Felix Lube conversion question?

[Changeling]

1. When making Felix Lube, the recipe calls for a piece of bee wax 3.5"L X 3.5"W X 1/2 "deep.

The wax I have is not in a form that makes this practical. Has anyone "weighed" a piece of wax with these dimensions and can tell me in oz the weight, or in pearls (terminology?) the volume, such as teaspoons, Tablespoons, whatever.

I really believe this is a problem for a lot more people than say so!


2. Is it more cost efficient to raise the hardness with more bee wax or carnuba, on a completed recipe?

I ask this because making a few different recipes gets expensive, QUICK. So, before I get started I plan on having everything on hand so I can make the different recipes without delay, therefore all the questions, hope you all understand.

[sqlbullet]

Don't quote me, but I think that block would weight about 5-6 oz. I used basically a triple recipe when I made mine, primarily since i got my beeswax in a 1lb brick.

The soap was the hard one for me. After grating, do you compact the soap like you would brown sugar when measuring, or leave it fluffy? In the end, I just added some:-)

Oh, and if you are making a large batch, have some empty volume in you pot. The Ivory will foam when you add it.

[Big Country]

I used approx. 1/2 pound when I made mine.

[Mk42gunner]

Like Big Country I used 1/2 pound of beeswax.

For the soap, I used a bar that had been hidden in the cabinet for a few years,soit was nice and dry. I did not grate it; I scraped it with a kinife blade so powder rolled off the bar. The powdered soap wasn't too hard to incorporate in the mix.


Robert

[wiljen]

7oz is roughly what the recipe calls for. the more soap you add the harder the lube gets and the higher the melting point will be.

[lead4me]

7oz is roughly what the recipe calls for. the more soap you add the harder the lube gets and the higher the melting point will be.

7 ounces of Beeswax? I think it ends up being more like 9/10 for a single batch of Felix lube. I was in the group buy you ran Wiljen & unless my postal scale I just bought is off when I made a double batch of this yesterday my total beeswax was 1lb 3 ounces. My beeswax came from Randy Rat & as anyone knows who has gotten
their wax from him it comes in 1" think blocks so it is easy to measure out. I used a scale and cut a piece of wax 7X7x1.
Although, even though new ( the scale) all the 1lb bags I got from you weighed 14.5 ounces on the scale. Please don't read into that last statement anything other than I'm using it as a comparison, I remembered reading this post and decided to weight my wax being it was "Heavier" than what some had posted, I weighed my shipment from you.
Again no worries here on the group buy & the double batch I made ( my first batch of Felix lube ) turned out excellent, much sticker than my home made stuff & also came out much more consistent (no Layers) when cooled. And the hardness seems just about right.
I pan lube and cant wait to try this out on a Mihec H&G 503 that should be here any day now!

[geargnasher]

1. When making Felix Lube, the recipe calls for a piece of bee wax 3.5"L X 3.5"W X 1/2 "deep. Actually, it's 3.5"x3.5"x1", that's 12.25 cubic inches, or just under seven ounces of beeswax.

The wax I have is not in a form that makes this practical. Has anyone "weighed" a piece of wax with these dimensions and can tell me in oz the weight, or in pearls (terminology?) the volume, such as teaspoons, Tablespoons, whatever. Half a pound is close enough. If anyone has a scales and wants to verify them, use sticks of butter!

I really believe this is a problem for a lot more people than say so! Most men have trouble with detailed measurements, especially kitchen measurements, get your SWMBO to help you, it works for me!


2. Is it more cost efficient to raise the hardness with more bee wax or carnuba, on a completed recipe? It depends on how much your ingredients cost. Beeswax is usually cheap, but it takes much less carnauba to stiffen-up lube.

I ask this because making a few different recipes gets expensive, QUICK. So, before I get started I plan on having everything on hand so I can make the different recipes without delay, therefore all the questions, hope you all understand.

Try the recipe per the ORIGINAL instructions by Felix, or EXACTLY like Wiljen's version with stearic acid and carnauba. If you stick with those and don't monkey with them too much, you may find that you won't need to make and test a bunch of different batches. That part has been done by hundreds of people before you!

Make a batch, and if it doesn't suit you for some reason, maybe we can offer suggestions that will help you modify it without wasting ingredients.


Gear

[sqlbullet]

Most men have trouble with detailed measurements, especially kitchen measurements, get your SWMBO to help you, it works for me!

My wife will readily agree that I am far and away the better cook in our house. And to the OP's point, most professionally trained cooks prefer ingredient lists by weight, not volume, especially for dry ingredients. This is because dry ingredients readily compact, meaning a volume measure can vary widely.

Case in point, the pound cake, so named because it calls for a pound of each major ingredient: fat(usually butter), sugar, eggs and flour. Cake depends heavily on the correct proportions of flour and sugar. This recipe is hugely popular because it is easily and accurately reproduced.

Perhaps one of the sages here who has long experience making this recipe, like grandma and her bread recipe, can measure out their ingredients by volume and known compaction, then weigh them and post the results? This will make the recipe far more reproducible for the rest of us.

[wiljen]

In fairness, my version should still be credited to Felix as he and I had several discussions regarding the substitution of stearic acid for Ivory soap and the change in cooking times etc. I am an experimenter by nature, but Felix deserves the credit for the academic leg work.

[felix]

Academic only, Will! You and others are taking it to the next level. ... felix

[Changeling]

"Try the recipe per the ORIGINAL instructions by Felix, or EXACTLY like Wiljen's version with stearic acid and carnauba. If you stick with those and don't monkey with them too much, you may find that you won't need to make and test a bunch of different batches. That part has been done by hundreds of people before you!

Make a batch, and if it doesn't suit you for some reason, maybe we can offer suggestions that will help you modify it without wasting ingredients."

That make sense also. If it needs hardening after the batch is made it should be simple at that time to do it. Thanks Gear, sometimes someone looking at the whole picture sees things differently, you are right.

[geargnasher]

My wife will readily agree that I am far and away the better cook in our house. And to the OP's point, most professionally trained cooks prefer ingredient lists by weight, not volume, especially for dry ingredients. This is because dry ingredients readily compact, meaning a volume measure can vary widely.

Case in point, the pound cake, so named because it calls for a pound of each major ingredient: fat(usually butter), sugar, eggs and flour. Cake depends heavily on the correct proportions of flour and sugar. This recipe is hugely popular because it is easily and accurately reproduced.

Perhaps one of the sages here who has long experience making this recipe, like grandma and her bread recipe, can measure out their ingredients by volume and known compaction, then weigh them and post the results? This will make the recipe far more reproducible for the rest of us.

Ok, here's what you do. It ain't rocket science.

1). Measure, by weight, seven ounces of beeswax. You can do this on a food scales, postage scales, or an ounce at a time on your powder scales. Most beeswax is hard enough to score and break into chunks, or you can shave it to make up small amounts. Due to the nature of the recipe, I haven't checked liquid volume very closely of the melted beeswax, but you can convert 12.25 cubic inches to fluid ounces if you want, correcting for the specific gravity of beeswax.
2) Everything else is measured by volume in either Tablespoons or Teaspoons, level full with liquids, "heaping" in (self explanatory), the case of the dry, grated soap, or struck level in the case of the stearic acid from the recent WilJen group buy.
3) Here's the "Idiot Directive" of the day: Use real, marked, kitchen measuring tools for Tea- and Tablespoons, I know of at least one person who thought that meant the long-handled, skinny spoons using for stirring iced tea!

Gear

[wiljen]

Here is as complete and documented a procedure for FWFL as I can put together. It is the version I have made and used as well as letting others try and all have reported good success. Hopefully it will work for you as well


2 Tablespoons Mineral Oil (Unscented Baby oil)
1 Tablespoon Castor Oil
¾ Tablespoon Stearic Acid
1 Tablespoon Carnauba wax
1 Tablespoon Anhydrous Lanolin
3 ½ x 3 ½ x 1 inch block of Beeswax

3/4 Tablespoon = 2 1/4 Teaspoons.
3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 1" beeswax weighs 7 oz

I use a candy thermometer to monitor temp. A mix of Heavy mineral oil laxative and unscented baby oil (light mineral oil) will give off a little smoke beginning about 250 as it cooks off the masking scent, this is acceptable.

Oil should come out a golden color and should not separate upon standing overnight.

I use 1 bottle of mineral oil (16oz) to 2 bottles of Castor Oil (4oz) and mix and cook this in advance as it can be better tested for full polymerization without adding other ingredients and stores well for making small batches later.


Heat mineral oil to the point it begins to smoke then slightly lower the temperature (Should be very near 300F).

Add Castor oil and stir continuously for 1 hour. (Some forms call for 30 minutes, 1 hour at 300 guarantees full polymerization of oils).

(if pre-cooking the oils, and starting from this point, heat oils only to 190F before proceeding)


Slowly add Stearic acid to the mix and stir to dissolve into oils.

Allow mix to cool to roughly 220 before proceeding

Add the Carnauba wax and stir until dissolved.

allow to cool to approx 165F before adding next

Add the beeswax to the mixture and mix well once liquefied.

Remove from heat or lower heat and allow time for mixture to cool, but not set, before adding lanolin.

Adding the lanolin at full heat will scorch it and ruin the lube.

The lube can now be poured into molds or allowed to set as a block and then microwaved (medium heat) to re-melt it for pouring in your lube-sizer.

[Changeling]

They are some pretty through instructions. One question, since you are heating the oil to near 300F that would eliminate using a "Crock Pot" wouldn't it?

Trust me I'm not trying to be "anal" about this, just thorough.

[wiljen]

I think it probably does eliminate the crock pot for polymerizing the oils. I use a hotplate and a pressure cooker.

[Changeling]

I think it probably does eliminate the crock pot for polymerizing the oils. I use a hotplate and a pressure cooker.

Chef wiljen, it shall be done. Thanks for taking the time reproducing the recipe. I for one am grateful.

[ghh3rd]

Here's how I figured it:

Based on based on beeswax weighing 60 lbs/cu ft (found at http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra2.html), 3 1/2 x 3 1/2 x 1" beeswax weighs 6.8 oz. This has worked well for me so far.

By the way, if you use a recipe that calls for 3/4 Tablespoon, that is 2 1/4 Teaspoons.

[geargnasher]

Thanks, Wiljen, I think that's about as simple as it gets.

Gear

[Doby45]

Stirring for an hour, constantly?

[geargnasher]

Stirring for an hour, constantly?

You gots it. Don't shortcut, if you do you'll find out why.

Gear

[Changeling]

Wiljen/Gear I sure hate beating this horse again but better now than later. If not me someone else will ask.

The below was with the help of pharmacists at WM, RA, Safeway, Giant .

1. 1 "tablespoon" of carnauba sounds like a lot is this correct, just want to double check?

2. In my area the only Castor oil I was able to locate was in WM and was listed as a Laxative, is this what you mean?

3. Lanolin (Anhydrous)- Not in Frederick Maryland. I could only find some type of lanolin for women with sore "nipples (nursing mothers)" . Unless there is a fetish on the website, I doubt this was it, LOL.

Am I going to have to order this stuff from On Line?

[wiljen]

1. 1 "tablespoon" of carnauba sounds like a lot is this correct, just want to double check?

You might be able to use less, but I've always had good results with 1 TBSP per batch.

2. In my area the only Castor oil I was able to locate was in WM and was listed as a Laxative, is this what you mean?

Yep, that be the stuff, I buy mineral oil and Castor oil from the laxative isle at the grocery.


3. Lanolin (Anhydrous)- Not in Frederick Maryland. I could only find some type of lanolin for women with sore "nipples (nursing mothers)" . Unless there is a fetish on the website, I doubt this was it, LOL.

That is the stuff, walmart has it in the baby section or drug stores carry it and yep it is nipple cream.

[Doby45]

You gots it. Don't shortcut, if you do you'll find out why.

Gear

Like you, I think I will end up doing a large batch so that I don't have to redo the stirring too often.

[geargnasher]

Like you, I think I will end up doing a large batch so that I don't have to redo the stirring too often.

Doby, the other thing to remember is keep the temperature correct and constant while cooking, use a candy thermometer (it has the correct temp range and a neat clip to hold it on the lip of a saucepan). As Felix and others have said many times in other threads, the polymerization process is a function of heat and time. More time, less heat, more heat, less time, but there are limits. 300* for an hour is cheap insurance against liquid oils seeping into the powder of your loaded ammo. I had a batch "sweat" oil out past the crimp once after a couple of months, went back and looked at my notes and figured that recipe had too much castor (50/50 with the mineral) and either it needed more than 30 minutes at 290* or more soap. Fortunately, it was a small batch.

As an aside, I no longer go by the "more is better" approach to the castor oil, I was looking for something a little slicker, but groups sure open up when the barrel gets hot with too much castor. Just follow the recipe and instructions, it works!

Gear

[wiljen]

I usually polymerize at least 2qt worth of mineral oil at a time to cut down on the amount of stirring involved. Gear had it right though, if you just heat the oils to 300 and don't stir they will separate immediately upon cooling. The safest bet is to do the cooking then put it in a glass Jar overnight. If you can see separation the next day, recook em. If you can't, you are good to proceed.

[Changeling]

I usually polymerize at least 2qt worth of mineral oil at a time to cut down on the amount of stirring involved. Gear had it right though, if you just heat the oils to 300 and don't stir they will separate immediately upon cooling. The safest bet is to do the cooking then put it in a glass Jar overnight. If you can see separation the next day, recook em. If you can't, you are good to proceed.

I had planned on making a large batch but now I'm just going to make a regular batch because of the cost.
I am also making two other Lubes. Costs rising fast.

I found the Mineral Oil (16 0z) and the Castor ( now comes in 6 FL OZ bottles), about $4.00 for the 2.

They were out of the Lanolin but it said $10.** for 2 oz. That seems very expensive so I'm going to look around before getting it. I'm posting the prices so people can judge what they want to do.

[geargnasher]

I had planned on making a large batch but now I'm just going to make a regular batch because of the cost.
I am also making two other Lubes. Costs rising fast.

I found the Mineral Oil (16 0z) and the Castor ( now comes in 6 FL OZ bottles), about $4.00 for the 2, need another bottle of Castor if one wants to get to 8 oz for a 3X batch size.
They were out of the Lanolin but it said $10.** for 2 oz. That seems very expensive so I'm going to look around before getting it. I'm posting the prices so people can judge what they want to do.

Changeling, I think you have your math crossed-up. IIRC two tablespoons to the fluid ounce, so with a six-ounce bottle of Wal-Mart Laxative castor is enough to make 12 standard batches of Felix Lube. You might add the whole bottle to 12 ounces of mineral oil and cook that up.

As for the nipple cream, CVS pharmacy has a house brand just like Lansinoh brand for about eight bucks, but it's a rip-off either way IMO. WilJen might have some extra from the group buy left, even if you only get half a pound it'll only cost five bucks for shipping plus a very reasonable amount for the lanolin itself.

Gear

[Changeling]

Changeling, I think you have your math crossed-up. IIRC two tablespoons to the fluid ounce, so with a six-ounce bottle of Wal-Mart Laxative castor is enough to make 12 standard batches of Felix Lube. You might add the whole bottle to 12 ounces of mineral oil and cook that up.

As for the nipple cream, CVS pharmacy has a house brand just like Lansinoh brand for about eight bucks, but it's a rip-off either way IMO. WilJen might have some extra from the group buy left, even if you only get half a pound it'll only cost five bucks for shipping plus a very reasonable amount for the lanolin itself.

Gear


Mineral oil comes in 16 oz bottle, = 32 Tablespoons
Castor oil comes in 6 oz bottle, = 12 Tablespoons.

Recipe ratio is 2 to 1, Mineral oil to Castor.

So, to make a big batch of oil I would 24 tablespoons or 12 oz of mineral oil.
12 tablespoons or 6 oz of Castor oil.

I should have said, to make 1 big batch of oil as Wiljen does using 12 oz of the mineral and "6 oz" of Castor oil. This actually means my math was as screwed up as it could be.

Excellent catch Gear, see, you are the "master", thanks for not letting me and others possibly/probably screw up.

[geargnasher]

Just don't get hung up on amounts. Like I said, 6 oz castor oil is enough for 12 batches of Felix lube. You only need one tablespoon of castor oil for a half-pound batch, and that will yield about six hollow sticks of lube.

If you only cooked up 18 total ounces of oil (six castor, 12 mineral) that might be a lifetime supply of base oil, so no need to buy any more castor oil for a big batch. If you have four ounces of mineral oil leftover, you'll use it somewhere.

Gear

[Changeling]

Just don't get hung up on amounts. Like I said, 6 oz castor oil is enough for 12 batches of Felix lube. You only need one tablespoon of castor oil for a half-pound batch, and that will yield about six hollow sticks of lube.

If you only cooked up 18 total ounces of oil (six castor, 12 mineral) that might be a lifetime supply of base oil, so no need to buy any more castor oil for a big batch. If you have four ounces of mineral oil leftover, you'll use it somewhere.

Gear

I thought of that and was just going to make a small batch of oil, but I received some emails from a few people that were very hesitant about making the oil, worried about trying it. So, I figured I would just make a bigger batch and offer it to those that are a little worried about making just the oil. After that wreck I was in screwed up my back that bad I swore nothing would ever scare me again!
If you have to stir for an hour it might as well be worthwhile. I realize I don't need to get any more Castor oil, NOW that you checked my math.

Funny thing, I can remember taking that C%*# when I was little, and swore when I grew up I'd never take it again, I guess the old adage "Never Say Never" still has it's place, LOL.:wink:

[geargnasher]

Just imagine the effects of castor+mineral oil together!

Gear

[Changeling]

I would rather not, LOL.


Gear, have you ever used Yaly (spelling) hard dye in coloring FELIX's lube? If so, how much do you add per regular recipe and at what point in the process without compromising his recipe (BRIGHT YELLOW).

[geargnasher]

I don't dye my lubes, waste of money IMO. If you want yellow, use yellow beeswax and it will be. I think 357Maximum has the straight dope on coloring lubes, you might want to ask him for some tips (some colors like green don't work well, for example).

Gear