357 158gr. USPSA major load??

[ItZaLLgooD]

I need some suggestions for a major power 357 with the TL358-158-SWC. Will the tumble lube boolit present a problem in the 357? I loaded up some lubed with 45-45-10 jpw/alox with 14 grs of 2400. I only shot 6 of them with no real leading and decent recoil but I have a feeling I'll need a little more speed for a major load. These will be shot out of a 4 inch model 66.

[KYCaster]

Don't depend on somebody else's load to make major in your gun. If you don't run it across a chrono you're gonna be disappointed.

Jerry

[anachronism]

It doesn't matter what they chrono in other peoples guns. You're the one who will get disqualified if your load doesn't make major in your gun. You need to chronograph the load through your gun.

[ItZaLLgooD]

I kinda figured that I would need a chrono sooner or later. For now I just want to practice up with a major'ish load in the revolver.

What kind of variation can I expect between guns? Both my brother and I are looking at getting new 7-8 shot 357's later this year. I really don't want to load 2 different rounds.

What about the TL boolit? Am I going to get good results at major velocities?

For now I am shooting my Glock 22 to get my feet wet in the competition. I am not looking to set the world on fire with my scores, just become a better shooter and have fun doing it.

[MtGun44]

The TL system seems to be marginal lube system at best, success seems to be mostly in
the low pressure and low velocity arena, NOT where you are going.

I would suggest the Lee 358-158-RF in a 6 cav since you will be using a lot of them. I have
driven this boolit, made from air cooled wwts at high vel in Ruger and multiple S&W pistols
with excellent accy and no leading. IIRC, the load was 16.3 gr of H110, but check out the
loading manuals (or Hodgdon's excellent online loading data) before you duplicate this.
I use a mag primer and good solid crimp in the crimp groove.

If you are using guns made by the same manufacturer and the chambers and barrels are
pretty much the same, the velocities will be very close. I have seen 1911s with factory Colt
barrels with loose chambers and generous throats run 125fps slower than a Barstow or other
tight chambered match barrel in .45 ACP, same ammo.

With same model revolvers, I'd expect very similar results. Good luck.

I love my 586 +1 6", it is accurate as heck with the above load.

Bill

[Dale53]

I also second the Lee 358-158-RF. It is an extremely accurate bullet and you shouldn't have any difficulty making major with that. H110 or 296 are my full power .357 mag powders of choice but many successfully use 2400.

Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Here's a story you'll find interesting;

Back in the day before chorny's were available for 100 bucks they used "pendulem's" to determine minor/major load levels. It was cheap and easy to set one up: a swinging plate with a protractor mounted on it with a pointer. You set the major load with 230 grain WW ball ammo anything less was minor anything more, or equal, was major.

Simple huh! By the way it might be easier for you to make a pendulem than to buy a chorny but that's up to you. Here's a tip though: a pendulem is made to be shot a chrony is not!

Now for the story: in 1980 I attended a national IPSC event here in So Cal, one of the first that was testing ammo. Sure enough a pendulem was used not a chrongraph.

As we all stood in line waiting for our ammo to be tested we were "exposed" to very "mouthy" "Gamer" who was busy telling anyone who would listen, and many that didn't want to, how awesome his S&W model 19 was! He had it completely "tricked" out. No need for Pachmyers He had a roll of "friction tape" and wrapped his wood grips with that because it gave a better feel than Pach'ys! His load was the best that could be asymbled by anyone other than gods of Greek mythology so he would have no trouble being "major"!

His turn to test ammo came, he was in line ahead of me, the tester had brought several of his own guns to use and his 357 test mule was a 4 inch Python.

Sample rounds were selected from the ammo supplied and fired for effect. Three round fired and three rounds made Major but barely.

Most shooters would take the win and go compete but not Mr. Mouthy! He went into a 5 minute tirade about how his load in his gun ( a 6 inch Model 19) would have flattened the pendulem! Basically threatened to go to the match officals with a complaint!

Realizing the only way to get rid of this guy was to re shoot the test using the end users gun, 6 rounds were selected from the ammo supply and fired at the pendulem.

Here's the lesson to be learned: none of the 6 rounds fired in the 6 inch barreled Model 19 made Major! Mr. Mouthy was dumbfounded!

He was also knocked down to Minor and told he now had a reason to go complain if he felt the need but the rules were clear and he was gonna shoot minor period!

My suggestion is work up a load that delivers what you want and then test it in both guns! How you test the loads is not as important as making sure your testing device is acurrate!

One other thought here: used to be the difference in Major and Minor was the points on the "periffereal" hits. Instead of 4's and 2's you got 3's and 1's.

Dead center was still a 5. My theory was if I only shot 5's it didn't matter what my power level was.

That is food for thought.

[ItZaLLgooD]

Good points. It's not looking good for the TL boolit. I kinda figured that it might be a problem.

I got in to casting for cheap. I knew that I would have to get a lube/sizer sooner or later.

I am ging to try to get access to a chrono to work up some loads to see what I can get out of the TL boolits that I have cast up.

[jmsj]

ItZaLLgood,
Keep us posted on your testing.
The other night I casted, sized and lubed about 500 of the same TL358-158-SWC for my wife. I also used 45/45/10 for lube.
Last week while looking for some 45 Colt brass in the loading bench, I found a coffee can w/ 500 sized, trimmed and primed pieces of .357 magnum brass. It got me thinking about doing something similar. Thanks jmsj

[AzShooter]

I've not had a problem with TL bullets making Major. The 358 158 RN is the better bullet

You need a velocity of 1045 fps from that bulle Bullseye will do a good job at almost max. 6.8 grains. Blue Dot will feel better and will take about 9 grains. Good luck.
The Blue Dot load will produce a nice flame during night shoots.

[ItZaLLgooD]

Keep us posted on your testing.

Will do. I have been shooting them unsized at about .360. No problems with 4.5 grains of Unique in 38 brass. I tried some unsized in 357 brass and had a few that wouldn't chamber, so I am getting together a push through sizer to remedy the situation. At higher velocities I can only imagine that a proper fit is more critical.


You need a velocity of 1045 fps from that bulle Bullseye will do a good job at almost max. 6.8 grains. Blue Dot will feel better and will take about 9 grains. Good luck.
The Blue Dot load will produce a nice flame during night shoots.

I like fire:-P

Is BlueDot easier on a cast boolit than the 2400?

From some of the numbers that I have seen around the net the 14 grains of 2400 should be getting me somewhere in the ballpark. Won't know until I can find/ borrow a chonograph. In the TL sticky Recluse says that I should be able to get magnum velocity with out much issue with his recipe, so far so good.

[EDK]

Have you investigated TITEGROUP, HP-38, UNIQUE or HERCO... a lot more loads per pound and pistol shooting requires a lot more practice rounds to be competitive.

A round nose or round nose/flat point is a good choice for reloading with speed loaders. I really like LYMAN 358665 and now the NOE 360 180 WFN....the 180 might be an easier way to make major without excessive muzzle blast.

:Fire::castmine::redneck:

[AzShooter]

180s are definately the way to go if you are shooting a .38 or a .357. The recoil isn't bad. I've been experimenting with LBT 180s for the past few months and have a couple of good loads.

Cast them hard and use loads from the Sierra manual for jacketed bullets and you won't have a problem. My 5.4 grains of Unique is MAX and should be approached with caution. It will gorup 1/2 inch at 25 yards and is the best load I've come up with.

I do shoot minor most of the time because of cast and recoil.

When you are going for major stay away from the FAST powders. Too dangerous and too much pressure. You need 1045 fps with a 158 grain bullet. You only need 916 with a 180 grainer. A gentle push on the bullet is better for accuracy that a slam with hot powder but you can never tell until you test in your gun and use a chrono.

LBT makes a great mold for the 180s. I asked Veral to make mine with a RN for speed loaders and he did. Saeco makes another good mold. It's a TC and works real well also. Not as well as my LBT mold. I use wheel weights and water quench or a BNH of 22 making them plenty hard.

[ItZaLLgooD]

I kind of want to stay with the 158er's because I carry with 158 gr. XTP's. I originally started this thread to get an idea of powders. I didn't think that 2400 was my best bet. I like the BlueDot idea. I have tried Unique but the Alliant book that I have only lists the max at 6 grains with velocity right around 1000 fps for the 158 LSWC, which isn't enough getty up for major. It basically was a 38+p.

[357Mag]

Itzall-

Howdy -

14.5gr WW296 CCI SP Mag primer decent crimp.

Please be sure to check cartridge OAL, esp to make sure they fit any "N"-frame
use.

Worked for me.

Regards,
357Mag

[ItZaLLgooD]

I am currently shooting an older model 66 which is a K frame. I am checking out the Taurus 608 which should be closer to an N frame.

[anachronism]

Be gentle with that K frame! It was never intended to live on a long-term diet of hot loads. I'd recommend a 686 or a Ruger GP100 if you're going to shoot it a lot.

[ItZaLLgooD]

That's why I'm looking at replacing it with a bigger gun. It sure does shoot nice though.

[bobthenailer]

ive been shooting a revolver in action pistol since the mid 80, safarland speed loaders, or full moon clips, round nose bullets only , chamferd cylinder charge holes. currently i have 2, 8 shot S&W revolvers with full moon clips one standard and 1 compensated from the performance center + my old 686.
as for powder , in a non comp gun i would use the fastest powder that you can make major with
you should have no problem with BE or tight group, that is what i use . in a comp barrel use a med to slow powder to get the most effectvines from the comp.

bob

[AzShooter]

Stay away from the Taurus 608. I've seen too many not last long. The first thing that goes is timing. You need to replace the hand and it will probably take 6 - 8 months for warentee work. It has for a few of my friends.

Buy a Smith. Spend the extra money but you can't go wrong. If you don't need 8 shots the 686 is a perfect gun. You can also get it in a 7 shot version. It can be converted to full moon clips which load real fast.

Now that ICORE has a new class called RETRO, the 686 with Safariland Comp IIIs is the way to go. It's not an equipment race. Just the older style equipment that's worked for years. Lots of guys are going that way now.

[anachronism]

Odd that this would come up. I have an old 4 inch square butt 686. I just ordered parts for a refit, I'm replacing the hand and doing an action job on it. It's a 30 year old virgin, in excellent condition. The front sight is part of the barrel. so updating the front will be interesting. I may just dovetail the face & pour myself a larger, brighter insert. Sorry for the thread drift, to compensate, I do have a hot 38 Spl load that usually get me 1000 fps with a Lyman 358156. It's an overload, but it shoots really well, and an "L" frame shouldn't have any issues with it. I'll be testing that load first to make sure it's suitable for my needs.

[ItZaLLgooD]

Stay away from the Taurus 608. I've seen too many not last long.

That's not good news. What do you consider long? I was thinking around 10,000 rounds would be acceptable for the price tag.

[AzShooter]

I've be surprised if you got 5000 before it needed work. Probably less from what I've seen.

10000 rounds isn't much. I shoot at least that muchc from each of my guns every year. If you get into competition you will too.

[ItZaLLgooD]

not cool!