Newbie needs help

[2_Smithereenz]

Hey guys,
I'm new to this forum and new to casting, but I've been reloading for years. This casting business is like Mad Science and it kind of blows my mind a little bit.
I have some questions about getting started, if you all don't mind sharing your wisdom.

First question is the wheel weights- This is where I'm starting. I got some wheel weights from a scrap yard and I know that zinc is a bad thing in your ingots. So my question is: How do you tell the zinc ones from regular lead WW's??
I did read that muratic acid will make them fizz? Is this the method that you all use?
BTW- I have already melted down 9lb. of sinkers, which should be pure lead.
And I started melting down my WW's and only did 6 muffin ingots in my first pour, then decided to stop before I ruined any of my ingots by dropping in some zinc WW's. I don't think that's happened yet, because they look real good.

I think I will just stop there and finish my task of melting all these WW's down into ingots before I get too far ahead of myself. I will have lots of questions as I go along. I also belong to a popular reloading forum and there are lots of boolit casters there, but there seems to be a greater wealth of knowledge on the subject right here.
Thanks for any help
2_Smithereenz

[4719dave]

I hit them on the vise lead goes thud and the zinc goes ping .When in dought get a pair of side cutters the zinc will not cut ! the lead is soft . youll tell ,also some of the zinc are rivited

[2_Smithereenz]

I hit them on the vise lead goes thud and the zinc goes ping .When in dought get a pair of side cutters the zinc will not cut ! the lead is soft . youll tell ,also some of the zinc are rivited

Thanks for the info Dave, I've heard those before and for some reason after trying those options I still have my doubts. I guess I'm just familiar enough with WW's to be sure if I'm able to tell the difference? It's quite possible that they are all lead since I got them in Mo. and we do not have a lead ban as of yet?
Maybe that's why I can't tell the difference, because they are all the same?

That's why I was wondering about the muratic acid trick. But I don't even know where I could get any of that either??

[Muddy Creek Sam]

If you keep your smelting temp down below 700 degrees, Zinc floats. I also use muriatic acid on unknown ingots. only works with pure muriatic acid, and you can get it at a plumbing supply place.

Sam :D

[2_Smithereenz]

Thanks Sam, that's the info I was looking for. I still haven't gotten a thermometer yet, I guess that's first on the list.
Might pick up some muratic acid too, and test the ingots I've already made.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Zinc will stain Black.

Sam :D

[fredj338]

If you keep your smelting temp down below 700 degrees, Zinc floats. I also use muriatic acid on unknown ingots. only works with pure muriatic acid, and you can get it at a plumbing supply place.

Sam :D

This works, but I still sort. After a while you get a feel for what the zinc weights look like. If in doubt, the side cutter are 100%, zinc can not be cut or dented w/ them. ANything riveted on is not lead. Tape wts that won't bend are not lead.

[2_Smithereenz]

This works, but I still sort. After a while you get a feel for what the zinc weights look like. If in doubt, the side cutter are 100%, zinc can not be cut or dented w/ them. ANything riveted on is not lead. Tape wts that won't bend are not lead.

Thanks Fred.
As a matter of fact, I just got done smelting all my wheel weights down about an hour ago. I kept my heat down as low as it would go and still have the lead melt. I didn't find a single floater in the bunch. I also tried the presorting methods that everybody mentioned and couldn't find any zinc ones, so I think I got lucky on my first batch and there weren't any zinc WW's in the lot? My ingots turned out real nice. I ended up with 41 muffin pan ingots of straight wheel weights, and 5 ingots of sinkers I had around my garage.

I didn't get to crazy with fluxing or anything like that. I just skimmed off all the junk and kept scraping the sides of the pot to get all the dirt I possibly could to come to the top.
I just wanted to get them smelted down into ingots and I'll flux/clean it better when I get my Lee production pot, as well as mix my antimony. That's a whole new adventure for another day. I haven't even bought my boolit molds yet, or even purchased my 1911 either for that matter? But it never hurts to think ahead.:razz:

I sure appreciate everyones help and advice on this.
It can be a little confusing for someone who has never done it before. I hope I've got a better handle on it now.

Chris

Here's a Pic

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww146/mohunter68/FirstMuffinleadIngots.jpg

[fryboy]

oddly enough ... there's all kinds of tips but until we put them in practice we wont build experience and that does help alot ,the old hands can almost tell zinc by looking at it ( tho some pieces require closer examination ie; the hammer/side cutter test ) lookin at ur pile i'd say ur doin good ! ( and with no zinc ww's found ur also havin some beginner's luck lolz -that never hurts ! ) tho i will advise one thing .... flux and skim it good as ur making the ingots !! saves the crud from getting in ur lee pot !! i make a potful and then flux twice and then when i alloy i of course flux again ( all this before it ever gets to my casting pot ) i learned long ago with an old lee production pot to never smelt in it ( it took forever to clean ) and once i tried alloying in it and i'm not sure what it was ( acted like tin ....) but it messed up my whole melt and the pot and took twice as much work to clean , if all else fails and some one doesnt have a smelting pot an old gallon coffee can will work ( will burn a hole in it eventually tho )

[2_Smithereenz]

Thanks for the tip Fryboy. If that's the case with the Lee pot, then I'll put my ingots back in my stainless pot that I smelted the WW's in, and add my antimony and flux the batch in that.
Then I call always move it to the Lee pot, by either re-pouring the batch into ingots or just ladle it over to the Lee pot.
I've seen guys add flux to the Lee pot as they go along, is that also a bad idea? Or is that common practice to keep fluxing as you go along with your boolit pouring?

[sagacious]

...
I've seen guys add flux to the Lee pot as they go along, is that also a bad idea? Or is that common practice to keep fluxing as you go along with your boolit pouring?
Fluxing will keep your LEE pot from clogging. Flux whenever you add more ingots, or any time the oxides seem to be building up. Fluxing only helps, never hurts. Flux early, flux often.

When you don't flux the raw ww's, but instead "skim off the junk" you were likely skimming off antimony and tin. Flux before skimming off the clips, and you retain as much of the Sb and Sn as possible.

The side-cutter test won't let you down on the zinc ww test. Hydrochloric acid will bubble when in contact with zinc, some other metals will turn black, but hydrochloric (aka muriatic) acid is dangerous to fool with. No reason to buy/store/use dangerous chemicals when a side-cutter works better/faster/safer.

Won't hurt to alloy your antimony into your lead in your LEE pot. You'll probably need to add some heat, as with a propane torch.

From your stack of ingots, it looks like you're not going too far wrong. Keep up the good work.

[2_Smithereenz]

Thanks Sagacious. I didn't skim too much of the film off, mostly just the clips and trash that floated up, the bigger chunks of junk. There was still plenty of dirt in the bottom of the pot when I poured them out into muffins, and it ended up on top of each ingot as you can probably see in the pic. I know that will need to come out when I eventually get around to making my mix.

[WHITETAIL]

2 Smithereenz, Welcome to the world of smelting!:redneck:
As far as fluxing goes do that in your smelting pot.
You can get by in useing a paint stick from the Lows
or Home Depo store.
Alot of guys use old wax from their wives or girlfriends
candles.:Fire:

[2_Smithereenz]

2 Smithereenz, Welcome to the world of smelting!:redneck:
As far as fluxing goes do that in your smelting pot.
You can get by in useing a paint stick from the Lows
or Home Depo store.
Alot of guys use old wax from their wives or girlfriends
candles.:Fire:

Thanks Whitetail, I think that's the way to go. Since I've got all my WW's melted down now, I can just put however many ingots back in my stainless pot and flux them in there. That way I won't funk up my new production pot.
Thanks for the tip.

[Wayne Smith]

If you are using wws why add antimony? WWs typically have enough to harden even when cut 50/50 with pure.

[2_Smithereenz]

If you are using wws why add antimony? WWs typically have enough to harden even when cut 50/50 with pure.

Well, I have been talking to some guys who don't use any antimony. They are using straight WW's and I've heard that if you want them harder all you have to do is quench them in water when you drop them?
I just thought it was a given that you had to add something else to make your alloy harder, or otherwise you would get leading?

[bruce381]

I use straight WW in my 45 acps and no leading work well. Not water qunched either.
Just fluxed good and air cooled all you need to do.
bruce

[giz189]

Welcome 2 Smithereenz! You will get leading more from an undersized bullet or some bad lube than you will because of a soft boolit. Even a hard bullet will lead if it does not fit the barrel of your pistol or rifle. Absolutely necessary IMO to slug your barrel or make a cast of the chamber and part of the barrel so you will know what dia to size boolits to.

[sagacious]

Welcome 2 Smithereenz! You will get leading more from an undersized bullet or some bad lube than you will because of a soft boolit. Even a hard bullet will lead if it does not fit the barrel of your pistol or rifle.
Critical info right there. Harder is not always better. Good luck.

[2_Smithereenz]

That's good to know, because I would rather NOT add anything to my mix if I don't have to. From everything I've gathered, from all the reading that I've done, and asking questions, ect.
Straight wheel weights are fine without any added material, and if you want a harder boolit, you can quench in water, or heat treat in the oven.
Would all that be an accurate statements?

What about if you wanted to carry your .45 in the woods hunting? On deer sized game at close range, what then? Still go with straight wheel weights, or harden them up a little bit?

Now I don't plan to hunt deer on a regular basis with a .45 don't misunderstand me, I'm just talking about carrying it with me in addition to my deer rifle and say if one gets close enough and I just want to shoot a deer with it, would you harden or alloy your lead then? Or, still just go with straight wheel weights?

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Dead soft BP boolits have killed a lot of animals, Deer included.

Sam :D

[sagacious]

Straight wheel weights are fine without any added material, and if you want a harder boolit, you can quench in water, or heat treat in the oven.
Would all that be an accurate statements?
...
On deer sized game at close range, what then?
Clip-on WW alloy is really great stuff. It is remarkably versatile. We are unbeleivably fortunate to have it available. Water quenching will harden it without alloy addition. It's easy to test it to see what it's all about. I reckon you'll have to answer the question of why you want harder bullets.

Air-cooled WW alloy will work fine for close range pistol deer hunting.

It will profit you to remember that harder is not always better. Commercial casters have brainwashed a generation of shooters/reloaders with this harder-is-better nonsense. It is not always true. I use air-cooled ww alloy for a very wide variety of calibers because it's so versatile, and a perfect fit for so many applications. Good luck.