Do you really need the beeswax?

[Elkins45]

Ben's Red thread got me to thinking about lube formulas (again). What role does the beeswax play in the typical lube formula? Is it actually an important component in the lubrication or is it mostly just a carrier for the real lube?

Here's why I ask: if the beeswax is just a carrier and stiffener, why not take a tube of Lucas Red n Tacky grease and stiffen it up with a couple of heaping spoonfuls of carnuba wax and maybe a little stearate and lanolin? That way you would have a lube that contained the maximum amount of active ingredient yet was still stiff enough to stay in the grooves for storage.

I'm still trying to reach a nirvana of a stiff and easy to store lube that is still effective.

[fryboy]

ummm i'm no lube cook ( more of a mess maker ) but IMHO it'd need some kinda base ( besides the lithium soap ) not sure that just some carnuba and stearic would be enough perhaps candalia or paraffin? the lanolin would also soften it slightly as well as make it sticky ,my first few lube attempts were actually too slick ( oops )

[357maximum]

Beeswax has little pore/recesses/holes whatever you want to call them that carry the ingredients, microcrystalline waxes have this also.

Paraffin or MACROwax was has pores too but they are far fewer, and far larger so they carry less LUBE and bleed it out alot easier..that is why paraffin is used as a stiffner..it will not carry LUBE as well.................micro/beeswax is like a sponge in a bucket and paraffin is like a bucket with no sponge.....alot easier to make a mess with and nowhere near as good. That is why beeswax/micro's bend and paraffins break at normal temps.

Your Elkins slippery slimeball lube you have posted above would be one heck of a slimy ball of silly putty like goo.............you need a carrier....beeswax or MICROWAX....choose one. You are also going to have waaaaaay to much slippery in there and you will be spraying boolits everywhere....to slippery is worse than not slippery enough. In fact I get some of my best accuracy right on the very hinge of leading. Good lube is a balancing act of slipperies/stickies/ and carriers.

[geargnasher]

My experiences also. Too much slickum=flyers galore. There is a balance to achieve with lubes, and in extreme cases lube has to be crafted for the specific purpose for best results.

357, that's about the best explanation of carriers I've read so far, thanks for sharing.

Gear

[357maximum]

357, that's about the best explanation of carriers I've read so far, thanks for sharing.

Gear

No problem...your welcome although I almost went with styrofoam as an anology for it's handling, but the wife needed my help and I got distracted so here is the rest of it.

Paraffin= that white rigid styrofoam(foam baitbuckets) that breaks up into little round balls=NO BENDY-lots of open space but is capable of holding very little oils before they leak out.

Microwax= that pink and blue stuff they use in house building=Bendy even at low temps in the lower melt point grades and getting less bendy in the higher meltpoint ranges. Holds oil real well due to the smaller more numerous hiding places.

Beeswax= somewhere between the two but leaning closer to the pink/blue stuff=Bendy within it's temperature range...comes real close to a 145degree microwax and acts similar in it's oil hiding properties.

Visually under a microscope the styrofoam anology is real close to the way it really is except there is some fiberous stuff interconnecting the mess.....parraffin has short strings and micro/beeswax has longer strings/fibers/webs holding the mess together...that is why it has more bendy.

[Elkins45]

Your Elkins slippery slimeball lube you have posted above would be one heck of a slimy ball of silly putty like goo.............

Well I thank you for the info, and also for a great name for it should it ever actually be tried. :)

[Hip's Ax]

Microwax= that pink and blue stuff they use in house building.

Please explain?

I found some Microwax sold by art stores. Its pure white. Any good?

Microcrystalline Wax
This synthetic wax comes in one pound blocks. It can be used alone or mixed with paraffin for batik. Also used in encaustic painting as a substitute for the encaustic medium. Melting temperature is 175° F.

http://www.jacquardproducts.com/_img/products/wax/microcrystalline_250w.jpg

[BABore]

Please explain?

I found some Microwax sold by art stores. Its pure white. Any good?

Microcrystalline Wax
This synthetic wax comes in one pound blocks. It can be used alone or mixed with paraffin for batik. Also used in encaustic painting as a substitute for the encaustic medium. Melting temperature is 175° F.

http://www.jacquardproducts.com/_img/products/wax/microcrystalline_250w.jpg

He was using the different types of styrofoam's used in home construction as an anology (to compare and contrast) with the waxes mentioned. The common white styrofoam is hard, crumbles easily, and has little in the way of a porous structure. Thus it is a good comparison to paraffine wax. The pink or blue sheet foam, commonly referred to as "blue board", has more flex and a porous structure that is compariable to microcrystalline wax. Bees wax is inbetween them, leaning more toward microwax.

The microwax you have a pic of is at the top end of the melting point range. The more lube freindly micro waxes are in the 155 F range. Mineral oil, vaseline, microwax, and paraffin all are processed from the same petroleum source, more or less, and are listed is order of refinement from most to least. I'm sure there are quite a few other compounds gathered/removed inbetween them as well. As mentioned, microwax is porous. It actually has an oil content, mainly mineral oil, already in it. It can really be used as a lube as is for alot of loads. Check out the link below.

http://www.blendedwaxes.com/index.php/products/microcrystalline-waxes

[fryboy]

" slimy ball of silly putty like goo............. " i've had a couple attempts turn out like that lolz ,never thought of running a micro wax straight tho ( that's gotta be a pain to apply n lubesize )

[StarMetal]

Microcrystalline wax is a refined mixture of solid, saturated aliphatic hydrocarbons, and produced by de-oiling certain fractions from the petroleum refining process. Microcrystalline waxes differ from refined paraffin wax in that the molecular structure is more branched and the hydrocarbon chains are longer (higher molecular weight). As a result the crystal structure of microcrystalline wax is much finer than paraffin wax, and this directly impacts many of the physical properties. Microcrystalline waxes are tougher, more flexible and generally higher in melting point than paraffin wax. The fine crystal structure also enables microcrystalline wax to bind solvents or oil, and thus prevent the sweating-out of compositions.

It goes through a de-oiling process (which was my job at the Sunoco Oil Refinery in Tulsa, Ok) and the oil content after this process is in the neighborhood of 0.1 and 2 wt %. So it really doesn't have mineral oil in it that you could measure to a usable amount. This is one of the reasons for it's ability to hold (not let seep) oils and other materials.

Micro crystalline waxes are extracted from bright stock.

[357maximum]

" slimy ball of silly putty like goo............. " i've had a couple attempts turn out like that lolz ,never thought of running a micro wax straight tho ( that's gotta be a pain to apply n lubesize )

Not if you buy the right grade of microwax. Anything in the 150 melt temp and down are quite useable all by themselves in loads not pushing the envelope on speed and pressure.............I have done it on more than one occassion, but it falls a bit short on slickum at upper end or with looong barrels.


The lower the meltpoint of microwax the more liquid "stuff" it contains. That is why some people have great luck with toilet bowl rings as and additive to lube.......it is very a soft microwax in essence so is vasoline to a bigger extent.

[fryboy]

i actually have a decent lube with umm slack wax lolz it's tacky and sticks fairly well ( actually alot better than all my barry darr lube attempts ) i made it just soft enough to go on at room temp ,it isnt the most aromatic of lubes but .... anyways most the heavy wax lubes i try tend to not stick so good to the grooves without the addition of lanolin or slack wax ,i'll have to try to incorporate some micro in a future endeavor ( thanx amigo ! )

[gray wolf]

I have been using Microcrystalline wax ( pure white in color ) it is in the 130--140* melt range.
I mix about 6 OZ. with a table spoon of Jojoba oil. It has been a great lube for my 45 acp
and for the 32 acp. It also works with a little Bees Wax added to it.
It is a simple and easy to make lube. I am happy with it.

Star Metal What you think ?

Sam

[phishroy]

i got hold of some micro wax that has a melt point of 180 f, it feels very soft and i can bend a 1 inch thick bit of it with my hands and even pinch off small bits of it with my fingers, any opinions if its usable?

[357maximum]

i got hold of some micro wax that has a melt point of 180 f, it feels very soft and i can bend a 1 inch thick bit of it with my hands and even pinch off small bits of it with my fingers, any opinions if its usable?

A " bendy" 180 micro would be very useful.....carry on and report back.

Was this wax for the arts, sculptures and crafts as a normal use?....could you please name it, as most 180 degree micros are not what I would call super bendy. If you find it is lacking in "slick" in long barrels a touch of vasoline or mineral oil should help it.

[phishroy]

I got it from someone that distributes wax for industrial uses.
Im not sure what exactly its used for.

[bruce381]

Microcrystalline wax is a refined mixture of solid, saturated aliphatic hydrocarbons, and produced by de-oiling certain fractions from the petroleum refining process. Microcrystalline waxes differ from refined paraffin wax in that the molecular structure is more branched and the hydrocarbon chains are longer (higher molecular weight). As a result the crystal structure of microcrystalline wax is much finer than paraffin wax, and this directly impacts many of the physical properties. Microcrystalline waxes are tougher, more flexible and generally higher in melting point than paraffin wax. The fine crystal structure also enables microcrystalline wax to bind solvents or oil, and thus prevent the sweating-out of compositions.

It goes through a de-oiling process (which was my job at the Sunoco Oil Refinery in Tulsa, Ok) and the oil content after this process is in the neighborhood of 0.1 and 2 wt %. So it really doesn't have mineral oil in it that you could measure to a usable amount. This is one of the reasons for it's ability to hold (not let seep) oils and other materials.

Micro crystalline waxes are extracted from bright stock.

Well said but now is Holly, I buy some of the 150 bright.