How hot can i load

[Superfly]

Ok i have a marlin XLR 45 70 24" in stainless Steal.

I run 340 grn lead and 300 grn jacket boolits in it

How hot can i load this thing???

I have gone as far as 49 grn under the 340 lead everything seemd fine no weird signs ect????


So how hot can i go ???

Thanks

jaime

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[colonelhogan44]

No one's going to tell you to go higher than the published data. and why would you need to load extremely hot in a 45-70?

[NickSS]

You mention 49 gr but failed to say what powder you were using. Any number of reloading manuals have data for Marlin lever actions. Believe me when I say that the top loads for a Marlin will rattle your teeth plenty good when you touch them off but I almost never go that high as I personally would rather enjoy shooting the rifle with moderate loads rather than developing a sour shoulder and whiplash from top loads. Besides a 350 gr 45-70 slug moving at a moderate 1300 to 1400 fps will kill any game that walks in the lower 48 of the United States.

[jh45gun]

No need to hot load a 45/70 though some love to do so. I will go Nick one better a moderate load say a 405 grain slug in the moderate 1450 to 1500 fps I would say would kill anything walking on this planet and it is not bad to shoot either. My Load of 2400 that is 24 grains thumps plenty well down range yet still is not that hard on the shoulder and a chunk of lead that big has plenty of penetration. While some may dispute this the Marlin 450 is just a hot loaded 45/70 and was invented so it could not be used in the older 45/70's giving a safe load in a new gun. Like so many new cartridges all they did was re invent the wheel only in this case they made sure the rim of the wheel (the Belt) would only fit the right vehicle. For those that got them great. I have never priced them but I suspect the brass is a LOT more expensive then 45/70 brass and it does not really have any advantages over a hot loaded 45/70 which most folks do not need anyway.

[AnthonyB]

I loaded one box of RCBS 45-405 HPs to over 1800 fps from my Marlin. After conning soon to be former friends into shooting the remaining 19 rounds, I dropped back to 1500-1600 fps and was much happier.
Tony

[Hondo Lane]

Hot loads are rarely if ever accurate. I reload for accuracy not speed. Usualy published mid-range loadings are the accurate ones. Of course every rifle has its preference.

[runfiverun]

jamie.... you could go up close to 450 marlin in pressure. your brass is gonna be the top off.
but i doubt anything that large lives in your part of canada.

[jlchucker]

I agree with Colonelhogan44 about sticking to what it says in the loading manuals, But hey--it's your choice, your rifle, and maybe even your body parts. The 45-70 is a great round that's existed a long time--and no game animal has yet evolved that's been impossible to take with proper published loads in that caliber. The others who have so far responded to your query are experienced handloaders and hunters who know a lot about this caliber.

[MtGun44]

You can get 2000+ fps with a 405 Jbullet while staying within the "Marlin" data in
many loadbooks. How fast do youj need?

The .45-70 has been killing very well at 1200-1800 fps with 400 gr boolits for
over 100yrs. I don't think the deer or elk have suddenly become armored. I have
used the Rem 405 at 1750 on some pretty big and tough animals with excellent
results. I see no need to go faster than that, even though I had good accy at
2000+, but punishing recoil. I went up to 1750 to get a little more range, but
for 100-150 yd work more than 1500 isn't going to make much difference. My
velocity at 200 was about like a milder load at 50 yds, that was my idea. Probably
not necessary, never shot that far in hunting with the gun.

Bill

[colonelhogan44]

Speaking of punishing recoil, try shooting a 45-70 out of a derringer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P34v983P2j4

[Superfly]

All i want is a few rounds loaded up for the buddys that come bye and bug me for stuff, kinda a shulder hurting tool if you know what i mean .

Jaime

[MtGun44]

Hodgdon's "lever action" data shows 50.5 gr H4198 as a max with the 405gr Speer JSP,
and a velocity of 2002 fps, also a max load of H335 is 58.0 gr with a velocity of 1995 fps.

Those ought to be worked up to carefully,but if you get there they should be enough
to impress anyone's shoulder.

Bill

[jh45gun]

All i want is a few rounds loaded up for the buddys that come bye and bug me for stuff, kinda a shulder hurting tool if you know what i mean .

Jaime

Glad I do not know you. :)

[waksupi]

All i want is a few rounds loaded up for the buddys that come bye and bug me for stuff, kinda a shulder hurting tool if you know what i mean .

Jaime

That is one of the most foolish things I have heard lately. Maybe you shouldn't have firearms. All it would take would be one load that something goes wrong, and you would have it on your head for the rest of your life.

[Corbi]

Ranch Dog had some data for his bullets. I would stick to that. Some of the loads he listed were mighty warm, IMO.

Corbi

[jh45gun]

That is one of the most foolish things I have heard lately. Maybe you shouldn't have firearms. All it would take would be one load that something goes wrong, and you would have it on your head for the rest of your life.


That was my thought when I read it kinda juvenile.

[Superfly]

Ok let me rephrase the Question A good hard hitting SAFE load for the 45 70

NOTHING UNSAFE


jaime

[45r]

My XLR shoots saeco 350gc and rcbs 405gc boolits into an inch at 100 yards using 49 grains Vitt-133 and gives enough kick to keep me from wanting to go up any higher with the powder.You can get some very hard kicking loads with RL-7 with safe pressures and good accuracy also.Always use manuals that say safe for leverguns,some loads for the ruger and win,browning single shot rifles are too much and will wear out your XLR and are not really needed anyway.

[Bullshop]

"I tried that load and it did 1" for me also."

"My XLR shoots saeco 350gc and rcbs 405gc boolits into an inch at 100 yards"

"All three of these loads will shoot under 1 inch at 100 yards."

Why dont you enter some of those 1" groups in the postal match?
BIC/BS

[Frank]

Bullshop said
Why dont you enter some of those 1" groups in the postal match?

Because it's boring to go to the post office. :grin:

[Frank]

Jestergrin said
When I shoot cast I use the Ranch Dog 350Gr RNFP/GC in a Rem Case with 52.OGr of H-322 with a Fed 210 Primer.

I tried that load and it did 1" for me also. Superfly needs to forget the hot loads and use what already works. :brokenima

[Bullshop]

Frank said

"Because it's boring to go to the post office."

That is a new one to add to the official excuse book.
BIC/BS

[Frank]

Bullshop said
That is a new one to add to the official excuse book.

Plus it doesn't prove anything. There will be those who will still say he shot it at 25 yds then put down 100. So if you rubber stamp it what does that do? :confused:

[Superfly]

I do appreciate the info, As i am just using what i was givin for info from the guy i bought the rifle from.

I did go look for some powder today and guess what ? I forgot the #s so no pwder for me.

Hey thanks for the info I will try the 25Yrd shot to LOL


Jaime

[Bullshop]

Frank said
"Plus it doesn't prove anything. There will be those who will still say he shot it at 25 yds then put down 100. So if you rubber stamp it what does that do?"

You see Frank I am on a crusade. First I am sooooo disappointed by that lack of support and participation from a group of what like 15,000 people that are supposed to be the cutting edge of cast boolit learning but we cant get more than three to take part.
Secondly I am most often doubtful of all the one inch groups being tossed around on such a regular basis. Inch groups do happen but when I hear it can happen on demand I wonder, and when I hear it can happen on demand from a revolver at 100 yards well I just cant accept that as fact. That statement will not make me any friends here but that is my honest assessment.
All I am trying to do is get those that say they can do it to participate in some of the postal matches but all I have been able to do so far is to get some of those to offer lame excuses. Some don't even bother with excuses they just ignore.
Its simple really the targets will remove all doubt and we can all learn.
I dare say that I am likely not the only doubting Thomas and a friendly match as in the old days will separate the talkers from the shooters.
Not to say here that I am a top dog not at all. I am average at best but as I said this has become my crusade to try to generate some participation in matches being run by group members.
It may end up making me a very unpopular member but most often my views aren't all that popular anyway.
BIC/BS

[waksupi]

Dan, it isn't so much a lack of desire, as a lack of time. A lot of the time, I am working, and trying to make a living. Most of my shooting is competition oriented this time of year on various shooting venues, and just don't have the time or desire to play another aspect. I need all the practice I can get, in the disciplines I am shooting in. I do agree with you, I really believe some of the braggers are full of kitty **** clear up to their ears.
You know I ran quite a few matches on the early days of this board, and never did have an overwhelming response. That's fine, those who had the time, shot. Those who didn't shoot, learned from the load data given by the participants.
Berating people for not participating, will just about guarantee you will have no interest from people in the future. You can not force fun, and rants like that will not help.

[JesterGrin_1]

I post any good load info I have to help others. And as shown I have posted said targets as well. You can believe them or not. But there is no benefit to anyone including myself by lying about any said targets posted. Not to mention it does very much rub me the wrong way that anyone would say so. So I have removed the info and targets I posted to help keep everyone happy.

I also do not have the time or the funds to blow for components needed as well as the 30 Mi round trip to go to a range just to see how close I can get to the bull to clear up any bull and even if done some will say it is BS now. Not to mention the time it takes to cast needed BOOLITS and cull the ones I do not like then to weight them to try and keep each load as close to the next which does take time. In the end I hunt with my firearms not plink. So I sight them in for the range I feel comfortable with and leave it at that. And load any rounds I feel I will need on hand for the needed job.

And for myself I do not find mailing in a target all that exciting or fun. But I do wish there were a few get together down in South TEXAS but there is not. I feel the main reason for this along with many other hobbies is that down south the weather is good most of the year so it is not a big deal to be able to enjoy there hobby outside when ever they so wish. Where as up north people have a limited amount of time to do things comfortably so they have all kinds of get togethers for many hobbies to enjoy what little time they have.

[45r]

I can't get the Rcbs 405 to go moa all the time but the saeco 350GC is pretty much done most of the time.The XLR I just got is one of the most accurate guns I've ever shot,especially for a levergun.If I get several moa groups with the same load it's when I did my part and rifle did what it is able to do.I use to get into matchs and trophy stuff and have lots of them but like what was said previously I don't have the time anymore.I have put in a lot of time shooting different loads and put it out here so some reader might be able to find a load that gets them good results without having to spend a bunch of money on testing different powders,boolits etc.I don't care if anybody thinks I can shoot better than others,I've put over 50 bucks in the freezer over 3 decades and lots of does also.That is where the rubber meets the road to me.I've shot a lot with a handgun and no I can't shoot 1 inch at 100 yards with a revolver like some claim but have at 50 yards.I never really thought it was hard to shoot moa with a rifle myself and have no doubts that some of the posters here can do it.Some may be stretching things a little bit but at least they are shooters and hunters and like casting their own boolits.If and when I get to retire I'd like to do the postal match thing.I getting close in a few more years.

[crabo]

The same topic is going on the pistol site.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86160

I know that for me, I can shoot my best groups with my Luepold 2.5X8 on my revolvers. Once I find a load that I like, I put on a red dot. The group size grows. Then if I shoot open sights, the group grows again. The gun and load is still capable of the same group, but I am the limiting factor. The testing with the scope shows me, and gives me confidence in my gun and load, so when I miss, I know it is my fault.

I cannot shoot my pistols offhand with the scope because of the weight, which is why I like my Ultradots. I would suggest shooting a round of Hunter's Pistol to show yourself your practical capabilities.

[Bullshop]

Waksupi
You are right and I am sorry. My apologies to all that I have offended.
My anger was generated by my great disappointment. I have always felt that with so many like minded folks striving for the same goals here we had so much potential for fun and learning by our involvement in postal matches. I know that when I receive my fouling shot I immediately turn to the match results and review the load data section. Reason is I learn from it. I pay little attention to who got top honors as I am more interested in what than who.
I guess I will just have to let it go as it seems to be a loosing battle. My apologies to all and to this site to which I do not want to be a trouble maker. I like this place and what I wanted to do and thought I was doing was making it better. I seem to have failed at that and had the opposite effect.
BIC/BS

[Frank]

Jestergrin said
I post any good load info I have to help others. And as shown I have posted said targets as well. You can believe them or not. But there is no benefit to anyone including myself by lying about any said targets posted. Not to mention it does very much rub me the wrong way that anyone would say so. So I have removed the info and targets I posted to help keep everyone happy.

Exactly. But I can understand their frustration. Maybe they really aren't doing very well. Like Lloyd Smale's post cited above. I just can't get over it. I found many of his earlier posts helpful to myself. Now he folds and asks How do you guys do it? :confused: To me this is like the oil spill. Freaky things happen. People do funny things. I've refrained from posting groups for the same reason as you. I just like to show how well our boolits are doing. All the trouble we go thru with the hobby and then when there's success we have to hide? Well all I say to that is ...too bad fella's. If you have a problem with it, well just remember: You're not the only game in town. And if all you can do is complain about other's success, well then, you're not in the game at all. Done :smile:

[45r]

I've read some stuff about the postal match but not recently.I'd like to see what others are doing and the groups.Maybe you can show us your targets and maybe others will show us what they can do.It's not so easy for me to post pictures without the help of my wife since I'm not so computer picture able and the time involved.She complains about me not spending more time doing stuff with her.I know you are very nice guy and living in Alaska off the land takes a lot of hard work and hunting skill.I'm not mad at you,I believe you when you said you just want more people to get into the postal matchs,with the knowledge I learned here I became more able to shoot well with cast bullets.I became bored with shooting half inch 10 shot groups with my 223 varmit rifle a long time ago and shooting cast made things more interesting.I think this is the first time I've read anyting about postal match shooting on this site,I thought it was a Marlin site thing and I haven't seen it much over there.I got some targets I think printed up somewhere,I'll see if I can help by shooting them and showing them instead of some of my other targets.

[Superfly]

come on guys relax

you all know you want a lee mold and you are in denial RIGHT

Jaime

[Frank]

Jaime, so what load are you going to use? And remember we want a full report with all the details.

[Bullshop]

45r
If you go to the forums page and scroll to the bottom you will see a forum for match and match results or something.
I think the most current one is being run by 123deiselbenz or something like that. BTW I did post some targets there early this week. If you look close the load data is on the targets.
Frank
You have confused me. Thats not hard though.
BIC/BS

[Superfly]

i think i will try the h322 load with the lee 340 grn as it is the only boolit i cast in 45 70.


Jaime

[6pt-sika]

Postal matches are a wonderfull thing "IF" thats what a person wants to do !

My own personal opinion on them is I could care less .

To me shooting is for my own personal enjoyment . And with something like that I doubt if I'd enjoy it so I certainly don't see any reason to do it .

[excess650]

i think i will try the h322 load with the lee 340 grn as it is the only boolit i cast in 45 70.


Jaime

Don't bother unless you want to be scrubbing lead out of the barrel. Those HV loads are gonna need a gas check.

[Superfly]

Hey thanks for the FYI i did not think of the leading.

jaime

[45r]

I just checked out the competition postal match stuff and it looks like fun.I didn't know it was there,I've been into Marlin leverguns lately.Must be the Marlinitus thing.