Powder Experience I need some help.

[robertbank]

There is an old gun shop in town with some old 1lb canisters of powder I can get fairly cheap. I load the following:

9MM
.45acp
.38spl/.357 mag
.30-30
.30-06
.45 Colt

Here are the powders. Some I recognize some I don't:
Red Dot
Green Dot
Blue Dot
*Norma R1
*Hodgdon HP 38
*Win 571
*Win 630
*Win 680
IMR 4227
*5066

Any comments you can make for using these powders for any of the above calibers would be appreciated.

Take Care

Bob

[David R]

Red Dot, 13.5 grains behind a 311407. My favorite load for my '06.

Green dot, similar to red dot, I never used it.

Blue dot....Good stuff for the magnums.

HP38...Good peestol powder Similar to Bullseye

571 worked great as magnum powder in my 20 guage.

IMR4227 good reduced load cast rifle powder and peestol magnum powder.

the rest I don't know enough about.

David

It its cheap like $5.00 a pound, buy it all you will use it.

[klausg]

Bob- Sorry I can't be more help, but of the calibers listed the only one I have enough experience to feel qualified to comment on is .38/.357 and I generally load almost nothing but Unique there with cast. I have used some Red Dot, but the accuracy just wasn't there, compared with the Unique @ least. I've used Blue Dot a lot in other calibers (.44 Mag) and been very happy; same with Red Dot (.32 H&R). Hope this kinda helps, take care

-Klaus

[NVcurmudgeon]

Robert, I am addressing only the cartridges and powders from your list that I have experience with.

5066 Du Pont's answer to Bullseye, good pistol target powder, discontinued in
1960 or so.
HP38 Winchester 231 in a different package, my current favorite for .45 ACP
and .38 Special
Green Dot Excellent for light cast loads in .30/06 and .303, also .44 Magnum both
rifle and pistol
4227 Good cast bullet powder for .30/30 and .30/06

[felix]

BlueDot is probably the most universal for your guns. Might not work with the 9mm, but worth a try if someone on the board can say so from experience. ... felix

[robertbank]

Great guys. You all just cost me some bucks. LOL

I will be getting the ones on this thread that have been quoted.

Anybody have any experience with Norma R1? I think it said on the canister it was a pistol powder.

Edit: Found R1 listed in a burning rate table. Said to be close to Clays Int and a bit faster than Bullseye. May work up some loads . Looks like I will be buying all of it but the Win 630 at I can't seem to find any data at all for it.

Take Care and thanks again. Anyone wants to post some favourite loads for these powders in the calibers listed feel free.

Bob

[felix]

No, Bob, get the 630 also. An excellent 357 hot powder. ... felix

[StarMetal]

I have some data for the 630, but it's for the 38/45 wildcat. It's a hot powder like Felix said. You might get an idea from comparing it with other powders that are in the same data that are still currently made. I'll have to look it up. I may have some old Winchester powder manuals.

Joe

[grumpy one]

Edit: Found R1 listed in a burning rate table. Said to be close to Clays Int and a bit faster than Bullseye.
Bob

Bob, I believe you'll find that Norma R1 is quite a bit faster than Clays, which is actually slower than Bullseye. R1 is in fact the only powder I've heard of that is faster than Bullseye. You can get some comparison from this site:
http://www.adi-limited.com/handloaders-guide/equivalents.asp


I used R1 throughout my long-ago (1960s) pistol shooting involvement, which was the IPSU centerfire competition - 30 shots one-hand-slow-fire and 30 shots duelling (25 metre silhouette, one hand, point at ground, you get three seconds to aim and fire after the target turns toward you). If you wanted to figure anywhere in the serious rankings you used a short-action K38 in 38 Special or, for a very few of us eccentrics, a Brno ZKR551, which was simply a 38 Special revolver specifically made to get the best possible results while (barely) meeting the IPSU rules. People who were happy with B grade or below used Pythons and things.

The point in all this rambling is that just about everyone who did any good, used Norma R1 exclusively. In a K38 or ZKR it would shoot one hole at 25 metres (from a rest), and it left almost zero residue - club-owned pistols were never cleaned, and were pretty clean-looking except for some lead and lube around the forcing cones, and a very slight bit of generalised gray that wiped off the shiny parts. The powder charge was 2.1 grains as I recall, with hollow-base swaged pure lead wadcutters. Forty years later R1 is still the fastest powder around, and might well still be the cleanest, and perhaps the most economical.

Geoff

[Johnch]

*Win 571 was also sold as Hodgdon HS-7

Johnch

[RayinNH]

Robert, here's a burn rate chart that will give you some idea as to speed. Burn rate charts vary but this will get you started in the right direction.http://home.hiwaay.net/~stargate/powder/powder.htm (http://home.hiwaay.net/%7Estargate/powder/powder.htm)...Ray

6 grs. Red Dot in the .45 Colt with 250-255 gr. boolit

[StarMetal]

Grumpy one,

The Clays that I have is alot faster then Bullseye.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Okay found my Winchester manual. Let's start with the 9mm...115 gr jacketed 10.5 grs for 1125 fps..at 27,000 psi., 38 special...148 gr WC 5.5 to 6.9 grs for 825 to 925 fps at 11,000 to 15,000 psi....150 gr lead 8.5 grs for 910 fps at 12,000 psi...158 gr lead 8.1 grs for 900 fps at 13,000 psi., 200 gr lead 7.2 grs for 790 fps at 13,000 psi. 357 mag 110 gr JHP 16.3 grs for 1770 fps at 41,000 (whew sounds hot to me) 148 WC 6.1 grs for 880 fps at 14,500 psi, 150 gr lead 14.0 for 1560 fps at 42,000 psi (another one up there) 158 gr jacketed 13.8 grs for 1500 fps at 39,000 psi., 158 gr lead 13.1 grs for 1480 at 39,500 psi, 200 gr lead 10.8 grs for 1270 at 45,000 psi (whew again). 45acp 185 gr wc 10.0 to 11.5 grs for 790 and 890 fps at 12,000 and 14,000 psi., 210 gr lead 9.8 to 11.5 grs for 800 to 950 fps at 12,000 and 16,000 psi, and 230 gr jacketed 10.9 grs for 840 fps at 17,000 psi.

All out of the Winchester manual of 1973. No loads for 45 Colt or rifles except 32-20.

Joe

[Bullshop]

Did sombody say 630??? OH MAN!!! wish I could get some. Its one of our favoritus #'s for the hornet. We ran out last year. Bummer!!!
BIC/BS

[grumpy one]

Grumpy one,

The Clays that I have is alot faster then Bullseye.

Joe

Joe, I've been on this board long enough to know that you know what you're
talking about. I was only quoting from the ADI site. They make Clays (AP30N under their own label) but they don't make Bullseye. I guess there is also the question of how you are going to measure the burning rate anyway, about which I know nothing.


Geoff

[robertbank]

What can I say but thanks to all who replied and to those who might yet. I'll be sure to let you guys know what I get and how much I get it for. Now I got to go into the closet and find my old Banker face and we wil see how rusty my negotiation skills are. LOL

Joe do you have a load in that manual for 124 gr lead or FMJ for the 9MM using 630?

Take Care All

bob

[StarMetal]

Bob,

Not persay, but let's look at what's there. A 115 gr takes 10.5 grs of 630. A 38 auto (not the super0 takes 9.2 grs of 630. That's at 990 fps with 19,000 psi. Now the 38 Super takes 10.0 grs of 630 for 1160 fps at 31,000 psi. I believe you could use the 38 auto load and be safe. That's 9.2 grs. Remember the 124 gr is only 9 grs heavier then the listed 115 gr and in the 38 auto the bullet is 6 grs heavier then the 124 gr you want to use. The 38 auto is a low pressure round and gun. I know the case has a tab more volume, but I believe that 9.2 gr would do for your 124 gr. Try starting at 9.0 even, load and shoot just a few, see how shoot, recoil, velocity if you have a chrono, see what the primer looks like and the case web. Go from there. Most 9mm pistols are pretty stout.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Geoff,

I had bought my Clays for loading 20 ga shotgun shells. Being I don't load much for it and the powder is sitting around I tried some in rounds like 30 luger, 7.65x25 Tokarev, and 32 acp. Notice I said mine is faster then Bullseye. Well I had some loads that were about the same as a safe Bullseye load except using the Clays, and wow...dang hot. I thinks to myself, man this lot or this stuff is faster then any Bullseyes I've ever bought. So I mentioned this so other's can be knowledgeable of it. It always pays to start low with a new powder that you're not accustom to using. Good advice for different lots of powder that you are accustomed too.

Joe

[charger 1]

There is an old gun shop in town with some old 1lb canisters of powder I can get fairly cheap. I load the following:

9MM
.45acp
.38spl/.357 mag
.30-30
.30-06
.45 Colt

Here are the powders. Some I recognize some I don't:
Red Dot
Green Dot
Blue Dot
*Norma R1
*Hodgdon HP 38
*Win 571
*Win 630
*Win 680
IMR 4227
*5066

Any comments you can make for using these powders for any of the above calibers would be appreciated.

Take Care

Bob


Just make sure it aint rotten. We sure get around huh

[Poygan]

I bought a Lyman Ammo Maker kit in the early 60s. The mold was the .452374 and the dipper was marked 5.4 grains of P-5066.

[StarMetal]

Robert,

I looked back through that Winchester manual and there was a load for the 45-70 using 630 powder. It's 405 gr softpoint using 20.5 grs of 630 for 1320 fps at 18,000 psi.

It's also a good powder for the 30 carbine. That one would be 110 gr jacketed HP using 11.5 grs at 1725 fps at 34,000 psi.

Joe

[felix]

We NEED a new generation powder (clean, etc.) that has a speed between BlueDot and 2400. That hole has been there since the demise of the 630 which does the job perfectly. ... felix