My 1st 45/70

[Ben]

I bought my 1st 45/70 a few days ago. A Knight KP1.

Here is a Shooting Times Review on the rifle :

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/st_kp1_200712/

I did a lot of reading about it prior to investing any money in it. Seems that the rifle has a clean bill of health on the internet with the many reviews that I was able to read. I also own several Ruger # 1 rifles and know that the fore end can cause problems. The fore end on this rifle is totally isolated from the receiver of the rifle. I really liked that feature. The rifle also has a clean crisp trigger. The barrel has a 1 - 18 twist.

I have the Gould HP 45/70 mold, and I've ordered the 2 Lee 405's for the rifle ( the plain base and the hollow base 405's ) . I have a .459 H & I die along with a nice set of reloading dies. I have on hand................ Unique, SR 4759, IMR - 4198, 2400, AA - 5744, IMR - 3031, IMR - 4895 and many more powders if I need to look more........

This should be fun.......I

Any advice you'd like to offer before I start loading for the rifle ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%20-%2070/PICT0017.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%20-%2070/PICT0018.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%20-%2070/78654.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%20-%2070/PICT0010.jpg

I put my Burris 1.5 X 6 Variable on the rifle. Just about ideal in my opinion :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%20-%2070/PICT0005.jpg


I finally got to the range with the rifle . Here is a load that shot fairly well.
I'll be shooting more in the next few days in an attempt to find " THE LOAD "
that the rifle really likes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/DSCI0002-1.jpg

[dk17hmr]

.....
Any advice you'd like to offer before I start loading for the rifle ?
......

Fill the butt stock with lead and go to town.

H322 worked the best for me in my 45-70 and 450 Marlin.

I will be waiting for a range report, knowing full well you will have that think shooting one hole groups in no time.

[Ben]

I have some H - 322........I'll have to add that one to my list of " early favorites".

Ben

[Shooter6br]

I have a Leupold 2x7 heavy Duplex on my Ruger #1. I use Ranchdog 350 g with 4759. I also use H322 43 g It is just under 1500 fps (No GC) I also like Varget 4064, Universal. 45-70 very flexable. No GC or filler....

[Ben]

Thanks for your input, this should give me a good start.

Thanks,
Ben

[jh45gun]

With the Lee Hollow Base 405 grain bullet I have been loading 24 grains of 2400 no filler needed and it groups very well for me out of my Marlin Model 1895 Guide Gun.

[Ben]

jh45gun :

I continue to read about your 24 grs. of 2400 load in several different sources. All speak well of that load. I'll have to try that one.

Do you have a " guess " on the muzzle velocity ?

Thanks,
Ben

[9.3X62AL]

Ben--

Any info on the relative strength of the KP-1 in 45-70? The swap barrels mentioned in the article include 30-06 chamberings, so I suspect there is at least some room for load creativity.

That said, even in my Mondo Strong Ruger #1, I have come to really like 1873-level loadings in the 45-70. 400 grains moving 1300 FPS will not cause positive effects to game animal recipients, and don't push back very hard on the sender. Ross Seyfried wrote some years back about using IMR-4198 to duplicate blackpowder load traits in old BP rounds in this fashion--

Take the nominal black powder charge weight--in this case, 70 grains--and multiply it by 0.4 (70 x 0.4 = 28). Use that product number (28) in grains of IMR-4198 as your load with standard bullet weights/cast bullets. In my #1, 28.0 grains of IMR-4198 gives the Lee 405 grain boolit 1300 FPS and all-day recoil in the bargain.

I should add herein that I have used Mr. Seyfried's "4198 Formula" in a number of other blackpowder rounds.......25-20, 32-20, and 44-40. Using "standard" boolit weights, the formula yields 1200-1300 FPS in rifles, decent to good accuracy, and gentle recoil. I have had zero leading with plain-based boolits in all these applications.

[jh45gun]

jh45gun :

I continue to read about your 24 grs. of 2400 load in several different sources. All speak well of that load. I'll have to try that one.

Do you have a " guess " on the muzzle velocity ?

Thanks,
Ben

No but I would suspect it is moderate meaning in the 1475 fps area plenty powerful enough to kill anything walking with that big bullet. The Lyman Reloading book has a 400 grain bullet listed that is for the Marlin 1895 guns and they say that 24.6 grains which is a max load is 1497 fps. My 405 grain bullets made out of straight WW weigh 392 grains lubed so I suspect that it is in the 1475 fps area. It still hits down range with authority yet does not smack ya in the recoil dept bad. Its a good load I like it.

[Ben]

Thanks fellows for all this good info.

Al :

The KP1 was barreled in 300 Win. Mag by Knight as one of their standard barrel offerings. .....So, I'd think that Level 1 and 2 loads should be a breeze in this rifle. I do believe I'll stand completely clear of Level 3 ( Ruger # 1 ) loads. If I need anything like that I'll just find a 600 Nitro Express, I won't be shooting anything close to Level 3's in my rifle .

More likely than not.....I'll be shooting about 90% of my loads in the sub 25 K zone.
Easy on the rifle and easy on my shoulder.

Thanks for you help,

Ben

[NickSS]

That's a nice looking rifle you have and the first one of those I have seen a picture of (I do not read gun magazines too much as I find them to be repetitive). I have been chucking lead out of a 45-70 since about 1965 and currently own 13 rifles in that caliber. A good all around target/ deer/elk load is a 400gr bullet pushed by 42 gr of 3031. This load has proved to be very accurate in any rifle I tried it in. I do not shoot this load in my original Ballard or Sharps 1874 rifles as it is on the upper end of being safe for them (and not safe in the Ballard at all. A load thet I like to plink with and also have used for deer hunting is a RCBS 45-325-FP over 27 gr of AA 5744. Most of my 45-70s are fired with the old stuff (black powder) and I have no pressure concerns with it.

[Ben]

NickSS :

Thanks to you and everyone else who has offered their thoughts, suggestions, and load data on the 45/70. All of this will make my 1st attempts at loading the 45/70 more productive .

Ben

[94Doug]

I've loaded 45-70's for a Springfield the most, so probably a different set of goals. (BP) I do have a 458 Lott, so I have a few moulds including a HP coversion by Buckshot. Let me know if you ever want some boolits to "try before you buy"

Doug

[swamp]

Ben,

I have two moulds that are a bit different. For fun plinker loads I have a 150 gr. collar button. It would probalbly work as a small game load. The other is a 400gr spitzer. Good long range plinker.

swamp

[excess650]

The logo on the side of the barrel leads me to think its a Green Mountain barrel. A 1-18" twist is quicker than the 1-20" that Marlin and Ruger use, so it may like heavy bullets better than light ones. Trapdoor Springfields were 1-22", IIRC.

Unless you're a glutton for punishment, avoid the compressed loads of H322 and 3031 with 405gr bullets.:holysheep

[jh45gun]

Unless they have changed Knight does or did use Green Mountain Barrels which are Excellent Barrels.

[Rico1950]

Ben,
Nice looking rifle.
Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook from the '70s:
Firearm used: Marlin 1895
Barrel: 22"
Twist: 1-22
Groove: .456????
This data designed for use in the following:
1886 Winchester
New 1895 Marlin
Ruger #1
Ruger #3
Ly 457193 405grs. #2 alloy
Unique 13.0 1110 fps MAX. 16.5 1260
2400 (Hercules?) 22.5 1240 MAX. 28.5 1510
IMR 4198 29.0 1160 MAX. 33.0 1370
IMR 3031 41.0 1455 MAX. 46.5 1640

[Ben]

I cast about 100 of the 405 Lee Hollow base bullets today. Time to load some up and head to the range.

And YES....it is a Green Mt. Barrel

Ben

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/45%2070%20Hollow%20base%20bullets/PICT0007.jpg

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Just a quick comment as per the first posts reference to RUGER #1 forend issues.

First, I have never had a #1 that wasn't a good shooter.

However, liking my hunting rifles to be floated I began floating my #1's and in doing so, because of the way I glasbed the forend, barrel pressure is a non-issue.

The forarm is bedded to the under barrel hanger and the lug containing the ejector pressure screw/spring. Then the forarm is floated as normal and as stated, barrel to forarm pressure is now a non-issue.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[frankenfab]

Ben,

That is a GREAT picture. Best of luck with and congratulations on your new rifle.