Galena, LEAD ORE

[mlarkin_09]

There is a shortage of lead in my area and it got me to thinking something crazy.
A few hours south of here there is the town of Galena KS. As you would guess there are lots of lead mines in the area.
I think I remember my grandfather telling stories of old timers picking up chunks of ore off the ground smelting the lead out over camp fires to make there musket balls.

Has anyone here ever tried actually smelting lead from ore this day in age for bullets?

I don’t suppose it would be much different from melting down jacketed range bullets or raw wheel weights.

My family has some ground south of here that have coal strip mines on it and you could pick up coal that was scattered about after the mining.

I have never been around a galena mine but would think there would be left over pieces of ore scattered about from loading trucks or wagons.

[starbits]

I have never smelted galena, but did look up how once. Galena is PbS and is about 86% lead. After the ore is crushed it is heated to a couple hundred degrees and oxygen is forced through it to remove the sulfer and replace it with oxygen forming lead oxide. Then the temp is raised in a reducing (using flux) environment to melt out the lead.

Don't know if it would work just throwing it into a fire. Try it and let us know how it works.

Starbits

[Doby45]

It would be the "ULTIMATE" coolness factor if you literally smelted your own lead.

[mlarkin_09]

It would be the "ULTIMATE" coolness factor if you literally smelted your own lead.

It would be a cool new hobby and a new challenge. At first I thought it would be a cheap way to go as the lead would be free. But after doing some research it appears that you would spend quite a bit of dollars in fuel to get the btu's required to smelt any substantial amount.

[mlarkin_09]

During some browsing on the net I found a place a couple hours south of me in the Ozark Mountains called Doe Run. Apparently they are the Largest Lead mining and smelting operation in the western hemisphere. The web site shows current led prices at .80 a lb for pure lead ingots. I may give them a call tomorrow and see if they sell it in reasonably small quantities.

It might be cool as well to see if they would sell the raw ore as I still would like to give smelting a try.

[RedneckAlbertan]

Don't know if it would work just throwing it into a fire. Try it and let us know how it works.

Starbits

I don't know what effect that sulpher would have in a Lead alloy. I do know that sulpher makes steel alloies very very brittle and hard.

[mlarkin_09]

I don't know what effect that sulpher would have in a Lead alloy. I do know that sulpher makes steel alloies very very brittle and hard.

Ok please share more info
Is sulpher abundent in and around led aloy? Or are you just talking about using it as an agent to increase bhn?
I have no idea I have yet to see raw led ore in nature

[sagacious]

Galena looks a lot like lead. Same dull blue/gray color, very heavy.

Galena is lead sulfide, PbS. Heating galena in open air (exposed to oxygen) causes the lead sulfide to react with oxygen and create pure lead and sulfur dioxide:
PbS+O2 ---> Pb+SO2

Very simple chemical reaction. Reducing or smelting a small amount of galena would be very easy-- a candle, a pipette, and a block of charcoal is all it would take for a tiny bit. The rub is that it'll take a whole lot more heat to smelt 25lbs of galena and recover about 20lbs of lead. It would be a lot more work than melting down 25lbs of ww's or range lead. The smelting would produce quite a bit of sulfur dioxide, and it's not good to breathe a lot of SO2.

The way to indulge one's desires would be to buy a small lump of galena at a rock shop, and crush a bit and try smelting it. That would give you a good idea of what the process would involve. Good luck!

[waksupi]

Lead ore has various appearances. It can range from an almost perfect cube formation, to a rough shaped mass. The cube type is from natural formation with no other action. The rough shaped is from shifting earth, due usually to water movement, and collapse of the surrounding chamber. Some of the deposits in the mid west are in chambers that have had all surrounding dirt washed away, leaving it in a separate chamber in the earth in a perfect cube, some weighing up to a ton.
The lead in this area is collected from hard rock mining, so depending on local conditions, can exhibit either condition Appearance will also vary according to various contaminants. The local lead here, is fairly clean, with a mixture of silver and a bit of gold in it. A sample I have from the mid west Mines of Spain area, is a yellowish looking mass, with obvious sandstone and sulfur inclusions. Raw lead also has naturally occurring arsenic in it, and can not be totally removed at processing, so our alloys contain some arsenic for hardening purposes.
For early settlers, I believe a usable lead was fairly easily smelted for use in muzzle loaders. For use by the government though, and mass casting for military projectiles, I'm sure the more refined lead from St. Louis and other processors was required.

[sagacious]

I have bunch of beautiful galena hand samples collected from all over South America. Not going to smelt any of them! :-P

[Hickory]

I may give them a call tomorrow and see if they sell it in reasonably small quantities.

Tell them you're building a sailboat and you need some lead for ballast.
That goes over better with people who don't like guns.

[willk]

Tell them you're building a sailboat and you need some lead for ballast.
That goes over better with people who don't like guns.

And how many tons of lead (as well as other usable equipment and supplies) were given over to salvagers after the mess was cleaned up in the New Orleans small boat harbor after Katrina? (the mess cleaned up with our tax dollars:sad:)

[yarro]

A few years ago a friend of mine got a free sail boat that was in really bad shape but large. Towed it home took out around 1000 pounds of linotype with most of the tin burned out and pure lead in rectangular ingots. Cut up the boat and took it to the dump. Cost him about 200 bucks for disposal and building a crib to put in on since they wanted to keep the trailer it was delivered on. He eventually mostly got his investment back when he sold fittings and other bits that didn't go to the dump on end up in the burn barrel. The ingots had to be cut in half on a band saw to get one in the smelting pot. They weren't terribly easy to get out of the boat either, but sawzalls help. Some sailboats use water as ballast so may not have ballast weights or a minimum of them so if looking a free boat check this out first.

-yarro

[RedneckAlbertan]

Ok please share more info
Is sulpher abundent in and around led aloy? Or are you just talking about using it as an agent to increase bhn?
I have no idea I have yet to see raw led ore in nature

I can't tell you much more than that. I have no knowledge of what sulpher would do to lead and know only slightly more of what it does with steel.

When I was in school for welding I remember them mentioning that sulpher is not good in steel alloies and is concidered an impurity. Looking back at my books from school: sulpheris normally kept below .06%, but in slightly greater quantities, improves the machineability of a metal (0.1% to 0.15%). But sulpher makes the steel more brittle and prone to cracking.

I found this to be an interesting read as well: http://elmtreeforge.blogspot.com/2005/04/problem-of-sulphur-in-steel.html

[GLL]

Smelting galena ( pure lead sulfide) in your back yard will gas the neighborhood with a white cloud of sulfur dioxide ! :)

When we work with metallic sulfides such as stibnite, realgar, or galena I require each of my students to wash up with soap before leaving class and eating a lunch burrito !

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/FF710CEA50F2952/orig.jpg

[sagacious]

The rub is that sulfur dioxide gas is colorless. So you cannot see what you're breathing, but you can sure smell it.

Sb2O3 volatilizes to form white vapors or a white cloud, at least in my experience, during the reduction of stibnite.

Good luck, and be safe.