Gould Seating Depth in 45-70

[Themoose]

I'm still getting the various components together to load and shoot the Gould bullet in my Ruger No. 3... I have a question on seating depth of the bullet... If I seat it to cover the last lube groove I get COL of 2.530 when I seat the bullet to just touch the rifling I get 2.615 which leaves the top lube groove exposed... I know that there is no magic answer and that each rifle is unique, but I wondered if anyone has any experience with the seating depth of the Gould? ... I plan on testing it with loads using: 1. straight Goex Cartridge, 2. duplex loads(per Dale53's post),
3. Blackhorn 209, 4. Trailboss and 5. IMR 3031.

I would plan on using my BP lube on loads 1&2 and using regular bullet lube for smokeless in the others.

Your thoughts are genuinely appreciated,

TheMoose

[powderburnerr]

ctg oal dont mean much with a single shot .... the 2.5 is for lever guns.........Dean

[Themoose]

A clarification may help with my question:
I was asking the question about the length from a performance standpoint, most important would be the accuracy... I haven't loaded black powder since I had to sell my Sharps, but changing the seating depth also changes the space in the cartridge for powder/fillers... I'm not looking for a "screamin load"... I'll want to keep velocity down to 1200-1400 FPS for deer hunting. Most smokeless powder loads I have worked up for bottleneck type cartridges show a preference for seating close to or touching the rifling.

TheMoose

[Maven]

TM, Is the Gould bullet is a ~335gr. HP? If so, I've been loading it to 2.55" OAL (and sized to .459") for my Marlin #336. Even at that length I am able to load 70 grs. Goex/Graf's FFg in the case using a short drop tube and compression die. Thus far, accuracy has been impressive, but you have to use a BP lube and a blow tube, and damp swab the bbl. after 6 - 10 shots. However, you may need to adjust your OAL to suit the Ruger #3's tastes.

[montana_charlie]

A chamber cast may go a long way toward answering this question, and others.

In your place, I would pick a charge to try...then load with three different seating depths.
- fully seated
- touching the lands
- half of a grease groove exposed

One of those should show a 'preference', and the 'half-groove' will probably be least likely to leave lead in the throat if the case is a bit short for the chamber.

CM

[Don McDowell]

... I'm not looking for a "screamin load"... I'll want to keep velocity down to 1200-1400 FPS for deer hunting.
TheMoose


For a hunting load having all the grease grooves covered is probably a bit more important in the long run than the oal of the round.
I shoot a couple different bullets in my sharps that are probably better levergun bullets, but they work great for the offhand targets during a match.
70 grs of 2f or cartridge a .060 wad and seat the bullet to the driving band.

[218bee]

Try and see what works best in your rifle. As stated above if your gonna be carrying the loaded rounds in your pocket then probably cover grease groove so junk don't stick to it.But I would play with different depths to see what shoots best and if just doing target work you should be able to keep lube groove clean by storing upright in a box.

[Char-Gar]

Ruger No. 3 rifles in 45-70 shoot cast bullets like a house-a-fire and also kick like a mule with top end loads.

Determining seating depth is very easy with these rifle. Seat a you cast bullet long is a sized case and place it in the chamber. Then run the bullet down a little at a time until you can raise the breach block in a normal manner. You now has a round with the bullet just touching the lands and it will shoot with best accuracy. These No. 3 rifles have a "ball seat" which is a long throat and require bullets to be seated to a longer OAL for best accuracy. YOu can seat the bullet deeper in you wish, but most likely accuracy will suffer a mite. Anytime a cast bullet has to take a run before it hits the rifling, accuracy suffers.

Don't worry about the exposed lube groove, just don't carry ammo loose in your pocket when it can pick up trash in the lube. Use one of those flat MTA plastic boxes that fit in your back pocket.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
A small Zip- Lock bag will also keep the rounds lint free. One cartride per bag and there is no rattle.

[Curtis44]

Another solution with the exposed GG is to not have lube in it. The Gould has PLENTY of lube in the remaining GG's with smokeless loads. I have better results with the bullet just touching the lands in my single shots except T/C's. They MUST close freely for the locking bolt to seat properly.

[excess650]

I loaded some for my Sharps and COULD load them with the first GG exposed, but I wanted them for hunting loads. I chose to lube all the grooves since I was using BP(Swiss fffg). In a hunting situation you're not apt to be using a blowtube or wiping between shots, so develop your load accrdingly.

BTW, I was able to get anywhere from ragged hole to 1-1/2" 3 shot groups at 50 yards loaded as mentioned.

[Dale53]

themoose;
Just load up twenty rounds with the grease groove covered and twenty rounds with touching the lands. Try them - then you can tell us what works best in YOUR rifle.

Frankly, for hunting you do not need "minute of angle" accuracy. I would bet that you're bullets seated so that the grease groove is covered will shoot quite well. I sure as heck would not worry about a fraction of an inch. If you were shooting at 500 yards - 1000 yards, maybe. At deer hunting ranges, not a problem.

I have taken all of my deer with a handgun. I'll bet your rifle will do better than my fine handguns whichever way you shoot.

Sometimes we overthink (I've certainly been guilty of that myself from time to time).

Dale53

[NickSS]

I had a #3 years ago and I was not too scientific at that time with my loads (sometimes I think I fuss to much today) I just cast up some Lyman 457124 385 gr cast bullets cast from range scrap and WW sized them to .457 loaded them to the last driving band over 42 gr of 3031. Results were a 3/4 inch cloverleaf at 100 yards for three shots (That was all I could stand without flinching). That same load has shot very well in every 45-70 I have tried it in (12 different rifles to date and still rising)

[WARD O]

As a black powder only shooter in these guns, I have a similar experience, shooting my Lone Star rolling block in 50-70. I find that I can get the best accuracy and most velocity by seating the bullet out to just touch the rifling. This exposes one of the lube grooves. I use this load for hunting and just leave that lube groove empty. It still gives me two big lube grooves full. I've never shot more than three rounds hunting without the opportunity to clean and have never suffered for it.

For fun shooting this same load can be used with blow tube or wiping. I also reduce the powder slightly and seat the bullet deeper to cover the third groove and that shoots almost as well. Then I don't have to worry about lack of lube.

Try your rifle with both and see what it likes - you may find that one way or the other is superior.

Ward

[giz189]

Ward O, how do you use the Gould Boolit in your 50-70? Mine is only 459 diameter.