Futile attempt!

[RMulhern]

I have a .45/100 Meacham LR rifle in .45/100 caliber and today I loaded me up 30 rounds of PP to see how it would handle the loads. I had a 600 yd. zero and I used that as a starting point to give me my sight setting for 1000 yards. Bullet was the BACO PP in .446" diameter and it was patched up to a diameter of .450" with the load being 105 grs. Swiss 1F, WLR primer, primer wad seated in the primer pocket, annealed Starline brass, with the bullet seated .140" into the case. Was using one .060" Walters wad atop the powder. I fired all 30 rounds and HIT THE MAINFRAME (72" x 72") TWICE!! I wiped with two damp NAPA water soluble oil patches followed by one dry! RH was 48%, temp 89F. Wind from 2 o/clock at about 5 mph up to 8 mph!! The 34" barrel has 1-16 ROT. Wiping with a .45 caliber plastic brush to shove the patches through I could detect NO LEADING BY FEEL but when I finished I mined lead for 15 minutes out of the bore! I had a feeling this was what was going on during my strings. I was not over heating the barrel but pausing for at least 10 minutes betwixt strings of fire!! This tells me that this rifle isn't going to shoot PP! The bore was completely 'lead free' prior to starting this fiasco this afternoon! To say the least I was somewhat pissed!!

[303Guy]

This tells me that this rifle isn't going to shoot PP!I do believe you know what you are doing so why would you say the rifle won't shoot patched? (I doubt you'd be someone to give up easily).

[45 2.1]

This tells me that this rifle isn't going to shoot PP! The bore was completely 'lead free' prior to starting this fiasco this afternoon!

All it should tell you is your first assumption about what it SHOULD do was wrong. Each rifle is an individual. Keep trying.............. it might teach you something.

[SharpsShooter]

Had a similar experience myself couple years back. Went to a heavier paper and Increased finished diameter by .002"...fixed it YMMV

SS

[Don McDowell]

What was the length and alloy of that bullet
Maybe change the wiping routine. That barrel might not like that much wet stuff in it. Maybe go with 1 damp and 1 dry,or just 1 barely damp.
Either something is tearing that patch , or the nose is slumping plumb sideways, because as you know a properly patched bullet won't leave lead, account of there's no way for the lead to get to the bore.

[RMulhern]

With this chamber....I was noticing the dreaded little 'paper ring' and I KNEW that the **** end of the patch was being shaved off! When I said "this tells me this rifle won't shoot PP"....what should have been stated was "not with the components being used"! The alloy was 1-16 so I don't think 'slump' was the problem; rather the patch was tearing because of thin-walled brass! I had this problem way back with the 110....went to RMC thick brass....PROBLEM SOLVED!! Will probably have to do the same thing with this rifle!! HOWEVER.....I have not been able to get the .446" diameter bullet to perform for me. I know KW has had good success with it but even with the right thickness patch paper...'so so accuracy' is all it has produced for me. I can run the .446" through a .444" swage die and THAT works great. Time will tell!!

[Lead pot]

Yup! as long as you get these nasty things you will have a problem :evil::evil:
10 shots 10 rings, two are double :evil::evil:

[Don McDowell]

Rick have you tried trimming down Norma basic brass? That stuff gets pretty thick, by the time you get to 2.4, so it might be good for patched bullets at 2.6

[RMulhern]

Rick have you tried trimming down Norma basic brass? That stuff gets pretty thick, by the time you get to 2.4, so it might be good for patched bullets at 2.6

Don

Nope...but I'm gonna give that a try!! I've been busy with Doc Lay all day. He's here shooting....and SHOOTING GOOD! He's got a new Douglas barrel on his Shiloh .45/90 and he's beating the 10 ring plate TO DEATH with it!!

Thanks!

[Don McDowell]

Kewel. I suppose he's coming to the Quigley now to hand us all our hats again. lol

[Lead pot]

Rick.

Whats the good Doctor shooting??

[RMulhern]

Shooting his Douglas barrel (new) 45-90 and his old 45-70. Both shooting great but me thinks I'd choose the 70 with the groups I've witnessed today!!

[Don McDowell]

Rick you and him ought to borrow a plane out of the hanger and fly up for Kenny's big dance on Saturday....

[Don McDowell]

Aww it'll be good flyin weather by Friday....

[waksupi]

Think ya can reduce the size of that picture some?

[RMulhern]

Think ya can reduce the size of that picture some?

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4861/shadedoc.th.jpg (http://img404.imageshack.us/i/shadedoc.jpg/)

Originally Posted by Don McDowell View Post
Rick you and him ought to borrow a plane out of the hanger and fly up for Kenny's big dance on Saturday....
Don

Wish we could! Doc shot some good groups today; with both his .45/90 and the .45/70! We got 'run off' by a huge cell that moved in right at 1820 hours. I had a sunshade set up for him and I'll bet it's crumpled that dude up to hell and back! Raining so hard right now.....the friggin frogs have on aqua lungs!! Maybe it won't blow the damn thing off into the next country!!

[Grapeshot]

What is the Groove to Groove measurement of your barrel. If it is bigger than the .450 you are patching your bullets to, then your problem is obvious, you need to use thicker papper and patch up to groove diameter. If you are thinking that the powder's explosive force will bump up that paper patched slug to groove diameter with out damaging the patch, you may be in for a surprise.

If you haven't got a copy of Paul Mathews' book on shooting paper patched bullets it would be wise to invest in it.

[Red River Rick]

If you are thinking that the powder's explosive force will bump up that paper patched slug to groove diameter with out damaging the patch, you may be in for a surprise.

If you haven't got a copy of Paul Mathews' book on shooting paper patched bullets it would be wise to invest in it.

Grapeshot:

Most of the guys posting in the Paper Patch section could probably recite Pauls books from memory.

The only person who'll be in for a suprise might be you................try patching to bore diameter and see for yourself. Then post your findings!

RRR

[Grapeshot]

Grapeshot:

Most of the guys posting in the Paper Patch section could probably recite Pauls books from memory.

The only person who'll be in for a suprise might be you................try patching to bore diameter and see for yourself. Then post your findings!

RRR

Point taken. I humbly bow to superior knowledge.

[Lead pot]

Patching to groove or bore diameter both have there good points. I do both.
Patching to bore or slightly over depending your type of chamber and bullet ogive design works about as good as anything.
Patching to groove diameter works very good with a long lead chamber or if that bullet is seated with a breach seating tool that pushes the bullet to the proper depth so you can chamber a loaded case with powder and a flush fitting wad or no wad at all.
The best accuracy I get with the black powder cartridge rifle is when I breach seat a patched bullet that is patched to groove diameter. There is no bullet upset at the base or shank of the bullet to distort it. There is nose setback if your alloy is not tempered enough to hold the integrity of the ogive radius.
A bullet breach seated with a clean barrel every shot is the way to go if a match is setup with enough time allowed.
Patching a bullet to full groove diameter and deep seating it in a case is a problem with a lot of upset to fill the chamber than swaged back down to bore groove diameter and if your chamber end has a 45 degree wall some paper and lead will get sheared off and it will get spread like butter into the throat and on down the bore.
Patching to bore or groove will work good but you have to load accordingly to make it work good.

Kurt

[RMulhern]

What is the Groove to Groove measurement of your barrel. If it is bigger than the .450 you are patching your bullets to, then your problem is obvious, you need to use thicker papper and patch up to groove diameter. If you are thinking that the powder's explosive force will bump up that paper patched slug to groove diameter with out damaging the patch, you may be in for a surprise.

If you haven't got a copy of Paul Mathews' book on shooting paper patched bullets it would be wise to invest in it.

Grapeshot

Some folks shoot 'groove diameter'...some folks shoot 'bore diameter'! To date...I ain't found anything wrong with BORE DIAMETER! This was shot from 1000 yds. shooting a 50/90 and BORE-SIZED PP bullets! On occasion some other rifles will shoot just as well....using BORE-SIZED PP bullets!! I won't attempt to deliver a 'paper' on the shooting of PP bullets, rather suffice it to say that when I get a little more time to work with the two rifles I'm currently introducing to PP....I'll get them to work!:drinks::drinks:

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/6753/5090group.th.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/5090group.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)