Powder for unchecked gas bullets in 8MM

[tkcomer]

I got a K98 8MM Mauser last week. I plan to shoot unchecked store bought bullets through this rifle. The question is, what's a good powder? I have Unique and IMR 4227 on hand but have been reading about Trail Boss as “better” for cast rifle loads. Any suggestion? Thanks for any replies.

[Papa smurf]

UNIQUE I shoot a Lee 175 without a gas check and 8 gr Unique NO FILLER . Unique is not position sensitive. Works well in a Turk and a Yugo for me. A place to start. Good Shooting------------------------Papa Smurf

[tkcomer]

That's good to hear. I have that. The reason I asked is some friends are heading to a big gun shop in the "big" city that has a big reloading section. If another powder was more appropriate, I'd have them pick up a pound to try.

[357maximum]

bullseye, reddot, green dot, 700X, unique as well as many more similar powders have worked for me in similar sized cases. They all seem to work and I think it is the "LEAFBLOWER EFFECT" upon ignition that makes them work so well. I use alot of 700X but that has more to do with the fact I had several steel KEGS of it come to me darn cheap. Each of em will have their sweet spot that you will need to find, but that is where the fun begins.

[damron g]

I'm with 357 max,whatever fast stuff you have use it.I use Trail Boss with good luck with plain base in the 8mm,7.62 Russian and 30-06 but if you have Unique there is really no reason to go out and buy it.

George

[tkcomer]

That's good to hear. One other reason I thought of Trail Boss was I spotted a minimum and maximum load for the 8MM. So far on Unique, I see like one load for it. Can't find a minimum/Max load for it with the unchecked bullets. Most loads I find are faster loads with checked bullets. Since I don't cast, I have none of that equipment. I've spotted a .324 bullet at Midway. But I gotta slug this barrel first to see what I have. And I gotta get this cosmo out of the barrel and action. They did a good job on the outside, but there's still cosmo in the action and barrel. Thanks for all the info.

[357maximum]

From Lyman's 3rd castboolit book:

8mm and Unique

120Gr boolit
14=1855 min
18=2150 max

160 grain boolit
13=1545 min
17=1820 max

181 grain boolit
13=1490min
17=1705max

214 grain boolit
13=1385min
16=1580max

I have gone below the MIN charge in alot of similar sized cases to reach certain goals, but I used a soft custom cast boolit to do it. Commercial cast boolits will likely not work going real slow as they are too hard and generally run too small. I spent this morning playing with 1.5 to 4 grains of 700X in the 35 remington with a 154 grain plainbased BRP 38/357 boolit and was tickled with the performance, but hard boolits would likely have done very poorly in this application.

[BABore]

When you say "unchecked boolits" are you referring to a plain based boolit or a gas checked boolit without the gas check. It will make a difference on your load and how it shoots. If it is indeed a plain based boolit, I would stick with loads below 1,500 fps. If they're unchecked gas checked boolits, stay under 1,200 fps as they don't always shoot so good to begin with. Unique on up needs to have a certain amount of pressure to burn well and shoot accurately. It's quite common to see vertical stringing at starting loads. Faster powders like Red Dot and 700X are a bit more forgiving.

[tkcomer]

It’s a Hunters Supply # 192 flat base bullet that is unchecked. So I “assume" it’s not to be driven too fast.

[herbert buckland]

I have found puting a ball of toilet paper under the boolit seems to work well with unchecked boolits,by far the best results i have with light loads has been with Trail Boss pouder in a variaty of calibers (303,8mm Hungarian ,8mm Mauser,6.5 Carcano)

[tkcomer]

I forgot to ask. Does the gang crimp for these low power loads?

[Maven]

From Lyman's 3rd castboolit book, 8mm and Unique:

120Gr boolit
14=1855 min
18=2150 max

160 grain boolit
13=1545 min
17=1820 max

181 grain boolit
13=1490min
17=1705max

214 grain boolit
13=1385min
16=1580max


tk...., I find some of the above loads a bit, shall we say, optimistic? I use a PB group buy 140gr. CB in my .30-06 and get the best accuracy with lower charges of pistol powders. You may wish to try 7 - 7.5 grs. Alliant Bullseye; 7- 7.5 Hodgdon's Clays; 8 - 9 grs. Alliant Unique; or 9 - 10.5grs. Blue Dot to start. You can increase the charges of Unique or Blue Dot by 0.5 gr. at a time up to 16.0 grs. (of either) if accuracy isn't to your liking or until bore leading occurs.

[357maximum]

Maven

I agree and the book even states the barrels were 24 and 26 inches. I was just regurgitating the info straight from the book as I turn all my 8mm brass into 7x57AI.:-P

[Maven]

357maximum, No criticism of you intended. I just wonder how rigorously Lyman tested those loads for accuracy and bore leading.

[tkcomer]

I have that same Lyman book. That's why I came here. I was looking for slower loads for the cast bullet I mentioned. Also, the crimping part left me a little confused. Don't crimp for single shots and crimp for “field” use. Since we now have the Lee Factory Crimp die available, I was wondering what people were doing. I crimp for my low power 30-30 loads. Not very accurate, but still fun to shoot at pop cans in the yard. I use 9grs of Unique and a 170gr Laser Cast bullet for it. Leads the first third of the barrel, but I was told the bullets are too hard for that low load.

[Maven]

"I use 9grs of Unique and a 170gr Laser Cast bullet for it. Leads the first third of the barrel, but I was told the bullets are too hard for that low load."

tkcomer, Have you slugged that bbl.? Are those Laser Cast Bullets at least 0.001" larger than your bore? If the answer is "no" to both questions, that may be the source of our barrel leading. Also, commercial CB's tend to be too hard and use a [hard] lube, which doesn't do what it's supposed to. I'd drop the charge of Unique to 8 grs. and swish those CB's around in some Lee Liquid Alox or Lar's Xlox (link at bottom left of your screen), which should decrease bore leading and increase accuracy.

[tkcomer]

I never slugged the barrel in the Winchester. It's a 1973 vintage that hadn't had one box of ammo through it when I got it. Bullets are .310. I tried 8grs of powder, but the leading was still there. It's slightly more accurate at 9grs. I did coat the bullets with Lee Liquid Alox. I haven't slugged the Mauser yet. Bore is shiny but I'm still getting gunk out of it. Patches are now starting to turn blue. I want to get it really clean before I fire the lead through it. I'm in no hurry though. Just trying to gather info on loads for this gun. You can see it here if ya want to look at it: http://www.pixagogo.com/5724124248 Click on a pic to make it bigger, then click on original at the top to blow that up.

[tkcomer]

I finally got around to slugging the barrel of both guns. .317/323 for the Mauser and .300/308 for the Winchester. So the leading in the '94 is from flame erosion and no gas checks I think. The 8mm .324 bullets for Hunter's Supply are flat base bullets and seem kinda hard. I can't scratch them with my fingernail. So I may start at around the 15gr load for it. I'll lube them with Lee Alox before I load them. But it will be a while before I test. Man it's hot. And the shop is even hotter.

[Ben]

Maven :

I've wondered on more than 1 occasion if Lyman ever put any of those old cast loads from their manuals on paper down range or if their testing wasn't strictly confined to " pressure testing."

A large % of their cast bullet data won't shoot for beans in any of my rifles. I've received far more good guidance on " proper cast bullet loads " here than in their old manuals.

Just because a load doesn't destroy a rifle doesn't qualify it , in my mind, as a good cast boolit load. A very large % of their load data will only keep primer and powder companies in business, you'll receive very little joy from examining your targets looking for those small groups and accurate loads.

[Thecyberguy]

I have been playing with Trail Boss and have good luck with a few calibers.

Here is a link too a pretty good thread about trail Boss in the 8MM.

http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_topic.php?id=12210&forum_id=91&highlight=+trail+boss+8mm

Have a good 'un, thecyberguy

[Bob Krack]

I have that same Lyman book. That's why I came here. I was looking for slower loads for the cast bullet I mentioned. Also, the crimping part left me a little confused. Don't crimp for single shots and crimp for “field” use. Since we now have the Lee Factory Crimp die available, I was wondering what people were doing. I crimp for my low power 30-30 loads. Not very accurate, but still fun to shoot at pop cans in the yard. I use 9grs of Unique and a 170gr Laser Cast bullet for it. Leads the first third of the barrel, but I was told the bullets are too hard for that low load.
HeHeHe.....

Sody-pop cans are helpless victims against approximate .30 caliber round balls!

#0 buck is about right (if I remember right) for the .323 diameter of the 8mm - setting in front of 2 or 3 grains of Bullseye or 3 to 5 grains of Unique. (#00 Buck will squeeze down fine if ya can't find #0).

Not much good except aiming and trigger exercises, but lots of cheap fun!

Bob


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[ilcop22]

Someone mentioned Bullseye. Is this a decent powder for plain base 8mm? I have Bullseye IMR 4139, 4895 and Varget. I haven't loaded for my Mausers yet, but have a nice batch of Lyman (forgive me forgetting the model number) boolits I plan on loading tonight. They're roughly 165g boolits.

[damron g]

Someone mentioned Bullseye. Is this a decent powder for plain base 8mm? They're roughly 165g boolits.

yes works great.6-8 grains should find you a good load.

George

[ilcop22]

Thank you, George. I'll give that load a try (hopefully) tomorrow.

[azcruiser]

I like Trail Boss plus it only like 14 oz in a bottle at about 15 or 16 bucks here.I also like that it almost fills the case so you could never double a load with Trail Boss

[tkcomer]

Well, it's official. This gun does not like the .324 Hunter Cast bullets. We're talking shot gun patterns at 30 yards. I tried some 198gr FMJs. 12Grs of Trail Boss do nicely with those bullets. But my old eyes have trouble with the sights on this gun.