85 Ranch Dogs...

[Fire_stick]

wrapped and ready for duty.

Bullets are RD TLC311-165-FN, sized to .307, then 3 wraps of cigarette paper for .3115" diameter. After final sizing, diameter will be .309". Then they will be loaded into 308 Marlin Express cases for load development.

Should have time to test the loads in a little more than 2 weeks. Hope to find a "go to" deer cartridge for the 2010 season.

22744

[docone31]

Lookin good!
I might wrap them a little higher up. I like to run my patches up where it bears on the nose also.
Good, tight, wraps.
Why not use two wraps of lined notebook paper? They will size the same way.
Lookin forward to test results.

[rhbrink]

Can't wait for a report on those babies! I'm in on a group buy for the NOE version of one of those, planning on using them in a Mosin for deer hunting I hope, if they will work out.

[Nobade]

You may have problems by not patching them over the ogive so lead can't touch the bore. But give them a try and see what happens! I wish I had gotten in on that mold buy.

[303Guy]

A trick I tried and failed was to lube the exposed lead. The problem is that the lube soaks into the cig paper and 'glues' it to the core. I have however, done the same trick with a semi-patch. I cut the exposed patch off and dipped lubed the bore-ride nose section. That was with printer paper and a molten wax based lube. Ther was no leading and the patch spun the boolit with no rifling shear. Not range tested for accuracy!

[Fire_stick]

Update:
All the cases are sized and primed. I just can't find the time to finish. Too much traveling. Hopefully this weekend the commitments will be few.

[barrabruce]

Interested to see how they fly for you.

I'm working on a similar project.

Painted alox on the exposed nose and let dry on there ends.

[Zeek]

Our main luxury is that, mostly, we are dealing with old-design military rifles. For the most part, these have a leade cone that starts close to the casemouth but starts over CBoo diameter and has an included angle that is pretty shallow. This allows us to experiment with all manner of PPCBoo designs: long; short; single-diameter; two-diameter-with-nose-&-bands-patched; and two-diameter-with-only-bands-patched.

"Modern" throating designs give no such latitude. For example, the 308 Winch-Yer-Chester has a ~0.3" long neck. The transition cone to the throating is 45 degrees per side (a sharp angle and it doesn't use up much distance), then you have a 0.310" diameter throat cylinder 0.17" long, ending in a three-degree-inclangle leade cone. That means that, if the base of your PPCBoo is not going to stick below the base of the neck, that you have a drive band max length of 0.47". Add a point onto that baby and you have a very light max-weight PPCBoo.

Under such a situation, THE ONLY WAY to get reasonable bullet weight is to add on a bore-riding nose between the point and the drive band section. You can fix that by just lengthening the throat ~~~> for example, keep the 0.310" throat cylinder diameter but move the leade cone out to ~0.5" ahead of the casemouth, thereby allowing one to chamber a round in which the band section is up to 0.8" long. Or, if you will allow the PPCBoo's rear end to be up to 0.2" below the caseneck, a PPCBoo with a drive band section up to 1.0" long. The only trouble with that is that it is a one-of-a-kind beastie-pooh.

There seem to be very few options for shooting heavy-for-the-caliber PPCBoos in rifles with modern throating designs. So, the only real possumability is finding HOW to shoot a two-caliber PPatched design with accuracy, and at more than the usual ~2100 fps easy-accuracy-speed-limit that GC-&-lube-groove CBoos face.

To do that, you cannot patch the nose unless you can size down the nose separately from the band section. A normal-diameter nose, if you add a PPatch, just will not chamber. Period. So, bare-nose it is and THAT is the only option we have. If we cannot learn how to make that work, then we must stick with old military rifles or modify the throat on a rifle with a modern chambering. If I am missing something, here, please let me know.
Regards, Zeek

[barrabruce]

Yep I think you got it Zeek.

That and I think a gentle transition between the nose and land section of the core/wrap wouldn't hurt none either with the sharp angles.

I shot some 150 grns yesterday. The nose section is smaller than my bore dia. Patched to just in front of the lube grooves and painted alox on the nose for good luck. Just in case.
Near full loads no leading and accuracy was pretty good with a near case full of slow burning powder.
I seated these back 20 thou clearance from the lands and they are wrapped to pretty well groove diameter.
I think a bit of a speed before they hit the brick wall ..mean sharp transition helps to overcome some for the friction / momentum or what ever happens there from a standing start.

I would really like to get rid of that jump up and have one straight taper from the case size free bore bit to the bore.
Either that of find cases with "extra long necks" it wouldn't hurt none either.

Hell a chamber that actually ends at the end of the case. Wow that'd be nice.

Barra

[SciFiJim]

3 wraps of cigarette paper

I bet when you bought the papers and told them it was to roll some boolits, they probably thought it was a new name for wacky tabaki cigs.:kidding:

[Zeek]

. . . then 3 wraps of cigarette paper . . . .

Fire_Stick: Have you found a source for that stuff where you can buy it in normal-size sheets or in a roll? I am thinking of giving it a try, even though such rice paper is known to have in it micro-crystalline silica which, at 7 on the Moh's Hardness Scale, is as hard as a hardened-&-tempered knife blade (WAY harder than barrel steel). Still, if it WORKs, then I'll just have to roll me some!
Zeek

[barrabruce]

I fold my papers in half so I get 4 wraps.
Those long wide type made out of "hemp" papers may be worth a trail.
But they are expensive.

Any one tried that look through crepe wraping paper.
I think I tried some but it designated when wet worse than cig papers.

My attempts with one or two thickness cig papers seem to fail me.

Althou a small core nose will show engraving from the lands.
When measured they were still the same under size diameter.
Maybe not getting off the bullet in one nice petal.

Maybe one has to adhere the front nose portion on a 2 dia PP boo.
Errghh.

Not saying it can't be done but hasn't worked for me yet.

Bruce

[Fire_stick]

I finally got about 40 cartridges loaded this past weekend. Turns out the bullets were a 50/50 mix of clip on and stick on ww's. I am not sure what I was thinking when I cast them. The hardness is around 10BHN.

I thought about starting over, but figured I would go a head and see what happens. So I loaded them light for about 2200 fps from the 308 Marlin Express. Now to shoot'em.

Made it to the ranch house this evening, but with only 30 minutes of daylight left. I was able to shoot about 8 rounds. Had some other issues with the gun. The first few shots didn't even hit the target, but sailed over the target. No time to monkey with the scope, so I aimed lower and got a fairly wide group, but a group. Not as scientific as I was hoping to make it.

Tomorrow, I hope I will have time to take my time and settle the scope.

Ran the bore snake through the barrel and no leading.

[Fire_stick]

I bet when you bought the papers and told them it was to roll some boolits, they probably thought it was a new name for wacky tabaki cigs.:kidding:

When I told the guy what I was doing, he proceeded to tell me what he was packing, and about all the crazies he sees come in the store!

[Fire_stick]

Fire_Stick: Have you found a source for that stuff where you can buy it in normal-size sheets or in a roll? I am thinking of giving it a try, even though such rice paper is known to have in it micro-crystalline silica which, at 7 on the Moh's Hardness Scale, is as hard as a hardened-&-tempered knife blade (WAY harder than barrel steel). Still, if it WORKs, then I'll just have to roll me some!
Zeek

I am using Bugler cigarette paper. If I can make this work, the price is a whole lot less than gas checks! But a little more time consuming.

[Fire_stick]

Bullets are too soft. I should've known better. But no leading.

Regroup and reload.

[Fire_stick]

Finally had some time to revisit this one. Wound up recasting and water dropping bullets. Sized to .309", with gas check (I was really trying to get away from the GC, but results where not good without). Then wrapped with the Bugler paper (2 wraps). Resized again to .309".

Here are the results.
25982

I mis-marked one of load 2's bullet holes. The one labeled 2 on the left is actually from group 1. I have no idea what happened on group 2, with the bullet hole on the far right. I swear I did not flinch. But, not bad considering I don't have a stable rest.

I will load some more and see if the next loads are repeatable, and then test at 100 yards.

[rhbrink]

Looks like you're getting there a little more tweaking maybe. Have you tried moving the paper patch farther up on the nose? With the little bit of paper patching that I have done I had horrible results with the nose of the boolit exposed like the first picture you. That was with a old warhorse Mosin with a badly pitted bore maybe a new barrel with good rifling would'nt cause that problem.