#13 Babbitt

[11B-101ABN]

Anybody ever do any casting with # 13 Babbitt? This stuff goes by the name of "White Metal Bearing Alloy (Lead Based)". Or any other number babbitt for that matter. I got several hundred pounds at an auction, looked it up on the web and got some numbers: Sn (Tin) = 6% Sb (Antimony) = 10% Pb(lead) = 83% As (Arsenic)= .25% and some impurities less than .1%. I figured the high tin content would be good for mold fillout, the antimony, lead and arsenic are close to wheelweights. Any Comments?

[Bill*]

Curious as to the hardness after you pour some. Are you gonna water drop or just let them cool on a towel or whatever? I think they'd quench pretty hard.

[Edubya]

Welcome to the forum 11B-101ABN. Wher's your homestead?

I'll bet that they would look pretty but I also think that they would be considerably harder than WW, certainly harder than #2.
EW

[deltaenterprizes]

Cut with 50% soft lead would give content close to Taracorp's "Magnum" alloy, that is 2% tin, 6% antimony, and 98% lead. You could go up 75% soft lead and still get nice bullets.

[sagacious]

What you have is fairly close to linotype Sn4/Sb12/Pb84.

If it were mine, I'd cut it as Deltaenterprises suggests. That makes a good alloy for many applications. Good luck.

[Old Goat Keeper]

2%+6%+98%-=106% ?????

Tom



Cut with 50% soft lead would give content close to Taracorp's "Magnum" alloy, that is 2% tin, 6% antimony, and 98% lead. You could go up 75% soft lead and still get nice bullets.

[JIMinPHX]

There are different alloys of babbit metal. The stuff that I had was about 5% tin, 15% antimony & 80% lead. When I mixed about 20% of it into WW, I got a mix that poured well down to 550 degrees F, came up around 13 bnh air cooled & around 27 bnh water dropped. I think that 20% babbit was too rich of a mix. I think that 5-10% would have been plenty for what I was doing.

edit: 3 days later the water dropped stuff is now around 30 bnh.

[11B-101ABN]

I haven't done much with the babbitt, it came with a Guaranteed Analysis paper (which I can't find now) so I figured it was something special. Ten years ago I bought an 8500 lb. chunk of lead (YEAH...4 1/4 tons) which was ballast in a high rise crane that was being scrapped, built a bon-fire over it and made 5 lb ingots for three days. Don't have a clue as to what the brinnell was, just mixed it 50/50 with wheelweights when I cast. I would add some 60/40 solder for more tin to keep good mold fill, and since I was shooting mostly conservative (paper) target loads for 9mm .40 and .45 ACP, with no noticable leading of barrels, it worked well for me and the guys I shoot with. But that supply is pretty much gone now along with 100 buckets (roughly 10k lbs.) of jacketed bullets that we bought from the traps in a local indoor range for 5 cents a pound. For a while we were going through around 100k rounds a year, but that was between 6 guys....because I live out in the middle of a cornfield (literally) I made most of the boolits for the guys (No burn bans, smoke ordinances or any other restrictions the city guys have to put up with). We still do lots of wheel weights and lead pipe as we find it, but I was wondering if the babbitt might be useful for some rifle stuff (where I don't have a lot of expertise). So I guess my original post should have been...Has anyone done anything with similar alloy for (mainly) .30 cal rifle loads since the babbitt appears to have good potential?

[44fanatic]

From one Brother to another, welcome to the forum and "Screaming Eagles" to ya.

[11B-101ABN]

44fanatic: Thanks fer the welcome, was with 1/506 Inf. Co E Recon 67-68 RVN. Haven't been to Ft. Campbell for quite a while...are the "Currahees" still there?
What's your casting interests? I assume from your username you like .44. I just got one...what do you recommend for a paper target load?
...Bob...

[Suo Gan]

There might be zinc in it. I would proceed with caution until you know what ya got.

[44fanatic]

Currahees' made there way back here in 2004 when we went from 3 Brigades to 4.

As for my reccomendations for loads, Im still new at casting and reloading.

[sagacious]

As for my reccomendations for loads, Im still new at casting and reloading.
I have to congratulate you for the candor and restraint of your response. Shows a very responsible individual indeed-- good onya!

[11B-101ABN]

Roger that on the ZINC...it don't mention zinc in the guaranteed analysis, so I'm hoping it's OK. Asking lots of questions now...(on the babbitt)...will retire in Sept and be experimenting in ernest then. Will post .
44fanatic: Airborne All the Way...or is it Air-Mobile now? Got about 20 yrs doing 9mm, and .45....... .40 about 5 yrs no .44 yet, maybe we'll learn together.

[Edubya]

What's your casting interests? I assume from your username you like .44. I just got one...what do you recommend for a paper target load?
...Bob...

I ain't 44fanatic but I'll share my paper loads .44 with you. I'll use as little as 7.5 gr Unique or 17.5 gr of 2400 for regular target loads. These are both safe for specials or mags. You can add 4 gr to mags for some hunting loads and be safe in doing so.

Did you ever get into Tuy Hoa AB in your time over there. I was A.F. and I know that the Army guys got in there as much as possible while I was there. It was like a R&R for them and we hosted as many as we could; always enjoyed their revelry of making it through another mission. Call sign; "Echo Whiskey Whiskey".

EW

[11B-101ABN]

OK Ed, here's what I got...Lyman 429421B SWC 245g, Lee 90334 WC 210g, and a Lee 90336 SWC 215g. None of them are gas check which is good cuz checks are wasted money for paper. That Lee WC looks like a little fireplug (cute). You didn't mention boolit weight so I threw that in. I think I got one of those tumble lube Lee molds in .44 also but I couldn't find it tonight. Got a bottle of Unique and maybe some 2400 too. I bought this old farmhouse to renovate 9 years ago and only HALF done fixin it up, but at least I can shoot into a pile of sand in the back yard. Still finding stuff in boxes.
Flew into Bien Hoa Oct 67 (C141). Never made it to Tuy Hoa, some time during TET 68 caught two 7.62X39 rounds in abdomen and another bounced off my head after penetrating the steel pot. Caught another Starlifter (Medevac) from Ton Son Nhut to Tachikawa AFB Japan, Spent 5 months in 249th Gen Hosp in Osaka then got reassigned on Okinawa for 5 months then another Starlifter from Kadena to Travis. ETS jan 69.
...Bob...

[Wayne Smith]

To go back to your original question - you have a formula to make this very close to Lyman #2 which is adequate for rifle loads. By changing this mix a little or water dropping it or tempering (heat treating) it you can make it just about as hard as you want. What you have is very versatile, you just need some pure to mix with it. You have both antimony and arsenic in it so it will harden.

[11B-101ABN]

OK Wayne Thanks...A couple quick questions....when you said mix some pure with it, can that be wheelweights that had EVERYTHING skimmed out of it or do I need to find some UN-alloyed metal to do the mixing? Also, regarding the mix, If I melt the babbit into 1lb molds (ingots) and the pure into the same size ingots and put 8 of each in my Lee Pro 20 would that be the 50/50 mix, or do I need to count the babbitt as only 83% and do the numbers percentage wise? In other words...How do you measure it? Sorry about the uncertainty, None of the pistol boolitts Iv'e made were pushed over 1000 fps, in fact the 9mm were the only ones that got close. But I have seen some of the guys shooting gas checked rifle boolitts over a chrono clocking between 1800 and 2100 fps.
...Bob...

[Wayne Smith]

Actually the deciding factor is how OCD you are! WW are not consistent alloy, to add them adds a variable that is ever changing. The larger amount you smelt the more consistent they will be. What you are really after is boolit hardness, not boolit alloy percentages. The percentages give you a guesstimate of hardness prior to hardening.

[11B-101ABN]

What's OCD?

[Wayne Smith]

Obscessive Compulsive Disorder. Those who fear that if they don't control everything they will fall apart. Mind goes around and around a single subject and won't let go. Repeatitive behaviors. To a minor degree it is helpful, think Martha Stewart. Severe and it keeps one from functioning effectively, think Howard Hughes.

I believe anyone who has a graduate degree has it to some extent.

[RedneckAlbertan]

OCD = Obsessive–compulsive disorder

[11B-101ABN]

I guess I haven't kept up with the times...I think we used to call that plain old "crazy". Anyway, the reason I asked about percentages was because I usually get flack for not paying ENOUGH attention to detail. I think you're right about the hardness being the desired factor.....it's been about 9 years since I did anything with rifle boolits it ended in more of a mystery than anything else. I do remember the first batch of 50 failed to hit a 4x8 sheet of plywood covered with black targets and flourescent orange dots at 200 yards with any regularity. I used 160 gr. Lee cast and the same charge I used for 150 gr. jacketed FMJ. They sailed over the Alpha Chrony at close to 3000 fps and probably disintegrated. THEN I found out about gas checks and slowing cast projectiles down to 2000 fps. I started getting a lot more hits on the 4x8 target, but still no patterns. I have two Savage 112BVSS 30.06 cal set up identically with 6-24 Weaver scopes and heavy fluted barrels. The one I shoot jacketed through will ALWAYS give me 6" groups or less at 200 yards even with my bad eyes and shaky hands. Shooting off of concrete benches at the club range I could not get the cast boolit gun to group better than about 16". In 2001 I bought this house and have barely kept up with the pistol boolits we all need and no time to experiment with rifle rounds. With retirement getting close, I would like to try again. I guess a good question would be ... What would be a realistic goal (group size) for cast boolits at 200 yards be?