke from LLA than I did from 50/50.
That said, I came back from the range Saturday and set to cleaning my Mdl 20. Lo and behold, it had some significant streaks of lead down the bbl! A quick wipe of the Lewis Lead Remover got it all out, but now my mind is searching for the reason it happened.... it hasn't in the past with the same load. Accuracy didn't deteriorate during the session, either. Guess it's time to do some more experiments, see what changed....