Lee furnace pouring problem

[plaz]

I have a lee Pro 4 20 lb furnace and I have been having a heck of a problem adjusting the pouring rate. I keep adjusting the screw to decrease flow but I find very slight movement of the knob causes such high flow that it throws the lead out of the mold. I am having trouble moving the knob such a slight amount required to obtain normal flow of lead into the mold.

Is there some adjustment I can make to eliminate that tremendous sensitivity of flow rate when moving the knob up for pouring?

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Mine is very sensitive also. It seems that above 700 deg. , I can make it work but it is very sensitive to any adjustment. I also have the mould less than 1/2 an inch from the spout.

[cajun shooter]

Welcome to the world of the Lee Pro 20 pot. Wait till the entire thing comes apart with a full pot of 750 degree lead. This forum is plum full of discussions on the Lee pots with problems. You are lucky if you have not had the famous Lee drip yet. Do a search if you want a weeks readings.

[zuke]

Disassemble the control and give it all a good cleaning.
I had the same problem, turn's out some **** was trapped between the rod and spout so I got erratic flow.
I also turned in the screw 1/4 turn at a time while casting to get a good idea where I wanted it, then turned it 1/8's from there.
The steel flow control pin is lighter then the molten lead and just like oil on water it want's to float to the top.
I use the control screw to hold the pin down, and my pot never goes below 2/3's full.

[Charlie Two Tracks]

I've taken mine apart and cleaned it quite well. Still drips. I will have to a better look at it so I can see why it is not sealing.

[jr81452]

Four steel washers. Adds weight to the handle. Improves flow control and eliminated my drip. Also keeps my handle from heating up like it used to. Nothing is beyond human ingenuity.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6438/p1000571o.jpg

[Charlie Two Tracks]

Thanks jr81452. I will give that a try.

[William Yanda]

Thanks for the tip. Looks much more convenient than the small vice grips mentioned elsewhere. I have yet to use my 4-20 but hope to soon.

[runfiverun]

i put a chunk of fence wire on the bottom of the pot to stop how high the handle raises the pin.
this slows the flow to a consistant flow.

[tomme boy]

Also epoxy the handle on to the bolt. If you don't do it now, you will later.

[.30/30 Guy]

I cured mine with an RCBS.

[geargnasher]

Plaz, there is an adjusting screw at the top of the pot. The edge of the head of the screw rides in a groove in the top end of the valve pintle. You can adjust this screw by turning it clockwise IIRC) until you can't open the valve at all by lifting the wood handle. It's a stop point for the valve. Adjust it until the valve just barely opens, then go in 1/8-turn increments in the "open" direction until it flows like you like. You can adjust from a dribble to wide open in about one turn of that machine screw.

Gear

[geargnasher]

PS, all of you who have Lee pots that you hate and want to junk, I'll give you a few bucks plus shipping or trade alloy if you haven't buggared them up too bad. Pics please, PM if interested.

Gear

[Mk42gunner]

Disassemble the control and give it all a good cleaning.
I had the same problem, turn's out some **** was trapped between the rod and spout so I got erratic flow.
I also turned in the screw 1/4 turn at a time while casting to get a good idea where I wanted it, then turned it 1/8's from there.
The steel flow control pin is lighter then the molten lead and just like oil on water it want's to float to the top.
I use the control screw to hold the pin down, and my pot never goes below 2/3's full.

When you have the pot empty and are cleaning it, go ahead and lap the valve rod into the seat. It is ridicuously easy on a 4-20 since the valve rod sits straight in the seat.


Plaz, there is an adjusting screw at the top of the pot. The edge of the head of the screw rides in a groove in the top end of the valve pintle. You can adjust this screw by turning it clockwise IIRC) until you can't open the valve at all by lifting the wood handle. It's a stop point for the valve. Adjust it until the valve just barely opens, then go in 1/8-turn increments in the "open" direction until it flows like you like. You can adjust from a dribble to wide open in about one turn of that machine screw.

Gear

Like Gear said; shut off the flow, then adjust in small increments.

I used a 4-20 for a few years, once I got the flow to where I was comfortable with it, I never touched the adjustment again. I would still be using it if I hadn't gotten an RCBS Promelt for $80 at an auction.

I still have it for back-up and using different alloys.

Robert

[Recluse]

I cured mine with an RCBS.

Best and surest cure. I simply plugged mine up and use it for ladle casting. Second best and surest cure.


PS, all of you who have Lee pots that you hate and want to junk, I'll give you a few bucks plus shipping or trade alloy if you haven't buggared them up too bad. Pics please, PM if interested.

Gear

Here's the thing, Gear--

Lee knows they have a piece of absolute junk on the market.

They don't care.

That's the bottom line. And since that's the bottom line with John and Dick and Pat, then I've got another "bottom" for some of their junk, and that's the bottom of Lake Texoma or Lake Ray Roberts.

I bought two Lee Pro 4-20 pots after I donated my old and ancient Pro Melt and Rock Chucker to a returning Iraq vet.

Initially I thought these pots were pretty good. One went out to the hangar where I do light casting and reloading, the other went to my shop where I do the lion's share of stuff.

Had both pots about four years, one saw light use and the other saw heavy use.

The one that saw light use had two sheet metal screws FALL OUT--one of those screws was STRIPPED. Where is the QC for that??? That happened in the factory.

Took the pot apart and cleaned, drilled, tapped, loved and cooed over the ***. Reassembled, used lightly for another year or so. The screws holding the handle came off, lead went all over the table, onto the hangar floor and that did it.

Filled the SOB up to the top with lead, anchored an eye-bolt in it, and it now serves as a trotline anchor--something i can FINALLY rely on it to do.

The pot in the workshop? Plugged it and now using it for a ladle casting pot. Will keep my eye open for another RCBS. Don't do enough volume casting to warrant a Magma--pot or Star luber.

I've defended Lee for the better part of almost thirty years, but in just the last two years, I'm running out of patience with them REAL fast.

Just like their adjustable powder charge bar. They KNOW they have a problem and they've ADMITTED it's faulty, but damned if they don't continue to keep cranking it out. I submit that if someone gets a squib and blows their gun and/or hand up, they should sue the Lees out of business.

If that's not product liability, I don't know what is.

I don't mind fiddling with things, for the most part. I fiddled with the Dillon 550 when I had one. I fiddle with my daddy's 450. I've fiddled with molds and lubesizers and I fiddled with that old Pro Melt I got when I came back from my second tour of service in '91.

Fiddling is one thing. Having things flat come apart is another. Having the company who made them blame YOU for their stripped screws and KNOWN defects is entirely another.

I admire the innovation Lee puts into their products. I'm fairly keen on my Classic Turret and expecting to be the same with the Classic Cast single stage when it arrives. I've loaded over 100,000 .38 Special rounds on my old Pro1000 and probably half that many in 9mm and .380 combined. I get aggravated at it to be sure, but I've definitely gotten my $99 dollars worth from it I paid in '87.

When I retire it, I'm going to frame it. :)

But again, the Classic Cast will be my last Lee purchase in all likelihood. I can get RCBS and Hornady dies for almost the same price as Lees these days, and given the dismal quality of their molds in the past few years, the time and expense of continuously shipping them back to Midway (because Lee tells you your "alloy is all wrong" :rolleyes:) will almost pay for a much superior mold.

I've defended Lee for a long time. But it keeps getting harder, and I'm not nearly as inclined to do so with a blanket statement.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

:2_high5: The image of that pot serving as a trotline anchor is hilarious! What's the Loadmaster doing? Fish structure? :kidding:

I've been asking to buy Lee bottom-pour pots from disgruntled customers for a couple of years now, everybody loves to gripe and moan and bash them, but nobody has ever bothered to offer to sell me one they didn't like. I have a PID controller setup, a Miller TiG welder, and some valve grinding compound, all a fellow needs to make a $50 Lee pot work like a $400 one. I've used a Saeco pot, several Lymans, and an RCBS. I'll take the Lee and spend the saved money where it really counts, like on three more Accurate Mold moulds, thank you, but cheap, persnickety Lee BP pots sure aren't for everybody.

Gear

[Recluse]

:2_high5: The image of that pot serving as a trotline anchor is hilarious! What's the Loadmaster doing? Fish structure? :kidding:

Never owned a Loadmaster. I already have enough time racked up in Purgatory for my cussing over a Pro1000 and a 550 when I was trying to figure out how to set both of them up. :)

Lot more things to consider on a Dillon, and nobody but nobody writes lousier instructions than Lee. [smilie=b:


I've been asking to buy Lee bottom-pour pots from disgruntled customers for a couple of years now, everybody loves to gripe and moan and bash them, but nobody has ever bothered to offer to sell me one they didn't like. I have a PID controller setup, a Miller TiG welder, and some valve grinding compound, all a fellow needs to make a $50 Lee pot work like a $400 one. I've used a Saeco pot, several Lymans, and an RCBS. I'll take the Lee and spend the saved money where it really counts, like on three more Accurate Mold moulds, thank you, but cheap, persnickety Lee BP pots sure aren't for everybody.

Gear

Like I explained once before--there is a rather nice satisfaction about taking a piece of junk and tossing it overboard to where it can become structure for the crappies and catfish.

In fact, some might even say it's priceless.

:coffee:

[geargnasher]

Dang, Recluse, I thought you drowned a Loadmaster too, maybe I'm thinking of all the other folks who have. Y'all can have your fun with those contraptions, the Pro-1000 is plenty to keep me entertained. I remember your explanation last time you and I were discussing the de-merits of some of Lee's bargain-priced equipment, my remarks about not offering their furnaces to me were directed more at the others who I haven't heard from yet!

My solution to machinery that doesn't work is to "trouble shoot" it. If it gives me trouble, I shoot it! (unless I can sell it to someone who knows exactly what they're getting). That's a little trick my father taught me. We hauled a literal pile of lawnmowers, chainsaws, and string trimmers from behind his storage shed to salvage when prices went up a couple of years ago. The yard hand that helped us unload them noted the numerous bullet holes in each piece, several different calibers including buckshot, birdshot, .30 caliber, .357, etc. Dad explained he was really good at troubleshooting small engines, especially two-cycle engines. Needless to say, I make him leave his pistol in the truck when we go out on the lake together! The death rate of machinery at his house has declined in the last two years since I finally managed to convince him that gasoline doesn't store for a year in a plastic fuel tank like it used to 30 years ago.

Ya think maybe I ruined some of the old man's fun?

Gear

[ku4hx]

I have the same problem on both my Lyman pots. I can make the fine adjustments needed by keeping the set nut loose and using the tip of an old 4" kitchen knife in place of a screw driver. The large knife handle and tiny blade tip give me the fine adjustment needed. I hold the knife between thumb and forefinger. Any other hold leads to over adjustment.

[Lizard333]

I have a lee 10 and the 20 and love them both. I get an occasional drip on the 10 but never had problems with the 20. I don't understand the dislike of the lee products. They are cheap and do the job. I could buy 10 lee pots for what the expensive ones go for.

I got into reloading to save money. Lee fills that nitch. The way I look at it I'm saving money by purchasing lee products. I don't put a lot of expectations on them, but have been pleasantly surprised with every purchase.

Gear, could you go into details the mods you gave done with your lee pots, they sound like something I might end up doing!!

[Texantothecore]

There is a screw on the top of the melt furnace walls that the pouring mechanism sits on. I had somewhat the same problem and found that the screw had worked its way out and was standing pretty tall. Next time you pour, look at that screw and tighten it down with your hand, not a wrench. I do this everytime I fire the pot up and it works fine. Now it is just part of the start up routine.

Good luck.

[geargnasher]

Lizard333, I had some screws strip out on my Pro 4-20 that are a pain to fix, several other people have had the same problem. It's a matter of ignorance on my part that it became problem that had to eventually be welded.

The shoulder bolts that the valve control mechanism slides on are screwed into a thin channel in the ends of the aluminum outer shell, and are self-tapping and very prone to stripping. The bottom one kept working loose during a session and I'd forget to snug it when the pot cooled down. Eventually I got a wrench on it during a session and stripped it out. I had to disassemble the pot liner and take the side panels out, put the screws back into the channels and peen the metal back around the screw threads. I then built up a little aluminum with the TiG torch to close the gap around the screw so the channel couldn't spread and strip again.

Lapping the valve pintle and seat should be pretty much self-explanatory. It doesn't take a lot of lapping to get it perfect.

I removed the spout and peened the bottom hole smaller, then drilled it for uniformity. This is no small task, the spout is made from some pretty hard steel, but the results were worth it, it now drops a finer stream and I can leave the pintle lift adjustment wide-open. The disadvantage is that I can't get fillout with any but the smallest moulds when the pot is only 1/4 full or below, but that's ok, the temps get wacky when it's that low anyway, so I just cast between 1/3 and 3/4 most of the time. I can't for the life of me remember what size hole I drilled for the spout, it was only about a 25% reduction in size, but it made a big difference. If you're casting huge boolits like 500-grain .45 or .50 calibers and don't have a good Rowell casting ladle, you might want to leave the spout as it is.

Other than the screws stripping out and the valve surfaces needing a lap, I haven't had a minute's issue with my pot as long as I do two things: Keep trash off the bottom of the pot liner, and keep the moving parts of the valve linkage lubricated with Bullplate or full-synthetic caliper slide grease. This includes the outside of the spout where it guides the valve lift arm.

Mine has cast around 6-700 pounds of boolits in the last few years, and since I got it's issues ironed out, have had not one single drip or problem with it at all in over a year. Really, not a single drip since I lapped the pintle and learned to stop scraping the bottom with my wooden stir stick.

Gear

[1bluehorse]

:2_high5: The image of that pot serving as a trotline anchor is hilarious! What's the Loadmaster doing? Fish structure? :kidding:

I've been asking to buy Lee bottom-pour pots from disgruntled customers for a couple of years now, everybody loves to gripe and moan and bash them, but nobody has ever bothered to offer to sell me one they didn't like. I have a PID controller setup, a Miller TiG welder, and some valve grinding compound, all a fellow needs to make a $50 Lee pot work like a $400 one. I've used a Saeco pot, several Lymans, and an RCBS. I'll take the Lee and spend the saved money where it really counts, like on three more Accurate Mold moulds, thank you, but cheap, persnickety Lee BP pots sure aren't for everybody.

Gear

I'm a disgruntled Lee 4-20 pot owner also. :x I cured the problem with mine like so many others did, bought an RCBS Pro Melt. 8-) However, the reason I won't send you mine is because I THINK I can find a useful purpose for it. Not as a bottom pour (bottom dripper actually better describes mine) but by taking MY Miller tig welder and welding the bottom closed and use it as a premelt to reflux my alloy(to keep my new RCBS cleaner :-) or ladle casting (never tried that, but this may be a good opportunity to start) or maybe even as a small smelter. Haven't decided yet. I've never said the Lee wouldn't melt lead, it does, but the uneven temps and constant drip, I'd finally had enough. By the way the RCBS was $341.00 shipped to my house two months ago, AND WORTH EVERY CENT.......[smilie=w:

[mpmarty]

Guess I'm just weird. My 4-20 pro melt is over five years old and no problems.

[44wcf]

I have had 2 of them for 5 or 6 years.
No problem other than the drip, and the small vice grips solved that.
Have cast many, many boolits with them.

[Lizard333]

Gear what is your PID controller set up?? I am going to assume it regulates the temperature of the pot.

[popper]

I just built one using the Aubrin small controller and 1000 deg probe. Put in a 2x3x5 cast alum hobby box with an old CPU heatsink bolted on top of the box, above an SSR I already had. Used an extension cord cut in half for connections. Works great, not warm to the touch, measure temp of mould and controls the Lee pot temp. Took 1/2 hour to cut a square hole in the panel with a dremel cutoff disk, about 5 min to wire it. Consistency makes better bullets. Only problem now is trying to hit the sprue holes in the sixbanger 30-30 mould from an inch away. Haven't had any problems with the Lee pot yet, I see many ideas here to solve problems I may encounter(got to find some fender washers in my junk box). As for stripped sheet metal screws, just apply some JB weld and re-tap the holes. Only other problem is finding a new shooting range, the city is trying to close the one close by.

[geargnasher]

Lizard, it's similar to Popper's. The trick was getting an AC controlled AC SSR, many of them are DC switched for some reason. Heat sink for the SSR because it will cook itself if it doesn't have one. I just strung everything together in a steel box, ran the SSR in line outside the box, and had an outlet to plug the pot into. Just stick the thermocouple probe in the pot, plug into the PID outlet, plug the cut-off extension cord into the wall, turn the pot thermostat on 10, and it's off to the races. More often than not, I find myself just using a thermometer since I only work in the middle of the pot's capacity and temps stay pretty consistent with the factory thermostat.

Gear

[prs]

So far as I know, I've never had trouble out of screws stripping or getting loose. My wood lift handles have stayed put too, so far (knocking on wood). I've had these for years and years, truck loads of alloy through them. I did get the Leaorrhea when scraping with a wood spatula and have gone back to using a steel putty knife and boolit lube for flux. Reckon I better check those screws, gently so.

prs

ps: Checked the top screw in question this AM and both pots did have slightly loose screws. Also, I thought about how Jack said he used vice grips on the valve needle to ballist it. I have a couple of tap handles that I seldom use that might fit that bill if they should begin to dribble again.