terrible leading

[wayne h]

loaded a bunch of lee 309-160 gc bullet w/o the gas check. these were cast from water dropped wheel weights. I lubed them but shot them w/o sizing w/ 16 grns of 2400 in a 17 enfield (30-06). Boy this produced the worst case of leaded bore i've ever seen. I thought this load would be low enough in velocity to shoot w/o gas checks. Guess I was wrooong. Mabye drop back to 12 grns of 2400 and try again. What do you guys think. wayne h

[chboats]

I had the same thing happen to me in an 03A3. Was shooting a 314299 with GC on 18gr of 5744. Left the GCs off and deposited lots of lead in the barrel. Ended up going to a faster powder like Unique or even Bullseye to stop the leading. I didn't try going to much lighter charge of the of the 5744 only went to 16gr. You might have better luck with the 2400.

Carl

[dromia]

Have you checked your boolit fit?

What is the groove diameter of your rifle and what is the diameter of you boolit, it should be 1-2 thou over groove diameter.

In most cases chamber end leading especially is due to poor boolit fit.

Let us have you groove and boolit speccys first.

[Eagles6]

Yeah, first thing to check is always bullet fit.

[303Guy]

All good advise above. But there might just be another way around the problem. Wheat bran filler. It might just substitute as the gas check. I don't know but from the tests I have done with it (very limited) it might just form a soft wad behind the boolit, thus protecting it and cleaning the bore at the same time. Only one way to find out. Well, I could do the trial myself but I'm pressed for time at the moment. It seems to need at least a little compression over the powder. Just a thought![smilie=1:

[Jack Stanley]

For speeds that low , I wouldn't think that quenching the bullets and the extra hardness is needed . Bullet fit is very important and if the slug is a tad small it could benefit from being able to deform just a little to make a good seal .


Of course the other end of the deal is that rifle just might not like the load ya fed it . I have a low velocity load using Universal Clays and lead bullet with no check for the '06 . Two rifles love it with nothing left in the bore but smoothness , another shoots as well but leaves small flakes of lead that come out with a patch on the cleaning rod .

Jack

[Larry Gibson]

If you really feel the need to shoot that bullet without a GC and without leading cast them soft and lube them well. Leave "as cast" and LLA works fine as a lube. Load them over Bullseye. Start at 4.5 gr and work up to 7 gr in 1/2 gr increments. An accurate load will be found, usually between 1050 and 1200 fps, top load development when accuracy goes south.

Larry Gibson

[elk hunter]

Wayne H,

Just a thought, did you clean the bore of your Enfield before trying to shoot cast bullets? Many old military rifles will have years of accumulated fouling that is very hard to see. I made the mistake of not cleaning an old Krag once and had the worst case of leading I've ever seen. It took a dose of mercury to remove the lead and then I spent a couple of days getting the old fouling out and the bore back to bare steel. After cleaning the rifle loved cast bullets.

[docone31]

I have had fantastic results with paper patched loads. I prefer only older rifles. Their bores are sometimes lousey with fouling.
A paper patch will clean up the fouling/leading, and for the really hard to get out stuff, I add a little lapping compound.
Does well for me.

[Pirate69]

The very first cast boolits I shot were in a 303 with 16 grains of 2400. The barrel was cleaned very well; as I had learned that I need to from my reading. I did not use a gas check. It took about 7-8 rounds before the group opened up. Yeah, it was bad. Learned I needed a gas check. At that time I had not learned I needed to fill the bore. Bore was 0.315" and the boolit was 0.313". That did not help the situation any. I seem to be learning this hobby one lesson at a time; but it is fun.:bigsmyl2:

[1Shirt]

Pirate69, You will never learn it all. After 71 years, of which 50 have been as a caster and reloader, I am still learning. One lesson leads to another, that's about half the fun of it. I still believe all guns are female, and each requires a different diet in order to live up to your hopes and expectations. Good luck~
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Stoats]

I would echo the comments on Bullseye -- the only load my extremely oversize Enfield will shoot accurately is the Lee 160 grain tumble lube over 6.4 grains of French Bullseye equivalent -- the bullet is actually 5 thousandths of an inch UNDER groove diameter, but the fast powder seems to give it enough of a kick up the backside to set it up into the rifling.

The load develops only 1100 ft./s so has extremely limited application, and attempting to go faster with Unique-equivalent powder just opens the group up from around 2 moa to around 8. My hypothesis is that the slower powder does not set the bullet up properly.

[303Guy]

Stoats, it sounds like you have a perfect paper patch set up just waiting for the patch.[smilie=1:

[missionary5155]

Greetings
I have been of the opinion and practice to shoot the softest possible boolit with whatever base pressure I am using.
BUT as stated... Be sure the boolit is fat enough... I personally like .002 over bore if possible in caliber .30 and up. I will be OK with .001 oversized but I just like fat boolits.

[303Guy]

... but I just like fat boolits.I do too but that doesn't mean I'm right (I've been shown to be wrong way too often to stake my life on it! :mrgreen: ) I'm actually patching large enough for the throat to be 'swaging' the boolits. If there happens to be a soft spot or ring at the case mouth, I get expansion into the neck-chamber end space. No idea what that would do to accuracy as all my recovered boolits are fired into my 'test tube'.

[1Shirt]

Fat Boolits are kind of like a woman with a bit of age on her, and one that has enough meat on her bones to please. I like blts as fat as is necessary for the best accuracy. Usually that is about two thousands over, but in a lot of cases particularly with Milsurps, three thousands seems to be best. A lot depends on the mold! My molds are like my rifles, all female, and all different, and all require getting used to, and working with. When to small: beagle or buy a bigger mold! When to big, sizeum down. Do what ever works in the quest for accuracy!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[Stoats]

I had an attempt at paper patching but chose the wrong type of bullet (not a bore rider). The leading was extreme!

Plus, it's a lot of work for not much shooting... which is why I have not invested in a more suitable mould and gone for it

[JKH]

1shirt,

How very true in you're "sexing" of firearms and molds ;^ )

Since starting casting I have learned (the hard way of course), that EACH of my molds has a different personality, SOME aspects of casting will hold true through the whole spectrum, but each mold still has their additional quirks that require a bit of time to learn. Once learned however it is not difficult to get the to "purr" if'n you know what I mean :^ )

Same with rifles, funny thing wth them is my wife calls them my "girlfriends", they are finicky to a point but a whole lot easier to please than the human variety!

Jeff