38 at the range

[mag_01]

:coffee: ----WHAT A DAY ---weather is excellent cool clear just right for shooting---fired 150 rounds ---the herco powder did not perform well with the 158 Tl in 38 spec.----but the Tight group did well had 2 loads 3.4grs. and 4 grs.---shot 40 feet off hand and 3.4 grouped about an inch.---4 grouped about an inch and a half and felt a little stiff for a 38---I will try the 3.2 as suggested---I think both loads show promise with the right shooter-----I'm also going to try 3 bull with the 158 TL boolit and 5 grs. of Unique---as dirty as it is I have always had good luck with Bullseye---in 38---357 45 auto and 9 mm as well as 45 long colt---I use a little candle wax on sprue plate---works well-------------Mag

[Jack Stanley]

that's a beautiful thing .....good weather and good fun with the revolver . I always had good results with either Bullseye or Unique for accuracy . I do think that pouring so much Bullseye through the throat of my 29 is the reason I've had to have two barrels and cylinders installed . I bet the boys at S&W was wonderin' about me :Fire:
I was starting to try 700X just before I quit compitition with the wheelgun . It did work well but I didn't shoot enough to see if it would erode throats and such .

Jack

[Bucks Owin]

that's a beautiful thing .....good weather and good fun with the revolver . I always had good results with either Bullseye or Unique for accuracy . I do think that pouring so much Bullseye through the throat of my 29 is the reason I've had to have two barrels and cylinders installed . I bet the boys at S&W was wonderin' about me :Fire:
I was starting to try 700X just before I quit compitition with the wheelgun . It did work well but I didn't shoot enough to see if it would erode throats and such .

Jack

John Linebaugh would agree with you. He says the fast powders are harder on guns than the likes of W-296 or H-110 in .44 mag loads....

Personally, I don't like small charges in big cases either....

FWIW,

Dennis

[Char-Gar]

I still don't get it..just don't get it..I swear I don't understand! What is this preocupation by the newer shooters with dirty burning powder. What is the deal anyway! You do wash your hand and clean your firearms after stooting, don't you? Is personal hygene and proper firearms care a thing of the past?

Lordy, I have shot probably 50 to 75K rounds of handgun loads with Unique and powder residue have never been a problem.

All over the Internet, this dirty vs. clean power crops up over and over again...I just don't get it. I guess it is time for me to check into the "home", but they won't let me have guns, power and primers there. So, I guess I will just keep washing my hands and cleaning my guns as I have been doing for over a half century..hasn't hurt me yet!

[Char-Gar]

OK..Today is my day to be a grump old fart! Jack what in the world kind of loads with Bullseye are you shooting to require a 29 to go through barrels and cylinders?

Bulleye is a fine power for low end target loads in sixguns. With proper loads a sixgun is everlasting with Bullsye. In a 44 special/44 mag 4 to 5 grains of BE makes for a fine shooting target/small game load in the Smith 29. A good 29 will take AT Least 40 to 50K such rounds, maybe double that.

Folks why try to use BE and other fast burners for high end/magnum loads are treading on thin ice. Even though some books list such loads, they are inappropriate and can be dangerous. With top end BE loads even a small variation can push the pressure past the red line. Wear on the firearms is several times what would occur with same velocity loads using slower powder.

In the 29 use BE, 231 or the like for speeds up to 750 -800 fps, from there to 1,100 fps, Unique, AA5 or the like, from there to blowing the pistol to smithereens 2400, H110, AA9 and the like are powers of choice.

From time to time, I run across folks running loads to the red line with BE and other fast burners. They are trying to save money on power by using smaller charges. Not a smart idea!

[Wayne Dobbs]

Amen on both posts, Chargar!

[klausg]

Chargar/Wayne- another ditto. I really like Unique for my self-named 'blooper' loads in .357 & .44. I'm not exactly fond of the residue on my hands but as you say it does wash off. Any powder is going to foul, the gun is going to have to be cleaned regardless of what you shoot in it. I say if Bullseye/Unique is accurate quit searching for the mythical "zero-maintenance" powder; it doesn't exist. Okay, I'm off my soapbox now...

-Klaus

[johniv]

I must have burned a truck load of unique and have no complaints. I guess its all in your preception, got a repair in cuppla years ago from a "new ' shooter. He wanted his pistol checked out as he noticed some"black Specks" on his white shirt after shooting(factory loads)Whodathunkit.
John

[Char-Gar]

Black specks on his white shirt?... the horror...oh the horror!

[Jack Stanley]

It's been a very long time since I loaded Bullseye for the .44 case . If I remember right for a hundred ninety-five grain wadcutter the load was anywhere between 4.8 to 5.5 grains in a magnum case . It really didn't seem very hot or hard on gun and shooter . S&W replaced the parts and things would be fine for a while then lead would get silly again . Lead wasn't to hard cast and lube was alox , It seemed like it should have gone longer I thought as well .

Jack

[floodgate]

I had a buddy who apparently was totally impervious to recoil. He stopped by one day, saying he was having trouble with his 1911 .45 ACP; said the slide kept jamming back at the end of the recoil travel, and NOT on the slide lock; he had to whack it with a stick to make it go forward again. I asked what the load he was using was. He said, "Nine grains". I said, hmmm, "Nine grains Unique; that's a fairly stiff load, but oughta work OK." He said, "No, nine grains Bullseye!" Sheeesh!

floodgate

[Char-Gar]

Jack... I don't know what was causing your problem with the Smith 28, but I have serious doubts it was you choice of powder.

Floodgate... with 9/BE the fellow was lucky the slide stayed on the frame. It just proves how tought these 1911s can be.

[Jack Stanley]

Doubts are fine , S&W decided they needed replacing and didn't bill me for it . Gotta love that lifetime warranty . Gun is still working fine but doesn't get used near as much as it used to . What little I shoot it now will likely last me the rest of my days . Did I mention I do love the 29's ?:-D

Jack

[StarMetal]

Charger,

A 1911 that doesn't have a ramped barrel and fully supported chamber, will almost always blow the web of the case, blow the grips off , and blow the magazine out of the gun, before it wrecks that slide.

Joe

[Bad luck Bill]

Mag,

Today was a beautiful day for shooting, I spent eight hours and shot around 800-900 rounds of ammo! I'm really liking Tight group a lot. I had about 100 rounds loaded at 3.5 of TG and it was really nice, I forgot to take the ones that were loaded at 3.2 of Tight group but I've shot that load before and it was very accurate for me. I'd definitely try it if I was you, I think you might like it. Sounds like you're a crack shot with the .38! I just started shooting and I'm having problems with reducing my group sizes. Maybe I should settle on one load and one bullet type and, practice, pratice, practice! I'm thinking about the Lyman #358311 over 3.0 grains of tight group. The traditional load is Bullseye but I'm beginning to like Tight Group a little more.

I shoot offhand duelist, been shooting for three months or so now and I'm having a blast! I relaod and cast my own of course, every aspiring shooter should! I found a decent mid-range load for my .357...5.5 of Unique was fun, and I found a good, accurate 50 yarder load for the .357...11.0 grains of 2400. If you like .357's then you might want to try the 2400 load.

Bad Luck Bill.

P.S.,

I'll change my handle to Good Luck Bill when I can consistantly get good groups!!!

[keeper89]

Bill, if you continue on with those 800-900 round range sessions you should be changing your handle to "good luck bill" sooner rather than later--my personal .02 would be to stick with one load and work the basics--breath control, trigger control, and sight picture until it becomes an unconscious reflex--and go for smooth over speed--once the smoothness is there, the speed will pick up almost automatically--something about "muscle memory" the process becomes ingrained to the point where you aren't even consciously aware that you are doing it--anyway, have a ball.....you are discovering just why the 38 is "special".....;-)

[Char-Gar]

Bill... "Back in he dayi" when I was ashooting Bullseye Pistol Matches, the common thinking was regular moderate practice was much better then short periods of intensive shooting. 100 rounds a day for eight days will build better skills than a shooting marathon.

We found out that shooting more that four consecutive days resulted in lower scores. Individual vary of course, but all of us are just flesh, blood and nerves and we can enforce out will on this just so far before the rebel.

The road to shooting skills requires both ammo and time. We never could find any short cuts.

[felix]

If you don't make every shot count, the shot was wasted. In other words, the shooting sports require intensive attitude, and if not there, the shots will be wasted. Maybe, if I am lucky, I FEEL like shooting once a month these days. If the feeling is not there, I save gas and stay home. ... felix

[Bucks Owin]

I still don't get it..just don't get it..I swear I don't understand! What is this preocupation by the newer shooters with dirty burning powder. What is the deal anyway! You do wash your hand and clean your firearms after stooting, don't you? Is personal hygene and proper firearms care a thing of the past?

Lordy, I have shot probably 50 to 75K rounds of handgun loads with Unique and powder residue have never been a problem.

All over the Internet, this dirty vs. clean power crops up over and over again...I just don't get it. I guess it is time for me to check into the "home", but they won't let me have guns, power and primers there. So, I guess I will just keep washing my hands and cleaning my guns as I have been doing for over a half century..hasn't hurt me yet!


I haven't run across ANY powder that is so clean as to not need a session with #9 after shooting...."Dirty" powder? So what! It's easy to clean up...

(Besides, there's usually a "tiny" bit of lead to remove too!) [smilie=1:

Dennis

[BruceB]

I surely do agree about the modern preoccupation with "clean-burning" powders. It simply doesn't matter to me, doesn't even enter my mind, as a factor in selecting a powder.

My light loads for use in magnum revolvers do use fast powders, but that's because I want the pressures up in the efficient-burning area. Look at the Lyman CB Handbook and see how high pressures can get with quick-burners while still maintaining rather low bullet speeds, and it's easy to see why pushing a fast powder for "magnum-level" performance is a BAD idea.

In my .44 maggies, for example, I currently use the Lee 200 RNFP (mould donated by Deputy Al) and of all things, an obsolete Herters' Bullseye-speed powder (donated by ben1025...several pounds of it). These loads run a very comfortable 800 fps, and pressures are moderate while being amply-high for good burning.

It comes down to selecting the right powder for the job. H110/2400/AA9 etc are the WRONG candidates for reduced loads, and Bullseye/700X/ Red Dot etc are equally the wrong candidates for pushing the envelope for high-speed loads in magnum revolver cartridges.

And dammit, I do NOT care how "dirty" the powder is! If the ballistics are consistent and the accuracy is good, I'm a happy camper.

Incidentally, I once spent a nine-week period one summer firing the .303 #4 Enfield ALL day, EVERY day, six days a week....and we had "recreational shooting" on Sundays! I came out of that intensive period a far better rifle shot than when I started. If we're in a serious competition-development program, it's the quality and execution of the PLAN which determines how good the results of training may or may not be. However, the sheer joy of plinking with hundreds of rounds available has a charm all of its own, so long as serious (competition-grade) marksmanship training is not the intent of the shooting. These days, I'm in the latter format, and a bucket full of .45 or .38 ammo represents a great deal of fun and relaxation.

[StarMetal]

I agree with Bruce. One of my favorite powders is Unique. Alot of you have switched to the "new cleaner burning" powders and try to get us who use the "old fashion dirty burning Unique" to change. Guess what, you gun may be a iota cleaner, but I'll out shoot you.[smilie=1:

Joe

[Bad luck Bill]

Comment on powders; clean or dirty, etc: Unique ain't so dirty for me but Bullseye is very dirty, but it's a good powder. Tight Group is ever so slightly cleaner, but not enough so to get people to switch. American select is a very clean burning powder and I've just started to experiment with it. If the accuracy is there then maybe I've found the clean burning powder some of you are looking for. I hear Clays is pretty clean also, but I'm in agreement with the older guys...if it's a good, accurate, powder then a little clean up is well worth it!

Quantity does not equal quality but every so often it's nice to shoot the hell out of a bunch of ammo. Besides that, though, I want quality shots over the quantity, better that I shoot two hundred rounds with the proper technique then 800 with horrible form. I still have only heard one opinion as to sticking with one specific round and one bullet design for training purposes, i.e., reducing group size. Come one guys, I'm new and need some good advice! I've been shooting at 50 feet but think maybe I'll improve a little faster if I shoot at 25 yards, think it might help? I take a few 50 yard shots at clays and stuff, and I hit them, just no consistancy. I come very close most of the time, within a few inches, but that ain't enough to destroy the target!

BLB. :castmine:

[Bass Ackward]

I still have only heard one opinion as to sticking with one specific round and one bullet design for training purposes, i.e., reducing group size. Come one guys, I'm new and need some good advice! BLB. :castmine:


Well .... it really ain't that difficult if you understand the difference between training and working up a load. If I didn't feel comfortable that I could shoot well enough to work up a load, why would I want to waste components and my time? Therefore, I would learn to shoot until I was comfortable that I could master the load.

But there is a ton of assumption here. The first step is to learn how to mold and how to size. That means running your tests to see what diameter apears to work well. Then you have to learn how to reload to make quality ammunition. That sounds like such a simple statement that everyone always says ahhh common. If you can't reload to make quality ammunition, load development isn't going to show you much. Then you will be sick wondering if you need more practice shooting before you work up loads. Once you pat yourself on the back for those accomplishments, then answer the question about proficiency training or working up a load.

How do you know? Compare some of your shooting to factory ammunition. If you can shoot the factory stuff, then maybe you need to revisit the reloading exercise.

[Bad luck Bill]

Bass,

Another foolish question from me, but I thought I was making quality ammo? I though hand crafted ammo was way superior to factory stuff. So...how does one make high quality ammo? I thought I was making good ammo but know you've gone and cast a shadow on things! :mrgreen: Seriously, good powder, good primers, a good shell, trimmed, chamfered, and a good bullet should equal up to a good finished product, correct? As long as the amount of powder is correct and it shoots good then I figured that's what one would call quality ammunition.

Could you give me some good over-all tips for making better ammo then I do now? I've heard that when one seats the bullet they should seat half way then turn the cartridge 180 degrees and seat fully...do you do this? I haven't tried this yet, nor any other tips or tricks considering that I've only been reloading for a few months. Everyone has to start from the beggining and that's where I'm at. I have reloaded thousands of rounds in the short time I've been reloading and have learned some interesting things. That doesn't substitute the advice and experience from someone who really knows what they're doing though.

BLB > :castmine:

[StarMetal]

Bill,

I would feel that seating, stopping, turning 180 and seating the rest of the way would pertain more to rifle bullets. Also if one had to do that I'd go ahead and just buy competition type bullet seaters. I believe the bigger the caliber and longer the bullet, the more they self align themselves. So pistol rounds are a bear to load,for example, the 380. That is because the bullet is so stubby for caliber and weight, that they definately do go in off centered. I don't think I would worry that much with the 38 special. Make sure you have an even mouth flare to get the bullet started too.

Joe

[Bad luck Bill]

Thanks Joe!

[44man]

I have some questions! What in the world is a .38? Does it kick? Is it good for anything? Do guys spend money on these guns? Is it worth loading for?
Oh, okay, good squirrel gun!
HEE HEE, lots of fun picking on toys.

[Bad luck Bill]

Gimmie a break!

[Bad luck Bill]

I'm curious, What can you do without a scope and without a rest with that hand cannon?

[44man]

Very, very well indeed! No different then shooting a .22. Only reason for a scope or red dot is for hunting when the old eyes can't see the sights in the AM and PM. Since that is my primary purpose I leave the scopes on. I will not shoot any worse then you with your .38, with my .475, even with one hand. Now the 45-70 would be a question because it weighs as much as a rifle and I can't hold it out there with one hand.
Besides, I was pulling your leg! I like to shoot the .38 too. It's a gun, it's fun, it makes noise and is accurate. Gee whiz, can't you guys laugh once in a while? I was giggling when I wrote it.

[David R]

Mr 44man,

Did you enter the double action postal match?

David

[44man]

Didn't know about it and I don't have any more double actions. I let my friend talk me out of my SRH. Need a S&W for that anyway, SRH double action sucks.

[Joey]

Bad luck Bill,

I use a 200gr. LFP with 10gr. of 2400 shooting bowling pins at 100yds. with a .357 Ruger Security-Six (6in. bbl.).

Also works with H110 loaded with 12.4gr.

[Bad luck Bill]

Check that out! and that's enough to knock them down at 100 yards? that is pretty good shooting, a little out of my league at this point. Maybe some time in the next year or so I'll be able to hit a bowling at 100 yards, but not yet.

BLB.