2 Cavity vs 4 and 6 cavity Molds.

[Colorado4wheel]

I am a new caster. I started off using Lee 6 cavity molds. I had several problems. I finally got a Lyman 4 cavity and still have issues with things but I am figuring things out slowly it seems. Just for fun I thought I would try another Lee 6 Cavity (sent the others back) and a Lee 2 Cavity. The 6 Cavity was for 9mm and the 2 cavity was for .380. Anyway, the 6 cavity had sticky pins again (before I even used it the first time). It was just a repeat of the past. PITA to get up to temp, galling on the top, etc. I use bullplate lube, I removed burrs before starting all the stuff people recommend. Then I pull out the little 2 cavity and start casting. It's up to temp in about 2 cast (I use a hot plate to pre heat the molds). It's dropping the nicest prettiest bullets I have ever made in zero time with zero effort. It's not galling the mold, they fall right out and I can open the sprue plate with a gloved hand. I can cast as fast as I can pour because the sprue solidifies very quickly (maybe because they are so small?). I don't shoot a lot of .380. Thats why I got the cheap 2 cavity mold from Lee. It seems with the 4 and 6 cavity I have to pour about 1" of my lead pot full of metal just to get them close to right. I waste a lot of time doing that, adding more lead after I get it up to temp so that I can pour a full pot with a good mold. I am thinking I waste so much time doing all that with the bigger molds that I may just be better off using 2 cavity molds for everything. It seems with my Lyman 4 cavity that even pouring the lead at 750F it takes a long time for the sprue to cool. I shoot a lot (20K a year of 9mm) and need to make a lot of bullet quickly. But I seem to spend the majority of time fighting a mold and getting it up to temp. Then restocking the pot, getting it back up to temp (while the mold stays close to temp on the hotplate), then I finally get to start casting bullets till I run out of lead and spend another 30 mins doing it all again. I am done with Lee 6 Cavity Molds but even the Lyman 4 cavity seems slow when you factor in the time getting it up to temp. Any thoughts?

[prs]

I've had really good lperformance with the six cavity molds. My limited experience with the double cavity Lee molds has not been as successful as they seem to not be as durable. Good thing to have choices. My 6 cavity technique is to cast fast and frosty. I start keeping boolits when the first cavity filled is still molten after the last cavity is full. I rest the mold on wood until it begins to bet too hot and then on a piece of aluminum angle as a heat sink. I ue two 6 bangers at a time, thus one is being filled while the other "freezes" and the timing seems to be just right with easy spru slicing and still a relaxed pace. I als run two 20# bottom pour pots, one revcovers while I deplete the other, again, the timing works out really well. All of that sail, I am casting .454 250gr boolits and if you are casting smaller pills, it may be more difficult to get up to those temps as quickly.

prs

[HammerMTB]

I have a lot of molds. Most are Lee 6-bangers. They will turn out a lot of good quality boolits in a hurry, but as most things Lee, they need some Leementing to get there.
I have 2 cav molds too, and tho they are a bit easier to run, they put out proportionately less product.
If you want to turn out a lot of boolits quickly, the 6 cav is the way to go.
I made 500 10MM boolits last night in 1.5 hours. It was not a record, but a pretty brisk pace.
BTW, there are 10 cav molds out there. They are cast iron, so you may need the arms of Arnie to use them for long.

[Echo]

As HMTB said, leementing may be required on your 6-banger. Probably a good idea to do, anyway.

I use only one 6-banger at a time, and have to cool it down, which I do by laying it sprue-side down on a sopping shop towel and let it steam for a few seconds. I start by setting the mold on top of the furnace as it comes up to temp (haven't advanced to a PID controller yet) and start casting good boolets within a couple of pours. Generally run the pot ~ 700, maybe plus. Restocking the pot is no hassle - I put an ingot or two on the rim of the furnace to warm up. When I put them in (with channel-locks), I replace with others. And do all this with full cavities to keep the mold temp up. I know to cool the mold when the sprues start breaking when I knock them off. Alloy is generally WW+2%Sn, or something close. And satin boolets are welcome.

(Boolets are .45 and under - over .45, I call them Boos)

[fecmech]

First of all the 4 and 6 cav molds need a 20 lb pot, if you are using the small Lee pot you are beat before you start. I put my 4 and 6 cav molds across the top of my pot when I turn it on covered with a piece of aluminum foil. I come back in a half hour and start casting with good bullets on the first pour. Fold up a wash cloth in an old saucer and soak it in water. After you pour your mold ,watch the spru. When it sucks in turn your mold upside down on the wet wash cloth for about a second. This will prevent the lead from smearing when you cut the spru. With 6 cav molds I easily run 700-800 bullets in an hour, a little less with the 4 cav. I cast with the thermostat on the pot maxed out with the aluminum 6 cavs and back off a little with the iron 4 cavs. Hope this helps.

[mooman76]

6x can be a pita for new guys. Some get up to speed quick and some take a little longer. I prefer the 2x myself unless I know I will be going through allot of one style bullet. The 2x come up to speed quick and you can knock out a few hundred in no time. Practice on the 2x until you get it down good and then you can cast with the 6x easier.

[Colorado4wheel]

It's not a lementing issue. The bullets are well formed. It's galls under the pivot of the sprue plate. So then the plate rises and bullets vary. I lemented it and have good fill out. Biggest issue is the mold just sticks. It runs and then sticks. It's because the pins are not properly aligned. If the front opens slightly sooner then the back then it sticks. I had a issue with the that. Becuase its dropping bullets easily the bullets dropped and jammed/wedged the entire mold up tight. I think it warped when that happened because it jammed up so fast and so solid that I was still opening the mold as it locked up. Either way, once it did that it stopped working at all. I am sending it back to Lee. In my opinion the mold should open and close easily while cool and hot. It's shouldn't bind up on a random basis.

[RayinNH]

We had the same problem with my son's 9mm 6 cavity Lee. We ended up setting the pins (males) back a bit. If I recall we used a small socket, 1/4" drive, that would straddle the pin but yet not exceed the size of the larger pin diameter. We used a shop press but could probably used an arbor press or hammer. They are very tight. It cast beautifully now.

You may need to remove the sprue plate and file the top smooth again to get rid of the galling. This problem will only get worse.

If you don't feel up to the task send it back and let them fix it. You shouldn't have to do this, but when you want to cast with a mold, it's frustrating to send it back and have another delay...Ray

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

I realize I am in the minority, considering the fact that I have tried bottom pour pots and don't like them, but part of what I read above is simply trying to cast faster then the cooling of the mold/alloy will allow.

I like to pot cast, with the use of a Rowell bottom pour ladle and when casting handgun boolits, like to team cast with a partner.

Doing so, we would use 4 or 5 molds, rotating from mold to mold and thereby allowing ample time for each mold to cool before opening.

Even though each mold is allowed ample cooling time, because of the number of molds in use, each of us is as rapidly as possible taking care of our part of the operation. No one is standing around waiting, but rather is quickly moving from mold to mold in the line up.

I have cast with a number of molds -- 3 - 4 -- by myself, but my choice is the team method with me pouring and the partner opening.

Eather way, use of more then one mold will help allow the needed cooling time to prevent "gauling" of boolit bases, caused by opening before the alloy has properly cooled.

The molds may be 2, 4, or 6 cavity in any combination, depending on what I need.

The last couple time I cast, I cast with a 2 cavity RCBS 45/70 405gr mold, and as I was casting by myself for a new rifle, the process was very slow when compared to my normal operation

I have a new LBT, 4 cavity mold for the 45/70 on order, and see no reason not to throw it into the line up with other molds once it arrives.

However, just to get some boolits ASAP, it may be used by itself for the first go around.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[gray wolf]

I have to agree that trying to use a 6 hole with a 10# pot is spitting in the wind.
If you are not having trouble with the mold and everything is going smooth you will eat up the pot of lead and be re filling, and wasting time.
Casting bullets is an easy task--BUT-- it requires that certain things or lets call them the ducks--must be in a row.
There are many new casters here and I read all the time how they are using six hole molds to get started. Sure you can do it, but I don't think many will.
Alloy must be correct, mold temp needs to be right and the metal temp must be right,
and naturally fluxing must be done in the correct manor.
Lee molds can be very nice to use, but can also be a problem for a new guy.
No bout a doubt it.
You new guys need to slow down, that's not a put down. We just want you to get it right and be safe and enjoy the hobby. Not have a frustrating time and pack it in for one reason or another.
If we stop and think we can most time find the reason for everything that is going wrong.
You have to fix one thing at a time, and be sure it's right before you go on to the next issue.
Just my thoughts on it guys.

P/S I myself am having problems now and I no what it is. I have a bunch of metal 60-70 pounds now, and it is in desperate need of a little tin. I don't have it but I keep trying to cast with it and keep having the same problems. But at least I know what it is and I can work around it to a degree.

Sam.

[fredj338]

Lee rpoducts are like that, they work or don't, not much inbetween IME. I run the 3cav & 6cav Lee. I prefer the 6cav when they are right. I "pressure pour" with the spru plate tight against the spout for each cav. Works great. I use moly spray on the under side of the spru plate, seems to work for gauling. Are you lubing the pins? This is really important. As already noted, 4-6cav molds w/ anything smaller than a 20# pot is just slowing you down as you add alloy too often.

[35 Whelen]

I've used Lee moulds with pretty much the same experience as you. I did have a Lee 6-cavity 45 cal. 230 gr. RN., and it worked well, but it had not been used much when I acquired it. I cast about 20 lbs. of bullets with it then sold it. I had a Lee "Fat 30" 6-cavity and it was (is) a pile of junk. I have a few 2-cavity Lee's and they're OK for awhile, then they seem to loosen up, gall, etc. I'm pretty much finished with Lee moulds.
I also had one of Veral Smith's 4-cavity aluminum moulds for a 45 ACP 225 gr, WFN. Hands down the best mould I've ever owned. The quality was unbelievable. I currently have an NEI aluminum 4-cavity 30 caliber mould and it too is a very, very good mould. I've cast a few thousand bullets with it and all I've ever done is replace the sprue plate. Ditto for my Group Buy NOE aluminum 4-cavity .30 caliber mould. So far, I've cast almost 1000 bullets with it and it shows no signs of problems. An old H&G .358" 4-cavity iron mould works flawlessly too. I also once had a Lyman 4-cavity 358495 that worked very well. With any of these moulds I can turn out about 10 bullets per minute.
Like others said, a 20 lb. pot is imperative. I use a old Saeco and keep the temp setting cranked almost as high as it will go. If my sprues take too long to harden, I hold the mould open for a few seconds in front of a little fan I keep on my bench, then resume casting.
If you shoot 20,000 9mm's a year, you definitely need a good mould such as an NEI or LBT. They both use a harder grade of aluminum then Lee. As far as the 4-cavity Lymans, my method is to fill the pot and lay the mould on top of it to heat up while I'm getting things ready.
35W

[mpmarty]

I've got a dozen or so six cavity LEE molds. They all work fine. I use bullplate on the pins and under the sprue plate. I rest them on a wet folded towel in a pie plate between every other cast and run a 20lb pot at 750 degrees. Boolits pile up so fast I need to get a larger work space for more "drop zones". I also have some two cavity LEE molds for 30 cal rifle and enjoy using them as they are fast and easy with a gloved hand opening the sprue plate the boolits jump out as I open the mold. My RCBS 45/70/405 single cavity mold works OK but takes a long time to come up to temp and is a slow process doing one at a time.

[sargenv]

I own 4 or 5 of the Lee 6 cav molds.. and besides apply Bullplate to them I haven't had to do a thing to make them cast or drop boolits.. I think my favorite of the 6 bangers I have is the 9mm - 125 2R mold. I cast pure lead for the 9mm into 40 boolits and then WW's +2% tine for actual shooting boolits and have had little issue with it since day 1. The 40 cal 175 TC was also really easy to get going. No deburring, smoking, or anything done besides applying bullplate.

The way I warm them up is to pour 4 or 5 full casts (all 6 holes) sans the sprue plate (out of the way really). I let it solidify, then move the sprue towards the lead, and this breaks the halves apart, I return the lead to the pot after each pour and then just start casting.. It yields good results for me. I also adjust my 4-20 pot so that the lead trickles out and doesn't fill the mold too fast. I found that the trickle method works for me but YMMV.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Yep, I agree about the LBT molds.

The one currently on order will be my second.

IMHO, the 2cavity Lee molds are bearly worth their cheap price, while the 6 cavity are a better value.

I have 2 of the 6 cavity Lees, one in 45acp and one in .40 and they do OK for producing boolits for the autos.

Lyman molds always seem loose and need to constently be kept tight while casting.

The RCBS seem to be better constructed and remains tighter then the Lymans.

I have noticed that the Lee 6 cavity also loosen up and must be continuely tightened.

4 cavity Lymans are loose as a goose unless you are always on top of them.

The best Mold I have ever used was/is the LBT 4 cav for my 310gr. 44mag.

Looking forward to the new LBT 45/70 mold!!!!!!!!!!

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[Colorado4wheel]

I am using a 20lb pot. I have had 3 Lee 6 Cavity Molds. ALL have had a variety of problems. But not all had the same problem. Two had sticking pins, I was able to fix one of them. This last one I was not able to fix. The other one cast really light. They all gall, no matter what they do. This one was the worst and I was the most careful with this one. I hear a lot of you guys have good luck with them but not me. You would think they would open and close when you get it and it's new. Not so with two of them.

ANYWAY.

My real question was is the time spent getting the 4 and 6 cavity going worth the trouble? I guess it is from what you guys are saying so I will endevour to make this Lyman work. I pretty much have it figured out. I got the hot plate going and with a little foil holding some heat around it better I can get going relatively quickly now. Thats a improvement. Crusty, Deary Old Coot is right. Some of the trouble is going to fast. I cast a bunch the other day with my Lyman 4 Cav and the Lee 2 Cavity at the same time. All the sprue cut clean. Going slower helped. Thats kinda my 2nd point/question. If I have to wait a long time to get the sprue to solidify on a 4 cavity but the 2 cavity is solid a lot faster maybe I am better off with 2 qty 2 Cav molds? I did a solo Lyman 4 cavity session after I learned to slow down with the double mold session and I was able to go a little faster then when I used two molds and still get good bullets. None of this is fast. All is taking a long time. I really need to be able to just come home, turn the pot on, cast for a hour and get on with life. Not fight molds for 30 mins just getting this thing going.

[35 Whelen]

I failed to mention I also use several Lyman two cavities. Once up to temperature, they too work very well for me. I like them them second only to the high-end aluminum moulds such as the NEI or LBT's. The only problem with them is they cast at about half the rate of the 4-cavity moulds (go figure...).
Anyhow, with either my NEI or NOE 4-cavity moulds, I can empty my 20 lb. pot in less than one hours. That's usually between 350 and 400 .30 caliber bullets; enough for me to shoot three High Power matches after visual and weight sorting.
Have you actually taken a temp reading your melt? Maybe it's just too hot.
35W

[Colorado4wheel]

I failed to mention I also use several Lyman two cavities. Once up to temperature, they too work very well for me. I like them them second only to the high-end aluminum moulds such as the NEI or LBT's. The only problem with them is they cast at about half the rate of the 4-cavity moulds (go figure...).
Anyhow, with either my NEI or NOE 4-cavity moulds, I can empty my 20 lb. pot in less than one hours. That's usually between 350 and 400 .30 caliber bullets; enough for me to shoot three High Power matches after visual and weight sorting.
Have you actually taken a temp reading your melt? Maybe it's just too hot.
35W

Good call, I was pour too hot. I needed it that hot just to get the things to fill out. Then I had a thought that my Lyman Mold needed Leementing. I reopened up the vent lines and now I am able to pour at 750F with good fill out. The sprue also cools faster as well. Probably needed it after the polishing I had done .

[MT Gianni]

454PB has made it a practice to close all 6 cavity molds on a piece of 2x4 to ensure that there is no alignment issues at closing. I only have a few 6 cav, but that seems a good practice to me.

[Colorado4wheel]

That would not have made any difference. The problem was/is that the back will open after (or before) the front and then the mold will jam. One side openes just enough for the bullets to fall out of the cavities but jammed just as they fell and the bullet wedged in the V created by the mold halfs.

[leadman]

My recently purchased Lee 6 cavity molds would stick as you describe when trying to open them. I took a very small round file I bought at a gun show and slightly beveled the inside of the bushing the pin goes into when closed. I found a couple of the bushings had a burr from being cut off on the inside but was difficult to tell until I hit them with the file.
After this I lubed the pins with Bullplate lube and they work fine now. You can take the pivot screw out and clean off the lead and also use BPL here. I found I had to replace the belville (wave) washer on 2 molds with a thicker washer to tighten up the pivot so the sprueplate would not ride up as you describe.

[Bret4207]

I am using a 20lb pot. I have had 3 Lee 6 Cavity Molds. ALL have had a variety of problems. But not all had the same problem. Two had sticking pins, I was able to fix one of them. This last one I was not able to fix. The other one cast really light. They all gall, no matter what they do. This one was the worst and I was the most careful with this one. I hear a lot of you guys have good luck with them but not me. You would think they would open and close when you get it and it's new. Not so with two of them.

ANYWAY.

My real question was is the time spent getting the 4 and 6 cavity going worth the trouble? I guess it is from what you guys are saying so I will endevour to make this Lyman work. I pretty much have it figured out. I got the hot plate going and with a little foil holding some heat around it better I can get going relatively quickly now. Thats a improvement. Crusty, Deary Old Coot is right. Some of the trouble is going to fast. I cast a bunch the other day with my Lyman 4 Cav and the Lee 2 Cavity at the same time. All the sprue cut clean. Going slower helped. Thats kinda my 2nd point/question. If I have to wait a long time to get the sprue to solidify on a 4 cavity but the 2 cavity is solid a lot faster maybe I am better off with 2 qty 2 Cav molds? I did a solo Lyman 4 cavity session after I learned to slow down with the double mold session and I was able to go a little faster then when I used two molds and still get good bullets. None of this is fast. All is taking a long time. I really need to be able to just come home, turn the pot on, cast for a hour and get on with life. Not fight molds for 30 mins just getting this thing going.



Okay, look, no offense meant but if all your moulds are galling then there's some pilot error in play here. I have moulds from single to 10 cav and lot's of Lees of 1,2 and 6 banger style. I have completely ruined Lee moulds and I have others that are a dream to use and haven't got anything other than a lube stain on them. So let me try and help a little.

The pins and pin holes have to be burr free and lubed. That's why they aren't opening easily. Check the holes for burrs, even a sharp pocket knife twisted in the holes will help deburr it. Check the pins for burrs too, a little abrasive paper may be required if there appears to be a rough finish. Then apply a LITTLE lube to the pins- Bullplate, Kroil, Breakfree, beeswax, Never-seize, boolit lube, graphite from a pencil (my choice)- something.

Also- you do have the handles in the correct orientation, right? The sprue handle is right there beside the mould handles, not hanging out in front? I've seen that done.

Galling comes from opening the sprue plate too early and getting molten lead sticking to the bottom of the sprue plate. Stop doing that. At the very, very first sign of galling STOP and clean the bottom of the sprue plate. I use 4/0 steel wool. I also like to rub the bottom of the plate with a carpenters pencil and the top of the mould too, but they say Bullplate works great for that. MAke sure you lube the pivot bolt a little, same as you did with the pins.

Okay, now this wedging of boolits problem. I'm having a hard time visualizing this. You have the handles in your left hand and operate the sprue handle with your right (if right handed). You make your pour and watch the sprue "flash" to solid and wait a couple heartbeats for rest to solidify. Then you operate the sprue handle and swing it well out of it's seat, maybe out to a 45 degree angle or more, maybe 90 degrees, before opening the mould, right? If so how are the boolits wedging?

Let me know if this helps because I think one of these things is your issue. You figure out what you're doing that's nor quite right and your problems will stop.

[Colorado4wheel]

I had to polish the pins a lot with very fine wet sandpaper just to get them close to opening OK. So no burrs.

Wedging is simple. Take a Long 6 Cavity mold. Open the front of the mold while the back of the mold stays closed. Creates a V. The bullets from the front fall into the V. The back pin sticking is causing the issue. Seriously, the molds sucks. It sticks hard when cold. You have to polish it to death just to get it to open a close completely with out sticking. I have owned a Lee 6 cavity that did none of this stuff. Only problem with it was it cast really light. The other one I fixed by just polishing the pins. Then it worked fine. This is the only mold that ever did that. I thought I had it fixed with a really good polishing. But while opening the mold one of the pins stuck and caused the V issue.

Galling. Don't know what to say about that. People tell you to cast fast at the start to get heat in the mold. I do wait for the sprue to solidify. I don't treat it any different then the 2 cavity Lee and it works just fine. I must be doing something wrong. I did lube under the plate and pivot. I guess I have more to learn. You gave me so good advice. Thanks.