Developing a 40 s&w cast load

[bronco9588]

I would first like to say that I am new to casting my own "boolits" and want to get some information about shooting cast rounds out of my automatic 229 sig. I became interested in lead boolits based on their economy and training value. My purpose for this round is solely to establish my first cast round and to use these rounds for plinking at targets.

1) I am mainly concerned with the lack of load data out there pertaining to lead boolits. I have some bullseye, clays, and universal powder and remington, cci, and winchester primers. I currently have the lee 2nd edition reload manual that has lots of information, but it seems taylored to cast rifle rounds. I am looking at getting the lee truncated cone 175 grain 6 cavity mold for my setup. I feel very confident in my ability to mix and match alloys to get a desired hardness. However, upon reading a table in the lee handbook, it appears that i need a really high hardness for my boolits. Assuming that the round is undergoing 35000 psi and I devide that by 1422 to convert to BHN and devide by .9 to convert from ultimate strenght to yield strength, I need something on the order of 27 BHN which appears very high. I am guessing that most automatics are shooting quenched WW with a BHN around 18. Are these shooters using less PSI powders (slower???), less powder, gas checks, or just dismissing the lee cast data?

2) I am in search of some more books on the topic and starting to collect lead before in jump in on the project. I have tried researching 40 cast data, but high pressure automatics seem to have less information on the topic. I.E. 40 and 9mm. This could just be out of ignorance.

3) Anyone have any experience with cast boolits in sigs, I would love to know more.

[kawalekm]

That is being way too analytical. Just cast some bullets in #2 alloy and test away. A 175 grainer is only going to be moving at 1000 fps tops, and that alloy works just fine in my Ruger pistol. I shoot Lyman's 175 grain TC cast in #2 alloy (wheelweights+5% tin) with 9.5 grains of BlueDot. I get excellent performance with minimal leading.

Get Lyman's latest (49th ed.) manual. It lists about 25-30 different cast loads for their 175 grain bullets. By the way, this same load shoots well in my .40S&W rifle, that has significantly higher velocity than my handgun.

[9.3X62AL]

No SIG 40 caliber work here, but lots of 9mm time with castings (P-226 and P-228 in the safe).

I have had very good results with the Lee 175 TC boolit design in a Beretta 96--CZ-75B--and now a Glock 23 with Storm Lake barrel. My goals were similar to your own--I wanted to develop a load that matched ballistically with my carry load, the 180 grain W-W STX Ranger that runs ~950 FPS from the 4.5" barrels and ~920 FPS from the Glock's 4.0" tube. Blue Dot, Herco, and Unique all did creditable work--and so did WW-231. The WW-231 used significantly less powder weight to achieve the desired velocity, so I opted for it as my go-to loading. 4.7 grains of W-W231, with the boolit seated to a length giving .020" of protrusion of the boolit's front drive band from the case mouth edge. That is 1.135" with my components.

All three pistols shot without leading using boolits sized at .401". 40 S&W barrels seem to have MUCH better adherence to nominal dimensional standards than do 9mm barrels. In high pressure autopistol applications like 9mm, 40 S&W, and 10mm--I find it best to treat the calibers like I treat rifles--strict adherence to dimensional integrity, fairly hard alloys, and fairly soft lubes. Adherence to dimensional integrity provides a LOT of "cheat" in both rifles and in the high-pressure autopistols, as far as alloy strength/pressure relationships are concerned. I use 92/6/2 alloy in most of these applications, and after 200-300 shots I show zero to only slight leading in any barrel. Lube is Alox/beeswax 50/50, Javelina or Lee sticks.

I have been able to down-load the 40 S&W using WW-231 to 4.0 grains of that powder, and still have reliable functioning with these "target" loads for the kids and wife using the 175 Lee boolit. The Glock is light, and bounces around some with the service-level loads. These loads still run 775-800 FPS, and are DEAD-NUTS ACCURATE. This may be the one advantage the faster Winchester powder has over the slower fuels--when downloaded 15%, the slow powders started stovepiping and trapping brass. The WW-231 loads just hum right along, and the girls love shooting that Glock.

[9.3X62AL]

One other caveat crosses my mind--DO NOT get enthusiastic with the taper crimp on ANY cast boolit load. The action of taper crimp dies will reduce boolit diameter if applied overly much, which will set up leading. Also, DO NOT set whatever taper crimp you do apply while the boolit is being seated--set the crimp as a separate die step.

As far as taper crimp seating dies in autopistol calibers are concerned--they are from the devil. I would venture to say that more autopistol barrels get leaded from the over-use of taper crimping than any other single source. ALL THAT IS NEEDED is to turn the case mouth flare straight--NO MORE. THAT'S IT.

Ranting, raving, and consciousness-raising complete, and we return you to your regularly-scheduled programming now. :)

[S.R.Custom]

The following has come about from my work with the Beretta 96, but I don't see why the same wouldn't apply to the Sig:

Water quenched wheelweight will be more than sufficient for your purposes for all but the hottest loads.

The lead boolit profile that works best in the .40 is the 175 grain (or close) Truncated Cone unit. It's reliable, accurate when sized to .401" or so, and will give a firm enough handshake for training purposes. As for safe data, any data published for the 175 or 180 gr jacketed bullet can be substituted for the lead boolit if OAL guidelines are adhered to.

Suitable powders range from the likes of 231 and Unique up to AA#7. Allen mentioned Herco, and that's one of my faves. Really fast powders like Bullseye are limited by an early pressure rise and leave volocities a bit lacking. I'll no doubt get some argument there --I always do; some guys just love their BullsEye-- but that pretty much sums up my experience. The old YMMV caveat applies here...

[bronco9588]

well to be honest, I have reloaded rifle rounds, but never pistol. I figure it cant be too hard if you follow directions. I think i will buy some bullets before I get into casting because I need to start collecting lead. That way I can learn how to load pistol rounds before getting into casting. Thanks for your help. Upon further browsing, it seems that I need to get the Lyman book. Unfortunately bullseye, clays, and universal are the only powders I can get before heading south again so one must be able to work for the project.

[S.R.Custom]

...Unfortunately bullseye, clays, and universal are the only powders I can get before heading south again so one must be able to work for the project.

They'll work, it's just that the others mentioned are preferable. Just watch for pressure signs as you work up to the higher velocities.

[mtgrs737]

Bronco,

I too am feeling my way around the 40 S&W cast boolit loading data field. I had bought a Lee 6 cavity 175gr. TC mould that was out of spec from Midway. A quick call to Pat at Lee confirmed that .005" out of round was out of spec and he said send it in to him and he would replace it. In a few days the new mould came back and you could tell he had test cast with it as two cavities were smoked. The new mould cast "Perfect" boolits using plain WW alloy the boolits being no more than .0005" (half a thousandth) out of round which could be caused by my grip on the handles during pouring dropped out at .403" to .404" diameter. I sized .4015" and lubed them with Lar's excellent BAC lube and loaded them over 7.1 grs. of Blue Dot. I seated the boolits to 1.125" OAL and they functioned fine. No leading in my Hk what so ever.

[NuJudge]

I've been using the Lee TL401-175 SWC with great results, using wheelweight scrap and some added Tin, and water dropping the bullets to increase hardness. I'm firing them in a Beretta 96G police trade-in pistol. I've fired 500+ of them through the pistol, the only jams being during initial load work-up, and then only with once-lubed bullets.

I did get a Lee 401-175 TC, but the mold dropped a different size from each cavity, between .402"-.405". The only way I could get them through my Star lubricator was to Tumble Lube them first.

Regarding the Tumble Lube bullet, I lightly Tumble Lube, run them through the sizer, then lightly TL them again. I tried shooting some just Tumble Lubing and loading, but they did not feed as well: apparently the more lube on the nose aids feeding.

I worked up a load with Accurate Arms #7, which I happen to have a lot of. It gives the highest velocities in the .40 Short & Weak of all the Accurate Arms powders. Accurate Arms has a website that has data for Lead and Jacketed bullets in it. It does leave a dusting of unburned powder on your range shooting table, but nothing objectionable. I've run better than 150 rounds of a bit less than maximum loads through the pistol, and it was still merrily chugging away.

[milsurp mike]

I load the Lee 401 175 gr. in My S&W Sigma in 40 cal and they work great.I use 5.1 gr. of bulls-eye with WW lead and a Little Lino and it is a very acc. load.I have probably fired 500-600 of these without issue.Mike

[HammerMTB]

I shoot Lee 175 TC's in both 40S&W and 10MM. They work in both, but I dump a lot of them shooting bowling pins and USPSA with .40 brass.
I say that because I shoot .40 brass thru a stock Glock 10MM tube, with minimal leading. It will go 200-300 rounds and just show some lead in the bbl.
My most common loads are 6.8 of AA5 and 4.9 of 700X
Neither of these get anywhere close to 35,000 PSI.
Prolly don't get over 20,000 PSI, and all of my boolits are ACWW, at about 11 BHN.
Don't believe everything you read, whether from the Lee load manual or here. Hardness is not everything. Fit is king.
Make sure your boolit fits your bbl and you will be fine.

[Rangefinder]

I too am enjoying cast loads in .40 S&W. I'm using the LEE 2-CAV TC you've mentioned, but with straight WW it throws an even 180gr. I had been using a hard lube, but have recently just went to straight LLA without any issues--it actually tightened up just a tid-bit with my lower velocity load and ran identical (so near as the eye can tell) in my higher grain loads. Shooting straight water-dropped WW's in front of 4gr Red Dot, and bump to 4.6gr for a little more snap. Makes a nice, very accurate plinking load in my Sigma---runs very clean, too.

[ItZaLLgooD]

I am running 5.4 grs of AutoComp under the Lee TL401-175 SWC . I have tried Unique but it seemed to lead a little more than the AutoComp. I am not sure about velocity but they feel just a bit lighter than the Federal 180 grainers I get at Wallt world.

[9.3X62AL]

My "default" alloy for both rifle work and the 9mm/40 S&W/10mm calibers is 92/6/2. Dittoes to the "Fit Is King" reference above. Softer alloys can provide a lot of "cheat" under pressure if they fit well, but an undersized Linotype boolit will bush down a barrel in short order.