Need Garand Help!

[smoked turkey]

I went with a friend to a local gun store today and came home with a new (to me) M1 Garand. I have wanted one for quite a while but never saw one that hit my fancy until today. I have zero experience with the M1. Never fired one until this afternoon. I came home pretty pumped with my new purchase. I shot it at 60 yards using some of my handloaded ammo for my Remington 700 '06. The load functioned perfectly seems to me. The load was 50 gr H380/150 gr BT FMJ bullet/expected velocity of 2500'/s. No jams, 2" group, empties landing approx 4' toward front of shooting position. The clip ejected sort of straight up and landed in my lap. I am on cloud 400 with all this. Now to why I am writing because I have had my bubble broken by some reading I ran into this evening. Not knowing anything about it I googled Federal Ord Inc of El Monte Ca only to read some posts from other forums stating that this particular action is JUNK. However I was led to believe this was a good unit built in 1954 with US military parts and that the barrel, and trigger group was Springfield Armory. In fact a SA-F8535448 4 54 A211B can be seen on the barrel when the bolt is open. The stock is very nice and appears to be old and is a very dark walnut. I hate to think I didn't make a wise move here, but I trust the folks on this forum to tell the straight skinney on this. If it is not such a wise move I may be able to undo it if I move quickly. I paid $700 for the rifle. What do you think?

[Hip's Ax]

Yeah, the aftermarket cast receivers have a very bad reputation. If you can take it back and get your money back. If not and this one works enjoy it.

You can get a real Garand from the CMP for 4 or 5 hundred. The higher the price the better the barrel is.

The old adadge is no powders slower than 4064 and no bullets heavier than 175 grains in the M1. IMR 4895 and a 150 grain ball bullet or a 168 grain match bullet is the most popular M1 fodder. Don't shoot commercial ammo.

Not sure about your powder, read here. http://njhighpower.com/cart_tech.htm

To learn about Garands go here, they have had a few server change overs recently so the number of posts isn't want it use to be yet but this is THE M1 Garand web forum.

http://www.jouster.com/forums/

Maybe I'm spoiled by buying my M1's from the CMP but that is a lot of money for a Garand let alone one with an aftermarket receiver.

Hope this helps.

[sqlbullet]

If you are a US Citizen, then the CMP would be a better option. For $700 you could have a Service Grade Springfield or HRA M1 + 192 rounds of surplus ammo already loaded in clips. Boxer primed and reloadable too.

I have two Garands from the CMP, as well as a bunch of ammo, and have been very happy with my guns. If you can return the one you bought, I probably would. If not, it shoots well, and you were happy with it until someone told you otherwise, so ignore us and have fun.

Get a Hornady reloading manual. They have a Garand specific section. The issue is NOT the action being strong enough, it is the gas port pressure. Too much gas port pressure and you may damage your Op-Rod.

The general rules above are good guidelines for jacketed bullets. For cast bullets, different rules apply. Lead bullets generate different pressure curves than jacketed bullets due to different resistance to moving down the bore.

BobS load (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showpost.php?p=312730&postcount=15) is popular for the Garand. I use this recipe with a Lee 200 grain bullet and have been very happy, except for the cost of the gas check. I am going to experiment with a plain base 200 grain from a Lee mold and see if I can maintain good results. Also going to load up some rounds with Unique, and try my Garand as a straight pull bold action.

[spqrzilla]

It is a bit subjective, but H380 is a bit slower in burn rate than I'd normally use for a Garand.

[Hip's Ax]

Wow! Haven't been to the CMP site in a while. Apparently a Garand is 5 or 6 hundred now! :(

[jonk]

While a 'Grand' rifle, it is spelled 'Garand' after the inventor. Not being pedantic just to be pedantic, but if you are searching for info, you'll find more if you spell it right.

I might pay $300 for a cast receiver after market gun but at $700 you were fleeced. If you can, take it back. If not, i'd see if I could find a proper USGI reciever and swap out parts, or just sell it for whatever you can.

Or, you could shoot some mild cast loads through it, you shouldn't get in any trouble there.

[Lead Fred]

Find a SA receiver, and if your barrel is 50% worn, get a new one.
Use the rest of your stuff. I see them all over the place for under $200.

[smoked turkey]

Just wanted to get back and say I really appreciate the good input on my Garand (thanks jonk!). I spoke to the guy at the gun store about it. He is willing to take it back in the form of reselling it for me. I really would rather have a Springfield Armory receiver when its all said and done. I did check on CMP site and did notice what they offer. I also noticed that there is about a 6 month waiting period. I will probably look into that. My particular rifle seems to shoot pretty good and it is in good condition. The rifling looks deep and is in excellent condition. The bolt assemble and the trigger group along with the barrel is stamped with SA and lots of long numbers. So I am confident that the rifle is SA with exception of the Fed Ordinance receiver. I may look into what it would cost to purchase a SA receiver and transfer all my parts to it. What little I have shot it was very awesome. It has a terrific feel and is a pleasure to shoot. I have a lot of learning to do. Thanks again.

[sqlbullet]

Don't let the 6-month advertised wait put you off. Most guys on the CMP forum are reporting 30 days from order receipt to delivery right now. The CMP advertises worst case timelines to keep support calls to a minimum.

Apparently we Garand lovers are anxious to see our new toys.

[bruce drake]

"I spoke to the guy at the gun store about it. He is willing to take it back in the form of reselling it for me."

Sounds like the SOB better give you your money up front because he's trying to fleece you again. If you don't get your money back when you return the rifle, He'll put a consignment sign on the rifle and you won't see your money until it get's sold to someone who isn't familiar with the National Ordnance Reciever issues.

Bruce

[Pirate69]

Federal Ordnance actions have more of a bad rep between the purist than the average shooter. In fact the Springfield Armory investment cast actions have a bad rep among the purists when compared to the original Garand forged actions. I don't have a Fed Ord Garand Action but I have a Fed Ord action on one of my M1As. That rifle gets the bulk of the the abuse. It has as chrome lined barrel and it is my go-to rifle when I want to play and heat up a barrel. I have never had any problems with the rifle. It takes all the abuse I and my friends can feed. Scoped, I will hold 1.5" 100yd groups where the M1A Loaded rifles will hold 0.75" to 1".

I won't comment on price because you paid what you felt it was worth at the time. However, try to find an original Garand in the condition of the Fed Ord on the gunrack and see what they are asking for it. Your Fed Ord may look like a great deal in that situation. CMP is also a great deal once you qualify. But if you don't, you pay market price. If you decide not to get rid of it, it will probable serve you very well. Sounds like it is functioning well. Almost every Garand I have purchased from the CMP has required a little tuning to get them running well. Don't feel bad about your purchase.

But do pay attention to your ammo. Using the wrong ammo will beat it to death and that will not be the rifles fault. You can bend the operating rod or worse, crack the back of the receiver or crack the bolt.

[smoked turkey]

Pirate69, I appreciate your comments regarding the Federal Ordnance rifles you have. I suspect that like anything else, some are better than others and the one I have does seem to function just like it is supposed to. I really made my 12 year old grandson's day today when I told him about it and he cranked off five of the eight rounds in the clip. To say he loved every minute of it is an understatement. I have tried to find handloads in my stash that are compatible with it. I will probably look onto the CMP program because I cannot find one around here for the prices some are reporting. In fact they had a 1944 SA with bayonnet next to the Fed Ord and asking price was $1200. That is why I went for the Fed Ord. I admit though that all the negative feedback I have received has affected the way I feel about the rifle. I do value the opinion of folks here on the forum. I realize some are not speaking about what they know, but what they have heard others say. All in all though its not a SA and that is probably what I will have to get in order to be happy. Thanks again.

[Chamfered]

I've had some experiance with Garands, including CMP's and a very rough Blue Sky (Korean Reimport), and have also fiddled with many bargain guns over the years, so my opinion is not completly unfounded in this area. You say it functioned fine and shot 2 inches without any reloading work up... I say put together some proper reloads for it, and enjoy it. Whats the worst you think you got took for? Surely no more than $100 bucks at the most, and if someone knows where I can get a $600 Garand, Fed Ord or not please let me know, I'll take two. Yes you can get a fair deal through the CMP, and I recommend you look into doing that, it would give you an extra one for that grandson someday. Shoot and enjoy this one for a while, you already have one memory with it is sounds like, and thats at least worth the difference you may have thought you paid.

[shotman]

hey lets be honest here Winchester receivers is junk too but they are getting the highest prices.
Smoke turkey I would keep the rifle the receiver is fine IF you watch your loads
You said 4ft rt front that is a good load If it were 10ft right way too hot
M2 ball is about 6ft 2 oclock. There is many ways to load for them but remember it is a gas operated so the light cast loads will get the gas port dirty fast
2in is good with a rifle you have never shot its not a one hole gun
stick a jacket150 gr in muzzle there should be about 3/16in between where it stops and the brass

[Pirate69]

Smoked Turkey,
A work of warning!!!! The Fed Ord that you do not feel should not be in your gun cabinet will grow on you. You will slowly find it does everything you want it to do and you can't make it quit. You will find that you pick it up rather than one of your "better" rifles because you enjoy it. If it stays around long, it will never leave.

[smoked turkey]

Boy! I have received some very good input on my original inquiry. You all are a wealth of information. I appreciate each and every post on this. Folks here are awesome. I am definitely hooked. The solid feel, the recoil level is just right, and even the way it goes BOOM is unique to anything else I shoot. My 12 year old grandson is a pretty good shot, but somewhat recoil sensitive shot it without any trouble. Chamfered thanks for your post about my grandson..I read it to him. He thought it was great ofcourse. My next step is to work up some good loads which are kind to the rifle. I am thinking of something like 43 gr. IMR 4064/168 gr. BTHP. I will keep my eyes open for a good SA receiver rifle. Thanks again for helping me with this situation.

[Pirate69]

That is a good load but can be pricey in my book. I shoot the demilled or bulk 150 grain FMJ and pulled military powder, if you can find it. Pat's Reloading is a good place to look for cheap components. GoldenWest Bullets is another. Gives me a lot of bangs for my money as I practice. And I do need to practice!!

[JIMinPHX]

Wow! Haven't been to the CMP site in a while. Apparently a Garand is 5 or 6 hundred now! :(

I was going to ask you where you were finding the $400 Garands. I haven't seen any of them (that were usable) in a long time.

[OBXPilgrim]

I am thinking of something like 43 gr. IMR 4064/168 gr. BTHP.

Don't put off trying some H4895 with the 168gr jacketed. Haven't seen a Garand yet that didn't like it.

Your H380 burning rate is close to Win 760/H414. H414 was what the "expert" told me to use when I first got mine & was getting into Highpower in the mid 80's. Ended up bending the edge of the rim on a load of new brass.

H4895 for me.

[Pirate69]

A Shuster is a good way to protect the rifle and expand the type of ammo that you can shoot. But it is $40.

[Crash_Corrigan]

Or you could load up some Lyman 311284's over 30 gr of 4064 and have a low recoiling rifle that will give you a lot of fun at a low price.

[mroliver77]

If you can qualify(it dont take much) the cmp has HXP surplus ammo for a decent price. It is very good ammo with reloadable brass. As has been said, Pats reloading has FMJ projectiles at a decent price. The are resized from .311 Ruskie bullets. I have a bunch and have been very surprized by how accurate they are for cheapo bullets.
I have read the bad reports on some Fed Ord receivers but have no experience with them. I have a cast receiver M1A that is a dandy. I would shoot the gun and if issues ever arise get a "real" receiver for it.
Do a little research on loading for the Garand. The Shuster gas plug is a neat trick too. It relieves some of the gas pressure going into the gas system so as to soften the blow to the op rod and associated parts.
CMP website has some good info for servicing your rifle and a good forum. You need to GREASE the moving parts of the ole girl as oil will not hang on the operating parts.
Jay
Jay

[JKH]

smoked turkey,

If it were my rifle I would'nt bother changing the receiver, you wont find one for $100 anymore, and by time you pay a smith or and RKI with the proper tools to do the job, you will have at least another $300 to $400 invested in the rifle, you will be way upside down in value at that point.

It appears from you're limited use of the rifle so far that it functions properly, have you had the headspace checked? If not, find someone who has guages and see what she reads (make sure they know how to do it, stripped bolt, no op-rod, clean chamber, etc.).
If the headspace checks out and you have no functionality issues, then leave it be and enjoy it! Down the road you may be able to pick up another full USGI rifle for a reasonable amount and then you can pass this one down to you're grandson or peddle it to pay for the new one.

I'm willing to bet you would have a lifetime of good shooting with this rifle as is, proper loads and proper maintenance and you will be just fine, SHOOT THAT RIFLE AND HAVE FUN!!! :^ )

Jeff

[Pirate69]

"I'm willing to bet you would have a lifetime of good shooting with this rifle as is, proper loads and proper maintenance and you will be just fine, SHOOT THAT RIFLE AND HAVE FUN!!! :^ )"

If you look back though the last posts; the above is the message. Will my five digit Garands do any more than your Fed Ord? I doubt it? Will your Fed Ord out shot my five digit Garands? Good chance. The message here is "Enjoy your rifle as long as you please". If you advertise it for $600 down the road, Ibet it on't take long to sell.

[smoked turkey]

Pirate69 can I ask what is a Shuster? I looked at Garand stuff in Midway the other day and saw that they have a replacement cap that apparently allows some adjustment for different pressures generated by different (heavier vs ligher) loads. Is that what you are referring to? Seems like a good device to have. Are there any negative issues with using such a device? Thanks.

[mroliver77]

Exactly what the shuster gas plug is. I have never seen anything negative exept mebbe one poster said he would not run one as there is a small hole to vent gases out and mebbe dirt could enter gas system. My M1A has a stock hole in the gas system and I never seen anybody worry much over it. I run a shuster plug in my M14S and plan on more for othe M14type and Garands. I figure if an emergency situation arose I could shoot most any ammo for the caliber.
Jay

[Pirate69]

Unless you have it set where it will not allow the bolt to cycle, I can not think how it can hurt anything. See description below.


Shuster M1 Adjustable Gas Plug

Made from hardened tool steel and parkerized. Service rifle legal! Has the same appearance and configuration as original; CMP 4th Edition #4-13-2-b. By adjusting the volume of gas in the cylinder you change the speed of the op-rod and the harmonics of the barrel. If you want to tame things down, it can be opened up just enough to function, or opened fully for single shot functionality. If you are working on your own hand loads, a quarter turn WILL affect group size. If you have a .308 Garand this is a necessity if you want to safely shoot heavier match bullets - 168 gr. Also a must have if you hunt with your CMP Garand but want to shooter heavier .30-06 loads. This is sold as new including instructions and the adjusting tool (allen wrench).

[leadman]

I would keep the rifle and inspect the reciever closing during cleaning for any problems developing. Something that should be done anyway.
I use 38 grains of H4895 with pulled military 174gr. match bullets. Accurate, 100% functioning and reduced recoil. I use this in 200 yard military matches.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks leadman for the info. I will inspect the receiver for any unusual wear, cracks, etc. I do have a question regarding closing the locked back bolt properly. I was told and in fact shown when I purchased the rifle how "to close it". The guy in the store placed the heel of his right hand on the bolt handle and eased it back enough to push down the bolt retaining piece (I'm not sure what to actually call it)..he then eased the bolt forward enough to clear the retainer and then raised his hand quickly to get out of the way of the closing bolt letting the bolt slam shut into battery. I am asking because this seems to put quite a force on the front of the receiver. Seems a more gentle approach would be better. Oh yes I already know of the mashed finger if you don't get out of the way in time. My middle fingernail is half blue. It doesn't hurt too bad anymore! Do you or anyone else have a way to close the bolt that is not so punishing on the front of the receiver? Thanks for the load info on theH4895. I have a few pounds of IMR3031 and no H4895. I was hoping to find a satisfactory load with the 3031. If not, no problem I can always use more powder.

[Pirate69]

The Garand is equipped with an operating spring that was designed to strip the next round from the clip, drive it into the chamber and rotate the bolt to lock it in without damaging the action. The stripping of the round from the clip will slow the velocity of the bolt somewhat and it will not slam like releasing the bolt without a round being chambered. I have never heard that releasing without a round will harm the action and there is a way to do it with the use of one hand. But I nornally release it without slamming. I guess it is just preference.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I pull back the bolt handle with the right hand and hold it then I push down on the magazine follower with the left hand until I can gently move the bolt handle forwards under control of the right hand. At no time do I release the bolt handle from the right hand and once it is free to move I remove any parts of my left hand from danger. Using this method I can close the bolt very gently and it is always under control. It ain't fast but it works for me.

I have yet to suffer from M-1 Thumb but I have come close a couple of times. I also keep a short length of wooden dowel handy when messing with the Garand. I risk the dowel not my body parts and I have not even marred the dowel yet.

I learned early on the value of proper lubrication of the innards of the Garand. If it is kept properly lubricated with a quality grease the insertion of a full clip of ammo is easy and fast. IF NOT LUBED RIGHT IT BECOMES A CHORE AND THAT IS WHEN YOU MAY GET THE DREADED M-1 THUMB.

It is a great rifle and fun to shoot and load for..........just enjoy it.

[Pirate69]

The IMR 3031 is pretty fast for a Garand. It is at the top of the fast end of powders suggested for a Garand. The published literature says, "Of those powders (numerous suggested) IMR 4895, H4895, & IMR 4064 are the most popular as they most closely duplicate the powders originally used by the military, but any that fall between IMR 4064 & IMR 4895 on the burn rate chart will produce good results." Hope this helps.

[smoked turkey]

Sure does help. Thanks for input on proper closing of bolt and proper powder burn rates. I am inventoring my bullets and powder now to see what I have so I know what I need to buy. I think the dowel trick to hold the bolt back is one I will do when applying grease/cleaning, etc. Once on my finger is enough for me! Thanks again.

[Echo]

I hear the old-timers would pop their left thumb into the mag well to depress the follower and allow the bolt to go into battery. Pop in and out, in a hurry. I bet, in a hurry. I never tried it, NOR WILL I!

[Pirate69]

Echo,
The secret is holding back the bolt handle with the heel your hand when you depress the follower. It is impressive to see someone do it. It is a hoot to see them jump when they get the Garand Thumb!!

[Lead Fred]

My standard M1 load:

152gr BTAP
48gr IMR-4895
CCI #34 hvy primers
LC brass 1972

Can shoot these all day long, and they all go to the same place @ 2660fps

I also believe in the Halbrook device. Named for John Halbrook, friend and M1 Garand expert for longer than I have been alive.

The device changes a few things in the M1, the enbloc does not eject until you hit the side button. You can feed individual rounds and refill a partial enbloc.

I would never use a gas plug system in my M1, Never.

[Pirate69]

Lead Fred,
Why would you never us a gas plug system?

[Lead Fred]

The cyclic rate was made to use a small range of ammo.
My M1 works great inside that range.

Ive talked to McCann and others about thier gas plug systems and there still is a chance for op rod damage.

I have a match op rod, that has been in it since I rebarreled it in 05. The one I took out was the original.

I can hit a car battery at 300 yards, standing. I dont need anything more from this firearm.

[JKH]

smoked turkey,

I sense a bit of trepidation on you're part concerning this M1, I highly recomend that you go to the battlerifle forums (just type in battlerifles.com and it will redirect you) and peruse the M1 forum's at length, also go to odcmp.org (CMP - Civilian Marksmanship Program) and study all the info in their library about the M! and in particular you need to download and throughly read the CMP's manual they send with each garand they sell, it is a tremendous wealth of information and is geared towards helping the neophyte M1 owner on how to safely handle and care for the grand old garand.

The heel of the hand on the op-rod handle and depressing the follower with the thumb is THE proper way to release the bolt, you are actually pushung the follower down with the middle of the bottom of you're thumb, NOT tip down! As the bolt flys forward if you dont lift you're thumb fast enough the bolt just slides under it and pushes it up (keep the thumb well arched with tip UP). Dont worry about hurting you're garand, its a battle rifle that was designed to operate precisely in this manner, it will NOT damage it in any way. Stud the CMP manual and you will be fine.

Adjustable gas nuts do have a place in shooting the M1, BUT, it is still taking it outside of its design paramiters and not necessarily a good idea, autoloaders are designed around specific loads so that that functional issues like "dwell time" and such come in to play as well as port pressure, pressure curves and pressure time which all effect function and how much abuse is applyed to the rifle above what it was designed for. The M1 is happiest running loads within a fairly narrow spectrum of bullet weight and powder speed and is best run within those ranges. Shooting cast boolits is an exception to the rule because of the tremendous difference in the coeficient of friction between jacketd bullets and lead, MUCH less friction with lead and this drastically changes how the powder burn is effected and allows the use of powders that with jacketed bullets could potentially damage the rifle, although some care still needs to be followed and it is best to follow the load recommendations of Bruce B and other sage men like Bob S in particular. One thing though to remember; shooting a FEW factory sporting rounds or handloads with jacketed bullets that are to heavy or with powders to slow, etc. will not instantly render you're garand into worthless junk, it takes a fair amount of abuse to damage an op-rod with any sane loads or factory fodder, not that it cant be done but the occasional use of atypical ammo isnt going to kill it.

Find the CMP manual first thing and READ, READ, READ!!! then read all the CMP sites library of information (take down procedures, LUBING, etc. as well as articles on accurising, sighting in, LOAD INFORMATION, etc.), then report back soldier! ;^ )

I hope I havent come off to strong but only wish to bring you up to speed, done follow heresay, get the right information and you will be loving that rifle for many years to come.

Jeff

[smoked turkey]

Jeff:
Absolutely not as far as coming off too strong. I am needing all of the sage advice I have been getting here. I appreciate your comments. Yes you are correct that I have some trepidation with the Garand. I do want to be kind to it with my care, maintenance, and ammo I handload for it. I did start reading the manual you stated on the CMP web site. I need to learn how to strip it down and take care of it properly. I would like to shoot cast in it but at the moment I think I will stick with j-bullets and IMR 4895 as that is pretty standard. I was planning on the variable gas plug but based on some of the comments I am going to rethink that. It has been my experience that when one deviates from "factory" parts that other things might be affected. I have no doubt that the device works as it is supposed to but I can achieve what I want to do by staying in that narrow band of acceptable loads without any problems to the rifle. Later after I get some experience I may branch out to cast and different loading.
Lead Fred thanks for your load info. Looks good to me. I was thinking along those lines. At the moment I only have commercial brass so that is probably what I will use. However, my son has some old military ammo with corrosive primers he has offered to me. My plan is to pull the bullets replace the primers with new and reload the powder and bullet. Is that a plan or should I dump the powder and load with new? Thanks for all the help.

[Linstrum]

Here's a famous World War Two cartoon with a depiction of a ground pounder cleaning and inspecting his Garand in the field.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/warletters/gallery/gal_warletters_07.html

The author/cartoonist is a former neighbor born and raised in Mountain Park, just up the hill from me here in Alamogordo, New Mexico. His name was Bill Mauldin, author of the famous Willie and Joe cartoons published in Stars and Stripes during World War Two. He drew deep praise from General Dwight Eisenhower and the relentless wrath of General George Patton. Eisenhower was Patton's boss and got him off Mauldin's back when Patton threatened to have Mauldin court martialed for his work.

The Garand receiver is extremely complex and difficult to machine, and because of the extraordinary complex and involved machining operations it takes to manufacture them on highly specialized one of a kind original World War Two milling equipment, the civilian receivers were only made by one or possibly two manufacturers that were willing to go ahead and take the time and spend the very large amount of money it takes to put a Garand receiver manufacturing facility into full operation. So it isn't possible for a bunch of shoddy fly-by-night outfits to make Garand receivers.

My local gun shop had a civilian Garand last year and the store owner researched who made the receiver and found one company that made them and M1A receivers for Springfield Armory, Inc. The same company was also making receivers for the Ruger Mini-14. What he came up with is that in the mid-1980s some of the original personnel who ran the World War Two manufacturing facilities were enticed out of retirement to get the bugs worked out of making them and the new investment cast civilian receivers are at least equal to the originals and perhaps better because of better metallurgy nowadays compared to the 1940s. I have a Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A National Match Grade that I bought in 1984 and I haven't had any sign of problems in the receiver in 26 years. I had a stainless steel Ruger mini-14 for a few years and I didn't have any trouble with it, either.

The only substandard receivers were the “re-welds” that were reclaimed from receivers that were declared surplus and cut in two.


rl802

[Pirate69]

............and the new investment cast civilian receivers are at least equal to the originals and perhaps better because of better metallurgy nowadays compared to the 1940s.

It may not happen here but, on some forums, this statement would be a declaration of war. I can't disagree with the statement. I think they are pretty good also.

[Linstrum]

Yep! I figured those might be fightin' words before I hit the "submit" button.

I have three Garands made in 1944 and 1945, and I don't have any problem with the original Garands at all.

They are one tough rifle judging from what General Julian Hatcher said about them in his definitive book "Hatcher's Notebook". Hatcher was there when the Garand was put through all sorts of tests, as I recall up to something like 120,000 psi c.u.p. using Bullseye powder that melted and vaporized the cartridge head, and bent and cracked the locking lugs on the bolt. Again as I recall (I don't have my copy of "Hatcher's" handy to look it up), that rifle had a new bolt installed and it was put through a lot more firing of standard ball ammo without problems. Something like a thousand rounds more after the attempted blow up. Maybe somebody with a copy of "Hatcher's Notebook" could look it up to get the exact numbers.

But the bigger picture is that the Garand is one tough rifle.

The only thing I know of that needs to be watched for, outside of making sure the loads are in the correct pressure-time curve to prevent possible damage to the operating rod, is some bolts have an ejector that is slightly too long and will put a slight dent in the primer of ejected unfired cartridges. My first Garand did that and I swapped ejectors with another bolt I had to solve the problem. After swapping ejectors with the other bolt, neither bolt dented primers. I never had it fire a cartridge out of battery because of that. If a bolt has that problem it is real obvious and if you don't have another bolt, remove the ejector and stone a few thousandths of an inch at a time from the ejector tip until it no longer puts a dent into a live primer. A hard Arkansas stone should work fine for the job.


rl804

[lonewelder]

I had a FED ORD M1A and it shot good.It took a couple 100rds for the trigger group to match up with the bolt.But once it was broken in it was ok.Every part was GI,but the reciever.I can tell now the diff in the real deal but,I put some pretty hot loads through it in the break-in process and it was no worse for wear.By the way a family member still owns and shoots this rifle .

[Bullet Caster]

Nothing like responding to a very old thread...but I will anyway (if not for the members then for the readers of old threads wanting to increase their knowledge). Now for my 2 cents worth. I am a former Marine Corps sarge and I have an M1 Garand made in May of 1942. I bought it for $350.00 plus tax out the door back in the 1980's. It is completely Springfield Armory, even the national match op rod. I have a friend with an M1 Garand made in 1939 but it has a very poor bore. The rifling has just about been shot out of it. Mine, on the other hand, has an almost new bore, it really shoots accurate with factory ammunition. Now when I was in the USMC, we had to fire the M-14 at the rifle range. When we would draw weapons from the armory we had to clean each rifle for about 1 hr. and LUBERPLATE the bolt, lugs, rails the bolt rides in and a little smear on the hammer before we were allowed to use the rifle. The armorer would spot check a rifle to ensure that it was properly LUBERPLATED before it went to the range. I know a lot of folks that don't take this into account and go fire a dry rifle. That's the worst thing you could possibly do to your rifle except for not cleaning it after firing especially if corrosive primers are used in your ammunition.
I recently found my tube of Luberplate and now it resides in my shooters bag (range bag). I use it on my M1 Garand lubing the same places that I learned to lube on an M-14. I also use it on my AK-47 on the rails, bolt, bolt carrier, and hammer. I also shoot corrosive primers in my AK-47 and it always gets cleaned with hot soap 'n water, dried and then oiled with a light gun oil like Remington Gun Oil with teflon. It has been proven that the teflon oil actually penetrates the surface of metal parts and I do the same cleaning on any weapon I have shot. You could never turn in an uncleaned weapon to the armory. You cleaned it well and to the armorers specifications.
I've been a member here now for a few months and there is a wealth of information here on this forum for oldies and newbies alike. I will begin to reload cast in my M1 Garand at the first of the year in 2012. I will attempt the 155 grain .312 Lee for the 7.62x39 over about 32 grains of IMR 4895 and a dacron filler since the 4895 is position sensitive to the primer. If I don't use the dacron filler then I must remember to raise the rifle straight up in the air before returning to the next firing position.
Now as far as opening the bolt of an M1 Garand from port arms, you are holding the rifle by your left hand with the muzzle pointed to the port side (left) with your right hand on the small of the stock on the top. On the command of "inspection arms" you release your left hand and grab the bolt lever with the front of the extended thumb you move the bolt to the rear until it locks and then look down into the chamber to make sure it is not loaded, then return your left hand back under the bottom of the rear handguard. You're at inspection arms and the only command that can be given at this point is back to port arms.
After the command "port arms" you release the M1 with your right hand holding it in your left hand under the rear handguard, and taking your right hand with the knife blade section of your right hand held stiff, you hold back the bolt and dip your thumb of your right hand to press the follower down to release the bolt and extract your hand promptly or you WILL get an M1 thumb. I went to a military school when I was in the 9th grade and learned to do close order drill with the M1 rifle. I nearly got my right hand broken when in the USMC the first time I was given "parade rest" because the Army ROTC drill ain't the same in the USMC. In the army you stick the muzzle forward when coming to parade rest. In the USMC you keep the rifle next to your right leg held at your waist. Didn't take me long to learn it the Marine Corps way. Hope this may help a newcomer. BC

[madsenshooter]

Here's a famous World War Two cartoon with a depiction of a ground pounder cleaning and inspecting his Garand in the field.

A now departed friend of mine was a Sgt in WWII. He told me that when he was in basic, they'd clean and clean their rifles. The Sgt would take a quick look and hand them back "dirty, get it clean". After many such sessions the Corporal gave up the secret. He looks for cosmoline or lint in the slot above the front sight dovetail. Problem solved, of course the Sgt probably knew someone had let them know.

[smoked turkey]

I saw that this old thread had been resurrected. It was good reading it again after all this time has passed. I took the old M1 out a couple of weeks ago and ran a few 8 round clips through her. It is a shooting experience that every shooter should enjoy at least once. If you ever do it the first time it won't be the last!

[shotman]

the MC sucked, we had white uniforms and you kept muzzle away from side to keep the black off you uniform. We didnt use the blank divise and had to hand eject the blanks. And yes to lubeplate we used ? LSA ? still have several OD bottles

[BoolitSchuuter]

I saw that this old thread had been resurrected. It was good reading it again after all this time has passed. I took the old M1 out a couple of weeks ago and ran a few 8 round clips through her. It is a shooting experience that every shooter should enjoy at least once. If you ever do it the first time it won't be the last!

I spent most of this past year building one for my SIL. he's a Capt. in the 101st. got back from Afghanistan in april. Him and my daughter are moving from Ft. Campbell to Ft. Benning in about 3 weeks.
The receiver is an SA forged in March 1943, front/rear match sights, NM marked op rod, bedded and front handguard glued and screwed. The stock has 8 hand rubbed coats of real tung oil applied, and final coated with Olympic oil finish to seal it. I let it sit for 6 weeks before I finished with rubbing compound to knock down the semi gloss finish. loaded up 100 rounds of my match ammo (Win brass, 47.5gr H4895, WLR primer, 155gr Nosler HPBTM) for him and gave him the rifle and ammo for christmas.
I'd do one every year for christmas just to see that look on his face again. He takes it with him when they go to see friends. I know he's gone thru most of the ammo already. I told him I'd load the cases again before they go back, but after that he buys his own!!!

:happy dance:

[400short]

Thats an OUTSTANDING gift bulletshuuter. Greasing these old gas guns up is a must, but lubra-plate is pretty much unobtainium around here so I use engine assembly grease. Its a little stiffer and dries out quickly, but if I keep the gun as clean as I should its not an issue. I had my U.S. Rifle converyted to .308 for match use and used it for years across the course before converting to AR.

[hydraulic]

We had our family Christmas late, this year, and I just got home. My last two boxes of hxp was wrapped up for the grandson. He has always had an affection for my old DCM H&R, and two years ago when he was deployed to Iraq I told him if he would get his rear back home all in one piece the rifle was his. He came back all in one piece last year.

[hydraulic]

We had our family Christmas late, this year, and I just got home. My last two boxes of hxp were wrapped and put under the tree for the grandson. He has always had an affection for my old DCM H&R, and two years ago when he was deployed to Iraq I told him if he would get his rear back home all in one piece the rifle was his. He came back all in one piece last year.

[smoked turkey]

What an awesome thing to do for your SIL BoolitSchuuter and grandson hydraulic. I'd say they were elated. I am thankful they made it back home OK. Sounds like you put your heart and soul into finishing the Garand for your SIL BoolitSchuuter. I wish mine was that nice.
I have realized after re-reading this thread that I need to put some grease on mine. I knew to do that but confess I haven't in a while. I'll be sure and do that before shooting her again.

[skeet1]

smoked turkey,
As other have said, I would just shoot that rifle and enjoy it. I passed up a good deal on and National Ord. 03A3 a while back and have been kicking myself ever since. Just because the action is cast does not mean there is anything wrong with it, after all Ruger actions are cast. The only thing is a purest wouldn't like it because it is not original G.I. As other have said get the head space checked and watch you fired brass to make sure you headspace doesn't increase. I bet that it wont.