Talk me into or out of buying a 20" metal/woodcutting bandsaw

[Russel Nash]

I found a used Delta/Rockwell twenty inch metal and wood cutting bandsaw on craig's list.

it has the built in welder and grinder for the bandsaw blades. the seller wants a thousand bucks for it.

the only catch is it is 3 phase. :(

I talked to the seller on Sunday and I have tentatively set it up to go see this bandsaw in person.

bear with me for a moment....I am not all that versed on metal cutting bandsaws. wood...oh heck yeah...I used to teach classes on how to make Shaker oval boxes. so I spent many hours behind my 18" woodcutting bandsaw with its carbide tipped blade resawing cherry timbers into just under an eighth inch thick strips.

are there any signs I should look for to see if this metal/woodcutting bandsaw has been abused?

by the pictures and the description the seller was giving me over the phone, it sounds like there is a gear box of some sort that keeps everything transmission-wise bathed in either hydraulic fluid or oil.

if you have a large metal cutting bandsaw like that ....just what kind of things do you do with it?

I mean...any particular projects.

I only ask because I get really bad buyer's guilt/remorse with large ticket items like that.

it would make it easier in my mind to rationalize that kind of purchase (versus just a port-a-band) if I can foresee me making some worthwhile projects (money making) with that bandsaw.

since I shoot steel challenge and USPSA "action pistol" matches I can picture my self making up steel targets (pepper poppers, drop turners, bear traps) with that "new " bandsaw. (but I am guessing AR400 or AR500 type steels would be near impossible to cut with a bandsaw...I also foresee a plasma cutter in my future, too)

pardon my longish post aNd my naive questions.

thanks!

[Bret4207]

Right, you come HERE of all places to get the juveniles that inhabit this place to talk you OUT of spending money on a really cool tool?!!!! Fat chance that'll happen!

If I had the $$$ I'd be snatching that sucker up so fast I'd get heat rash. I don't know what to look for other than the obvious transmission noises, worn bearings, stuff like that. I'd want to see it run at wood cutting speeds 'cuz if something is gonna get hot or break it'll happen going fast. A phase converter will solve the 3 phase issue.

I'd be building my dream boats and cabinets if I had that.

[Russel Nash]

yeah...yeah...I know...I have had the PM discussions withe other members here about some of you all being "enablers"... (for being a psych major in college....there are just times that I absolutely hate psycho babble talk...especially when it comes to sticking a label on somebody)

I do or at least I used to do a lot of woodworking. not to toot my own horn but I got an article published in fine woodworking back in 2002 I think it was. it was basically a how to article on a shopmade tenoning jig out of scrap plywood/MDF you have around your shop.. for that, I used three eighths by sixteen threads to the inch threaded rod to adjust it. the great thing about that rod is that one full turn of it equates to a sixteenth of linear travel. a quarter turn equals a sixty-fourth.

anywhoo...I then leveraged that article into teaching classes on the weekends at the woodcraft store in St. Louis. one of the classes I taught was on how to make Shaker oval boxes. I would buy these heavy cherry timbers and then resaw them into thin strips. I have an 18" General International (read that as Taiwan-ese made) bandsaw equipped with a carbide tipped blade for resawing.

I guess I would cut those strips close to an eighth thick and then feed them into the Delta drum sander that I have....to get the strips even thinner and to take off the bandsaw blade's saw marks.

anywhoo...it was quite the process for me to get ready for a class....making pipe anvils...shapers/forms...which reminds me....I could corner the shaker oval box market with stainless steel ball peen hammers...if I only had a metalworking lathe....(sigh)

but what is really bugging me about the whole woodworking hobby is that I don't have the space to adequately get a finish on those projects....that I would be happy with. otherwise...oh! heck! YEAH! I would already be in business for myself....probably struggling in this economy and practically giving my time away for free.

s other than not having a large enough dust free and temperature/humidity controlled space...

that is why I am itching to do more metalworking type of projects.... to avoid the finishing aspect of woodworking.(that and I suspect that other than kitchen cabinets...that maybe less than 5% of the st. louis population would really appreciate a handbuilt one off period furniture piece and I reckon that only one percent of them would have the funds to pay for something like that.) I don't have a clue as to what to build just yet....well...besides steel targets... it just seems like anything gun related...or gun in the name...WHAMO! the price gets jacked up by about three times.

I envision getting a welder...a plasma cutter...a large enough air compressor to drive said plasma cutter...a lathe and then a bridgeport at some point.

hmnnn...decisions....decisions

:veryconfu

[Russel Nash]

thanks for your reply Bret.

sorry if I repeated so much of my original post in my second post. I work nights. I just got up and I am punching all this in on a keyboard about a inch and a half by four inches with a screen that is about two inches by three.

well....that's my story and I am sticking to it. :mrgreen:

[deltaenterprizes]

It is adequate for aluminum 1 1/2'' to 2'' and mild steel up to about 1/2'' thick bigger than that the parts get too heavy to handle.
I doubt mild steel will last long for steel targets, they are usually made from AR plate and I do not think the blade would last long . Water jet or plasma or laser is better and cheaper. I have seen waterjet pieces cut for about the cost of the steel.

[dragonrider]

You will be better off with a plasma cutter. Forget the bandsaw.

[Russel Nash]

okAy....thanks....that is kinda what I was thinking....that a plasma cutter would be better and less of a hassle to set up especially for holes or curves in the middle of something.

a shooting buddy of mine is in the steel target making business. try www.gunsteel.com and that is what he does....has full sheets of three eighths thick AR400 or AR500 ... a place puts the full sheet onto their plasma-cam...which also optimizes the number of sizes and shapes he can get out of each sheet...then just sit back and watch it cut for about fifteen minutes.

as far as the targets I was thinking about making...it would just be typical A36 mild steel for the bases which would probably be made out of angle iron. I have gotten away with using A36 for the plate the bullets actually strike...but it has been just with a 9, .40 or .45 or.22 rimfire.

absolutely no rifle.

one of the things I would like to do...or rather re-do are my channel iron ingot moulds. there o might be better served with just a port-a-band. oh...well...

thanks again for the replies.

[Just Duke]

Get the band saw Russell. You'll still need it.
You can find brand new 1 phase Baldor motors on ebay for a good price. Replace the upper and lower wheel bearings and you have basically a new saw.

[bearcove]

I've used them a bit at work, for cutting round stock angle tube etc. The work good on straight cuts. You need one that wet cuts for metals, or you will go broke buying blades. Our big dry saws eat blades and are not fun to use and that is on nonferrous.

[PatMarlin]

I passed on a nice older Powermatic for that price.

My foot is still stuck in my rear over that one ...:mrgreen:

You need a good USA bi-metal blade. They last.

[Russel Nash]

well...I decided that for what I want to do...like someone mentioned above...that I would be better served with a plasma cutter. for now though, I might just buy a porta band. it really is one of those things where the steel I would be buying would be so long that it would be unwieldly to cut on a vertical bandsaw....so that's where bringing the tool to the work is easier and safer to do.

soooo.....I got this crazy idea to see whAt else was on craigslist...sure enoughm I found a delta dj20 eight inch jointer.

I have a parks 12" jointer-planer (yes! jointer-planer!) that is just a big pain to use. yes theoretically you could face joint a twelve inch wide board, but the table tops aRe so short as to make it impractical.

using the planer bottom half is also kinda a pain because the machine was made back in the day when dust collection was an afterthought. I cobbled something up with duct work fittings but stll get a fair number shavings making it to the floor.

[PatMarlin]

I bought a Miller plasma cutter year before last and it is a real nice compact torch.

It is both 120 and 220v, and is perfect for my solar system power because it wil take up to 30 amps I believe in 120v and I can cut 1/2" plate without 220. Slow at the rate, but it gets the job done.

It will blow through 3/8" easily in 120v. I've cut quite a bit with the same tip on it. Price was about $1100 and worth every penny. Doesn't have a 100% duty cycle, but it does have safe auto pause on it so you can't burn it up if you wanted to.

If you need a horizontal band saw, the $199 ($170 or so on sale) Harbor Freight 6" is a work horse running a USA made Bi-metal blade. They just don't die. No thermal SW on the motor though, and mine pinched when I walked away one time and smoked the chicong motor.

Replaced it with a Grainger with thermal sw. It is so compact and handy. I cut all of my steel with it, and have used it commercially for 4 years now. I have a big USA made Kalamazoo, but the HF is so convenient and I park it right along side my Bridgeport.

I run a MORSE Bi- metal blade and only need to change it once a year about. They last a long time. The chinese ones are pure junk.

[Russel Nash]

I did a search on St. Louis Craig's List, and found this:

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/tls/1928024445.html

It is an absolute beast. It is sitting in the back of my truck right now. $150, and it does run.

I am looking forward to doing some work on my birdshot maker.

:bigsmyl2:

[Just Duke]

YOU STOLE IT!
That's the holy grail of bandsaws. We need pics Russel!!! :)

[Just Duke]

I gota show this to Blake.

[Just Duke]

Can we see your shop Russel?

[Russel Nash]

well, Duke, there is a reason why that Craig's list ad just had one pic. It is rough. It runs, very quietly and without any vibration....I just haven't cut anything with it yet. It is 110Volts. [smilie=w:

I will let you all know in a few hours though how it cuts. I got a bunch of blades with it too. Thanks Pat for the info on the Morse blades.

And you thought you had basket cases....jeesh....ya ain't seen nothing...:shock:

As you might be able to tell from the pic in the Craig's List ad, the legs are a casting....

So I don't know what happened...the saw fell off the back of a truck...or what...

was down in somebody's basement and then decided to cut it apart to get it up the stairs. :confused:

then somebody welded it back together....

yeah seriously....:veryconfu

Since the thing is so heavy I will probably take most of it apart so I can safely wheel it down some ramps off my truck's tailgate. all the while I am taking it apart I will look for more repairs...empty holes and other miscellaneous broken pieces.

As far as my shop goes....pffttt....It is a tiny one car detached garage...13 foot by 22 foot. You know how big a delta unisaw is, right?.... with the side feed table/rails and an outfeed table??? that takes up a lot of space in my small shop.

everything is on wheels.

there is definitely no way I could ever turn it into a commercial business or enterprise....I remember when I worked in a stair shop. I had to have 16 feet of infeed and 16 feet of outfeed for when I ripped down material that would be finished stringers.

Duke, I will have to send you a PM one of these days. I think at one point you said that you were a member of the Society of American Period Furniture Makers (SAPFM)???

[Russel Nash]

Ugg...talk about a money pit. :groner:

Oh...well...at least I am learning some stuff along the way, even if they are school of hard knocks kinda lessons.

The motor crapped out on me.

double :groner:

So I took the one off my small-ish wood working lathe (since I never turn anything), made a base plate for that so it could attach to the saw. (yeah, I get to hone my laying out, center punching, drilling, and tapping skills (double yeah! no broken taps) )

Oh...I learned how to wire up an electric motor too.

So I got it running, now. It just purrs right along. Then I tried to cut some angle iron with it.

Since it is missing it's spring on the back side that acts kinda like a counterbalance, all the weight was bearing on the blade.

That first cut didn't turn out too well.

So for the second cut I stood there and let the saw down through the metal very easily. I got my biceps work out doing that.

And in the process, that old blade I put on there got turned quickly into little nubbins.

Jeesh...

So I just found a place in St. Louis that will weld up a Starret blade for me. 11 foot 6 inches by 3/4" by 0.032 thick, 10/14 variable pitch bimetal blade for $41.60 (plus tax I am ASSuming).

I just got off the phone with the Wellsaw people and they still stock parts for their old saws. That's always a plus.

[Russel Nash]

Ooops...I forgot the moral to my story...

When buying old stuff off of Craig's List:

1. if it is electric plug it in right away and let it run and run and run some more.

2. do a google image search for the product and print out pictures so when I go in person to check out the item, I can more easily tell what is missing.

[Russel Nash]

Wheewwiiiee!

I feel better now about my saw. I did some more image googl'ing...this time for "wellsaw dashpot" .

And I found this saw:

(Duke avert your eyes before you scroll down)

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/saw3.jpg

wow! Just wow!

What do people do to these saws??? :sad:

[Just Duke]

Ugg...talk about a money pit. :groner:

Oh...well...at least I am learning some stuff along the way, even if they are school of hard knocks kinda lessons.

The motor crapped out on me.

double :groner:

So I took the one off my small-ish wood working lathe (since I never turn anything), made a base plate for that so it could attach to the saw. (yeah, I get to hone my laying out, center punching, drilling, and tapping skills (double yeah! no broken taps) )

Oh...I learned how to wire up an electric motor too.

So I got it running, now. It just purrs right along. Then I tried to cut some angle iron with it.

Since it is missing it's spring on the back side that acts kinda like a counterbalance, all the weight was bearing on the blade.

That first cut didn't turn out too well.

So for the second cut I stood there and let the saw down through the metal very easily. I got my biceps work out doing that.

And in the process, that old blade I put on there got turned quickly into little nubbins.

Jeesh...

So I just found a place in St. Louis that will weld up a Starret blade for me. 11 foot 6 inches by 3/4" by 0.032 thick, 10/14 variable pitch bimetal blade for $41.60 (plus tax I am ASSuming).

I just got off the phone with the Wellsaw people and they still stock parts for their old saws. That's always a plus.

Russel I have a couple spare 220 motors. You pay shipping. Give me a jingle if you have the chance sir.

[Russel Nash]

Thanks Duke for your gracious offer!

For now, I will see how long or well my current set up runs or lasts.

[Russel Nash]

sounds too good to be true, eh?

http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/tls/1974581089.html

[uncle joe]

Russel
if your cutting thin metal less than 1/2 inch in shapes, the plasma is the way to go. If you will be just cutting metal in straight lines and doing a lot of it, you need one of the horizontal saws you posted a pic of. Where I work we do a lot of cutting when we need a piece or two or need to cut something in the field we use a cutoff blade in a side grinder. they will cut anything you need to cut and do a good job when you get the hang of holding it steady. I once had a guy narrow up a 45 foot long dip tank that was made of 3/8inch plate, he made two cuts down the center and took out a foot all with a 10 inch abrasive wheel or I should say wheels, took quite a few. The guy was going on 70 years old and did all the work by himself. Old boilermakers are hard to beat when it comes to metal working.

[bohica2xo]

Russel:

You can buy those blades from McMaster - Carr... for less than 20 bucks each.

Hope you did not spring for the other ones yet.

B.

[Just Duke]

sounds too good to be true, eh?

http://springfieldil.craigslist.org/tls/1974581089.html

You can fix that bad boy up Russel!!!! :holysheep Paint and a Biesmeyer fence and you'll be ready to go. Check to make sure it's not 3 phase.

[Russel Nash]

a'yup, I already emailed about it. It is a widow who now owns it. It was her husband's. He died 3 years ago.

So in her email reply back she said she had no clue if it was 3 phase or single phase ...or what???

I think I am going to call her and ask her what kinda socket/outlet does it get plugged into.

[Russel Nash]

Uncle Joe wrote:


Russel
if your cutting thin metal less than 1/2 inch in shapes, the plasma is the way to go. If you will be just cutting metal in straight lines and doing a lot of it, you need one of the horizontal saws you posted a pic of. Where I work we do a lot of cutting when we need a piece or two or need to cut something in the field we use a cutoff blade in a side grinder. they will cut anything you need to cut and do a good job when you get the hang of holding it steady. I once had a guy narrow up a 45 foot long dip tank that was made of 3/8inch plate, he made two cuts down the center and took out a foot all with a 10 inch abrasive wheel or I should say wheels, took quite a few. The guy was going on 70 years old and did all the work by himself. Old boilermakers are hard to beat when it comes to metal working.

Yeah, we call those wafer blades, and if you're gonna do a lot of cutting like that, getting a Metabo is the way to go:

http://www.contractorstoolsupply.com/metabo-6-angle-grindercutoff-we14150quick-p-1965.html

it takes a special 6" wheel that still has plenty of meat on it after you have been grinding or cutting for a while.

Since I am sharing this one car detached garage with woodworking tools, wood/lumber, and lots of dust, I am kinda against generating lots of sparks. well, with a tool that shoots sparks everywhere/anywhere.

A plasma cutter would be better as long as the material is horizontal and the sparks shoot straight down to the floor or ground.

I don't know what I would use it for, but I always thought those plasma-CAM systems would be neat/fun.

[Russel Nash]

the lady with the Unisaw called me. She said it plugs into a normal 110V outlet.

Jeesh....:groner:

what would I do with another tablesaw.

[azcruiser]

big saw =http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=3761493&convertTo=USD

[home in oz]

I have used a wood one some to make trim for a painted lady, but never a metal saw

[PatMarlin]

big saw


fixed-

http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/view?id=3761493&convertTo=USD**************

That saw takes blades as big as my Woodmizer ...:shock: