Thickest aluminum for Checkmaker dies?

[roysha]

What is the thickest aluminum you folks have successfully used in your Checkmaker die set?
I have the opportunity to pick up some .020 thick, cheap, but I think that may be a bit too thick.

[Freightman]

did some .027 it was fine.

[JeffinNZ]

I would have thought it could be a smidge more than 1/2 the difference between the forming die and mandrel.

[Ben]

I once read that a .30 cal. Hornady g/c was .016 " thick. Is there something to be gained by using .020" and .027 " thickness gas checks ?

Ben

[roysha]

Well, as much as hated to bother the man, I went ahead and pestered Pat about this. His response was that the .020 thickness could be problematic, especially if it was hard. He recommended Amerimax Aluminum flashing, aprox. .014 thick. I found it readily available. It is Amerimax #68108 which is .014"x8"x50'. Average price with shipping, around $35-40. This, according to my calculations, would make a fair number of checks:grin:

The price was very right on the .020 aluminum and that was the only reason I asked. As long as the GC fits the bullet well enough to stay on, I think the thickness is of minor consequence since I have read people using beverage can aluminum with acceptable results.

[PatMarlin]

Hey- you guys can bother me anytime. That's what PM and email is for.

I can't bite, cause I can't reach you through the net ..:mrgreen:

You really don't know how well it will work until you try it. That pretty much goes for any material that has not been tested by shooters here. So try before you buy a large amount.

The dies will cut it without a doubt, as long as it's not bone hard. So it may be a good buy, or pain in the rear to work with, just don't know until you see what you have.

[PatMarlin]

Another notable piece of information for newcombers:

Three (3)- 8"x11" sheets of metal will make approximately 1,144 gas checks in 30 caliber with my Checkmaker™ dies.

[StarMetal]

Well, as much as hated to bother the man, I went ahead and pestered Pat about this. His response was that the .020 thickness could be problematic, especially if it was hard. He recommended Amerimax Aluminum flashing, aprox. .014 thick. I found it readily available. It is Amerimax #68108 which is .014"x8"x50'. Average price with shipping, around $35-40. This, according to my calculations, would make a fair number of checks:grin:

The price was very right on the .020 aluminum and that was the only reason I asked. As long as the GC fits the bullet well enough to stay on, I think the thickness is of minor consequence since I have read people using beverage can aluminum with acceptable results.


As long as the material isn't too thick for the dies, which it doesn't sound it is, I would anneal it and make it easier on the die...that is if it isn't already soft.

[highscore]

I would have thought it could be a smidge more than 1/2 the difference between the forming die and mandrel.


You have the right idea.... Material such as aluminum can be thinned down by the drawing operation within reason. If the difference between the punch and die is .036, the .020 material will stay approximately .020 in the bottom and the side walls would be .018. This assumes proper radius on both the punch and die. The more you thin down the material in the side wall, the more pressure it will take to form it. The more you thin it down, the more uneven the top edge of the check can become and the longer the check will become. Anyone have the actual numbers?

[Bloodman14]

Hey, Pat, here's an idea; can you have the mandrel/punch induction hardened? That way, it won't matter how hard the AL is, and the punch/mandrel will NEVER need sharpening!

[PatMarlin]

Morning Tim'

THe male cutter and female cutter are hardened. Are you having a problem with yours?

There have been no problems to date. Trying to cut material that is tempered real hard does not form good checks, and would not with any die. It shears and tears.

Of course you could stamp out checks with a heavy hydraulic commercial machine as I'm sure any material can be stamped.

Using hard tempered checks is not going to help your boolit base obturate and seal the bore as well.

[Bloodman14]

Pat, I think I'm using too thin material (catfood cans), mic at .0075. Doubling them in the female cup die tears one side of the check. How are you guys using .014 Amerimax AL? Some .010 stuff works pretty well.

[PatMarlin]

What happens when you use one layer of cat food can?

[Bloodman14]

One layer makes a good check with a 'bottlecap'; however, they don't crimp very well on any of my Lee boolits (120, 150, 160, or 200 grs., I can pull them right off). Any ideas?

[Ben]

Q. Any ideas ? ?

A. Yes, buy a roll of Ameri-Max .014 aluminum at an Ace Hardware store and your problems are over.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=86966

[Mugs]

I'll second that.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[PatMarlin]

Tim the reason is I sent out some dies this week with the male die .002 larger, which would be better for larger 30 cal shanks, but not for thin metals and smaller shanks. LEE is known sometimes for loose fitting shanks as well.

I took a gamble testing the edge of my specs, pushing the envelope and got back a ping!

You can use the .014 like they suggest and will take care of the problem, or I can send you another die.

For 30 cal the solution to cover all shanks and material choices is my standard male die, and an optional male die for fat shanks. I pretty much comfirmed this already and decided to offer the optional male die instead of the optional ejector pins which do not always work in every situation.

Now you would think what works for 30, would transfer to other caliber sizes. It doesn't. 35 cal acts totally different and is not near as finicky as 30 cal.

You can experiment with that one more Tim if you want. PM me and let me know what you would like.

[Mugs]

Gunnerd
If you would like to see how your die forms with some .014 alum. PM me your address and i'll mail you a sample.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Bloodman14]

Pat, I'm having Mugs send me some .014; let me see how that works, and I'll get back to you.
Thanks, Mugs! Go, Devils!

[Bloodman14]

Did some calling to the local Ace Hardware stores; they don't carry Amerimax! So, I guess I'll take my digital caliper down to Lowe's, and do some measuring.

[Mugs]

Tim
Look here: www.acehardwareoutlet.com search 68104 flashing.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Bloodman14]

Got it 'bookmarked'! Thanks, Mugs!

[Jim Sheldon]

Got it 'bookmarked'! Thanks, Mugs!

They are a little slow getting the orders out, but at least it's available. Ordered a roll on the 5th, they claim they shipped the 7th, but the FedEx tracking number said it was shipped the 8th and will be here the 15th by their slowest method.

Shipping was only a bit over $7 so can't complain too much.

Jim

[Ben]

I'd go to Ace Hardware Web site, order the Amerimax .014 " and have it shipped free to any Ace Hardware Store ?

[Jim Sheldon]

I'd go to Ace Hardware Web site, order the Amerimax .014 " and have it shipped free to any Ace Hardware Store ?

Check the Ace hardware website - it ain't listed anymore. At least not than I could find. None of the local stores have it available for order either and refused to try and order it or accept a shipment as it wasn't in their order catalogs or I would have done that.

Jim

[Bloodman14]

I tried that earlier, as well; no dice.

[Mugs]

I just came back from my local Ace who stocks Amerimax. I went to ask them if they would match the 14.99 price of the outlet. Looked on the shelf and guess what 14.99, so I had to buy 2 more rolls. They had been 19.99.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Jim Sheldon]

I just came back from my local Ace who stocks Amerimax. I went to ask them if they would match the 14.99 price of the outlet. Looked on the shelf and guess what 14.99, so I had to buy 2 more rolls. They had been 19.99.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

Gunnerd,

Should we thump him now or later? :veryconfu

[PatMarlin]

Worked more on 32/8mm cal most of the day. Made some decent gas checks but I still want to fine tune it in, hit that magic sweet spot. I want to get it right, and I'll have you up and running soon Jim.

Cool thing is the CNC is running the whole time. Don't even talk back but it does test my patience from time to time... :mrgreen:

[Bloodman14]

Sorry, Jim, but I can't thump a fellow Arizonan![smilie=s:

[PatMarlin]

Jan Brewer will thump him ...:mrgreen:

[Bloodman14]

:bigsmyl2:[smilie=l:

[Jim Sheldon]

Worked more on 32/8mm cal most of the day. Made some decent gas checks but I still want to fine tune it in, hit that magic sweet spot. I want to get it right, and I'll have you up and running soon Jim.

Cool thing is the CNC is running the whole time. Don't even talk back but it does test my patience from time to time... :mrgreen:

Looking forward to it. I have a bunch of those Lee C395-209 boolits cast waiting to try out the .014 Aluminum checks. From what I'm seeing from everyone else, they actually produce slightly better accuracy than the Hornady commercial ones.

I have a 98K Mauser that I got last year that turned out to be a real tack driver with the heavy cast boolits and Trail Boss powder. Not pushing 'em fast, but they still shoot better with gas checks than without. At almost $30/1000 for Hornady even with a dealer discount at Midway, Your Checkmaker and $15 worth of Amerimax aluminum flashing should keep me shooting for several years at least. That is if I don't run out of lead to cast boolits with -- :holysheep

Just remember though, regarding that CNC lathe -- "To err is human, to really screw things up takes one or more computers! (author unknown) :killingpc

Jim

[Mugs]

Geez guys I didn't do nuttin.
Mugs
Ihmsa 5940L

[PatMarlin]

You had that guilty look about you... :mrgreen:

[Ben]

This could be a source of Amerimax Aluminum for you guys, $17.20 a roll, .014 " thickness :

http://www.amazon.com/Amerimax-Home-68104-Aluminum-Flashing/dp/B0009SQFTS

[roysha]

Pat:

Glad to see you are working on the 32/8mm. Starting to get excited about the whole project and, generally speaking, I don't even like to GC. I've been shooting PBs in my handguns since the early 60s and only recently started getting serious about cast rifle projectiles.

I followed your advice and did get the .014 Amerimax flashing. Bought it from Deerso on Amazon. Got the 8"x50' for $23.00 and change plus shipping. Should be about 4-5 lifetimes supply at the rate I use GCs.:grin:

Are you in the position to have some die sets on hand or are you still playing catch up? I think I see a .30 caliber set in my future as soon as I see how well I get along with the 32/8mm set.

[PatMarlin]

Roy-

I think you will find making gaschecks is fun and a natural addition to the reloading process. It also takes less time and work than other steps in reloading.

I'm both still playing catch up and producing extra stock. Catch up will be completely done this week lord willing, and I will also have stock in 30 and 35 calibers. Stock soon in 32, and the 40's.

Still fine tuning CNC and the last tooling testing decicions. 1 darn boring bar issue has held me back a full week on 1 part. Also- I'm putting a nice Anilam DRO on my manual Hardinge for fast protoype caliber changes and testing.

I have 90% of production locked down rock solid, just have a few more details, and I will have a good deal of stock on hand for all calibers. It's a coming, just a ton of daily work. Lord nows it has been a TON of work.:groner:

[.30/30 Guy]

The Amazon link that Ben provided above looks good. I went to Ace Hardware yesterday and paid $21.99 plus tax for a spare roll.

[Bloodman14]

Mugs, got the aluminum; will try it this weekend and let you know.

[Jim Sheldon]

My 4" X 50' roll of .014 Amerimax will be here tomorrow according to the tracking #. Now all I have to do is be patient until Pat gets the last bugs out of the .32/8mm Checkmaker.

I've got around 500 205 grain 8mm boolits tumble lubed and drying ready to size, mount checks and test when I finally get to make some.

Meanwhile I've got a couple of rimfire postal matches to keep me occupied for the rest of the week. I'm tied with 3 others for first in the International one and currently sitting 3rd in the U.S. only one. The Anschutz 1451ST I traded a Sig Mosquito for is really a tack driver.

Jim

[pistolman44]

Here is a place you can buy copper in .010 & .016. They have sheets ,rolls and strips. www.basiccopper.com

[skimmerhead]

called local ace it wasn't in stock so they ordered it friday will be in thur. no shipping charge, got the 10"/50' 42.00. i found that reasonable from what i found on the webb. all i did was give em the name and the number thats posted on this thread and it was a go. any one can't get any let me know i'll get some and ship it at cost.

skimmerhead