Bad day using Lee products...

[johnny356ER]

Just a rant to get off my chest the bad day I'm having....

First off I ordered a Lee 429-240-2R mold from Midway that wouldn't line up correctly without squeezing the mold handles quite tightly.(enough to have to bend the handles together a little.) I should've sent the mold right back to Midway as my gut instinct told me, but I figured I could make do with a little extra pressure while casting...I'm a big guy and figured no big deal...the mold would line up correctly.
Went through all the proper cleaning and lubricating steps, smoked the mold and out to the garage I went.
I then fired up my Lee ProIV furnace and when the lead was up to temp, the bottom pour spout took an extremely long time to clear so the lead would flow.
The lead eventually got hot enough to clear the bottom spout and I started casting......or rather I tried to start casting. At least 50 casts into it I still wasn't getting proper fill out, and the mold was getting worse trying to close properly.
I let it cool off, brought it back into the house and re cleaned it, sparingly lubed it; as not to get lube into the cavities, and re-smoked it.
Meanwhile I took out an RCBS mold for the 44 and cast perfect boolits by the 3rd or 4th cast.
Back to the Lee mold and 50 more casts and no luck:sad:

I know Midway wont let me return the mold as it has been used, so my only chance left is the Lee guarantee.
I use a lot of Lee products including just about every Ranchdog mold made, but in the case of Ranchdog; Michael carefully goes over all the molds made by Lee for proper sizing, and quality, before he will sell them to his customers.

And as far as the furnace goes; I seem to be having temp control issues with that.....the temp is not maintaining, and that is why the spigot was clogging up.

I love Lee dies, but I really believe that when it comes to casting with Lee products "You gets what ya pays for!" Their quality control is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Hopefully Lee will make good on the bad mold, and I'll be buying a new furnace shortly...any suggestions BESIDES Lee?

Sorry about the rant and thanks,
johnny

[docone31]

Lee really makes good on things. Fast turn around.
As a side note, did you preheat the mold? I am not saying that will help the alignment, but the fillout.
I do not smoke my molds. I let them sit in mineral spirits at least over night, then I cast. I do this once. From that point, I rarely have issues. Some of my molds have had the pins work out, but I just push them back in and peen the outside edge in. The most I have had to do with a Lee mold has been to cast thru a nut on the sprue and with lapping compound spin the casting. From that point, the castings drop right out.
It also sounds like you have some zinc in the spout of your pot. It only takes a little. I put some mystery metal in mine and it took some flushing to get rid of it. Try taking a paper clip and pushing up into the spout, then turning the rod while shut. Hopefully that will take care of it. I leave mine at 9 while I cast. Everything is quite liquid while I cast. Last castings, I did get spots of material in the casting. I was flushing the last of the "mystery metal".
I have found, you gotta stir!
Good luck with Lee, they have been real good with my issues.

[excess650]

You may need to replace the thermostat assembly in the furnace. I've used both Lee 10# and 20#, and since I no longer bottom pour, will only use the larger 20# pots...have a Lyman too, and both are plugged so as to be useable via ladle only.

In the case of my Lee 20#, I wish that it would stay hotter, but it may be a limitation of the heating element. Generally, I get away with casting at 720* anyway, so it works fine if I'm careful. Regardless, I would have no reason to not buy another Lee 20# furnace.

As for their moulds, I deal with some of the single and double cavity moulds just because they were cheap, but prefer think their 6 cavity superior to the smaller ones. All of my aluminum moulds from other makers(NEI, LBT, NOE, and Mountain Moulds) have largish blocks and work well.

[doghawg]

Midway WILL take the mold back if it was shipped less than 90 days ago.......read the back of your invoice.

[navydoc]

Ditto send it back!

[thenaaks]

+1 on midway customer svc. i ordered a mag for my taurus pt92...they sent one for a beretta that wouldn't fit. i called them and they told me they'd send a replacement right out...i asked her about the beretta mag...she said keep it. the new one showed up a couple days later...i sold the beretta mag on gunbroker for 25 bucks!

[selmerfan]

If Midway won't take it back, Lee will. I have a GB 6 cav mold that is a Lyman 358627 copy. I managed to get the sprue plate bolt locked up and ended up twisting it off. I tried getting it out with an easy-out and buggered it all to hell. I was distraught as I had gotten a good deal on the mold and LOVE the bullets that come out of it in my .357 Max. I put it in the original box with a note to Lee about what stupid thing I had done, as if it wasn't obvious, and asked them to fix it if possible and replace if they still had the cherry. I received it back 10 days after I shipped it, retapped with a new sprue plate and bolt, working perfectly - zero charge for their services. If that's the norm with Lee customer service then I highly recommend it!

[Bill*]

+another for Midway. Got a new Lee 2 cav. mold that, when closed, showed light through the middle (only) of it as wide as a business card is thick. Sent it back with explanation (no phone call) and had a new one in my mailbox within 8-10 days.

[WallyM3]

I'm casting all sorts of alloy in my Lee 10# bottom pour at 630°. Much lower, and I can get freeze-up.

I believe the alloy doesn't have any "nasties" in it, but, of course, I don't really know.

I think it's advisable to cast with a thermometer. Any engineer, process manager, or scientist would probably agree.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/Wally_100/DSC_7702.jpg

Casters experienced with their equipment can cast by "feel". Mere mortals need to monitor variables.

[Colorado4wheel]

I know Midway wont let me return the mold as it has been used, so my only chance left is the Lee guarantee.

Not true, they will take it back. I have been trying to find a 6 banger that isn't like you describe but no luck. This last one is going back as well.

[jonblack]

Wally

You casting set up looks really nice. I like the stand you have used for the thermometer.

Good work!
jonblack

[deltaenterprizes]

That bench is too clean!

[WallyM3]

Clean no more. That's a old pic. (chuckle)

The stand is a hideously expensive Starrett No. 257D Surface Gage that had been in its original box for years, unused. Finally, it has a purpose in life.

[Paladin 56]

Wally,

What is the gizmo in the lower left corner under the bench? It resembles a Juenke ICC.

[WallyM3]

That's an electric kiln. When last used, I could get 2,200° from it. Good enough for the heat treating I do.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/Wally_100/DSC_7776-1.jpg

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb92/Wally_100/DSC_7773-1.jpg

[DLCTEX]

I keep a butane lighter near my casting pot and one of it's uses is to heat the spout on my Lee BP when the nasties clog it. Of course the easiest way to unclog it is to turn up the heat and cast some lightly frosted boolits. I can't believe that any brand of pot will not clog with contaminated lead and low temps as the operating principle is the same.

[Echo]

J356er, I think you aren't casting hot enough. Preheat the mold, either with a hot plate, or on the stove top in SWMBO's domain, or setting on top of furnace as it warms up. Turn the heat up.

There is probably a small burr that tries to keep the mold partially open. Run your finger along the contacting surfaces and see what you find. And look at the stickies on Leementing molds. I'll bet you will be able to let the mold know who is boss - Well, the mold KNOWS who's boss, so you need to cajole it into cooperating. With your mechanical capability, and the Leementing sticky, I have faith you can do it. And use BullPlate on the contacting surfaces.

[johnny356ER]

I think that there may be a burr in the channel under one of the alignment pins....Seems to me that one of the alignment pins is sitting up too high....I did find a couple of small burrs in the outer most alignment channels that I took care of with a fine mill-bastard file and now it takes less pressure to close, but still hard to get perfectly closed without seeing any light between the cavities. Im going to give it one more good scrubbing just to make sure I didnt get any lube where it shouldn't be...its possible, but not likely.

I always pre-heat my molds on top of the furnace while melting the lead that is in the pot...I like to leave the pot full when shutting down as to prevent rust in the pot.
Im hoping that the temp regulator isnt going bad.
Next casting session I will drain the pot into my ingot molds and start with fresh ingots; but I don't think I got any "nasties " in the mix....I've been using pure plumbers lead mixed with a little linotype and tin to cast at about a pretty consistent 14 bhn, and this mix has been dropping boolits out of other Lee molds with no problems. Maybe I got a little rust in the spout?
I'll be paper clipping the spout too during the next session.

As a side note ..... I really hate bad mouthing Lee as I've been a big fan of their products for quite a while and will continue to in the future. Lee is the only manufacturer of dies that I have NEVER had a single problem with. I just hate getting a product that I consider poor in quality control when I've come to expect better from them.....after all their name is Lee PRECISION. right?

Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it,
johnny

[Landric]

Another +1 for Midway taking back the mold, used or not. I made the mistake of buying a Pro1000 to load .45 ACP. I simply couldn't get it to work, so I returned it, used. Full refund. I ended up buying a used Dillon Square Deal B for .45 ACP, which is the only cartridge I load on a progressive.

That said, I have and use a lot of Lee products. My most used press is a Classic Turret, the next most used is a Classic Cast (actually, the Dillon SDB is my only non-Lee press). What Lee really needs is a progressive based on the Classic Turret. Now that, I would want to try.

My only complaint about Lee dies is the powder through expander. Its great for use with a Pro Auto Disk powder measure, but I find it really annoying for use during single stage loading. Lee dies are usually the best deal going, but once I factor in the cost of buying an expander from some other company, I might as well just buy RCBS or Hornady dies instead. I use Lee dies pretty much exclusively on my Classic Turret, but for the cartridges I single stage, I use other brands.

I've strayed from the point, which was, return to mold to Midway, they will make good.

[mroliver77]

When I pay 16.43 for a Lee two cav mold I kinda expect to have to fiddle and diddle(Leement) with it some. The only one I have ever had to send back was one of their old HP that the pin would not center. A friend loaned me the mold to see if I could do any good with it. Lee replaced it with no problem even though it was pretty old.
I bought some soft brass brushes for various jobs and have found that a brushing with these paying close attention to corners and vents and most Lee molds fall right in line. I have been using these to prep all stubborn molds and am very satisfied.
I am very stubborn and will invest the time into making something work. Fiddling is therapy for me.
Jay

[Heavy lead]

I absolutely loath the design for the Lee 2 cavity. If the handles are loose (the recent ones are very sloppy) you have to squirrel around setting them on something flat to close them. With that said I've got two I won't part with, a C430-310 and a C452-300 that are great, they cast to the right size without being so oversized the lube and crimp grooves are gone, I attempeted to replace them both with 6 cavity moulds, which were both good quality that cast beautiful but were too big, when I sized the crimp grooves were gone.
So I fight with them as they are good shooter.
The one good thing about the Lee 2 holers though is they are so small you can stick the corner in a melt for 30-60 seconds are start pouring right away as they heat up so quick, I never heat up the pot just to cast with these, just run them 50 at a time or so when I'm doing a run of another boolit.

[johnny356ER]

Well I managed to get 100 keepers out of last nights casting session before the wifey-poo called me in for dinner....I ran the temp up till the boolits were frosting, and then backed it down till the frosting dissappeared; its a shame the wife called me in cause I had just got into a good rhythm of casting and then "steaming" off a few BTU's with the mold.
It still needs a little bit of extra pressure to get the mold to close properly and stay that way....I have to align the halves visually with a little rap with a hickory handle, and then close the sprue plate, but that seems to do the job along with deburring the mold.
As far as the furnace goes... I drained/ladled out all lead possible and when completely empty let it cool off and used a wire brush on a dremel to get any rust off of the pot...(I previously used a fluxing compound that was just "instant rust" for my pot) (I'm now using good old fashioned FREE sawdust.)
I also paper clipped the spout, and now seem to have no problems.

I appreciate everyones input...The day I stop learning, I'll be dead.

Thanks,
johnny

[kbstenberg]

Johnny if i could give you a suggestion! Use some type of magnifying glass an look closely at the recesses that the alignment pins fit in. If there is a scuff mark on one of them that pin has to be recessed just a tad.
Kevin

[johnny356ER]

That makes sense....need something stronger than my reading glasses!!

[DCP]

What a great idea for my old machinists tools.
I got 4 or 5 different types. 1 or more has to fit my Lyman thermometer


Clean no more. That's a old pic. (chuckle)

The stand is a hideously expensive Starrett No. 257D Surface Gage that had been in its original box for years, unused. Finally, it has a purpose in life.

[qajaq59]

Actually Midway may not take it back. I had a problem with a Lyman mold that I got thru Midway and they wouldn't take it back. They said to send it to the factory.

But call them anyway and see. And if they wont, please let us know.

[MaxJon]

I absolutely loath the design for the Lee 2 cavity. If the handles are loose (the recent ones are very sloppy) you have to squirrel around setting them on something flat to close them. With that said I've got two I won't part with, a C430-310 and a C452-300 that are great, they cast to the right size without being so oversized the lube and crimp grooves are gone, I attempeted to replace them both with 6 cavity moulds, which were both good quality that cast beautiful but were too big, when I sized the crimp grooves were gone.
So I fight with them as they are good shooter.
The one good thing about the Lee 2 holers though is they are so small you can stick the corner in a melt for 30-60 seconds are start pouring right away as they heat up so quick, I never heat up the pot just to cast with these, just run them 50 at a time or so when I'm doing a run of another boolit.

Heavy Lead,
I had been using a Lee C309-180 for my 308 Mauser, no matter what i tried it would never drop em on the high side of .309" I got an RCBS .309 180gr. FP (#82014) and it drops .310 plus! Now i have the option to size back to .309 or shoot em as cast .310! I did however put this mould in Lee handles which i had to linish about 10 thou. off the claws of the 6 holer handles so they would fit the RCBS. No Lee moulds for me!!
BB03

[phaessler]

I have to add that even my older Ideals , and Lyman 4 holers throw fits, some are undersized, and somedays my Lee's run trouble free, the lLee pot is another story, the dripmaster. But I have had to clean the Lee's sometimes three times before they cast well.

Only thing I would caution in the pic is , be sure you have good ventilation, cant be overstressed. Otherwise your casting department is a thing of beauty.

Pete

[Gadzooks Mike]

I know Midway wont let me return the mold as it has been used, so my only chance left is the Lee guarantee.


I love Lee dies, but I really believe that when it comes to casting with Lee products "You gets what ya pays for!"

So, to get this all straight, you haven't talked to Midway and you haven't talked to Lee - is this like a preliminary gripe to sort of soften them up or something? Let us know how that works out.

[Hang Fire]

I just got a couple of Lee two bangers in from Midway, one was great, the other on sale for 15 bucks, (?????) not so much, it had alignment problems also. The bottom would close first, but not the top without a death grip on the handles. I thought just a LITTLE bending was in order, but the LITTLE turned into too MUCH.

I fiddled with it for quite a while using the SWAG method and by gosh and pure luck, it came out perfect. The little 90 grain .314" TL boolits almost fly out of it.

[leadman]

If you decide to replace your Lee pot I highly recommend the RCBS. I had a Lee #10 and #20, then bought a used RCBS with a bunch of stuff. What a difference!
Bullet weight is more consistent I think because the pot temp is very consistent. No problems with a drippy spout either.