Improving accuracy

[deerslayer]

OK I will be the first to admit that I am a poor shot. i do good with my handgun out to about fifteen yards but at 25 I can't seem to find the paper. I feel that it is probably got alot more to do with Nate then the gun (a full size glock .45 auto).

I have read threads here touting superb accuracy with handguns and I do not doubt that most are able to do what they say. I would just like some input on the ways I might improve my skills. I would say even some repeating of the basics may be in order as if i continue to do the fundementals wrong then I may be developing some real bad habits.

Please don't beat me up to bad on handgun selection the price was right and it is what I have for now. Although I would love to have a Kimber or colt or good springfield the glock will have to work for now.

Thanks Nate

[MtGun44]

Trigger pull is a major big deal for top accy. Personally, the Glock trigger is the biggest reason
that I will never own one. It sure makes your task a lot harder. My 1911s all have about
3 1/2 lb trigger pull or better.

Study the standard manuals on pistol shooting. A big issue is breath control - a critical point is
that the human eye is ultra sensitive to blood oxygen levels. If you have the slightest urge to
breathe just give up on that shot, release the trigger and take several (3 at least) deep breaths
and start the sight alignment and trigger pull again. Also, pulling the trigger progressively so
that you add a slight bit of pressure to the trigger as the front sight is aligned perfectly -
freezing the pressure as it INEVITABLY drifts off of the target, then adding just a touch more
pressure as the sights are properly aligned again. You should be adding no more than about
1/5th of the pressure it takes to break the trigger each cycle, somewhere near that. Keep going
until the shot breaks, or you run out of breath, release the trigger and start over.

Many people try to "catch" the sights as they pass the target, almost guarenteeing a jerked
trigger. This can be done in hunting with a long gun to some extent, especially on closer shots,
but is very difficult. Not recommended until you totally master the regular trigger pull.

Try buying an airsoft pistol and working on your trigger pull and aiming. Cost is zero with a
spring gun and sticky target, a few minutes at a time are about all you can sustain concentration
for. Dry fire is a VERY powerful tool, too. I would suggest that if you do a true 3 minutes
of dry fire practice every night for a week you will see MARKED improvement.

Sad to say, it is mostly the standard stuff - breath control, grip, sight alignment and trigger
squeeze. I'd say about 65% trigger squeeze, 20% sight alignment, 10% breathing and
5% grip consistency. This is based on which needs the most work, any one can totally wreck
a shot. Good luck.

Start with some dry fire. You can immediately see your trigger jerk and work on 'wearing a
groove' with the correct technique.

PS. Use a rest or reclining position for ammo testing, too. The stand up stuff is for fun, competition
or just to learn how. My ammo testing groups are all rested groups. I can approach it with
standing, but it is FAR harder and the concentration and effort is too much for ammo testing.

Bill

[Mk42gunner]

Focus on the front sight. The target can be fuzzy.

Sight alignment. It is better to have the sights properly aligned and slightly off target, than to misalign the sights.

Grip. Hold the pistol firmly, Glocks don't normally like weak holding; but you don't need to squeeze it like you are trying to strangle a weasel either. If you can (the fullsize Glocks are rather large), postion the pistol so the barrel is in line with your forearm.

Trigger realease. Press the trigger straight back.

Practice, dryfire is good.

Don't try to anticipate the shot, that is an easy way to hit the ground fifteen yards in front of the firing line.

Good luck,

Robert

[S.R.Custom]

For me, my most significant accuracy gains came when I started weight training and I increased my hand strength. It's much easier to get your hands to do what you want when they're capable of more.

Related to that is grip consistency. A handgun's point of impact can vary wildly with just subtle changes in your grip. Practice getting the exact same grip and grip tension with every shot. If the gun moves in your hand with recoil --even just a little bit-- readjust your grip.

Lastly, know the feel and heft of your weapon thoroughly. I dunno how the constraints of having others around in the household are for you, but during downtime here at El Rancho Custom, I practice my grip while watching TV or reading. I don't even dry fire. Just practicing my grip with the gun in my lap helps develop feel and muscle memory. A magazine full of dummy rounds helps with the realistic feel of the gun.

When you are able to combine all three of these factors, it becomes much easier to do all those things the others here prescribe. (I could quibble a bit with some of the points here, but so far, it's just about all good advice.)

And don't think you've handicapped yourself with a Glock. That gun is a fine service weapon, and capable of every bit the accuracy of a Beretta, Sig, High-Power, etc. The trick to attaining that accuracy is intimate knowledge and feel for the weapon, and that comes through practice. Even if it's just practicing your hold while watching NCIS re-runs.

[44man]

All good information and the gun is good enough to hit some targets to 100 yards, not group shooting of course but it can clang steel down there.
Two very important things mentioned above to work on. Never make the gun shoot as you wiggle past the bullseye and never jerk the trigger thinking about recoil. The first usually goes over the target and the second makes tater furrows in front of you.
About breathing, I rarely hold my breath while attaining a sight picture, just breath slowly and normally. This cuts down on the shakes and blurred vision. Just before trigger break, then hold it.
I shot IHMSA from Creedmore and always kept breathing until the last second.
Once you get the hang of it, it is easy. Holding your breath for a long time with a hard trigger makes things worse at the time the gun is ready to go off. You just need to learn your trigger and even a hard, creepy trigger can be shot well.
Use the pad of your finger and pull straight back, you would be surprised how many come here to shoot and stick their whole finger in the guard. The inside of your finger should not be touching the side of the gun.
Point both thumbs at the target and use a slight push forward with the right hand and a slight pull back with the left.
The most important thing is to ignore gun wiggle as long as the sight picture is around the center, just keep adding pressure. You should never know when the gun will go off and even the speed steel shooters remain in more control then you think. That is from tons of practice.
Very few can hold still while aiming, those that can shoot thousands of rounds a day and have developed nerve and muscle strength control.
I would laugh at myself trying to shoot off hand with a 10" barrel. The barrel would slowly dip down and I had to keep raising it. Now I have no problems but a light, short gun will wiggle like crazy because I got used to heavy revolvers.
Every time you shoot a shot, stop and determine what you did wrong and correct it right away. Work on that for the next shots.
A few shots done right is better then 100 done wrong because you don't want the bad habits to become ingrained, they get harder and harder to recognize and cure. Shoot one shot and sit down to think about it before shooting another. After you remove each mistake, one at a time, you can increase speed.
Don't get discouraged. Pick through these answers from the guys and ask yourself which ones you were doing wrong, write them down if you must and set the list on the shooting bench.

[Forester]

Good advice from those above but I'll chime in.

I heard Brian Enos say once to "let your eyes break the trigger" meaning quit thinking about the trigger so much and let your eyes tell your brain when the shot should go off...your brain knows how to make that happen. Granted this is easier with a clean light trigger but it still applies to your Glock.

That sounds a little esoteric but if you have a good clear focus on the front sight, and just let the shot happen when your eyes say it can I bet you fill find much smaller groups downrange.

Other points:

Grip(assuming right handed, if not flip everything)-start out 60/40 with more pressure from your non trigger hand. If you are shooting right consistently then use a little more right hand and a little less left. Also, the grip must be THE SAME every time or you are herding cats here.

Trigger-make sure your trigger finger is not riding the frame. It should only touch the trigger.

Eyes-are you blinking? if you can't see muzzle flash you are probably blinking. If you blink then your eyes were closed when you needed them most. Force your eyes to stay open for a few shots just to learn what it feels like. I bet 90% of the world blinks when they pull the trigger but would swear they don't. They only way to prove it to them is closeup video of their face when they shoot. You can check yourself though, all but the lightest loads will show some muzzle flash and you should be seeing it.

[44man]

More good info and I like the herding cats thing! :bigsmyl2:
Brian is right and that is what happens to me when hunting. I never remember pulling the trigger, the gun goes off when the sights are correct, I have no control at all even with the bow. I have never been able to hold on a deer and squeeze because the shot is gone before I even feel the trigger.
But this does not happen when shooting targets off hand, the brain gets in the way! :violin:I have to think all shots through. I fail a lot.
I only have total control from a rest. No control when hunting.
Does anyone else see this? Might be why I almost never miss a deer unless I use the wrong bow sight or figure drop wrong.

[deerslayer]

Well my finger is definately all the way in the trigger I have not been using the pads. Also I do not normally see the muzzle flash so I will work on that. I am a good size fella and I think I have a pretty good grip on it and I have watched a few videos on youtube to have the correct grip. Just tried using the pad of my finger on a dryfire that feels awkward I will have to work on it. I should probably work some more with a rest to verify the gun and ammo but right now I still think I am much more inaccurate than the gun or load.

I am not sure what the trigger pull is but it is much easier than my Glock .40 was. I bought the gun used and maybe it had a trigger job. It has a nice clean predictable break to it. Although I played with a friends Kimber with a breath on it trigger and that was neat but unless I was shooting competition /target only with it, it would scare me atleast for carrying.

[BABore]

My brain goes full-auto on critters as well. It's usually only have a vauge recollection of the sights, dot, or CH pasted on the appropriate spot, a distant bang, and feet in the air. I have and do shoot quite a few deer in the head to save meat and cleaning duties. With these, it more like bench work and watching the head motions and feeding routine. Sometimes they get a whistle first so they lock on me for a second too long.

I still am learning to shoot a handgun well and will probably never stop learning. From the bench I try different rests and bag placements for each gun. How I hold my hands, grip tension and the like. Even where each finger lies on the gun. Every gun is different as is how every person holds it. Consistency is everything. Burn up a few boxes and find out what works for your gun, then stay with it. Never let the trigger finger contact the side of the gun with only the tip applying straight-back pressure.

[ole 5 hole group]

Today they may say “let your eyes break the trigger” but way back when we called it “timing” and good timing only comes from a lot of practice – both dry firing & live firing. Perfect sight alignment will get you on target. Take a look see here and maybe something in there will assist you.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-23-35/chap2.htm

[Echo]

Lots of good info above, to which I can add only a little:

Trigger control - finger pad, not joint (as mentioned above).

Breath control - a couple of deep breaths, then hold until recoil, or until wobble starts to indicate oxygen depletion or muscle fatigue, requiring re-start. The head gets about 30% of the oxygen the lungs bring in, and the eyes get about 30% of that (or so I have been told), so breathing is important (NO S**T!) as is breath control. When you start running low on O2, your eyes start losing the ability to focus as well as wobbling increases.

Front sight - focus there. As above, sight alignment is more important than sight picture. Every shooter wobbles, more or less, and practice will reduce that wobble. Don't worry about the wobble - maintain your best sight alignment and let the shot break.

Grip - should be fore-&-aft. Finger tips should NOT contact gun grip, and trigger finger should only contact trigger (as mentioned above). And try to squeeze the magazine out of the gun. If that causes wobble, you need more conditioning. Appropriate only for one-hand shooting.

And dry-fire. It improves trigger control. The gun shouldn't move when the hammer drops. When the trigger-pull gets organized on the spinal cord, you just have to send the command 'Start the Pull', and the spinal cord will take care of the rest. But that does take a lot of practice.

And finally - When I say focus on the front sight, I mean Put All Your Concentration On The Front Sight! Be Intense! You will be aware of the surroundings, but should not attend to them (unless safety related, and your brain should alert you to those). Can't stress that enough.

[oso]

Yes, and dry fire a bit more. I've had more than a few dry fire targets about the house and garage, and you can use them over and over again.

[44man]

Try shooting a .475 or one of the .500's off hand without moving! :bigsmyl2::veryconfu[smilie=s::shock:

[archmaker]

Dry fire and practice.

And when I say practice I mean spend time practicing shooting, not actually shooting. Mental drills are important, are you concentrating on the front sight, can you pull the trigger and still focus on the front sight, and when it goes click is your eyes open and still on the front sight.

Visual yourself with a consistent firm grip and a rock steady hold with your eyes focused on the front sight and the target and rear blurry. This is something you can do right before you go to sleep.

Also I found a problem I have been having and did not know, I put new sights on my 45ACP, hoping that it would help my tired old eyes, and hopefully remove the flyer I get once in a while (a foot or more away at 10yds). They are fiber optic and when I put my gun up to shoot it outside I could not focus on the front sight with my master eye, my "weak" eye would focus on the front sight. Turned out my vision is better with my left eye than my right eye (right eye is my master eye), so with both eyes open when I concentrate on the front sight I have a hard time lining up the sights, have to close my left to shoot, but it is not as clear.

Free advice, and worth every penny :)

[Edubya]

I found two things that helped me with the handguns. One; to keep me from flinching or blinking was to unload into a berm. That's not even aiming, just point and shoot from a safe distance and concentrate on keeping the eyes and hand steady through a couple of mags or cylinders full. Secondly; as has been mentioned several times, start shooting from a rest, whether it be from a bag or Creedmore. This will help you realize what you have been doing from a free-hand style. You may want to load up a few blanks or duds, interspersed with full live rounds, to see if you are flinching or jerking, or blinking.

Well, one more fault that I found that I had; looking up too soon. I was not doing a full follow through and looking to see where the shot went.

It's fun learning if your progressing,
EW

[mooman76]

Great info here. I might add a couple things here. Do not antisipate the gun going off. It should be somewhat of a surprize. If you antisipate it going off you can fall into the bad habit of pushing the gun down as it fires throwing off your aim. I watched many a people on the range do that. Some so bad they are shooting into the dirt at 15y. You also should be at ease and relaxed when shooting(taht comes with practice). It you are tence and nervous because you are not used to shooting, you shoot much worse.
Lastly you are shooting a Glocks. They have a trigger set. After you fire the first time, let up on the trigger easy and you should here and feel it click. The trigger is now reset and it takes less pressure to pull the trigger again unless you let up all the way. This is something you can practice while dry firing. It's not really that hard as long as you get it in your head that it isn't hard.

[.30/30 Guy]

If you have a .22 RF handgun or can borrow one shoot that for a while. Shoot it at the distances that you plan on shooting. Prove to yourself what a good shot you are with the .22.

After you are happy with the results you are getting with the .22 start shooting the .45 again.

[Bass Ackward]

OK I will be the first to admit that I am a poor shot. i do good with my handgun out to about fifteen yards but at 25 I can't seem to find the paper. I feel that it is probably got alot more to do with Nate then the gun (a full size glock .45 auto).

Thanks Nate


I'm going to take another twist. Ain't always you.

What makes me consider this is the fact that we are taking about a single gun. A single gun with what kind of rifling?

We have had numerous posts where guys have a great load at a certain distance only not to hit paper when the distance is increased. With cast or with jacketed.

Don't clean your barrel well and what you describe is guaranteed after awhile. Makes like a smooth bore. Some rifling types are more prone than others, like polygonal types.

So hand your pistol to someone else and see if the pattern holds. If it is bad for him too, then maybe you have to look farther. If it ain't the gun / load, then the other guys covered that.

[DIRT Farmer]

+ 1 on the 22. The only reason I ever learned to shoot a pistol was free 22 rimfire at the ROTC aromery. Light recoil, the ability to shoot long strings and reletvely cheep.

Ten years I went to qulify for the PD just before I had open heart surgery. I forgot my glasses and thought what the heck, my cert would expire before I would be released to work. I shot 234/240 and could not see my sights. This proves two points, one it dosen't take a lot to qulify for the PD and pratice had tought me where the gun was pointed.

[deerslayer]

I'm going to take another twist. Ain't always you.

What makes me consider this is the fact that we are taking about a single gun. A single gun with what kind of rifling?

We have had numerous posts where guys have a great load at a certain distance only not to hit paper when the distance is increased. With cast or with jacketed.

Don't clean your barrel well and what you describe is guaranteed after awhile. Makes like a smooth bore. Some rifling types are more prone than others, like polygonal types.

So hand your pistol to someone else and see if the pattern holds. If it is bad for him too, then maybe you have to look farther. If it ain't the gun / load, then the other guys covered that.


I understand what you are saying about letting someone else try it but unfortunately I am geographically surrounded by "experts" that do not shoot any better than I do so I will have to figure this one out. That is why I am asking.

I do have an uncle that truly is very, very good and when I asked him he explained I had two problems No. 1 was that it was not a Colt Commander and No. 2 That I had not drank the blue kool aid. Yeah he is one of those guys his way or it cannot be done. BTW I am in no way knocking his equipment I simply cannot afford his taste.

I plan to sandbag it ASAP at 25 yards to begin with and see what kind of results I get.

As to barrel fouling, I have found that brake cleaner and a nylon brush returns it to like new condition every time I shoot it. I have checked extensively for leading and have not had any leading issue's yet. Even after 4-500 rounds no leading only powder fouling and is cleaned per above methods.

[deerslayer]

If you have a .22 RF handgun or can borrow one shoot that for a while. Shoot it at the distances that you plan on shooting. Prove to yourself what a good shot you are with the .22.

After you are happy with the results you are getting with the .22 start shooting the .45 again.

No .22 available right now. But if the right deal comes along I may have a new practice toy.

[a.squibload]

Good info, agree, practice with a 22 first, and strength training helps.

Was taught as a kid to take a breath, let most of it out then don't breathe in while working trigger.
Different from "hold your breath", more relaxed, no pressure.

Wife has to make her shot between heartbeats. I can barely feel mine, low BP.

I hadn't shot anything for a long time, went to break in the little Kahr 40.
After about 30 min the top muscle in my forearm started to spasm a bit.
Talk about wiggling the sight picture!

[AzShooter]

Glock triggers can be worked on. Mine was a crisp 2 lbs. I had a friend that worked for Glock do it for me. Just took lots of polishing and a little inkering with the springs.

[Echo]

Wife has to make her shot between heartbeats. I can barely feel mine, low BP.



Top marksmen do that unconcsiously - they learn it without realizing it.

[Bass Ackward]

I plan to sandbag it ASAP at 25 yards to begin with and see what kind of results I get.

As to barrel fouling, I have found that brake cleaner and a nylon brush returns it to like new condition every time I shoot it.




Yea, a lack of proper cleaning is like accusing a man of stealing around here. Still I find that when I shine the white light from an LED source in a barrel from a guy locally and ask them what that dull stuff is , I get blank stares. It ain't the leading, it's the fact that it affects accuracy.

I hate polygon rifling. I have it in rifles and in handguns and lead has to be way harder to perform and designs so much stronger. It ain't lead friendly. It is shooting out of my new S&Ws to more conventional. Up until it gets there, my velocity has to stay WAY down and my bullets be like chips off ol Plymouth Rock to hang. So you can understand what I am saying, my 357 S&W would spray the 358156 like 14" groups at 25 until I cut the charge from 12 grains of 2400 down to 9. I am back up 11 1/2. But normal charges for this is 12 to 13 1/2 grains.

Let's look at your first statement above. Personally I would like to see you bag it much closer and then move out. That will provide info. And if you could shoot jacketed that would be even better.

Your use of break cleaner is a heavy degreaser that guys often clean out their molds with. That's another reason for the jacketed.

Maybe you think this is a waste and if so ignore this. But "You" aught to be able to tell if you are flinching or blinking. This still could be a confluence of factors here.

[AzShooter]

I'm at the range a lot and the biggest problem I see is people trying to practice at a target too far away. There's nothing wrong with shooting at a target 5 yards in front of you. It gives you a chance to see what is happening during and after the shot.

When I shot professional archery I spent hours shooting at close targests to perfect my form. I was able to win a few national championships and shoot a number of perfect 300s but could never have done it if not for concentrating on form even with my eyes closed.

Get close, pay attention to what's happening and you will be able to print decent 25 yard groups soon enough.

[44man]

Top marksmen do that unconcsiously - they learn it without realizing it.
My resting beat ranges from 48 to 57 per minute. Standing and doing anything brings up everyone's beat, so figure 70, but some will be a lot higher then that, as much as 90.
That is a very, very short time between beats to fire a gun.
Taking a few deep breaths will speed up the beat too.

[ole 5 hole group]

Off-topic here but for 44Man and other seniors having a rested heart beat in the 40’s (lower 40’s)– you better be careful and maybe speak to you doc, as blood can coagulate in a heart chamber if you’re unlucky and will later kick out a clot or two and you could be in trouble – stroke wise. Best to be in the lower 60’s if you’re in good shape.

[Changeling]

This should be a sticky! One of the better posts ever done hear.

[Echo]

My resting beat ranges from 48 to 57 per minute. Standing and doing anything brings up everyone's beat, so figure 70, but some will be a lot higher then that, as much as 90.
That is a very, very short time between beats to fire a gun.
Taking a few deep breaths will speed up the beat too.

There is an optimal arousal level for all activities. The arousal level for the hundred meter dash is different from the arousal level for shooting, and those are both different from the optimal level for golf. Practice, and good coaching, can cause a marksman to approach that optimal level, and their pulse rate, and concentration, &cetera, will work toward the best score.

And deep breathing is part of a technique for reducing anxiety, that reduces arousal, and pulse rate is attendant with that.

At Perry many years ago there was a team member who was known to be tightly wound (helicopter pilot - what would one expect?). He would get visibly upset when he shot a 7, for example, and slam the shooting bench. That 7 was history - he might have been better served to dial it back a couple of notches and concentrate on basics, rather than expend resources on history. He was hoping to be the first Academy graduate to break 2600. He didn't make it. His 'resting' arousal level was fairly ideal for being a helicopter pilot. But he couldn't dial it back to the level necessary for top competition.

YMMV...

[deerslayer]

I'm at the range a lot and the biggest problem I see is people trying to practice at a target too far away. There's nothing wrong with shooting at a target 5 yards in front of you. It gives you a chance to see what is happening during and after the shot.

When I shot professional archery I spent hours shooting at close targests to perfect my form. I was able to win a few national championships and shoot a number of perfect 300s but could never have done it if not for concentrating on form even with my eyes closed.

Get close, pay attention to what's happening and you will be able to print decent 25 yard groups soon enough.

I understand what you are saying about learning the fundementals up close. I think after the advice here I had better work on the fundementals and retrain myself in proper shooting techniques and I will work on that more before moving out to much. To be honest I don't even practice at 25 yards I have just tried it several times in the course of shooting only to find out I can't even hit the paper reliably.

My goal is to eventually be on the paper at 50 yards. But that is a long way off figuratively and literraly!

[ANeat]

Deerslayer If youre near Cincy come to a bullseye match. They have them at the Fairfield sportsman club every month thru the summer.

There are a lot of good shooters in the area, If not bullseye go to some of the USPSA or IDPA matches. They wont be shooting at 50 yards like the bullseye shooters but they still require the fundamentals.

Your Glock should be able to do 3" or so at 25 yards. And the Glock 45 is pretty lead friendly.

Here is my 25 yard target from the cast boolit postal match, pretty good but I didnt win, another shooter from the Cincy area beat me (Dale53)

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/picture.php?albumid=153&pictureid=1598

[ANeat]

I should add they also have GSSF (Glock) indoor matches at Target World, Very fun and you get to compete shooting your Glock at multiple distances out to 25 yards.

[44man]

There is an optimal arousal level for all activities. The arousal level for the hundred meter dash is different from the arousal level for shooting, and those are both different from the optimal level for golf. Practice, and good coaching, can cause a marksman to approach that optimal level, and their pulse rate, and concentration, &cetera, will work toward the best score.

And deep breathing is part of a technique for reducing anxiety, that reduces arousal, and pulse rate is attendant with that.

At Perry many years ago there was a team member who was known to be tightly wound (helicopter pilot - what would one expect?). He would get visibly upset when he shot a 7, for example, and slam the shooting bench. That 7 was history - he might have been better served to dial it back a couple of notches and concentrate on basics, rather than expend resources on history. He was hoping to be the first Academy graduate to break 2600. He didn't make it. His 'resting' arousal level was fairly ideal for being a helicopter pilot. But he couldn't dial it back to the level necessary for top competition.

YMMV...
This is true and why I pointed it out. It was real bad starting a match, many times to the point of shaking.
By the way, my heart beat has always been slow because of the extreme exercise I did when I was young. We even rode the old balloon tire bikes 20 miles to go fishing, once rode from Cleveland to Akron to fish. Old Schwinn Knee action mule. :mrgreen:
Even today at 72, it takes me 20 minutes on the Tread Climber to get to 100 unless I over do it, which I won't.

[deerslayer]

I should add they also have GSSF (Glock) indoor matches at Target World, Very fun and you get to compete shooting your Glock at multiple distances out to 25 yards.

I have shot at target world once and I personally did not care for it. The indoors and shooting just do not go together and the little theives kept sweeping my brass up. I just couldn't concentrate on what I was doing with all the other folks swinging guns around it seemed a little unsafe. I am not a marks man but I am a safe person with firearms and prefer others shooting near me to be also.

I would guess at the matches it may be better with qaulified people there but through the week in the evenings it was not the place for me.

By the way that is real nice shooting there!!

I will have to try one of the other matches that sounds like fun. i was invited to one in Oxford a couple weeks ago but I was tied up that weekend.

[deerslayer]

I am just curious if others are out there with the same kinda questions as I have and if they are getting the benefit of this knowledge also? If so maybe this is a candidate for a sticky thread?

[ANeat]

Yea target world can be an adventure, Ive shown up and shot the match but thats about all I can stand also.

I believe Fairfield Sportsman and perhaps Oxford also have Bullseye leagues in the evenings thru the week where you get some more serious practice without shooting an entire match. You dont need to be a member and its probably not too far for you.

http://www.fairfieldsportsmen.com/leagues/bullseye.shtml


Getting a decent 22 pistol as others have mentioned is a great, probably the best, way to learn.
I would recommend a decent used Ruger MarkII


Almost everyone was bad when they started, some desire to get better. I was terrible when I started but really wanted to be what I considered a good shot.

Some catch on real fast, some take a while, Im more of a slow learner, or I had more bad habits to break LOL

As far as Bullseye they have matches somehere every weekend, Fairfield (1st) Lexington (2nd) Miami Rifle and Pistol (3rd) Lynchburg (4th)

They have leagues thru the week at Fairfield (Wed) and Miami Rifle and Pistol(thurs)

Dont worry about "sucking" everyone has been there. You could probably show up at a league shoot and borrow someones gun to get a taste.
If you need any more info just ask. There is help out there, you need trigger time and possibly a few pointers but once you get the basic fundamentals down its just a mater of practice

[44man]

All new fellas need to realize that all of us have days that just suck. One day all is going great and a few days later we might be better off with a bowling ball! :veryconfu
The important thing is to never get twisted and learn to laugh at yourself AND your friends. Laugh together over those misses.
I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.
Your mental attitude is the most important thing. All of the best shooters are gracious, accept a loss and offer a hand to the winner.
If you get angry and sulk in a corner, find another sport.
Being together and having fun with a great bunch of guys is priceless no matter how anyone shot.
I feel this is the most important lesson to learn. Lose with dignity and a smile. Friends are more important.

[deerslayer]

All new fellas need to realize that all of us have days that just suck. One day all is going great and a few days later we might be better off with a bowling ball! :veryconfu
The important thing is to never get twisted and learn to laugh at yourself AND your friends. Laugh together over those misses.
I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.
Your mental attitude is the most important thing. All of the best shooters are gracious, accept a loss and offer a hand to the winner.
If you get angry and sulk in a corner, find another sport.
Being together and having fun with a great bunch of guys is priceless no matter how anyone shot.
I feel this is the most important lesson to learn. Lose with dignity and a smile. Friends are more important.


I agree completely!

[KYCaster]

Here's an exercise that may help a bit. I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned already.

Cut a pencil or 1/4 in. dowel to about 2 1/2 in. long. Curl your fingers like you're holding the grip of your gun. Put the dowel between the pad of your trigger finger and the heel of your hand as if you're pulling the trigger.

Watch closely while you apply pressure to see if you're pushing or pulling your "trigger" from side to side rather than straight back.

See if you have any sympathetic movement of your other fingers.

Any movement at the trigger will be transferred to the muzzle and compounded by the length of the barrel. The result is larger groups at the target.

Good luck.

Jerry

[Echo]

A

I heard too much cussing on ranges and even seen a guy wrap a $300 bow around a tree when he missed.


These fools abound, and not just in the marksmanship sports. My son's FIL is one - has about 20 putters, and blames everything but himself when he doesn't get what he expects. Jim won't play with him any more - has seen him helicopter a putter across the green one time too often.
A show of emotion is just that - a show. Concentrate on basics, and do the best we can, and press on...

[a.squibload]

Freind of mine worked as a caddy when he was a kid. One day his customer threw a whole set of clubs in the water, bag and all, and stomped off.
My freind fished 'em out, cleaned 'em up and sold 'em. Nice tip.

[44man]

I tried golf when I was young and never seen such a bad bunch. About 3 times was enough for me.
It is not sport or fun, just how much money you can throw at it hoping to be a winner.
Some shooting sports are the same and you need to be rich, not work for a living or be subsidized so you can shoot a million times a week. However, even those guys don't have the anger issues that golfers do.
I really believe most shooters are a far better bunch of great guys and there are just a few that spoil things. They don't last long because after spending thousands, they never improve so they leave. A real sportsman never gives up, even with a cheap gun.
It still comes down to your attitude and I have to say, resources. I have had to quit things I love from lack of funds.
Even if you don't shoot with others, you can get good on the cheap and have fun.
It is why I like all of you here.

[HeavyMetal]

Something that might help is targets marked with a discription of what caused the shot to "land" in a specific area on the target.

I've seen these in the past, as an example if your aiming at the "bull" and your round hits at 8 O'clock the targe tells you if your pushing the gun sideways with your finger or "pushing"
the shot out of the gun!

I haven't seen these in a range or gun shop in awhile but I bought a target program from Cabella's a few years ago and it has this target on it and in both left and right handed configurations.

If you can't find these on the web I'd be more than happy to print a bunch and sent them to you.

Be aware these are set up to print on 8 1/2 x 11 sheets of paper but should be good enough to see easily out to 15 or 20 yards far enough to help you cure your problem.

Let me know.

[wistlepig1]

Dry fire,Dry fire,Dry fire, Oh did I say dry fire!

Please made sure the gun is not loaded, I have a friend that got to buy a new TV and almost a new Wife.

[deerslayer]

I got one of those from the target sticky on here

[Blacksmith]

What do your 25 Yard groups look like? How about some target pictures maybe we can see a pattern to improve our advise.

Blacksmith

[Lloyd Smale]

44 man hit on one of the most important things that ive learned. For years ive allways was told to take a breath and hold it when you shoot. That may work for rifle shooting off the bench but with a handgun you need to breath normaly. What i try to do is shoot when im exhaling as you tend to relax more at that time. the rest of his post is spot on too. Only thing id add is you need a consistant grip. Both in location of your hand and in grip tension. Also people have a tendency to try to see where there bullet is hitting imeditately after shooting and this causes poor follow through.
All good information and the gun is good enough to hit some targets to 100 yards, not group shooting of course but it can clang steel down there.
Two very important things mentioned above to work on. Never make the gun shoot as you wiggle past the bullseye and never jerk the trigger thinking about recoil. The first usually goes over the target and the second makes tater furrows in front of you.
About breathing, I rarely hold my breath while attaining a sight picture, just breath slowly and normally. This cuts down on the shakes and blurred vision. Just before trigger break, then hold it.
I shot IHMSA from Creedmore and always kept breathing until the last second.
Once you get the hang of it, it is easy. Holding your breath for a long time with a hard trigger makes things worse at the time the gun is ready to go off. You just need to learn your trigger and even a hard, creepy trigger can be shot well.
Use the pad of your finger and pull straight back, you would be surprised how many come here to shoot and stick their whole finger in the guard. The inside of your finger should not be touching the side of the gun.
Point both thumbs at the target and use a slight push forward with the right hand and a slight pull back with the left.
The most important thing is to ignore gun wiggle as long as the sight picture is around the center, just keep adding pressure. You should never know when the gun will go off and even the speed steel shooters remain in more control then you think. That is from tons of practice.
Very few can hold still while aiming, those that can shoot thousands of rounds a day and have developed nerve and muscle strength control.
I would laugh at myself trying to shoot off hand with a 10" barrel. The barrel would slowly dip down and I had to keep raising it. Now I have no problems but a light, short gun will wiggle like crazy because I got used to heavy revolvers.
Every time you shoot a shot, stop and determine what you did wrong and correct it right away. Work on that for the next shots.
A few shots done right is better then 100 done wrong because you don't want the bad habits to become ingrained, they get harder and harder to recognize and cure. Shoot one shot and sit down to think about it before shooting another. After you remove each mistake, one at a time, you can increase speed.
Don't get discouraged. Pick through these answers from the guys and ask yourself which ones you were doing wrong, write them down if you must and set the list on the shooting bench.

[deerslayer]

What do your 25 Yard groups look like? How about some target pictures maybe we can see a pattern to improve our advise.

Blacksmith

I will try to get out and shoot tomorow if the weather and wife allow me to!

[ANeat]

Here is some good reading material, The Army Marksmanship pistol Manual. Mostly bullseye focused but the basic fundamentals apply to all aspects of shooting

http://www.saveourguns.com/Ar_Marks_Un_Pistol_Train_Guide.pdf

[deerslayer]

Ok set up today at 23 yards with a rest and did quite a bit of shooting. I found that most of my shots were 3" left of center at that distance. Though still not tight groups like I wanted it did seem to be getting better. I tried putting more support against the left side of the fire arm as i shot and this improved things some. I also worked on trigger control and using the pad of my finger rather than who,le finger. I will need to practice alot more that is evident!!

[475BH]

Look thru this site, lots of good information here.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/

I don't shoot indoors as well as outdoors, and overcast isn't as good for me as full sunshine.

[deerslayer]

Set up again yesterday and shot at 23 yards. I shot two different OALs and factory ammo and all had about the same results (actually the cast shot a little better). At 23 yards I am about 2-3" left of center and groups of about 4" with multiple flyers here and there.
Maybe I am wrong but it almost seems to me that is all the better the gun will do. I will take credit for some of the flyers but I also felt a few were undeserved.

What should a person expect a Glock 21 .45 acp to do at 23 yards? (all stock no upgrades at all)

[MtGun44]

No experience with Glock accy, but I do know that a lot of the Europistols intended for
M&P applications really aren't particularly accurate, like 3-5" is real common out of the
box with factory ammo. Like all generalizations, it will be definitely wrong in many
particular cases, but I tend to think that the normal level of accy that you will see from
a S&W .38 Kframe revolver is relatively rare in modern M&P wonder pistols and tactical
tupperware. Their market simply does not desire greater accuracy. The majority of
Euro cops would be considered to be poor shots by most on this site.

[ANeat]

A Glock should be good for 2-3 inches at 25 yards off a Ransom rest (with the right load)

Shooting a 4" group at 23 yards is fine, considering the sights and trigger are made for "combat " not precision.

The "flyers" are what you need to eliminate

[Eagles6]

Haven't read through all of the posts so maybe this has been covered.
I did see that you were using your whole finger and good advice to use the first pad.

Your groups don't seem bad at that range except for the flyers.
Use sandbags on a rest at that range and see how the Glock does. This gives a better feel how the pistol shoots, sight alignment and such. If you minimize your flyers that way then you can figure out what to work on. Can also tell if the previous owner sold the gun because it didn't shoot.
Had a Berreta 96 like that.

What ammo are you using? Guns are like women, they only like what they like. Might be an old ford pickup and they turn their nose up at a Mercedes convertible.
Shoot at least a box each of different brands and weights, cleaning between boxes.
Take notes. Save your brass and send it to me as I can divine your problem from your spent brass. :mrgreen:

Don't aim too small, it's not rifle that's going to shoot 1" groups at 100 yds.
Use a full size silhouette target or trace a large coffee can lid on a piece of paper and color it in with magic marker.
You'd be surprised how much you will improve by doing this.

[onondaga]

The best tip I ever got to improve with a handgun was an insult from a female handgun instructor. She told me I had wimpy limp wrists---I was a body builder at the time and a towering physical hulk. She prescribed finger and wrist exercises with a squeeze grip exerciser and a chain roll to develop strength in my fingers and wrists. The chain roll is a common gym exercise and uses a 1 inch dowel with a thin 3-4 foot chain attached and a 10 lb weight disk attached to the chain. Roll it up slowly, roll it down slowly in repetitions of 20. Get your hands and wrists powerfully strong and holding a handgun steady while squeezing the trigger smoothly will be a LOT easier.

[felix]

That female instructor is right on. That building technique is/was used by the majority of college pistol teams of years gone by. Now, here is a new one from my wife, thought up apparently by herself and used by some college teams as well, primarily rifle, after she has written about it in college newspapers. Place yourself back behind the target; pretend to pull the bullet/boolit out of the gun until it magically goes off. That takes your mind off of the gun entirely, and won't allow you to shoot until every shot counts inside your head. ... felix

[44man]

The best tip I ever got to improve with a handgun was an insult from a female handgun instructor. She told me I had wimpy limp wrists---I was a body builder at the time and a towering physical hulk. She prescribed finger and wrist exercises with a squeeze grip exerciser and a chain roll to develop strength in my fingers and wrists. The chain roll is a common gym exercise and uses a 1 inch dowel with a thin 3-4 foot chain attached and a 10 lb weight disk attached to the chain. Roll it up slowly, roll it down slowly in repetitions of 20. Get your hands and wrists powerfully strong and holding a handgun steady while squeezing the trigger smoothly will be a LOT easier.
The wrist has few muscles. Strength comes from the forearms. Maybe that is why I shoot the groups I do, I was a mechanic and could break large bolts easy. Had to use a torque wrench. [smilie=s:
You need strong wrist bones and tendons but the forearms need to be strong.
My finger strength comes from archery but fingers have few muscles, mostly tendons connected to your forearms. But bones get strong too.
Does what you do in life affect shooting? Sure it does. Sit at a desk with a pencil, call a plumber, an electrician, a ditch digger or even a painter for all you need done around the house and you will not be strong enough to control a gun. Those that use tools are better.

[Tommy Kelly]

I shot handguns for years and hit close most of the time. Then I got a video with the proper stance and hold shown on tape. I watched it several times and paid close attention. Then went out and tried the proper stance and grip and it made all the difference in the world in my shooting. Now if I don't hit what I shoot at I can tell you what I did wrong. I own 3 glocks that I shoot rather well with. Out to about 40 yds a coke can is in serious trouble most of the time

[Armyguy80]

Its been pretty well covered from top to bottom in one way or another. After reading everything a few things I would like to point out. 1st is your eye dominance, are you right handed and right eye dominant? I bring this up because I was a right handed shooter and after being injured in Iraq I had my right hand amputated. After I started going to the range and being dismayed by the results I got a tip that instantly made my grouping get better. I am right eye dominant but now shooting left handed and by putting just a SLIGHT "gangster tilt" I.E. Turning the gun to the right the sight were now inline with my dominant eye. Front sight, is key as well. Another trick I found that has helped is using the top of the sight, not the line or dot on your sights but the actual top of the post. If you are still shooting left and are right handed the pistol Correction chart says that you are now using too little trigger finger. Of course practice, dry fire strength and practice are all key as well but have been covered and will not beat a dead horse anymore. FWIW I am shooting a Glock23 and find it to be a great pistol, since my injury I have had to relearn the basics and done most of my shooting with the 23. One last note as far as .22's go since you have a glock I picked up an ISSC m22 its a .22 glock look alike. While it is hammer fed and does have a safety the feel and trigger are about as close to Glock as youre going to get. Its a bit picky with ammo but still way cheaper than .40, it works for me. Well thats my 2cents worth happy shooting

[1bluehorse]

Just as in golf.......grip it and rip it....[smilie=w:

[DrCaveman]

I know this thread is old, but being a sticky I thought this was the best place to go.

I was testing my boolits and loads yesterday, and I was cycling between 3 guns: ruger lcr 38, smith model 19 4", and ruger gp100 6". As the day progressed, my accuracy in EACH gun suffered. Maybe some of this had to do with fatigue, but I am curious how many guns you all shoot during one session, especially when you are testing new loads. I think I may have overwhelmed my scientific sensibilities by opening too many variables. My thinking was that I wanted to see how these loads shot in my three favorite wheel guns, but after a while I was missing the 10" target at 20 yds.

Is this normal? I know the sights/POI aren't the same for each, but I thought I could switch around and be proficient. Maybe just expecting too much of myself, too early. Lcr has only about 500 rds, gp100 prob just cracked 1000. Who knows with the smith but I've put about 1500 through her.

[The Amateur]

Hmmm, lots of variables to account for. How accurate are your powder charges? Any leading in the barrels? What is your pulled boolit dia. after loading into your brass? Are you holding your breath? Don't! (I know this sounds bass akwards but, I just breathe normally when shooting pistol. Try it!)

I shot a 3" group from my .45ACP at 25 yrds. last weekend. Moved target in to 7 yrds. and shot a 1.5" group of 12 shots. My wife's 9mm didn't do too well because of case swaging. I fixed this problem yesterday by modifying the expander die insert on my lathe. It was shooting a 3" group at 7 yrds. and had a bunch of barrel leading. My pulled boolits measured .352"! The bore slugged at .3575" so they must have been bouncing around in there!

[taminsong]

In IPSC matches, I can't finish a 32rd course, my wrist aches and my trigger fingers seems too heavy to pull the trigger. I noticed it a lot of times. I was using a Ruger GP100 6inch.

Reading from above, I think exercising my fingers is the solution, but sometimes too lazy to that!

[BCRider]

Taminsong, your mention of your wrists aching after a stage or at the end of the day is the indicator that you are simply holding the gun too hard.

Ease up with the pressure and replace it with a good "full contact" sort of grip that is simply as hard as what you would use for shaking hands with a good friend. You want to support the gun, not leave impressions in the grips.... :D

Once you ease up on the pressure on grips you will find that your trigger finger doesn't get as tired. By overly gripping the gun you're tensing all the muscles through your forearm and that is where all the tendons for your fingers pass through. Pressure on the tendon jackets from the overly hard grip will produce that feeling of strain and exhaustion.

In short "relax and have fun". It sounds cliche but it's the answer to shooting both faster and with greater accuracy at the same time.

[Jim..47]

Its been 40 years since I shot in competition, but I entered the sport never having fired a pistol before.

I learned very quickly that hovering over the bullseye and then squeezing the trigger off, while still hovering was the only way to shoot good. In my first year I was winning in competition with other guys who had shot for years.

I know that physical strength has a huge benefit in shooting off hand. At the time I was very strong. One of the things I did to strengthen my shoulders was to hold weights out to the side at full length. I could really hold them a long time. I just never got tired.

Things aren't quite like that anymore :wink and as a result I can't hit a thing. but I thought this might help you younger guys. Oh yeah, I did tons of fry firing too. Makes a big difference.

[Wal']

What works best for me is first your stance, I have just skimmed through this thread, sure its been mentioned.......what I mean is rather than fight your gun when sighting, try closing your eyes & bring the gun up to your perceived firing position, keep moving yourself around......staying within your shooting bay of course, ;) until you come up on the target centre.

Then hold on the black & squeeze, the gun should release & punch a hole at least in the black, breathing should take care of itself, & should just come natural.

Pretty much works for me. :drinks:

[Jim..47]

What works best for me is first your stance, I have just skimmed through this thread, sure its been mentioned.......what I mean is rather than fight your gun when sighting, try closing your eyes & bring the gun up to your perceived firing position, keep moving yourself around......staying within your shooting bay of course, ;) until you come up on the target centre.

Then hold on the black & squeeze, the gun should release & punch a hole at least in the black, breathing should take care of itself, & should just come natural.

Pretty much works for me. :drinks:


Thanks Wal, Yeah, I will be trying that, soon as I can get the time and ammo around.

[BCRider]

What Wal posted was suggested to me by a long time bullseye shooter. I found that when I did that little setup drill prior to taking gun in hand that my groups shrunk by a noticable amount. This being for one handed bullseye style shooting. For two handed isosclese triangle stances it's pretty much square on.

[yoter]

Breathe, focus on the front sight, squeeze the trigger and practice, practice, practice!

[Wal']

Breathe, focus on the front sight, squeeze the trigger and practice, practice, practice!

Spot on.

[Turbinedoctor]

Two things that I found over the years that helped me, along with all the things mentioned on the first couple of pages, was

1) To be completely honest with myself. After proving that most of my guns are more accurate than I am, I had to start realizing and fessing up that the problems were with me and to continue to work on my fundamentals. Dry firing is a great way to do this.

2) A combination of follow through and calling the shot placement before my eye had a chance to see where it hit. Being able to correctly call the shot placement means you are seeing the sight picture when the trigger breaks. Having your eyes open when the trigger breaks and not blinking was covered earlier. You also have to be honest, this forces you to admit you made a mistake which is not a bad thing. After all as long as you learn from your mistakes you are getting better.

After starting to use these two tips I started to find when I was jerking the trigger and started working on, and am still working, eliminating that.

Some one mentioned earlier using a few dummy rounds for autos or an empty chamber or two for revolvers, this is a great way to see if you are flinching. I do most of my practice shooting by myself so it is hard to not know which chambers are empty, and I find when shooting my revolver I count the rounds as I fire them and stop when I get to 6. If I stop counting the rounds fired and I don't know when I fire #6 then when I drop the hammer on #7 I sometimes find that I indeed did pull the shot.

Being afraid of the recoil and or noise can be large contributors also. Again being honest with yourself, are you nervous. If so that is fine, just slowly fire a couple of shots into the back stop or other safe area, and each time think about what you just felt. Did it hurt, are you still in one piece? If it did hurt then you need to consider your grip, stance and even if the caliber is to large and make what ever adjustments are needed to get you comfortable. I found with my wife and kids they were indeed nervous and this helped them calm down a great deal.

As mentioned before start with close targets and gradually move back. Gradually does not always mean move from 15 to 25 yds. That is all most twice the distance you were shooting at. You may start at 5 then move to 7 then to 10 or if you are doing better than you thought you could move a little farther. The trick is to not move so far as to have your groups open up to much to fast. This causes discouragement and if your not careful you may find you start beating up on yourself and start blaming the equipment you are shooting. A discouraged student is very reluctant to continue to learn at that point. Stop, walk away for a while or even come back in a day or two but do not continue until you have had a chance to calm down.

These are some of the things I continue to use today to help improve my shooting skills.

Durwood

[FergusonTO35]

I usually practice with my handguns at a distance of 12-15 feet. If I keep my eye on the front sight I can keep the elevation correct within an inch or so. For the life of me I cannot overcome pulling my shots one to three inches to the left at this distance. The effect is the same with my Glock 19 and 26, S&W 10-5, Ruger Service Six, and Taurus 82. The only help I have found so far are the typical accuracy tricks that apply to any gun: good reloads, changes to the trigger mechanism for better pull, better barrels for the Glocks. These help in the sense that the gun groups tighter but the pull to the left is still there.


At this point the only thing I can think of is that I need to change my grip and/or trigger pull. My miserable neurological system will not allow me to squeeze the trigger, my trigger finger does not respond to very fine motor skills commands and sometimes even goes numb when I try. Seriously, I can't even do it on my buddy's Remington 700 with 1.2 pound target trigger. A quick, deliberate press is the best I can do. From reading different things online I think maybe changing the way my trigger finger engages the trigger could help. The usual correction target suggests that I am using too much trigger finger. Maybe if I engage the trigger face with the very tip of the finger under the nail as if I am making a guitar chord that could help me pull it straight back. Any other suggestions? Maybe learn to shoot left handed?

[flyingrhino]

I watched a guy shoot many years ago that totally intrigued me. He was shooting a 45 cal glock with a laser on it at 15 yards and just going around the hole and eating it out as he went. When he got done shooting I asked him how he was able to shoot like that. He said the laser was because his eyesight was going but he learned to shoot in the Marine Corps. He was the captain of the pistol team when he retired. He gave me a few pointers, pretty much all of the comments above. But, the one thing he said that was the most important was shoot, shoot, shoot. I told him that my goal was to be able to shoot as well as him. He told me with practice he knew I could. From that point on I shot an average of 1000 rounds per week. This was in '95. Proper technique and repetition develops muscle memory.

We saw one another about every weekend at the range and became good friends. He was an investment banker and had some really nice toys! Anyway, long story short, I eventually got to the point that he claimed that I was better than him. I don't necessarily think that's true but I was able to hold my own against him. With him shooting the laser you could really see how steady he was. That dot barely moved on the target. That's good technique and solid muscle memory.

Practice all that you can afford but also find a mentor. Pick someone that shoots REALLY well. Ask them to evaluate you. You don't want to form bad habits. I instructed for many years later for law enforcement and border patrol. The biggest problems I saw were ego's getting in the way of learning proper technique. Men had a tendency to think that they were born with the innate ability to shoot a gun. My best students have always been female. They don't have an ego, no preconceived notions and they have a much lighter touch. They listen and take instruction well.

You obviously have the right attitude. With that attitude you WILL get better. Your choice of pistol is fine. The comment about a lighter trigger is valid. Glocks typically came with an 5#, 8# or 12# (NY) trigger back when I bought my first one. I put a 3 1/2# trigger kit in mine. It helped tremendously. When I started competing I went to the 1911 and shoot nothing but since. That's just personal choice. It just fits better in my hand.

Have fun!

[FergusonTO35]

Thanks. I have the 3.5 connectors in both my pistols, they are too hard for me to even make minute of bad guy accuracy in stock form. I would say I fire around 60 handgun rounds a week. I should probably dust off the Single Six and put alot of .22's down range to build muscle memory and work on my grip. Rimfire ammo is somewhat available here again so I suppose I should take advantage of it.

[FergusonTO35]

Spent some quality time with my Taurus 82 and Glock 26 today. One thing I found that really helps is to rest the trigger guard of the pistol firmly atop the trigger finger of my support hand. This adds alot of stability.

[tazman]

Spent some quality time with my Taurus 82 and Glock 26 today. One thing I found that really helps is to rest the trigger guard of the pistol firmly atop the trigger finger of my support hand. This adds alot of stability.

I have found that to be true also. It also helps to counteract my tendency to push the gun to the left when pressing the trigger improperly.

[FergusonTO35]

A little more progress to report. I've been shooting my fixed sight Taurus 82 alot lately. I've found that if I take my left thumb and keep it firmly pressed against my right thumb when firing this counteracts the tendency of my trigger finger to push the muzzle to the left. Was doing a little shooting at 15 feet yesterday and actually bullseyed it a couple of times. Onwards and upwards, hopefully.

[popper]

my tendency to push the gun to the left when pressing the trigger improperly. Try firm grip at the front and back of the grip, not the sides. Tips of fingers do NOT have pressure on the grip, else trigger pull will tighten those finger tips and pull left..

[Jtarm]

Dry fire against a white background. No target.

Just focus on the front sight and getting the shot to break without disturbing alignment.

[country gent]

I used to tell people starting out buy a 22 rimfire that you like and shoot it weekly for a year. Every time you finish a box of ammo put $20.00 in the coffee can ( basically difference between 22 and most centerfire ammo) At the end of the year you have sight picture hold and trigger control down and are ready for the centerfire. Now open the coffee can and theres the money for the centerfire you want and some starter ammo.

Starting out with the big boomers seldom works well, our nervous systems arnt able to handle the booms, flash and recoil flinches result. Lhe ild mannered 22 gets the nervous system up to this. A lot can be accomplished thru dry fire better if combined with live fire sessions to confirm. Use a big target to start it might not be your a very poor shot but the ammo gun combination may not be sighted in. Some sighting in may be required

Last and most target shooters do this routinely. Learn to call your shots when shooting. Knowing you drifted off into the 8 ring area when the shot broke explains a lot when the shot is in the 8 ring there. Being able to "call shots" is a big help in shooting.

Agun sighted in from a solid rest and bench position may have a slightly different poi/poa due to the differences in how hold and recoil affect the firearm

[Alferd Packer]

I shoot primer propelled wax bullets.
They can be shot from an automatic but they must be single loaded.
Shooting these at paper will really help.
Also if you reload.
You can load up some minimum loads using lighter weight recommended bullets.

[pattern14]

This one of the better threads I have yet to come across. Even though i started shooting handguns competitively when I was a teenager, all these years later this advice is invaluable. Ingrained bad habits are much harder to fix in your sixties than your twenties, but I guess I'm pigheaded enough to still try and shake them off. If nothing else, handguns keep you honest; one handed shooting with iron sights require far more skill than shooting a bull barrelled 7.62 prone from fully adjustable rests using a $3,000.00 scope with a range finder.

[Alferd Packer]

Try a 50/50 mix of household vinegar and hydrogen peroxide on the bore and see if anything comes out on a patch after it sits for awhile in there.
You will find out if the gun bore is really clean.

[tazman]

A couple of things I have found over the last 7 years is----
1-- Learning to shoot accurately with a handgun takes a lot of time and proper practice. Particularly when you start with a bunch of poor habits and bad technique like I did. Being old with unsteady hands and poor eyesight does not help.

2--- My impact point has changed markedly over the years. As my trigger squeeze gets better and my hold improves, my sights have required some adjustment to allow for my improved form. It is amazing how far bad technique will throw a bullet.

When I first began to really learn this skill, If I could hold all my rounds on an sheet of copy paper I felt like I was doing well. Then I saw some really good shooters firing at the range and found out just how bad I was. I asked questions and paid attention and worked at getting the bugs out of my form. I still have a ways to go but things are getting better. Now my poor groups are better than the best groups from years ago.

I finally got good enough to tell when I have a poor load for any particular gun. Until now, anything that would shoot into 4 inches at 10-12 yards was a good load. Now, if it doesn't shoot under three inches at that distance, I know it is the load and not me.
I still can't do well at longer distances yet.
If I live long enough, I may actually become a passable shot with a handgun.

[HWooldridge]

An older friend of mine (late 80’s), used to be a member of the Army pistol team and he gave me a couple of tips on offhand shooting.

He said nobody can remain still due to our human physiology but we can control movement to a degree so he would transcribe very small circles with the sights moving in a regular rhythm. The sights should circle in either direction then the shooter starts slowing the pace and pressing the trigger. If everything is good, the gun goes bang when it all lines up. If not, make another circle.

He also recommended holding a 10 lb dumbbell at arm’s length to condition the muscles. Do that daily and most any pistol will be easier to hold.

He is fortunate to live in a rural area and also built a simple hinged target that was a piece of steel plate with a 1” hole cut in the center. A steel paddle was hung behind on a hinge so hits could be easily seen. The front plate was painted white and the paddle black, similar to a conventional paper target. He hung this on a fence post 25 yards from his front porch so he walk outside to shoot. He would only use a .22 so the target lasted a long time.

[Longfellow]

Read The Pistol Shooters Treasury.

[justindad]

I started using my chest muscles to press my support hand and my trigger hand together, kinda like sandwhiching the pistol grip between my two hands. Do the normal grip stuff too.

[Jtarm]

Two words: dry fire. A lot.

I call it “white wall” practice. No target, just a bright background that lets you clearly see your front sight. The goal is to get the imaginary shot off without the sights moving out of alignment.

This saves a ton of time & money learning trigger control.

[Wooserco]

Sorry, I haven't taken the time to read through each and every post. You've been given some great advise here, as is the usual.

Regarding dry firing: My son's high school wrestling coach was on the US Army High Power Rifle team. One of the exercises they did was dry firing, working on trigger control. They worked in teams of two. One on the firing line in prone position. The other would balance a nickel on the front sight. Shooter would dry fire. Goal was 100 shots without dropping the nickel. Drop the nickel, start over. Shooter could not leave the firing line until the 100 shot goal was attained.

Another point that I was taught is this: Natural point of aim. Get yourself into shooting position, align sights on target. Close your eyes and relax. You should still be on target. If not, you were "muscling" the sight onto the target.