Pat's G/C Tool

[Ben]

I continue to read a lot about Freechex II and Freechex III g/c making tools.

Those tools may be great ? I can't say as I have not used one. However, I do have one of Pat's 1st Checkmaker .30 cal. g/c making tools that he made on manual machines prior to his conversion over to CNC. I've had my tool for over a yr. now.

I couldn't be happier with mine. It is a quality tool that should last me for many yrs. to come.

Photos below :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0008.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/G%20C%20s/PICT0013.jpg

[Mugs]

I'll second that.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[JeffinNZ]

No doubt but it is not a single stage process. That's the winning formula in my books. The check maker is estentially a FC original mounted in a press.

[RobS]

The freechex III is enticing as it is a one step process and I had the option to go either with Charlie’s freechex III or with Pat Marlin's checkmaker and I just recently (in the past week) chose Pat’s version. Let me start by first stating that I have the freechex II version and as the check is made it never makes contact on something solid therefore it has a very slight bow to the bottom of the check (it’s not completely flat). Looking at the videos of the Freechex III it appears it will be similar regarding this issue. As I said its not much but I have noticed that when seating it on bullets it's enough to create a loose check whereas if it is perfectly flat it doesn't.

When using the freechex II tool I have had better luck after initially forming the check with my arbor press to then go back and take the ram-mandrel (straight rod in the middle of the die) and replace the check on it, then put it on a hard piece of oak and tap the opposite end of the mandrel with a rubber mallet. This makes sure the base is flat and with that I have fewer issues with the check not fitting on the bullet shank bottom.

FWIW

[Ben]

RobS :

My checks that I'm making with Pat's tool are flat and they grip the bullet g/c shank well. My 1st attempts with .009 " thickness AL did not grip well, and were not accurate either ( when compared to Hornady factory .30 cal. g/c's ) .

The .014 " aluminum will go " toe -to - toe" in the accuracy dept. with the Hornady's on any day .

You might want to take a look at this group that I shot with my 30-06 Springfield using .014 " thickness AL, Pat Marlin Checkmaker gas checks :

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=76487

[RobS]

Ben:
Yep the Pat Marlin Checkmaker will have flat bottoms to the checks as it is designed to have the check be pressed onto a flat surface at the bottom of the press stroke. For this exact reason I chose the checkmaker vs the freechexIII.

[Ben]

I really can't say that one g/c maker tool is BETTER than the other. I'm not that knowledgeable about their differences in design, etc. All I know is that I've VERY happy with my tool just like it is.

Ben

[.30/30 Guy]

I received one of Pat's .30 caliber Checkmakers a couple of weeks ago. It is one of his CNC dies.

I am very happy with the Checkmaker. My only experience has been with the 0.014 aluminum material. The limited shooting that I have done using these check indicate that that they are at least as accurate as factory checks.

Speed wise the Checkmaker produces checks fast enough for my needs. It is not how fast you can make them, it is how well you can make them.

[PatMarlin]

...:Fire:



The check maker is estentially a FC original mounted in a press.

I want to stay totally out of the "His vs. mine" debate and I sincerely wish there is plenty of continued business for he and I long into the future.

BUT I have to address, and cannot let the above quote go- That statement is plainly false.

My Checkmaker™ design is no way comparable to his in any shape or form aside from the fact that a check is made. I could go into many reasons of how and why it is different and in my opinion a much better tool, but I will let folks do the research, and let the numerous accuracy tests results from shooters speak for themselves.

Thank you for your kindness, business, and support ....:drinks:


...:Fire:

[Lead Fred]

Pat, yours works dang well, thats all I care about

Happy as a pig in mud

[vonnieglen]

The thing that people seem to forget is that developing these systems was more complex and took much longer to perfect than what is apperant by just looking at them. I followed Pat's development process for months on this forum. I think I remember reading for instance that the cutting action in Pat's tool is at a slight angle to reduce the amount of force it takes to shear through the material. Those are the type of issues that are only solved through trial and error.

I know that many people became frustrated with the amount of time that it took for Pat to get his tool ready for others to use. But he would not release the product until he knew everything was right. Charlie's tools have gone through the same type of development process and time. I have had one of the freechex III prototypes for months despite it being released only recently. I thought it was nearly perfect, Charlie made it better before he started selling them.

Until reading these comments I had no idea that people had any issues with the quality of the finished gas checks. Before I got into the firefighting business I ran a small lumber mill, so I have been oriented towards getting the most done with the least amount of effort. I doubt whether I could tell the difference in the checks that I have made when I was in a hurry as opposed to the ones that I have made when I was just passing time. My friends and I have been very happy with the checks we have made, but I don't doubt that there are subtle differences in checks made by the different systems.

I am so thankful that we have Pat and Charlie and others who share their knowledge, and the sweat of their brow to help make it possible for all of us to have more rewarding experiences with our chosen pastime. Pat and Charlie's products are even more important to people living abroad, where ammunition is even less affordable and less available than it is here.

Saving money is wonderful but it is more than that. Isn't it wonderful to shoot cartridges made with cast bullets, homemade gas checks, and salvaged brass. All we have to do now is figure out how to make powder and primers efficiently and we will really be set.

[RobS]

...:Fire:

My Checkmaker™ design is no way comparable to his in any shape or form aside from the fact that a check is made..:Fire:

This statement is definately correct and if a person takes a bit of time and looks at how each tool works it is very apparent that there are differences.

[JeffinNZ]

Pat, what I meant was that both the Check Maker and the FC original form GC's in two processes. Cut a disc of material. Place th disc in a forming die and press/swage into shape. Please don't think that my comment was a put down because it wasn't. Just an observation.

As I said in another thread, there is no point debating which is best because the one you have and are happy with is the best one for you. Like the old question of which caliber is best or deer? The answer is the one you are holding at the time the deer appears. The bottom line is that thanks to yourself and Charlie, many, many, many shooters are able to extend their hobby and save a few bucks at the same time.

[RobS]

As I said in another thread, there is no point debating which is best because the one you have and are happy with is the best one for you. Like the old question of which caliber is best or deer? The answer is the one you are holding at the time the deer appears. The bottom line is that thanks to yourself and Charlie, many, many, many shooters are able to extend their hobby and save a few bucks at the same time.

Sounds good to me. Jeff, I didn't think you ment anything in a negative way as you come across in your posts here on the forum as a reasonable individual.

[PatMarlin]

I meant no offence and non taken on my part. I just wanted to clarify discriptions/words.

[Nose Dive]

Pretty nifty set up to me! Looks strong and durable.. Is Pat selling his stuff yet? I have plenty copper sheeting and gas check all I shoot. guess I will check it all out at www.Patmarlins.com and see. Interesting set up for the Aluminum checks..first time I have seen them. This would side step my 'copper' softening step I do. "pan fryin' step. Put em in a pan,,heat up till green, then air cool,,then install. Where does a South Texas Fatboy get some aluminum sheets at good price?

[Mugs]

Ck. Ace hardware. Amerimax brand roof flashing , .014. Thats what Ben is using in his above pictures. Soft and easy to form no annealing needed.
Mugs
IHMSA 5940L

[Ben]

Ditto ! !

Some good stuff !

Ben

[45nut]

Saving money is wonderful but it is more than that. Isn't it wonderful to shoot cartridges made with cast bullets, homemade gas checks, and salvaged brass. All we have to do now is figure out how to make powder and primers efficiently and we will really be set.

We are pretty blessed here and if anyone can do it,, someone here will !

[PatMarlin]

Pretty nifty set up to me! Looks strong and durable.. Is Pat selling his stuff yet? I have plenty copper sheeting and gas check all I shoot. guess I will check it all out at www.Patmarlins.com and see. Interesting set up for the Aluminum checks..first time I have seen them. This would side step my 'copper' softening step I do. "pan fryin' step. Put em in a pan,,heat up till green, then air cool,,then install. Where does a South Texas Fatboy get some aluminum sheets at good price?

Welcome to cast boolit heaven ND and thanks for the compliment ..:drinks:

30 cal is shipping and I should have a good amount extra from this run here. 35 cal will be shipping next week baring any murphy complications. Should have some extra stock there but we will see.

More calibers comin'... comin' around the mountain.

[Jim Sheldon]

I don't have my checkmaker yet (.32 cal) but I am a ham radio operator (callsign W0EB) and I came across a possible source of .012 copper that doesn't appear overly expensive. They seem to have it in several widths of strap and also in sheet form.

Pat says you can get around 1000 or so checks from an 8.5 X 11" sheet so their sheet copper is pretty inexpensive compared to 30 bucks a 1000 or so for commercial checks. They list 3 sizes of sheets - 12"x12", 6"x12" and 6"x6".

I haven't ordered any from them yet, but I do plan on getting at least one sheet after Pat gets caught up on the .30 and 35 caliber checkmakers and gets into the other calibers far enough to build my 8mm/.32 caliber one.

The company's name is Georgia Copper and you can order right off their website.
http://www.gacopper.com/

(Cut & paste prices from their website COPPER SHEET 12" x 12" x .012" $7.50, 6" x 12" x .012" $4.50 and 6" x 6" x .012" $2.50 per sheet plus shipping.)

As I said, I haven't ordered anything from them yet, but I have several ham radio operator friends that have used their grounding strap with excellent results.

They say its pure copper (alloy C110) or something like that. Not sure the hardness, but if someone else here doesn't try them I will as soon as my checkmaker arrives and report back on how well the stuff works and whether or not it needs to be annealed prior to making checks out of it.

Oh, I'd better also note that I have absolutely no financial interest in that company and this is strictly for your information as a POSSIBLE source of copper sheet for making gas checks.

[edsmith]

thanks for the link. ED ke4sep

[PatMarlin]

I'm also looking into carrying copper for Checkmaker™ users and having it available here on hand at a good price.

After I finish programs on all the calibers and doing the production refinements I'm in the middle of right now while running dies, I'll be able to concentrate on carrying metal for Checkbooliteers.

One thing the CNC is doing is allowing me to use closer tolerances that's improving and refining the dies performance even a bit more. I'm still working on the finish. It's good and you guys will be happy, but I'm shooting for picture factory die perfect. There's a million combination options of speeds and feeds and tooling, and over time I will hit the perfect combination across the board.

For now I just focus on getting the job done. Hard to believe I've been working on this full time for over a year now. I've got help coming soon. My Nephew just graduated HS and he wants to learn the shooting sports and machining.

I've also got a new better option that I will be offering instead of the optional ejector pin. After more refinements and testing I've found even better yet an optional male die will cover all your metal choice options from .005 to .018 ( and possibly a bit thicker) and cover all shank sizes. Further refining my dies as complete die set to work within one caliber.

30 caliber as is performing now pretty much covers this range for most shanks, but I've noticed going with larger diameter calibers, there' s a narrower window range to work with when you have over sized and under sized cast shanks, and would like the option to use thin and thick metal ranges.

The standard male forming die covers in spec shanks with metals in the .009 to .014 range now, but using the optional male forming die will extend the range beyond this area. The dies have no problem cutting disks from all of these thickness as long as it's not to hard. Annealing will take care of that.

Basically this all boils down to a set of dies that allow you to get excellent performance from all of your boolit molds. Not just the ones with perfect shanks and only 1 choice in metal thickness.

As we seek the perfect combination for cast boolit performance, you will have the tools to do the same with making your own gas checks.


And PS on this note...

If you guys ever have an issue with your check fit or die operation contact me ASAP. I stand fully behind my dies and will correct the problem right away. Even though I'm very careful producing these, they still are a machined product and flaws are bound to show up from time to time.


....:Fire:

[Rico1950]

Pat says you can get around 1000 or so checks from an 8.5 X 11" sheet so their sheet copper is pretty inexpensive compared to 30 bucks a 1000 or so for commercial checks. They list 3 sizes of sheets - 12"x12", 6"x12" and 6"x6".
I believe that's from 3 sheets.

[PatMarlin]

Three (3)- 8x11 sheets give you approx. 1144 checks in 30 caliber.

[Jim Sheldon]

Three (3)- 8x11 sheets give you approx. 1144 checks in 30 caliber.

Oops, I misquoted you Pat when I said approximately 1000 per 8.5X11 sheet in an earlier post. 3 sheets/1100 or so sounds a lot more reasonable now that I think about it.

8.5X11=93.5 sq in, X 3=280.5 sq in and 12X12=144 sq in per sheet X2=288 sq in so that works out to about half price ($15/1000 vs $30/1000 commercial). That's not figuring in the shipping though and I haven't researched their shipping charges yet.

I'm sure Pat's prices are going to be very competitive.

Jim

[PatMarlin]

I think you can beat that now over at Storm Copper.com and shipping is included.

[0verkill]

If you order from GACOPPER.COM, call them rather than placing the order online, you will get a much better shipping rate. Also they may have some discolored or blemished pieces they will sell to you at a discount.

[Brother_Love]

Here's my checks from the Ace Hdwe. .014" aluminum. They appear to be a little "rough around the edges" but they grip the boolits good after sizing. I have thought of trying some copper but if these do as well as everyone else's aluminum checks I will stick with them.
Malcolm'
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/revrun4/30_checks.jpg