'94 Winchester .32 Win Spl Info needed

[Fugowii]

I'm picking up a pre-64 '94 Winchester this afternoon in .32 Win Spl. I know absolutely
nothing about the rifle or loads but it is a great deal that I couldn't say no to. If you
folks that use this caliber/rifle combo might be generous enough to share with me your
reloading and firearm experience I would appreciate it.

Winchester 94; Blue Finish, Cal. 32 Win.Sp., 20" barrel, 2X Redfield Scope, Made in 1960.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/Win94.jpg

1) Moulds/Boolits - Where do I start. I have nothing.

2) Alloy - I can make it so whatever you recommend for normal range/hunting is fine.
I'm not interested in setting boolit speed records.

3) Brass - I have none - Who makes good brass for this round?

4) Dies - I currently use Dillon exclusively but they don't have this caliber. I'm not
going to be making tens of thousands of rounds but I do like good quality tools (don't need
match quality) so I don't have to spend any amount of time troubleshooting
problematical ones.

Thanks very much,

F

[jlchucker]

I'm picking up a pre-64 '94 Winchester this afternoon in .32 Win Spl. I know absolutely
nothing about the rifle or loads but it is a great deal that I couldn't say no to. If you
folks that use this caliber/rifle combo might be generous enough to share with me your
reloading and firearm experience I would appreciate it.

Winchester 94; Blue Finish, Cal. 32 Win.Sp., 20" barrel, 2X Redfield Scope, Made in 1960.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/Win94.jpg

1) Moulds/Boolits - Where do I start. I have nothing.

2) Alloy - I can make it so whatever you recommend for normal range/hunting is fine.
I'm not interested in setting boolit speed records.

3) Brass - I have none - Who makes good brass for this round?

4) Dies - I currently use Dillon exclusively but they don't have this caliber. I'm not
going to be making tens of thousands of rounds but I do like good quality tools (don't need
match quality) so I don't have to spend any amount of time troubleshooting
problematical ones.

Thanks very much,

F

I'm a 30-30 user, but just the other day I was eyeing a 32 special at a local gunshop, and later got looking. Here's what I found, and probably where I'd start, short of looking through the postings on this website and trying to get used to the D***d changes to the program that the site recently made. :groner:

1. RCBS makes a 170 grain mold (gascheck version, flatnose) in 32 caliber. The picture looks like they had 32 Special in mind. Lee doesn't make one, but Lyman has one that looks like it might work. I'd probably start with RCBS. You'll need the proper top punch and sizer, too.

2. Alloy? I use 9 lb wheelweights to 1 lb lead for everything I shoot and it seems to work well enough for me. Others would be more specific, and I'll defer to their expertise. Mine though is what I'd start with. I too go for a good group before speed. I don't own a chrony and my loads haven't bounced off anything yet.

3. brass? It's a proprietary Winchester round so I'd start there. Midway catalogs it. Hornaday makes it, but prices it pretty high. Go on line and see who has what in stock. I've always liked Winchester brass but there's nothing wrong with Remington, either. I've no experience with Hornaday brass but at the prices they are asking it must be miraculously good.

4. Dies? To start with, Lee probably. Or Lyman. Or RCBS. You'll come off cheaper with Lee or Lyman. Check on line with outfits like Midway or Midsouth. If not there you can probably order direct from the manufacturer except for maybe Lyman. Actually, some gun shops may have a used set in stock. The shell holder will be the same as for 30-30.

I hope some others with more specific expertise will soon chime in with a response to your query--and either elaborate on or tear apart my responses. Powderwise, any loading manual worthy of the name should have data you can use. Good luck.

[StarMetal]

Here's my pre-64 Model 94 32 Special. It's wears a quick detach Paul Jaeger scope mount.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg51/starmetal47/32SpclLeft.jpg

I believe you'll find the new RCBS 32 mould may be slightly undersized. I got one and it just makes .321, which is the groove size on my barrel. I like to shoot a little larger then the groove.

I'm using RCBS dies and like them just fine. I also have a set of Lees.

[Char-Gar]

My thoughts on the subject and I do have and shoot a good 1959 vintage Winchester 94 carbine in 32 WS.

1. They are great cast bullet rifles with the gentle 1-16 twist barrels.
2. My mold is an RCBS 170 FN and mine cast bullet large enough to to size. 323.
3. I use 30/H335 for a full factory equal full snort load with excellent accuracy.
4. For velocites in excess of 2K fps, I like No. 2 alloy. Anything less than 2K fps, air cooled wheel wieight would be my choice in alloys.
5. You can make 32 WS cases by running 30-30 cases through a full length 32 die. I don't prefer one brand over another. You can of course buy 32WS cases with the correct headstamp if that makes a difference to you.
6. Accurate loads in the 1.5 to 1.8 K fps range should be easy to fine with 14-17 grains of either 2400,4759 or 4227.
7. Swede of Night Owl Enterprises has a 326407 185 grain mold that should be the huckleberry for both the 32 WS and 8mm. I have this mold but have not tested it yet.

[StarMetal]

The bullet I'm getting the best results for, in my rifle, is the Lee 175 grain for the 8mm. It's a round nose and factory jacketed are round nosed, so I'm not worried about problems in the magazine tube.

BaBore has a 32 mold, but he's going to make some tweaks on it and come out with another.

[jtaylor1960]

The RCBS mold is a good one.Slug your bore as some guns are tight some are loose.My favorite powder for the 32 is H-4895 although several work well.Like mentioned above Lyman #2 or harder alloy may be needed when shooting faster loads.I shot some with 34.0 grs. of Varget and the #2 alloy with good accuracy.I don't have a 30/30 so I use 30/30 brass to make my ammo.I use RCBS dies and a Lee universal expander.I have a 200gr. custom mold I am experimenting with.The 32spl. is one of my favorites and was my first deer rifle.I just bought a Marlin pre microgroove I might take to the woods this year.Good luck!

[bowhunter]

mine is a vintage 1952 marlin 336 with vintage lyman reciever sight. i am getting the pot hot as i am typing. i have never cast for this rifle before, i just recieved my rcbs 170 gr. mold in the mail. but the jacketed bullet i use is a speer 170 gr. with 33 gr imr 4895 win primed. it is a tack driver with this combo. i will report back on how the cast bullets do.
mike

[MJR007]

Reading this made me wipe down my Grand Fathers 32. This one gets shot this afternoon.

[Newtire]

I just size up 30-30 cases and I use the RCBS mould. Mine likes 27 grains of RX-7 and 19 grains of SR4759 with that boolit. It's been raining alot here so haven't had much chance to test anything else but am going to carefully work my way around from 30-30 loads.

Beagle has another article of his in Castpics/articles by members/cast in the 32 special. Click the castpics link at the bottom of this page and it takes you there.

I'm about to try the new NOE 140 grain this weekend. It's a great round.

My rifle is a M64 so has a 24" barrel and gets a little better velocity if that matters.

[Tony65x55]

I have a Win 94 in .32 WS and it is a delightful little gun. It is showing great promise with 32 gr/ IMR-3031 under the Ranch Dog 170gr WQWW. I make my casings by simply running .30-30 brass through the .32 dies.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Sizing 30-30 cases to 32 spl. is not a problem and they work great. 32 spl. cases are a little longer than 30-30 cases but by only a few thousands of an inch. I have a 1935 ventage 32 spl. but haven't shot it in about 5 years shame on me. This thread has got me going though.

[7of7]

My uncle just picked up a Win 94 in 32 spec. Very nice looking rifle.. just a couple light scratches, most likely from contact with another rifle in the cabinet they were in.. It was from an estate sale and they guy had quite a few, stuffed inside a small cabinet. Other than that, it was perfect...
It is going in his cabinet to live for a while.. I would think that they will appreciate in value.
I was a bit surprised when I did a bit of research on the 32 special.. I was thinking it was a straightwall cartridge, similar to the 38 special..
Wonder wh they didn't get more popular.. seems to me that a bigger hole would be better..

[Nazgul]

Ditto on the RCBS mold. It works very well in my 1959 '94 32 Spcl. Casts .323".

Very nice accurate rifle. Brass is available with some looking. Can be formed easily from 30-30.

Don

[executioner]

I have a .32 winch special chambered in a cadet Martini, great shooting little rifle. I cast a 1/20 mix 323470 with a gas check at about 165 gr. without going down and checking, I think the load is 16 grains of 2400. Very pleasent to shoot and accurate, hit the 200, 300,400 and 680 steel with it. Consider your .32 sp just like a 30-30, they are nearly identical for performance. Enjoy it. Executioner

[windy]

i picked up a 32 special 16" trapper--wrangler, they called it--and am tryin' to load it down to 32-20 specs for small game 'n plinkin'. got some .320 105-gr 8mm nambu pistola boolits comin' from one source; when they git hyar i'll hit 'em a lick er two 'n see what they do fer me. like to try a .310 cadet boolit, too; ennybuddy tried them yet? ennybuddy got a few they c'd front me? thet 1-16" twist orta stabilize a boolit much shorter'n a 170-gr. mine shoots all the factory loads great 'n th' hornady "j-wurd" 170's fine either full-bore er loaded down to smokeless 32-40 speeds, but i cain't git .321 cast 160's to wurk with BP 32-40 loads er trail boss either one! don't hardly seem fair t' shoot a bunny er a coon with a big boolit, ennyways.
'course ef one o' you fellers wants ta git rid uv a 32-20 cheep thet'd solve most uv my prollum. er a .310 cadet, tho they ain't 'zackly leverguns, per se. i'm purty new at this stuff; i c'n use enny help i kin git!
thanks, 'n mind yer topknots! windy

[Fugowii]

I finally got around to slugging the barrel of this '94 and it slugs out to .322" How does this sound?
The bore is in great shape. What would I size my casts to? .323"?

Thanks,

F

[bowhunter]

I would go with .324 i have been using mine with rcbs mold, with lube and gas check they weigh 180 gr. Off hand at 50 yards i can cover 4 shots with a quarter. I size to .323 my load is 30 gr. H4895 cci br. Primer.

[Fugowii]

I finally got around to casting about 60 boolits yesterday with the RCBS mold. The average
weight is 181.5 grains with a high of 183.2 and a low of 180.0. These were cast with straight
WW and 2% pewter. As cast diameter is .326 (very consistent). BHN is about 9.5 (12 hours
after casting). I expect they will harden up a little. Any need to water drop these
to harden them up?

[JDL]

They should harden up to 12.5-14 B after a couple of weeks. Looks like you'll be good to go by sizing them .324" and you should be able to get close to 2000 fps without water quinching.
JDL

[358 Win]

Got three .32 Specials. Two Win Mod 94's, and one Marlin 336SC. All shoot the the RCBS 08-170
FNGC very well. Use WW metal and air cool. Weigh 182gr when sized, lubed and gas checked. My
.32 Specials would not shoot the RCBS 08-170FNGC bullet sized .321 or .323. Machinist at work opened up the .321 sizer die to .3225 and voila, all three of them love it. Use 16gr 2400 and the Federal 215 Mag primer for right around 1700fps. The .32 Special Model 94 was used to kill my first deer. My Uncle Jack loaned me the rifle and sold it to me when I got out of the Navy in 1973.
Shot a doe last year with the HDY gummie tip factory stuff. 80yds and bang flop!
358 Win

[405]

Nice set up. I see this thread has run for a while. So don't know what all you've got put together for reloading. For heaven's sake don't let go of that scope/mount combo! That was one of the first top rate "scout type" set ups for the 94 lever gun. Even at 2X they were well made, very practical systems with excellent, clear optics.

For the best loads you'll just have to play around with sizing and hardness.

For brass- sure you can run 30-30 into a 32 W Spl die. But two things: 1) the length won't be right and 2) the headstamp will be wrong. Some say no big deal with the wrong headstamp until the wrong round is attempted in the wrong gun then either a frustrating jam deal or worse in some cases. Years in the future those wrong headtamped rounds seem to find their way back!

[Fugowii]

Got three .32 Specials. Two Win Mod 94's, and one Marlin 336SC. All shoot the the RCBS 08-170
FNGC very well. Use WW metal and air cool. Weigh 182gr when sized, lubed and gas checked. My
.32 Specials would not shoot the RCBS 08-170FNGC bullet sized .321 or .323. Machinist at work opened up the .321 sizer die to .3225 and voila, all three of them love it. Use 16gr 2400 and the Federal 215 Mag primer for right around 1700fps. The .32 Special Model 94 was used to kill my first deer. My Uncle Jack loaned me the rifle and sold it to me when I got out of the Navy in 1973.
Shot a doe last year with the HDY gummie tip factory stuff. 80yds and bang flop!
358 Win

Interesting. What size are the bores? I just got a sizing die for .324. My bore is
.322. How heavy do you crimp? Thanks for the post!

[Fugowii]

Nice set up. I see this thread has run for a while. So don't know what all you've got put together for reloading. For heaven's sake don't let go of that scope/mount combo! That was one of the first top rate "scout type" set ups for the 94 lever gun. Even at 2X they were well made, very practical systems with excellent, clear optics.

For the best loads you'll just have to play around with sizing and hardness.

For brass- sure you can run 30-30 into a 32 W Spl die. But two things: 1) the length won't be right and 2) the headstamp will be wrong. Some say no big deal with the wrong headstamp until the wrong round is attempted in the wrong gun then either a frustrating jam deal or worse in some cases. Years in the future those wrong headtamped rounds seem to find their way back!

I've got a Krupp-American Sizing and Seating die set which I plan to use on a 550B.
I reload 30-06 and .223 on the press and figured it would do a fine job on the .32.
I've already cast the RCBS and here are the results:


Boolit Weight - 56 Samples
Wheel Weights with 2.0% Pewter added.
Avg Wgt Grs: 181.5
As cast diameter: .326"
BHN: 9.25 - 9.5 (62-65 CabineTree)

I will be using a Hornady GC and will lube on a Star to .324 using the Magma lube.
I will trim the cases before using. I just received my sizer die so I haven't lubed/sized
them yet. The only thing I haven't got down yet is the crimp but I planned to take
a look at some commercial fodder to see what they do. The ones I have are jacketed
but I would assume that the crimp for them is not too different from a cast boolit crimp.

[405]

Sounds like you're fully committed to the process and that is a good approach for best results. Still may take some load experimentation though. Just trim consistently to the recommended length then lightly chamfer inside and outside the mouth. A place to start is to crimp into the crimp groove on the bullet. The best crimp usually is the least that will hold the bullet from being jammed into the case during recoil(s) while stacked in a full magazine tube. When looking at the crimp groove in the bullet the best place for the case mouth edge is up against the forward edge of the groove. The idea of minimal crimping is especially important when using the standard roll crimp shoulder in the seating die. Too much can actually reduce neck tension and even distort the bullet- a way to visualize the process.... you are trying to just "fold" the edge of the mouth gently into the crimp groove and up against the forward edge of the groove. If using something like the Lee FCD, crimping is a little more forgiving but still best with the lighter touch. good luck

[45-70 Chevroner]

I just could not take it any more, after all these posts about the 32 spl. I went out this evening to cast up some boolits for mine. I have an NEI 150gr. RFN PB. It got dark before I finished so I had to turn all the garage lights on and a shop light to finish up. I cast about 300, half of them were water dropped and half were cloth dropped ( air cooled). I want to see which one's shoot the best and which one's lead the least. Tire weights with about 2 ounces of 60-40 tin 20 # Lee Furnace 750degrees according to my Lyman thermometer. The boolits all came out nice and shinny and no wrinkles with nice sharp edges. This mold throughs a .322 with #2 alloy I expect them to actually be .323 or 4. I will check them out after a week and see what they stabilize at.

"load suggestions for a PB 150gr. boolit".

[358 Win]

Fugowii, never slugged the bores, just got lucky!! I use a Lee 30-30 factory crimp die on my loads
and it works great. That crimp die is not hurting the cast bullet at all by the accuracy I'm getting. My scoped Marlin 336SC flops them into a ragged hole at 50yds. It has ballard type rifling like my two Win 94's. Have driven them to 2000fps + with IMR4064 and IMR3031 with decent accuracy but the 16gr load of 2400 and a FED215 Mag primer sure hit the sweet spot in all three .32's. I do
NOT use a filler of any kind with the 2400 load. Just load the magazine and let her rip.
358 Win

[358 Win]

Here's two targets shot with the subject rifle. First target is five shots @ 50yds with the Ranch Dog 323-170FNGC @ 180gr using 16.0gr of 2400 and a CCI250 Magnum Primer. Second target is also five shots @ 50yds using the RCBS 08-170
FNGC bullet @ 182gr with Lube/GC seated. Alloy for both is ACWW metal with a little tin (8oz per 10# pot). Load is 38.5gr of H LVR powder and the CCI250 Mag primer. http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0023.jpg
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0024.jpg

My 1958 Marlin is ballard rifled and wears a VXI 2x7x33 scope. Also has a 3# trigger pull which I did not tune, as that is how I acquired it. The 08-170 load is stepping along @ 2278fps (2300fps @ the muzzle). The Ranch Dog bullet with 2400 powder is loafing along @ 1744fps.

358 Win[smilie=s:

[CanuckWR]

Great thread, I just bought a Win 1894 32 WS that was made in 1906. Thanks for the info!

[corvette8n]

1. Ranch Dog .323-170
2. I use wheel weights.
3. Got some Winchester from Midsouth
4. Lee and Lee crimp die.

10gr of Unique and the Ranch Dog are good for plinking

[kopperl]

Got brass , bullets, mold and about 60 rounds of reloads.

Do you want to trade or buy?

(Had BSA Rook in 32 that I rebarreled)

[Dthunter]

I found a 94 the other day, manufacture date was estimated at 1911-1912.
32 win Special. In average condition. What is your guys best estimate of value?

[TXGunNut]

I'm not a big fan of Winchester rifle brass, Hornady worth the slight difference in price and they're shipped in a box so damage is unlikely. Very uniform in length, weight and case mouth thickness.
I like the 323-170 RD mould. LeveRevolution powder seems to be working out OK so far, still tweaking it a bit.

[burch]

I just picked up 1940 winny 94 in 32 w.s. this Saturday. I`ve been checking around to find some load info and components. Can`t wait to get this baby rollin` Awesome thread

[sundog]

Run a 30-30 case thru a .32 WS FLS die and you are there. With cast boolits use 30-30 load data (plenty of it out there) for equal weight boolit and your pressure and velocity will be a tad less than the 30-30. A chrono is a great aid in working up loads. At the top end you can actual surpass the ballistics and accuracy of factory loadings with cast.

The RCBS 170-FN and the RD boolits are very good performers.

[burch]

I slugged mine yesterday and came with 321.5 so what bullet dia. should I be looking at ?

[TXGunNut]

Was going to suggest Ranch Dog's 323-170TL boolit but apparently he's sold out. Seems RCBS has a good mould for the .32 but can't recall the number.

[bruce drake]

I use LEE's .323 dia 170gr RN mold they advertise for 8mm Mauser and they've work just fine for my Win 94. I size to .323 and it keeps them in a tight circle at 50 yards when I used 10gr of Unique.

[OverMax]

Fugowii: Keep your eyes open for a Lyman mold #321497 long discontinued now. But occasionally one shows up on EBay. You run this 497 bullet thru a lube /sizer die set for .323 gas check it and it will shoot exceptionally well from your rifle. If you don't have a way to gas check your 32 bullets get a hold of Buck Shot and have him make you a tool for that purpose. Bullet weight on this 497 cast is 180 gr. and again is G/Checked. 16 grs of Alliant 2400 is a nice mild 1700 fps very accurate charge. There is a speedier and much heavier charge available too for the same 497 bullet. But I won't go there as this info is enough that I've threaded for the time being. You might say I'm kind of parcel towards the 32 as I own 4 of them. 1894/64/2-94s Good luck with the ownership of one of the best little light weight deer rifles ever made and a tiny bit better than that tirdy-tirdy caliber. PM-ing me with any additional questions about this thread is OK Fugowii.

[7of7]

Can I get some good close-up pictures of that scope mount? I really want to do a red dot on my 30-30, but have not found a good mount, and that one looks exactly like what I have in mind...

[358 Win]

OverMax, I believe the mould number you have reference to is 321297. It's the old Lymna/Ideal number. It was designed for the 32 Win Special. I did cast some from our single cavity mold and they absolutely would not feed thru any of my four .32 specials. My casting buddy's pre war .32 Win Specials all fed it fine however.
358 Win

[OverMax]

358 Win you are correct Sir. The mold I was referring to was the Lyman 321297. Thanks for bring that incorrect # to my attention. Since you've mentioned the 297 boolit doesn't work well in your 32 rifles. You might want to check your boolits over all length and see if indeed they measure out 2.550 w/ boolits seated. All my 32s (4 of) are Winchesters. No Marlins in 32 special do I own.

(For Reference: The O.A.L measurement came from Lyman's 3rd. Edition Cast Bullet Handbook a preferred measurement for use with there mold >321297 184 gr. weight g/c cast.)

[windy]

best way i've found to git hornady brass fer mine (i got one 16" winnie and one 24" waffletop marlin 336a) is to buy some of their hotrod rounds 'n shoot 'em--my wrangler (the 16" winnie) don't like 'em much but th' waffletop thinks they're candy. with th' lyman peep it puts 'em into 2" all day at 100 yds--better'n i thought i c'd shoot--at about 2400 fps. 300 savage specs, anyone? i'll be packin' the marlin tomorrow; come daybreak i should be sittin' on the edge of a 500-acre clearcut starin' at a blacktail er three. sure wish i'd got the boolits fer my new old 38-55, though; that'd be some, it would!
mind yer topknots!
windy