Lyman 450 vs 4500???

[Dave Bulla]

Okay,

I'm a new guy and have only cast once and that was on another castboolit member's equipment. He had the 4500 lubesizer and it seemed to work well. I was looking around at prices and found them anywhere from $140.19 at Midway to over $215 direct from Lyman and yes, the prices are for units with heaters. I saw some without heaters for around the same price as the low price above. The lowest price I found for one with a heater was $138.

Now, my questions are.....

Do I need the 4500 with the heater or would a plain old 450 work just as well?

What is the difference between a 450 with no heater and a 4500 with no heater?

If I make some Felix lube, does it need to be heated?

Is there any real benefit to a sizer with a heater?

I've got a .366 mold on order from a current group buy going on (NOE 9.3 group buy) but I don't see lyman having any .366 sizers or top punches listed.

Well, I've got more questions but I'll leave it at that for now.:-?

[osage]

Dave, I picked up my 450 on ebay for a lot less then new price.
A trouble light can be used to heat the sizer. Some mount the sizer on a metal plate that extends far enough past the back of the sizer to set an iron on. Having the ability to heat the sizer would be a plus, depending on where your working out of or the type of lube you use.
I don't recall if the 4500 internals are different then the 450 but the handle is.
I have not used Felix lube so I'm sure someone else will answer that.
You can get custom sizer dies or Lee style from Buckshot.

[Dave Bulla]

Thanks for the info osage.

What or who is "Buckshot"?

By the way, since your handle is osage, I gotta ask if you're into building selfbows. I've built a couple and go to mojam every year. Just wonderin'.

[StarMetal]

I have the Lyman 450. I haven't had any problems with it and I feel they were made better then the later 4500's. I think looking for one on Ebay is a good idea.

[RayinNH]

What or who is "Buckshot"?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?u=67

As to your question about lube heaters, yes they are beneficial. You can find lubes that don't need heat. However you will experiment and need heat at some point. Lubes that don't need heat in summer occasionally do in winter. As already mentioned though, many ways to improvise...Ray

[lmcollins]

There is a difference between the early and late 450's. The late 450's have the same handle and compound linkage that the new 4500 has. The old 450's are often broken. The new ones are stronger. Lyman will sell you an upgrade kit. I would only buy an old 450 at a very low price

The new 4500 machine is the late 450 machine with the sole plate (where it is bolted to the bench) made thick enough for a hole to be drilled into it to hold a carttridge heater. If you want to eventually heat your sizer, and have the late 450, you need to get a more expensive heater: the type that you have to use under a RCBS machine.

As the guys say, you can always gin-up something, but if your starting why start in the hole if you don't have to.

[osage]

Dave, Nice to see you are getting questions answered.
Buckshot is a member that does custom sizer work ect... You can PM him with questions.

As for my handle I enjoy archery and bowhunting. I have not moved from modern yet but the Traditional Bowyer's Bibles made for good reading. Firearms started with casting roundballs then to reloading condom bullets now back to boolits.

[mtgrs737]

I have three 450's each with a different lube in it. Many lubes do not require a heater, however if you do use a hard lube you will need a heater. I have a Lyman plate style heater attached to one of my Lyman 450s that has Lar's excellent Carnuba Red in it. Some here have had trouble with the flat iron handle of the 450 units, I have not. For them the 4500 with it's redesigned handle is the answer and I understand that Lyman will sell you a retofit kit for their 450 unit. The other issue is with the lyman heater, they do not incorporate a contol for the amount of heat they generate and mine will over heat the lube in time. I have made a heater control using a light dimmer switch that works great and costs little out of parts from the hardware store. Keep an eye on ebay for a 450, one sold a few days ago for a bit over $50 plus shipping. They show up here often in the WTS area for reasonable prices. Good luck!

[cheese1566]

I have an old Lyman 450 with the bike handle. Works great with the alum block heater base I made to use the Lyman cartridge heater for the 4500. Works great. Nice thing is I can swap the heater in my other two lubers.
I like to use Lar's Red Carn in all three and it requires a heater.

http://cheese1566gunsandstuff.shutterfly.com/130#131

I thought at first of upgrading to the new style handle linkage. But then thought I'll see how far the original takes me. When the old ones break and I cannot repair, maybe I'll upgrade and convert. I have another old bike handle 450 coming my way this week.

I do pistol rounds so my sizing requirements are light and I wait to proper heating before commencing. I have a beefy RCBS LAM with a stout handle for anything else.

I would not hesitate to buy a decent 450 with a bike handle.

Maybe someday I'll sell my three Lymans and get a Star...[smilie=p:

[Dave Bulla]

Okay, now we're getting somewhere!!! Thanks for the comments guys.

I work in industrial maintenance and frequently throw away scrap slabs of steel that would be easy to turn into a base with a hole for a heater. I like that idea! Thanks Cheese!

Time to start cruising for an old 450....

I'm betting I could also make my own handle that would be absolutely bullet proof.

[Bret4207]

Or you could get an RCBS and have a better sizer to start with for about the same money.

Just my 2 cents- I own an RCBS, 450 and 45.

[Dave Bulla]

Okay....

Bret, you've got my attention. I've got RCBS reloading equipment and have always been very happy with their quality. I think I'll modify the title of this thread and ask also for opinions on the RCBS sizers.

Can you give me some specifics of why you like them better?

[cheese1566]

I prefer my old RCBS sizer over my Lyman too. But side-by-side they are very similar.

I think I just like the way the handle and linkage feels a little beefier.

My RCBS luber is the older LAM and not the #2. It uses the ratchet style wrench for the piston screw. Unsure if I like the new style rotating handle on the new ones- but I have not used the new one to compare.

[Bret4207]

Ditto what Cheese said. They just seem to work better for me. I hahve the ratchet model too, not that goofy toggle. Somebody here had a pictorial on how to change that over.

I actually prefer my 45 to my 450 in the Lyman line.

[Cactus Farmer]

I prefer the Old Lyman 45s also. Have 4 Model 45s.........have 0 other types......tried 'em and went back to the old stand by. Base plates and an iron work well even with the antique tools.

[Dave Bulla]

Okay.....

Been looking around on line and noticed in one of the adds that it said the RCBS used "hollow lube sticks".........?????? HUH????

Would that mean that I'd have to buy commercial lube?

Or is there a way to make your own hollow lube sticks?


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p.s. Thanks for all the answers so far.

[cheese1566]

Check out Lar's lubes at the bottom of the page. Good stuff and you can hardly make it for what he charges.

I like his Red Carnauba for everything (I like hard lubes for the less stickiness and easier storage). Needs a heater.

Almost all of the sizers take hollow stick style lubes- Lyman 45, 450, 4500, RCBS...and I think Saeco and Stars.

Plus of course if you make your own, you can always pour it direct while soft and flowing. There are several posts on making hoolow lube sticks and how to make the molds out of PVC pipe.

[excess650]

Don't the new 4500s have a solid base like the newer RCBS, or am I completely mistaken? My problem with my old, grey 450 is that the base with pressure screw in it leaks.

I much prefer my Saeco to the others, but the lack of variety in sizer dies and top punches, not to mention $ has kept me from switching completely. BTW, the Saeco pressure screw is threaded into the top cap which threads around the lube resevoir.

The Saeco takes solid or hollow sticks as opposed to hollow sticks used in the Lyman or RCBS. The reason for the hollow stick is to slide down over the pressure screw that extends up from the bottom. (info for the OP)

My solution for the "heater" before they were commonly available was to drill a slightly oversize hole in the web on the rear of the LS, and insert the tip of a 35W soldering iron to provide the heat.

[Brithunter]

Ok chapsIi have an old Lyman 450 (split iron handles) that I have never used as yet with no dies in it that I am aware of. Brought it some years ago (maybe 6 or 7) with the intention of casting even back then.

Then just over 5 years ago I was given for lending some assistance a Saeco lubesizer again I know nowt about it and have never used it. The question which would be the better one to get set up and working?

[Dave Bulla]

Brithunter,

As you probably know from my post at the beginning of this thread I'm also new to this game. Heck, I haven't really got started yet even...

But, I have been reading a lot and researching what I'm able to find info on and the jist of what I've read is that the Star sizer is considered one of the very best made but that the dies and top punches are quite a bit less common. Lyman seems to be far and away the most common and has the most parts floating around in places like ebay and other online second hand sale places. RCBS seems to be a bit better quality than the Lyman though the bodies look nearly identical to me in the pictures. The RCBS looks like it has a beefier linkage and I think this is a big part of what makes people say it's better than the Lyman. Both of them use the same dies and top punches which is a considerable advantage compared to the Star.

I'd say if you have a little money to spend on dies, and you will be casting fairly common calibers, the Star would certainly be the better sizer but if you are on a serious budget, you could sell the Star and use the money to buy a nice selection of dies for the Lyman. Personally, I'd keep them both until I got going good and learned enough to make up my own mind instead of relying on some goofball like me giving advice with no real experiece....:kidding:

[Brithunter]

Hmmm well I cannot afford to buy another lubesizer so the star is out. I will have to pull the Saeco one out on the cupboard and have a look at it an compare it to the Lyman. See if it has any dies in in and what size they are also top punch.

There is a group that cast thier own at the gunclub so I will have to go and have a word with them .................... you never know might learn something may even be able to pick up something.