Win 94 30-30 to .375 Win Conversion

[Boomer Mikey]

Hello Everyone,

This is about a conversion I did on a Winchester Model 94 30-30. If you like to get the utmost velocity and power from your cartridges this conversion isn't for you!

The 30-30 is rated for 38,000 cup, the .375 Winchester is rated for 52,000 cup, and 38-55 loads are rated at 30,000 psi or less. 38-55 load data used in .375 brass is safe for loads used in a conversion such as this.

.375 Winchester Load data is not safe in this conversion!

I bid on 3 30-30's one day expecting to win one of the auctions and ended up with all 3 Winchesters. This one cost $150.00 with a badly pitted barrel. I always wanted a 375 Winchester and when I discovered the 38-55, 375 and 30-30 all used the same set of feeding parts I purchased a new 375 Winchester Big Bore barrel for $60.00. I turned the new barrel down to the dimensions of the original 30-30 barrel and chased the threads of the original barrel then swapped and cut threads on the 375 barrel to match. Headspace and the ejector slot matched up perfectly. I load the 375 Winchester Brass to 38-55 cast bullet levels to stay on the safe side. The conversion feeds and cycles perfectly, no additional parts were required for the conversion and 1-1.5" average groups are the norm. This conversion took about 5 hours to complete and $60.00 in parts plus $12.00 shipping.

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/9030/Winchester_94_30-30_conversion_to_375_Winchester_-1.JPG

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/9030/Winchester_94_30-30_conversion_to_375_Winchester_-9.JPG

http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/data/9030/Winchester_94_30-30_conversion_to_375_Winchester_-3.JPG

I can understand a gunsmiths caution in doing a 30-30 to 375 conversion like mine as it could be a disasterous situation if you shot factory 375 Winchester ammo with this 30-30 receiver. After reading Ken Water's write-up in Pet Loads about using 375 loads in his 38-55 and his evaluation of the strength of the standard receiver compared to the big bore receiver did I consider this conversion as long as loads were kept sensible. I have put at least 400 rounds thru my 375 conversion without any measurable change in headspace and the gun's action is as tight now as the day it was made.


Boomer

[Four Fingers of Death]

That is a sweet looking rifle, I have a 375 Big Bore, but I am happy with cast, I have about 30-35 factory loads which came with rifle and when they are gone, it will be lead only. Well done, it would be doubly satisfying because you did the work yourself no doubt. Mick.

[StarMetal]

Ken Waters has a reputation and business to protect so he's not going to say or write anything that will jeapardize that.

It is true the locking system on the Model 92 is stronger than the Model 94. The Model 94 was designed with a specific basic cartridge case in mind. A cartridge case with a base diameter of about .419" and a rim diameter of .506".
With a cartridge like the .454 and its base diameter of .4475" and a rim of .512" you have a lot area to work back against the beech bolt and single (angled) locking lug. The Model 94 bolt is considerably longer than the bolt of the Model 92 and has greater opportunity to flex.
We need to keep in mind when we discuss the "strength" of the Model 94 action that when reamed for the .30-30 Ackley Improved case the action easily handles loads generating pressures in excess of 50,000 CUP without difficulty.
Myron Rockett posted on the lever guns forum that his top eject Model 94 reamed for the wildcat predecessor of the .307 - his .444/.308 - was still going strong after nearly 30 years of use with high pressure loadings of this cartridge. The Model 94 is plenty strong enough for the cartridge cases it was intended to handle, and for a few it wasnt intended to handle. The action was not intended for the large diameter case with the rapid recoil impulse of the .454 and I believe it has been shown in tests the Model 94 locking system will fail after less than five rounds have been fired.

On top of that the factory loads for a 30-30 can reach 42,000 psi. I believe your pressure for the 38-55 is high.

What a joke firing a 375 Win in a converted 30-30 will result in a disaster. I don't think so.

The Big Bore was more of a sales gimmic to increase the sales of the rifle, the fancy beefed up receiver, the XTR treatment....all BS. If anything when Winchester changed over to angle eject and cut about 1/4 inch out of the right side wall of the receiver they weakened the action far more then we will ever know, but yet it has no problems with those 42,000 psi 30-30 loads.

Don't get me wrong, load low and playing it safe is a good avenue, for any gun.

That's a nice conversion you have there.

Joe

[9.3X62AL]

I've been hemming and hawing about doing a 38-55 conversion on a Marlin 336 action I have laying around. 255 grains will leave a lasting impression at 1600-1700 FPS on any animated recipient, so I share the view that maxed out pressures aren't needed with either of the calibers. I'm wondering if 38-55 brass might not be easier to find in coming years than 375 brass.

[Boomer Mikey]

Ken Waters stated that a 375 Winchester cartridge fired in a Winchester Model 1894 shouldn't result in a blown-up 38-55 rifle, assuming it is in good sound condition and properly headspaced.

38-55 loads are typically rated at less than 30,000 psi. 30-30 pressures are rated at 38,000 cup and 375 Winchester pressures are rated at 52,000 cup. (Speer Reloading Manual No. 13)

Yes, I trust my work and the strength of this 1894 Winchester top eject to handle 375 Winchester factory ammunition or loads approaching that level. I choose to use loads that are less punishing on me and the rifle.

No, I can't recommend someone trust 375 Winchester loads in another conversion.

Yes I can recommend 38-55 load data in any 30-30 to 375 conversion, assuming it is in good sound condition and properly headspaced.

We agree; any conversion needs to be treated with respect and work up loads slowly, watching for danger signs.

This is one of my favorite lever guns; my enthusiasm is for the ability to convert an otherwise mediocre 30-30 into a great cast bullet rifle that’s fun to shoot without anyone getting hurt. To this end this is an inexpensive, easy conversion that works.


Boomer

[Boomer Mikey]

I've been hemming and hawing about doing a 38-55 conversion on a Marlin 336 action I have laying around. 255 grains will leave a lasting impression at 1600-1700 FPS on any animated recipient, so I share the view that maxed out pressures aren't needed with either of the calibers. I'm wondering if 38-55 brass might not be easier to find in coming years than 375 brass.

I own an H&R 38-55 Target Rifle and a Marlin 336 CB in 38-55. Both are sweet shooting rifles. I use the same loads in all 3 rifles for target accuracy - 23 to 27 grains of 4198, WW brass, WLR primer, and Bear Creek .377 dia. 255 grain bullet with a heavy crimp. The Winchester 1894's lighter weight and shorter barrel make it "the" rifle to carry. With 7 rounds in the magazine it will dispatch any critter that needs a mood adjustment.

If you don't own a 38-55 or 375 Winchester you’re missing some of the easiest to load for, inherently accurate rifles around.

4895 or 3031 pushing a 255 grain bullet 1600 - 1900 fps is bad medicine on the receiving end. (1600 in 1894's & 336's; 1900 in strong single shots)

I agree - the popularity of CAS will make 38-55 brass available long after 375 brass is history. I have enough of both to last me the rest of my days.

These calibers are very high on my fun meter. These are the 357 UltraMags!

Boomer

[Boomer Mikey]

I'm in trouble again!

I have brass and dies for 357 supermag. I also have 3, 1892 357magum lever guns.

I wonder if I can get close to 356 Winchester performance with the 200 and 250 grain bullets from the RCBS 35 caliber moulds I have?

Is there a 357 supermag rifle conversion ahead? :shock:

Maybe!

Boomer

[Junior1942]

What happens to the fellow who buys that 375/Model 94 from your heirs? He won't know he's supposed to shoot light loads only through it. You ain't gonna live forever. . . .

[45 2.1]

I wouldn't worry about brass for any of them, 30-30 brass blown out works fine for any reduced load along with the 375 GB mold, you will be shooting for a long time.

[Boomer Mikey]

What happens to the fellow who buys that 375/Model 94 from your heirs? He won't know he's supposed to shoot light loads only through it. You ain't gonna live forever. . . .

The old standard rule still applies today.

Anyone who purchases a used firearm should have it checked by a competent gunsmith.

In this case the 375 is already spoken for; our daughter loves this rifle. She knows what it is and how to load for it as well. It belongs to her; I'm just borrowing it for a while.

Boomer

[omgb]

It sounds like you've got the right idea Boomer. As to the strength of such a conversion.... The extra metal on the BB receivers is not really the issue as I see it. Rather, it's the alloys and the heat treating Winchester did on the BB XTRs. They (Win) say they did a different process on these guns to help them hold up to the higher operating pressures of the .307, .356, and .375 rounds. I tend to believe them. If I were converting a 30-30, I would ream and chamber for the 38-55. That way I could still load up for heat on occasion, but I would also be safe if at some later date, an unknowing individual fed the gun a steady diet of factory rounds.

I hate it when I get my hands on something that a guy years before me has "customized" and I can't figure out what he did and or what its limitations are. It always leaves me wondering if I'm just on the brink of discovery or disaster....... So, I'd go 38-55 and make it easy on the next guys a hunderd years from now.

[StarMetal]

Smith & Wesson said the same thing about Model 14 38 specials and Modek 19 357magnums, that the cylinders were heat treated differently. I don't buy it. I know and I bet alot of you out there know fellows that reamed out Model 14 cylinders for 357 mags with no problems.

This is where we need clarkm to run the blow up test.

Boomer you're still off on your pressure ratings for 30-30 and 375. You're low on the 30-30 and high on the 375. The 30-30 definately runs in the low 40,000's.

So if old Starmetal is in the business of converting nice Model 94's into beatiful good shooting 375 Winchester for a substantial price, what is he going to tell you if you get the hair brain idea of barreling one of your own? He'll say, no I have those receivers special heat treated and specifically look for a special year where the alloy was proper. He don't want you cutting into his profits.

Let's talk about another rifle. In this case an old *** M44 Russian Mosin Nagant. Jumptrap tried to blow this rifle up on purpose. He had a very hard time wrecking it and when he did it didn't ruin it much. What he found out was that with those "OH MY GOD DON'T EVER LOAD THAT" loads, were they were pretty darn safe in that rifle. It took a case of Bullseye to wreck that gun.

Until some gunsmith, gun company, whoever, actually runs an extensive test on how much a Model 94 Winchester and Marlin 336 will take to blow it up I'm not buying any of the posters, Ken Waters, or anyone elses STORIES.

Winchester sure as hell doesn't engineer the strength of it's Model 94 to very limit of the pressures Boomer said the 30-30 is rated for. In other words a few pounds over that and BOOM, it blows up. This brings up the strength of the old 93 and 95 Mausers actions. Ask Larry Gibson about that. We've been told "No don't ever build one into a modern cartridge, they'll blow up".

Joe

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer you're still off on your pressure ratings for 30-30 and 375. You're low on the 30-30 and high on the 375. The 30-30 definately runs in the low 40,000's.
Joe

Hi Joe,

If the figures don't suit you, complain to the folks that wrote the Speer Reloading Manual No.13, not me.

You have every right to do anything to your guns you want to.

I'll remain conservative,

Boomer

[StarMetal]

Boomer,

I'm not complaining to you. You do need to look at more then just ONE reloading manual.

Joe

[Boomer Mikey]

I hate it when I get my hands on something that a guy years before me has "customized" and I can't figure out what he did and or what its limitations are. It always leaves me wondering if I'm just on the brink of discovery or disaster....... So, I'd go 38-55 and make it easy on the next guys a hunderd years from now.

Your right of course; I've considered doing exactly what you suggest more than once. All the other rifles I've built (4) are marked appropriately.


Boomer

[StarMetal]

Boomer,

Don't get me wrong, I like what you've done. That is if I build one, I wouldn't be shooting factory or handloaded jacketed 375's in it anyways, cast is so much more fun and better. The 375 doesn't need jacketed to be a good hunting round either.

Enjoy your rifle.

Joe

[Boomer Mikey]

Boomer,

Don't get me wrong, I like what you've done. That is if I build one, I wouldn't be shooting factory or handloaded jacketed 375's in it anyways, cast is so much more fun and better. The 375 doesn't need jacketed to be a good hunting round either.

Enjoy your rifle.

Joe


Thank you Joe, I agree completely!

Boomer

[Four Fingers of Death]

The 38/55 ammo seems to be available in virtually every decent sized gunshop here. The brass is a bit harder to get, but a phone call and a credit card will get you some overnight.

The 375, however is a different story. I got 60 or 80 factory rounds with my rifle and couldn't find any anywhere. I was about to fireform some 30/30 brass when my cell phone (mobile phone in Aust) rang and a store in the next state told me that the 200x 375 Win brass that they had on backorder (I had forgotten) for me had arrived. The price hurt, but I now have over 250x375Win cases and the odd box of 38/55.

If I was doing a conversion I would chamber and mark it as a 38/55. That way, if I fall off the perch or want to sell the critter, no unsuspecting soul is going to blow his fool head off.

Mick.

[DEVERS454]

The 38-55 is a fantastic cartridge with LOTS of potential.

would I shoot .375Win from my converted 30-30? Nope... I shoot almost 100% 38-55 with black powder.

Its more fun that way...