Remington Lee in 30-40 Krag

[Boondocker]

A few years ago I acquired quite an interesting rifle. A fellow was moving and I bought a 8mm Mauser 100.00 and while I was there he said he had another one he inherited and did know what it was. I did not know what it was so I bought it for 100.00. I see they could have some value so I found a nut for being a blind squirrel.

[Multigunner]

Would this be the 1899 Remington Lee?
Only a few of the military configuration were used in the US, by a single state guard outfit.
Some may have ended up in China, not sure about that.

The commercial sporters of this model are also fine collectable rifles.
Great find, hope you'll post some images later, and results of test firing if its still in good condition.

[onceabull]

Took my first R.L. (a 30/40) away from a live auction (sans internet) back in the 20th century..Apparently a sporter to begin with,as no evidence of non-original metal..Stock is after market Sporter,nicely done..700 item auction over 10 hours,no competition on the R.L. Liked it so much ,now have two more,a much altered 45/70 ,and an original 30/30..Have competed for many others,but only one other chambering (7x57) has entered my field of view,,some of those listed in various references must have been close to 1-Off's .. Condition ,and Originality, are major concerns critical to estimating $ value,but a 38/55., 35 Win.,38/72 will trump almost anything...!!! Enjoy,,,Onceabull

[Boondocker]

I have it tucked away in the safe, I have not done anything except clean it . I did some internet searches on info ,not much out there. I will get it out and take some pics as maybe you fellows can help identify it some. I dont know even if it is a sporting or G.I.. Boon

[Buckshot]

I have it tucked away in the safe, I have not done anything except clean it . I did some internet searches on info ,not much out there. I will get it out and take some pics as maybe you fellows can help identify it some. I dont know even if it is a sporting or G.I.. Boon

..............You could contact the NRA for info also. You're a member, right?

...............Buckshot

[Boondocker]

I left my membership expire in a bit of a rage last spring. I dont know if it was because I made extra 100.00 donations or what. I was get phone calls and mailings twice weekly. I finally told the caller to explain to me why my donated money was going to salaries, mailings,printed supplies bugging a allready established member. I was told I was going to get a priority call with an explanation, guess what I am still waiting. So I diverted my donations to my pro gun politicians instead. I may join the NRA again if they get their act together. One hand doesnt know what the other is doing there . Sorry rant over.:(

[Tedly]

+1 on the NRA mailings, etc. After all , why waste precious resources preaching to the chior...

[Multigunner]

You can check this site for information on Remington Lee rifles.
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/books/Gene

[Boondocker]

Thanks for the link, I need to look into it. Here are a few pics I took , I need to figure how to take better pic tho. Boon:cbpour:

http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/boondocker6/Remington%20Lee/

[herbert buckland]

very good find and the most desirable of the Remiton Lees

[Multigunner]

Thanks for the link, I need to look into it. Here are a few pics I took , I need to figure how to take better pic tho. Boon:cbpour:

http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c277/boondocker6/Remington%20Lee/

I'm not that up on these but IIRC this is likely one of the Carbine length (for the era, what we'd consider a short rifle) that were mainly given or sold to the Cubans to equip their forces after the Spanish American War.

Where ever its been the bayonet lug and upper has been removed and the stock shortened so these could not be replaced.

This was probably done a great many years ago when the rifle was sold off or loaned to to be used as a Veterans drill or parade rifle.
If so it may have been used to fire blanks at funerals among other uses.

Its common to find Krag rifles of the same vintage with the bayonet lugs and upperband cut away like this. Many Krags offered as relics or restorables by the CMP were returned from Veterans organizations in this condition.

The practice was common in Australia as well, with Lee Metford rifles altered like this to prevent resoration to full military trim without obtaining new wood and fittings.
The main functional difference between a civilian rifle and a military rifle in those days being the capacity to mount a bayonet.

While its possible that a previous owner could have cut the stock, it shows no other signs of having been cut down as a sporter.

It is possible that the stock might be a long rifle stock cutdown to be used as a replacement for a broken carbine stock.
One photo I've found of a Carbine shows a stock of this length without bayonet lug but the tip of the fore end slim and rounded like a Trapdoor Springfield carbine stock.

PS
China also used these rifles, don't know if they ever used the carbine length or not.

You have a very desirable collectors item despite the trimmed fore end.

[herbert buckland]

are you sure this is no a unalterd carbine,it fits the description in Flaydermans book

[Multigunner]

are you sure this is no a unalterd carbine,it fits the description in Flaydermans book

Looking closer it very well might be. The tip of the fore end is rounded though not slimmed down as much as the example I found.
The example I had found online may have had its fore end tip altered or sanded down at some point.
The pictured carbine at the link is a 7mm South American version
http://books.google.com/books?id=Eq2Dnj4sDZIC&pg=PA245&lpg=PA245&dq=remington+lee+carbine&source=bl&ots=satAlbPBAI&sig=BQW2z35zb4QvAt0EZbl-W9H-1Jk&hl=en&ei=TWgETOjHE8T38Abf-NWnDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CBYQ6AEwAQ
If a set of measurements can be found to be sure of position of the stock band that might prove it one way or the other.

At this point I'd be comfortable with calling it a Carbine stock unless its proven otherwise.


PS
I was expecting the carbines would have a bayonet lug, so I got off into known instances of lug and band removal.
Some similar Lee Metford carbines had upper bands and bayonet lugs, so I'd had these on my mind.
But considering the practice of that era US carbines like the Krag and Trapdoor carbines had no bayonet lugs and had the rounded bare tip much as this carbine has.

[Boondocker]

You guys are a wealth of information. This rifle does not seem to be a carbine verson all though it may be. Would the carbines have the elevated rear sight. If the stock was altered they did a good job of it. They guy I bought it from said it was his FIL's deer rifle and the bore is pretty pitted but shootable. I have'nt shot it and may not. I have no 30-40 ammo. I assume it is krag for the year and it is stamped US Cal 30. MY heart says shoot cast in it but I don't want to break it tho. I have a hard time having a firearm and not shooting it.:castmine:

[herbert buckland]

the carbine would have a rear sight lick yours,the only thing i am not sure of is the front sight band looks lick a lee enfield one,it would be worth wile geting it identified by somone who knows the Remiton Lees,even if it is not original it is still a uncomon one,the bore would probly inprove with fire laping to make a very handy hunting carbine,i know i would lick it in my safe,enjoy

[Multigunner]

You guys are a wealth of information. This rifle does not seem to be a carbine verson all though it may be. Would the carbines have the elevated rear sight. If the stock was altered they did a good job of it. They guy I bought it from said it was his FIL's deer rifle and the bore is pretty pitted but shootable. I have'nt shot it and may not. I have no 30-40 ammo. I assume it is krag for the year and it is stamped US Cal 30. MY heart says shoot cast in it but I don't want to break it tho. I have a hard time having a firearm and not shooting it.:castmine:

Theres always a possibility of it being an altered rifle cut to carbine configuration, and we can't always go by images found in books because sometimes those examples may have been altered at some point.

Some Krag rifles were converted to carbine configuration by gun dealers, Bannerman did some I think. Those had springfield or similar band type front sights rather than the original sight base that fitted flush to the barrel.

A broken off sight base replaced by a band type could happen, or a worn carbine barrel replaced by a cutdown rifle barrel at an arsenal.
Theres a lot of things that could happen to these rifles while in service in third world pestholes over a century ago.

My interest is peaked I'll find out as much as I can on these.

[Bret4207]

Golly, I might just give you $101.00 for it. Look at the profit!