International Lawn Steel shooting

[Boz330]

Has anybody heard of this? I was just wondering how it works. An old friend of mine won some medals at the Sunshine State Games in this discipline with T/C contenders in 357 and 44 mag.

Thanks
Bob

[BarryinIN]

Never heard of it.
But the website makes it look...interesting. http://internationallawnsteelshootersassociation.sports.o fficelive.com/default.aspx

[pmeisel]

God bless folks with a sense of humor who like to shoot.

[Boz330]

Thanks, I didn't come up with anything on the search. Actually sounds like fun. Rusty, the guy who won some of the medals is a friend from way back, although I haven't seen him in years. Hasn't changed much though.

Bob

[9.3X62AL]

God bless folks with a sense of humor who like to shoot.

Indeed! They don't take themselves too seriously, and that's a good thing.

[DukeInFlorida]

Old thread, but I have discovered a group of these shooters here in Eastern Central Florida, Volusia County to be exact.

I have been looking to find a formal web site for this organization, and the previous link seems to have gone the way of the dodo bird.

The new and current site is linked in my tagline

The group of 6 or so shooters arrive on Tuesday mornings, and set up their array of assorted steel targets. They play for nickels, and even though I have watched them several times, I don't get a real sense for the rules. They seem to load only light loads, having to put their gun vertical, and bump it with their hand to jostle the powder down by the primer end in order to get enough power to barely knock down a target.

They have a verbal patter: "I am in the game, and have an animal target, #6" The rest report, "I see it"... Seems person keeps track of where they are during the game. There were nickels on the tables next to their lawn chairs. "LETS" (It's their way of keeping score)

Hoping that resurrecting this old thread will provide some path to the official rules for this GAME.

btw, I commented that I bet my .500 Magnum would do well (with massive knockdown power), but the reply was that the loads are so light (both powder and bullets) that the 500 didn't fare well during the testing. I encourage all to read this entire thread, beginning to end. Lots of details contained therein.

I have become a member of the ILSA group, and I do pretty well with LETS. Read on!

[bigblockbill]

This sounded intreating so I looked around. Duke, I found this and it looks like its in your home state. I wish they would have something like that around here. Bu, then again it also sounds like when my family gets together to shoot skeet in the back yard at my folks house. http://www.flssa.org/pdf/mc/MC1209.pdf

[DukeInFlorida]

Yes, well.............. I also looked around, and found that same document. As soon as I saw the name, I recognized it as one of the guys who plays the game weekly at my club.

The Roy Kramer that is mentioned in that pdf file, and the write up about the game, turns out to be THE GUY who invented the game, and one of the 6 or so guys who shoot the game every Tuesday AM at the Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club in New Smyrna Beach, FL.

I had the opportunity to visit with the shooters and Roy, at the start of my RSO shift at the club yesterday. He lives (for now) nearby, and after they packed up and left for lunch, he came back and brought me a printed copy of the RULES for the game. I would otherwise scan them, turn them into a pdf file, and host it here.

However, Roy asked me to hold off on that, and come and play the game with them next Wednesday AM. I already like the game, or at least the idea of it... super reduced loads, needs very soft bullets (range lead is near perfect), and great fun shooting at a myriad of targets.

The reason he's asked me to hold off until I play the game is because he started the ILSA in 1998, but because he did no promoting of it, it died from lack of members in August of 2013. He took the web site down. (Since revitalized!!!, link in my tagline) He tells me that there are three or four groups, mostly in the South, that are still playing the game. I'm asking him if he wants me to re-do the web site for him, do some simple marketing, and see what happens. I think he wants to see if I'm serious before he proceeds. BTW, Roy is one of the members here. I mentioned MY own on-line name, and that I am mostly known in the swaging area. He didn't offer up his own on-line name.

I'll invite him to join this discussion.

[mr_nice_guy228]

Duke, it sounds like good clean fun... I would very much be interested in hearing about your shoot.
The rules and a description of the targets also.

[gunarea]

OK, now you got my handle, here is the game. Lawnsteel is played while reclined in a lawnchair lounger.
The first obvious queery is how often do players shoot themselves in the foot? With one notable exception, a single time in twenty plus years. A particularly stupid person did in fact shoot herself on three seperate and different occasions. Her range privileges have since been fully suspended with no options available for review. There have been a couple other shoes and a flip flop get a small groove installed. It would seem there is a cure for some of the stupid out there, gunshot.
Small caliber is limited to a .358"(or smaller) 160gr. projectile traveling less than 875 fps measured at 8 ft from the muzzle. Large caliber (.358" or larger) allows a 250gr., maximum weight, projectile traveling less than 850 fps measured at 8 ft from the muzzle. In matches and tournaments there is no fudge factor and limits are strictly enforced with disqualification. Open play is more forgiving but less tolerant.
There are sixty five steel targets set semi randomly by the shooters in the given game. Target set is accepted by the majority rule. All target distances are by rule, plus or minus one to ten yard/s from a prescribed distance. A linejudge is elected from within the game group to preside during the game. Selection of a target is governed by many factors. One of these conditions exists deep in the head of the individual player and escapes explanation. With few exceptions, target selection is the choice of the player. All four card suits are present as target shapes. Also there is a ***** target shape(QTS are 6"X12") commonly refferred to as a kwit and pronounced "QUIT". The qualifying targets are a seven and a half inch circle atop a stem four inches high with varing width dimensions set at (+/- 30 ft) 55 yards. Money/point targets (18 by rule with 19 accepted in Florida and California) are all silhouette animal presentations. To "cash" on an animal target, a player must earn an animal shot by successfully toppling a called arbitrary target once "in the game". Hit or miss, an animal shot only lives for a single attempt. In turn each player will announce the condition of their game and declare which target they will engage. With accepted acknowledgement and supervision, that player may bring their handgun into full battery and fire upon the intended target. One shot per player per turn. Games may only last for fifty minutes. Game is over when all animal targets are down. Game is over when all arbitrary targets are down and all animal shots are exhausted.
Target set can be a very critical part of Lawnsteel. Players can choose to increase challenge by turning targets to an angle greater or less than perpendicular to the shooting line. Another favorite challenge is to set targets in front of or behind other targets. After shooting this game over twenty years, I have been witness to some target sets that defy description with print.
Advertising Lawnsteel has never been my intent. This game is a gift I share. My grandson began playing this game when he was seven years old. The safety involved will allow nearly anyone to participate. Demand has placed me as teacher for shooting, reloading, casting and mentor. I accept this role as payment for guidance received in my youth. Yeah, I'm mr. Lawnsteel.
Roy

[missionary5155]

Greetings
When I first read the title I thought it was an easier way of saying the other steel critter shooting.
This sounds very informal and would certainly make for a pleasant morning or afternoon of relaxful shooting. Low noise, low recoil and certainly nothing to overstress a competitor.
Mike in Peru

[DukeInFlorida]

Roy, let me know if you would like for me to scan and turn the Rules into a pdf so I could share those with the guys.

Orville

[DukeInFlorida]

With Roy Kramer's permission, I have scanned and posted the OFFICIAL rules of the ILSA.

OFFICIAL RULES OF LAWNSTEEL (http://www.internationallawnsteelshootersassociation.com/Lawnsteel-Rules%20(2019)%20Final%20Editing.pdf) <<< Here's the rules for download!

I got a chance to play three games with the guys last Wednesday, and quickly found out that my 4" Ruger GP100 in 38 special light loads doesn't have enough accuracy (the shooter was amazing!) to hit the steel targets at the official distance of 200 feet. I suffered through the first game that way, and then one of the guys allowed me to use his T/C Contender in 44 mag, with mouse fart loads behind a 210 grain cast boolit. Once I dialed his sights in for my eyes (had to adjust my aim point, he wouldn't let me mess with his sights.... hahaha), I was knocking them down, and regaining some nickels.

Next time I play, I will bring my S&W SS 44 mag with 6 3/8 barrel, and see how that runs. However, I am looking for a T/C Contender in 44 mag or 357 mag with 10" barrel. Iron sights.

Roy Kramer says that the "official organization" is currently down due to lack of membership. However, if we can get some excitement going for the game, I will re-do his web site for him.

[I'll Make Mine]

Cool! A set of PDF patterns for the animal targets (or reference to IHMSA etc. standards) would be a welcome addition to the rules. I know a few folks I might be able to take some LETS from, er, introduce to this game (their common pronunciation when plinking with handguns and rifles being "we can't hit s#!+ with a handgun")... :)

[DukeInFlorida]

The target(s), both in terms of the steel to be used, and the size, shape, and design, including bases, of the non-animal targets are covered in the set of rules. The information begins on Page 10 of the PDF file, and continues onto Page 11. I've re-read that area a few times, and while there's some leeway in terms of actual size or the targets and bases, the idea is very straightforward.

However, as you point out, the animal targets are not defined at all.

I'll see if I can get Roy to get me the specs for those. Or, maybe allow me to trace the outlines from his set. Some of the targets are rather big. The idea of the game is to knock the targets OVER, not just hit them. And, shot placement is critical to success. The big ram and the big pig require head shots, or shots high on the target. So far, I am lucky to just hit the damn things. LOL

The set of targets I shot at on that Wednesday were very well worn. Pock marked, and concave from being shot at a million times. One nice thing about this game is that the loads are all pretty light weight, and even mild steel will hold up well. I'm not sure if ASTM series 60 or better describes hot rolled or cold rolled. But, you don't have to invest in that very expensive class 500 rifle bullet proof steel.

If someone wants to create a set of drawings for these, I would be happy to host the file(s). I don't have sufficient drafting skills to create the drawings, however.

[DukeInFlorida]

Got a call from Roy Kramer last night, and he is going to get me the specifics on the targets that aren't already documented elsewhere. I'll post that info as soon as I get it.

An old link which previously worked with this video was deleted by the previous creator of the video. So, I am re-providing my own videos.
Here they are:

https://youtu.be/cURlV9DKjqQ

https://youtu.be/ydvR92MJq0k

https://youtu.be/4-vJ9G29aW8

[DukeInFlorida]

Here are the silhouettes for most of the animal targets:
Silhouette sizes:

Chicken Pig Turkey Ram
Width 13 in (33 cm) 22 in (56 cm) 19 in (48 cm) 32 in (81 cm)
Height 11 in (28 cm) 14 in (36 cm) 23 in (58 cm) 27 in (69 cm)

Roy advises that ILSA allows for +/- 1/2" from these.

And, the shapes:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/Metallic_silhouettes.jpg

Courtesy: IHMSA and WikiPedia

And, actual target data for IHMSA targets direct from their site:
http://www.ihmsa.org/targets/

Roy tells me that there's also a "mouse" target (think Dizzy World, mickey and minnie.... you get the idea), and a Joe Corpsman target. Roy will get me images with dimensions of those.

[HollandNut]

neat , will download the rules , looks fun

I herd of these guys years ago , but like the other guy , thought it was a different name for the other steel shooting

[DukeInFlorida]

Trust me............ It's entirely different than any other shooting that you or I have ever done. And, because of the very light loads, even young folks could safely shoot the steel.
Most shooting experiences are very serious. This game is much more like playing cribbage with your best friends. Lots of chatter on the shooting line, and great fun.


neat , will download the rules , looks fun

I herd of these guys years ago , but like the other guy , thought it was a different name for the other steel shooting

[DukeInFlorida]

I attended last Wednesday's shoot as an observer (I had an elderly shooter buddy with me, and we had to leave early to make a plane in Daytona).

Made a video, which I have uploaded to Youtube:


http://youtu.be/cURlV9DKjqQ

Roy also sent me the additional image for the remaining targets, which I will upload as soon as I can.

[DukeInFlorida]

Here are the additional targets:

104557

[I'll Make Mine]

Is anyone shooting this game, or have experience with it, in north central North Carolina? I'd go buy a lawn chair to be able to play this...

[Aunegl]

I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

4. Muzzle Control:

A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore.

[C. Latch]

Looks fun.

[oscarflytyer]

This game looks like it would be a hoot! The cribbage reference intrigued me! Would love to play with a short bbld SA revolver! Or even a 1911. Probably not do too well, but still have a ton of fun. Anyone shooting this anywhere in N AL/S Central TN?

[DukeInFlorida]

Your concerns with muzzle control are well founded. However, the fellow in the pink Crocs is Roy Kramer, himself. It's merely a trick of the camera angle. I will assure you that Roy, and the other regulars of this game have never lost a foot digit while shooting. Their feet are at least a FOOT away (sorry, couldn't help myself) from the muzzle direction. Feet never get close to being in trouble.

So, pardon my poor work with the camera angles. The game is very safe.


I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

4. Muzzle Control:

A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore.

BTW, I did see some guys set up and practice on Sunday afternoon, and they fired many short guns at these targets, including a 45 acp, and a S&W semi auto. Those didn't do all that well.
Not sure Roy would be happy with higher velocity jacketed bullets being tossed at his steel. I wasn't intrusive enough to see whether they were shooting cast or jacketed. The point is that they were shooting short barrels, and didn;t fare any better than when I shot my 4" GP 100 with light 38 special loads at 200 feet. Longer barrels are really needed to do this game justice.

[gunarea]

Lawnsteel is now gaining popularity simply by being played in a more public venue. Although reading the rules may make Lawnsteel seem a bit involved, playing the game allows most folks to catch on in just a couple games. In the past two months our player inventory has doubled.
Selling Lawnsteel has never been nor will ever be my intention. I have played every nationally recognized gun GAME there is. Putting play back into the GAME, is what I am all about. Enlisting in the Marine Corps in 1969 at 17 years old (my mothers tears stained the document) taught me to appreciate playing games and knowing the difference.
WARNING!! Lawnsteel is addictive. BTW the first time is always free.
Dukeinflorida has passed the *** barrier and will soon move on to the next level of Lawnsteel play. Congratulations!
As to the concerns of safety, my credentials are extensive along with my experience. Cars and cell phones kill more people than anything in the USA. Within the general public, our military, law enforcement and politics there is no place which excludes stupid. Unfortunately Lawnsteel is not exempt from stupid either. Let's just have fun and try not to hurt anybody. I love this game!
Roy

[I'll Make Mine]

If I can afford a vacation next year, I may have to try to get to a location where lawnsteel is played, just to be able to play a game or two. One box of rounds per game is affordable (and good incentive to get my reloading going again), if I could shoot at a range close to home. I'm pretty sure I could find a load for my .357 that meets the rules and that would give me hits fairly frequently at 60-70 yards. You folks won't mind if I wear my steel toe work boots to the range, will you?

[gunarea]

You may be in luck! There is a Lawnsteel shooter with a small range located between Ashland and the casinos. I'm not familiar with the area so don't know if this is close to you. His range does not have a full Lawnsteel setup but he does practice and he knows Lawnsteel the game. If this is of interest, shoot me a pm and I'll try to hook you up.
When you come to Florida(everyone comes to Florida) it will be no problem to introduce you to Lawnsteel. With just a little bit of warning, all you will need the first time is a butt load of nickles. While we do want you to feel special, this invitation goes out to all my casting family. Cmon down here and experience a gun game where fun and laughter are part of the play. This is not a testosterone driven shooting sport, we have many female participants and welcome all the ladies. We are located between Disney and Daytona International speedway. It is a very easy location to get to off of four lane divided highways.
Roy

[gunarea]

My buddy in North Carolina lives near Bryson city. We talked yesterday and he said he would welcome a fellow to his range to learn Lawnsteel. Just let me know.
Roy

[DukeInFlorida]

Today, I got my first opportunity to be a Line Judge. Wow, what a LOT of responsibility. Had the best day ever (shooting wise), and the most fun also. Came home with fewer nickels than I went with, but it's not the nickels that measure the extent of fun.

I am working on re-establishing the formal web site for the game. I'll report progress on that as I can.

The thread started off with a reference to Rusty being a friend of Bozz330. Rusty played Lawn Steel with us last Sunday, and is still in good practice.

[jeepyj]

DukeInFlorida nice reporting. I think it looks like a bunch of fun. I can't imagine that there is much in the way of that up my way but I would be up for a game or two!
jeepyj

[I'll Make Mine]

You may be in luck! There is a Lawnsteel shooter with a small range located between Ashland and the casinos.

As I recall, the "casinos" are in Cherokee, extreme western end of North Carolina, which is not particularly close to me and well away from I-40 (it'd have to be a weekend trip with a campout or motel stay over one night, before or after; it's about seven-eight hours on the road), but still a bunch closer than Orlando area (which is a long full day's drive; I'm two hours from where I'd get onto I-95, from which it's twelve hours or so further to Orlando). OTOH, if that's between Asheville and Cherokee, it might be as little as four hours, which could be a day trip if the shooting starts late enough (no problem getting on the road by 6 AM, I'm up at 5:00 on weekdays). I could probably manage to get out to Cherokee area three or four times a year, Asheville more frequently, which isn't enough to get really proficient at anything (but I don't have to go that far to practice shooting, of course; and I have a friend whose family owns a piece of forest-enclosed land near Greensboro that we already shoot on and where we could easily set up a practice range for Lawnsteel -- long term, we'd like to play the game properly there; that's about forty minutes from my home).

I'd appreciate it if you could put me in touch with your friend, if only to get a more precise location and see when he's able to shoot. I've never shot steel at any range (other than a hundred yard gong at a range I used a couple times back in 1981), but I'm sure my Dan Wesson could handle it at 60-70 yards; I can hit a silhouette target pretty consistently at a hundred last I tried. I'll have to get my press set up and load some rounds (a little less "hot" than what I already have loaded, which are all near maximum loads) before I can shoot Lawnsteel, but that's a relatively minor task. A couple-three boxes of suitable rounds and a couple rolls of nickels should cover me for a day...

Edit: Okay, Google Maps shows Bryson City just 30-40 miles west of Asheville; it's about 3 1/2 hours without traffic. I could do that as a day trip, several times a year, with a little planning (gas money, lunch-drink cooler, ammunition, nickels, hat for sun protection -- not a big problem). I'll send you a PM...

[gunarea]

Hey Illmakemine
You can wear whatever fashion choice suits. Our oldest player wears shorts and when shooting revolvers will put a piece of towel under the cylinder area to avoid burns and stains. This blast shield is reffered to as a leg kotex. It is seldom the shot maximum ever gets hit. Last Wednesday there were only four players and in four games I burnt 108 rounds. At state tournament in 2011 six players finished a game in 21 minutes firing 13 rounds each. Games are never the same. The level of play constantly changes with sometimes very subtle differences. Each game can be easily altered simply with a target or two placed in a completely different although legal position.
As Dukeinflorida pointed out, this game is unlike anything you have ever played. Without first hand experience it would be very difficult to understand what is being explained. Comparisons to other games is not unlike alligator, rattlesnake and armadillo tasting like chicken. They don't!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Aunegl http://castboolits.gunloads.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=2776348#post2776348)
I've got a problem the lack of muzzle control, in this game. Especially with the guy in the pink crocs. I was waiting for him to add another hole in his crocs.

IHSMA rules on muzzle control:

4. Muzzle Control:

A) From the moment a handgun is placed on the firing line, until it is removed, the muzzle shall point safely down range.

B) At no time during the loading or firing stages shall competitors allow their handgun to point at any part of their anatomy or any other person.

C) While in the firing position, no part of the competitor's body may be in the "Danger Zone", defined as a 45-degree angle cone-shaped area extending from the muzzle in line with the bore."



Aunegl, the rules for their game has changed radicaly over the years. During my reign it was legal for a full prone Creedmore firing position. Safety is the individual responsibility of every person involved in any shooting sport. Through my years of training law enforcement (police, sheriff, swat and fbi) I have come to be very aware of stupid bombs. Here is my proof.110425Yes it is a gun in his ear, yes his finger is on the trigger, yes he is an instructor, yes he is still alive. Being a professional, the safety was on! Unlike so many gun games, Lawnsteel requires at least one observer for each shot taken. I challenge someone to find a gun range lacking the obvious bullet holes in places where there shouldn't be. My Lawnsteel facility was twenty one years old, hosted six years of state competition, held 56 sanctioned shoots per year, supported professional and informal training, along with thousands of impromptu games. Even with the 4 bullet holes that came from a stupid neighbor, there are only 8 on the entire facility of questionable procedure. Three are in the roof directly over a firing station and one in the floor. I personally witnessed each.
While I am up on the soapbox. My shooting facility was closed by a wealthy individual who was a competitor(state medalist), a range member, former employer and recent neighbor. As a neighbor he demanded a cease and desist of all range activities after purchasing contigous property. Not a new story but one all too familiar. Some of you know all too well what I'm talking about! So again, let's be safe and have some fun.
Roy

[I'll Make Mine]

Gunarea, that was kind of a joke -- though folks who don't live with me, even if they know me pretty well, would likely have missed it. I own precisely two pairs of shoes (think of me as the anti-Imelda Marcos), one steel toe paratrooper style zip/lace boots subsidized by my employer, the other high top motorcycle/engineer boots I've had for many years (at $120 a pair where I used to buy them, cheapest shoes I've ever owned in terms of cost over their ten-plus year life, even when I rode a motorcycle daily). I also wear full length jeans or khakis, and long sleeve shirts (lots cheaper than sunscreen), even when it's hot out (even when I'm walking for exercise in 90 degrees and North Carolina humidity).

If I find I'm shooting Lawnsteel a lot, I'm likely to buy a piece of leather and make up a leg shield to keep the cylinder gap blast off my leg when resting on my knee or thigh, but for a start, I'll probably sit upright and hold with both hands.

[TCLouis]

This looks like fun, friendly but still competition.

[gunarea]

Hey TCLouis
The comradery in Lawnsteel has no equal in sport shooting competitions. Our motto is, "I don't want to beat you on your worst day, I want to beat you on your best day". Urban rambos who engage in make believe life and death senarios will not enjoy this lighthearted play period. As to the level of marksmanship, Lawnsteel can challenge even the best. It is very common for the intended target to have less than 5 square inches available for a successful engagement. Bear in mind the target will be no less than 45 yards away and only "iron sights" are permitted. Out at 70 or so yards, a 38 special hit must be in the head to topple a turkey. During the concentration of a shot engagement it is completely legal and encouraged to point a finger only three inches away and exclaim "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you".
Everyone in my family plays this game(wife, children, nieces, nephews, in-laws, outlaws, grandchildren). From eight years old to 77 years old is the age spread we enjoy. When the eight year old grandson shot his first full blown Lawnsteel game, our senior player was 72 and shot it with him. That game had six players and the young boy made no protocol or safety fouls.
Now, please excuse me, it is time to drive to someone elses range and play some Lawnsteel.
Roy

[I'll Make Mine]

Out at 70 or so yards, a 38 special hit must be in the head to topple a turkey.

And also note that the bullet weight and velocity limits for "small bore" make my .357 Magnum revolver, ballistically, nothing more than a .38 Special with a little more brass in the cartridge. In fact, it looks very much as if the ballistic limits for small bore were taken directly from common .38 Special load data (and not +P, either). I'll shoot the Magnum cartridges, because a) I don't like cleaning the carbon ring from the .38s out of the chamber, and b) reducing the bullet jump can't do any harm to the accuracy (which is still, surely, better than my own ability to see the target and hold the gun steady), but they won't do any more than a .38 Special would at the same range.

[gunarea]

Alright now
While the load limits do look like standard 38 special, most all Lawnsteel shooters actually load to a lower velocity. In both my revolver and closed breech handguns, I load to a velocity of 810fps with a SD of 8fps. We have found a flat point round nose 160gr cast bullet to be most effective on steel. This combo makes for same point of impact from 45 to 70 yards. These rounds have been shown to be pinpoint accurate. Even the second most common round, 44, mostly in 44 mag handcannons. Is loaded to 44 Russian level.
Most of the revolvers perform about the same using either 38 special brass or 357 mag brass. The 38 does get slightly better gas mileage on powder. There is always one or two handguns which require special diets to keep up with the curve. T/C contenders can be difficult to feed. Just Saturday passed had me working on figuring out how to get yet another damm T/C contender to shoot. Twist rate comes into play at these low velocities and can have dramatic effects. Hard alloy does not obturate properly with the pressures lowered. We will get you some "Best Lube" so you can do some semi-extensive testing and then reconsider cleaning procedures.
My buddy up there in the hills will show you a good time and share all his Lawnsteel experience with you. Be advised he is considered a "Nickle Grubber". Keep us posted on your experience.
Roy

[I'll Make Mine]

I've shot some low velocity wadcutters from my Dan Wesson (down to the classic 2.7 gr. Bullseye load under 148 grain wadcutter). I see the closest I can come to your described boolit in a Lee mold (which are the ones I can afford at present) is the 358-158-RF. They have a true round nose the same weight with significantly higher BC, seems it would hold its velocity better, but if the flat nose doesn't slide as much on an off-angle target surface it'll probably do a better job of actually knocking the target down.

If clip-on wheel weight is too hard, I can alloy in some stick-on; those ingots are barely harder than pure (I can also get pure lead wire and sheet, I think, at an employee discount where I work). At these velocities, I certainly wouldn't plan to shoot anything harder than wheel weight. I need to slug my bore and throats, and get a sizing die as well as a mold -- I'm a firm believer that bullet fit is more important than hard alloy, even when pushing things a bit. If the bullet fills the grooves, it doesn't have to be hard...

[gunarea]

Hey I'LL MAKE MINE
That Lee bullet is used by several Lawnsteel players. One person opted for the higher BC of the round nose and as you suggested, it does come up short on knocking down steel. Lyman and Saeco make a "cowboy" bullet design which are the most popular. The Saeco looks just like the ones shown on "Cast Boolits" logo. The Lyman bullet has an ogive of 2 on the nose and a bevel base. Depending on the age of the Lyman mould, the lube groove may be flat or curved. Again, you are correct about bullet fit and with these lower operating pressures it becomes critical. The few who use commercial and jacketed stuff struggle with loading for accuracy. With the low velocity a soft alloy is actually much more effective. Softer alloy will yield a heavier slug and the predicted weights from given moulds are based upon Lyman #2 alloy being used. Also the casting temp can be reduced when alloy approaches higher lead percentage. Typically tin is added to reduce weight without making a significant rise in hardness along with reducing the casting tempature. Gosh, it sure does make a nice shiny bullet. The Lee mould does a fine job and those who use them swear by them. It is not difficult to make Lawnsteel ammunition, but it is different. You may find your wesson oil to be far more accurate than imagined. Soon as you get a chance, shoot some Lawnsteel ammo and tell us all about it.
Roy

[DukeInFlorida]

Roy's earlier comments about the Contenders is spot on.

I got VERY lucky with my first "out of the gate" attempt with the 44 mags. My combo of alloy, sizing, use of a gas check, and powder selection gave me a combination that keeps me in the game. My success in the game dramatically depends on my concentration, trigger control, etc.

The 38/357 mag small bore barrel, however, is giving me FITS!! I tried all of the variations for 357 mag, figuring that the closer to the lands the bullet is, the better. Well, it didn't work out that way. After consulting with several (including Roy) who have been playing this game for decades, the Contender actually seems to fare better with the 38 special brass. I tried several powders, and several variations of those powder weights, hoping to hit a given velocity which seems effective for lawn steel. Only Red Dot powder seemed to obturate the bullet properly upon firing. As Roy suggested would be the case, the immediate pressure spike allows the bullets to quickly seal the barrel, and prevents gas jetting.

I'm having other mechanical issues with the barrel (rear sight keeps loosening up, and barrel locks up properly, but the hammer doesn't always allow me to pull it back completely), and those are my distractions. Otherwise, I'd be a nickel grubber. None of those issues exist with the 44 barrel in place on the same frame. It's one of the reasons Roy and other dislike the Contender for this game. My budget, however, forces me to go that way. Can't afford to have 2-3 or 4 guns to play. Heck, I can barely afford the primers and powder... let alone the nickels.

I want to publicly thank Roy for his continued help with getting me set to play this game. He doesn't yet feel that I am a threat enough with the nickels, so he keeps feeding me tips, hints, and has even allowed me to cast using his mold, etc. Guess I'll have to continue "throwing" an occasional shot to distract him.... LOL

[gunarea]

Hey Folks
For those who might be following this thread, typically on a fifth Sunday, a tournament of some sort is offered to ILSA members. We are now hosted at the Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club(VCGHC). August 31 will be a fifth Sunday and we will be having some sort of Lawnsteel game competition. Come on out and see what we are doing. Although there aren't any "fantastic marksmen" here, there are some who will do until one gets here. Stay tuned for further news of the impending tournament.
Roy

[DukeInFlorida]

Got an email from gunarea (Roy) the other day:
--------------------------
Hello All
Fearless Leader has come up with yet another tournament format completely virgin and alien. "[Nickle Grubbers Double Down]". Since this has never been done, expect some serious stupid fun. Space is very limited so this will be done by reservation only. When slots are filled, entry will be closed. Masters Invintational games will be played exclusevily. There will be no registration and all aspects will be governed by the presiding ILSA Rangemaster (Roy). Participation will cost $5. Get with me to reserve a slot.
---------------------------

I am told (during our Wednesday morning weekly shoot) that trophies will be awarded, but biggest trophies won't necessarily go to the best shooters. Apparently, the day is more about "nickle grubbing" ( the person who earns the most nickels during a day is affectionately referred to as the nickel grubber for the day) and having fun.

I've already reported to Roy that I will be there! Hope anyone who's also in the area will come by and shoot with us.

[DukeInFlorida]

We've had a new shooter come to shoot. Well, he said he came to watch and learn. However, it's the policy of the active shooting group to welcome new shooters by offering them the use of a gun, and ammo, and providing (at cost) enough nickels to shoot a game or two.

The new shooter was thrilled and said he had a grand time shooting. He's doing some homework on what gun, how to load for the game, etc....

If anyone wants to come and join us, we welcome any and all shooters. We shoot every Tuesday morning at the Volusia Gun and Hunt Club on state Rt 44 (runs between I4 and New Smyrna Beach). The club's web site is here, including directions.

http://www.volusiacountygunandhuntclub.com/

Click on the "calendar" page to see when we are shooting.

[DukeInFlorida]

Our new shooter, Keith, has come to shoot a few more times. He's totally hooked.

He's jumping in with both feet, bought a 357 magnum barreled Contender, and has all the casting stuff he needs on order.

He's also scrounging lead like a madman. Told me he scored 2 five gallon buckets of lead wheel weights, and is actively sorting them. We are also doing a berm recovery bullet fest on Monday, and he took the day off from work to get his fair share.

If any one else wants to join us, we'll let you use a gun and ammo to try it out.

[gunarea]

Hey folks
We, (as a group) will supply everything but nickles for your first taste of Lawnsteel. It is truly amazing what the Lawnsteel group will offer up to the novice for their test run. Personal items specificaly for game play are graciously supplied to someone of unknown charater based solely upon the possibility that they are a Lawnsteel player. By rule, a Lawnsteel player must be honest. Bear in mind that a seasoned Lawnsteel player will SCREW you over for a nickle.
Loading ammunition for successful Lawnsteel play is not difficult, it is however different. Unlike many venues, attaining the badge of Bulleteer is done through dilligent effort and acomplished with result. Most all of the Lawnsteel players are very acomplished casters and reloaders. Without exception, they will gladly explain any and all portions of their ammo manufacture. Lawnsteel players take on the task of teaching without reservation and revel in the fact they are able to. We also offer a haven for the anal reloader and caster.
This game is not for the urban Rambo who needs make believe life and death senarios to boost adrenaline or macho alpha male power factor. This is not the game where we pretend to shoot bad guys. Lawnsteel is discipline, control, finess and most importantly fun. Come watch Lawnsteel and count competitor smiles during actual competition. Now go to any other competition and count smiles during play. I, we, love it when "really good shots" come play Lawnsteel with us and eventually learn how to be "really good shots". If you are really that good, we know how to make it comfortably challenging for anyone. Don't take my word for it, find out for yourself.
Roy

[NHPaul]

I wish I could get something like this going up here in NH we have a very active F&G and I think if I can get it all going this winter we can get some interest in the spring.

[Pee Wee]

Hello all My name is Keith, I am the new shooter. I love this game. First I would like to thank Orville for introducing me to this game. Also for all of his help, knowledge of reloading and just plan dumb a@$ questions that I call him with. I would also like to thank Eddie Pollick for letting me borrow his 357 contender and then selling it to me, (sorry about the chair) and also helping me with the dumb a@$ casting questions and letting me cast boolets and he and Oriville teaching me what not to do, at his cool place. I would also like to thank Roy for offering me his gun and station that first day and getting me hooked on this game. (Sorry about the chair) inviting me to his place and introducing me to a hole neither side of casting,reloading and the most enjoyable and fun shooting that I have done.(my wife said that I cant go to your house alone anymore) so come out and join "the game" you won't be sorry.

[Pee Wee]

Also I forgot to mention, I just got a 44 Mag barrel yesterday and can't wait to try it out.
we are playing "the game" tomorrow, so if you are interested come down I would be happy to let you use my station and pistol, (bring your own nickels) see you at the range

[TCLouis]

So let's (meaning those of you that have actually DONE IT) discuss 38, 357 and 44 boolits and powders for this game.

[Pee Wee]

T C, being that I just got into this I will give you my brief history of what I have learned so far. First, I have a Thompson center, contender. I started with 357 mag barrel. This was Eddies gun and he has been kind enough to sell me loads in 38 brass (at his cost) that he and Roy set up for this pistol. They have sized the boolets in different sizes for the bore size of this barrel with different loads of powder. The preferred powder of choice by these guys, and remember they have shot thousands of rounds doing this and have perfected it, is red dot, primo and bulls eye. They chronagraft their loads. I have not been able to find any of these powders to purchase. I was given a can of bulls eye buy Roy and he gave me a start volume of 2.9 grains. Now you will have to talk to Roy and Orville about why we use the low loads and the trajectory at the fps that is the optimal that is the most efficient. Orville is helping me with that. He brought his chronograph out sunday so after "the game" we could test my new loads. They were just a bit under the desired velocity, and gave me a number to go up to on my run for Wednesday Game. They have given me freely any and all information that I have asked for and about. Now this is just a small amount just on the powder. There is so much to learn and so little time. There are a couple of fellows that shoot 357 mag brass with a different load, and so it goes on and on. I am going to work on getting my 38 loads perfected before I jump into the 357 stuff, and for now Eddie is again being kind enough to let me use 44 mag loads, so I can just shoot my new barrel on weds day. I have ordered all the molds that they recommend to me that work the best for this game, sizing dies and all the equipment to cast my own boolits. So if you would like to follow me as I learn the ins and outs, I will be more than happy to post my journey and share with you what I am learning. I feel very fortunate to be able to do this with such a brain trust that is in this group, they give freely and brought me in as if they had known me all their lives. What a great bunch of guys and they can shoot to. We are playing "the game" today, whoo hoo.

[Pee Wee]

The first thing that Orville said that I should do is read Glen E. Fryxell's Book, it is on line and it is titled From Ingot to Target. It is very informative. So if you have nothing to do and wish to learn more about casting a Boolit, Check it out.
see at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

What kind of GAME, would compel a person, with three freshly broken toes to get into his truck, drive a half hour, carry two arm loads of stuff 600m, take all further Wednesdays off from work, postpone an interview for promotion and then sit next to the biggest arsehole playing? LAWNSTEEL! The same game brought another player out with a fractured sacrium to suffer along in silence while being continually raped for nickles. Yet both players began each and every turn at play with "I love this game". Lawnsteel whores.
Yesterday gifted our new players with shots that thrill to the bone. This exhileration can not be correctly, properly or fully explained to anyone else that lacks the first hand experience of having felt it before. Due to rule, no shot is made without witness/es. Challenging shots of the nature I am feebly attempting to describe, are generally observed carefully by all present. These shots not only demand pinpoint accuracy for success, the chance for collateral damage is also great. Our ***'s have gotten a taste of the highly addictive "holy f#!@ing sh!t (sh@t) did you see that?". The smile that comes with this sense of achievement can't be removed with double ought steel wool on a drill arbor. My congratulation and condolence go out to them.
Sincere thanks to friends for their help in relocating my gun room. There is no way, anymore, that I am capable of doing what you guys did for me. Thank you so much.
Roy

[DukeInFlorida]

I'll try to cover a few bases, and hope that I get it kind of right:


The "game" was developed with the notion that ANYONE, young, old, dainty, or large, could play.
I strongly urge you to READ THE RULES, published previously in this thread! It covers most of what I am about to discuss.
The game exists in several flavors, which I will cover later on.
The shooting is limited to low velocity, cast boolits, lobbed (that's the best way to describe the shots) at steel targets 200+ feet away.
The guns are either single shot, or revolvers.
They are either small bore (38 special or 357 mag) or large bore (typically 44 magnum or 45 long colt), depending on the call of the appointed line judge. Some guns seem to shoot 38 specials better than 357 magnums. Some guys use "cheater boolits" , ie: 357 mags on the large animal targets which are harder to knock down. My T/C Contender has two barrels that I use. A 357 mag barrel, which I use to shoot 38 specials, and a 44 mag barrel, which I use to shoot 44 mags.
Because of the rules, the speed limits on the boolits require softer lead than Lyman #2, for proper obfuscation. They also require a powder with a pretty precise burn rate to get the pressure spike right. So, boolits with a hardness of 6 or so work well. 160 grains for the 38's is a good weight. 220 grains for the 44's are good.
Red Dot and Promo are the two tested powders. I have been using Trailboss in my 44's, and will soon begin testing Trailboss in my 38's. My 44's are gas checked, and I just got a Lee mold to make gas checked 38's.
Because of the low velocity on the shots, the powder amounts are VERY low. So low that to gain any consistency in velocity from shot to shot, the guys have a habit of making the loaded round in the gun vertical, and tapping the sides of the gun to cause the powder to fall back against the primer. Failing to do so will result in a loss of about 15-20% velocity, and a missed shot.
The Trailboss powder I load fills the case to the base of the seated boolit, and burns clean. I get a perfect amount of velocity, and it's not as "location sensitive" as the other powders are. I'm using a gas check to make up for any error in obfuscation, etc.

More in another post.

[DukeInFlorida]

Continued:

Several variations of the game, per the rules

Keep in mind that the targets are set by the shooters, either randomly or in some sort of sequence. However, every set is entirely different from any previous set. The possibilities are endless.


"The Game" - This version of the game allows the shooters, in turn, to shoot at which ever targets they prefer. Sometimes the focus is on shooting "open targets" with no collateral damage possibilities. It still requires that each shooter shoot down TWO lollipops to "get in the game", and then an "optional target" to qualify for an animal shot. This version is the most fun for new shooters, and can be a strategic game for those more experienced. Sometimes the "easy" targets get knocked down early, and all that remains are dangerous, "fuzzy butt" shots. It's common for nickels to fly when the required shots have lots of other targets near and behind.
"The Numbers Game" - This game can be played either ascending or descending. In a descending numbers game, the lollipops are shot #1, #2, etc. And, then, when a player is "in the game" (having knocked down two lollipops), they have to shoot at #1 optional targets and #1 animal targets until all #1's are down. Then, they move to #2's. etc. The descending version starts with #19 lollipop, and #4 optional targets and animal targets, etc...
"The Sequence Game" - This game is also either ascending or descending. Once in the game (two lollipops), you choose an optional target (card suit or quit), and you have to stay with that type of target (knock down all the hearts, for example) before moving on to another optional target. Ditto with the animal targets. Once the chickens have been started, all chickens have to be knocked down before moving on to the next. It gets especially challenging when the small chickens are placed such that only a head sticks out behind a pig target.
"Screw Your Buddy Game" - This game has the shooters taking turns calling the shots for the line. Each shooter calls the shot for the line, and then the next shooter to the right takes over, and calls each shot for the shooters in turn. REVENGE is sweet in this game! Get ready for the toughest shots you can imagine. Getting in the game, and shooting an optional target to earn an animal shot still are in force.
"Yes, No Game" - This game has the line judge call the shots for each player. The player is given the opportunity to call his or her own shot, but the line judge can rule Yes or No. If a No is given, either the line judge will call the shot, or the shooter might be given an opportunity to choose another shot, also subject to Yes or No. This one becomes very similar to the Screw Your Buddy Game.
"The East/West Game" - This one is similar to the sequence game except that the rules require that the east most or the west most target has to be shot. Honesty (ILSA shooters are always honest!) is expected, and the position of the most east or the most west shot depends on where the current shooter is sitting on the line.



There are some other subtle versions of this game. I wanted to give you all an idea of the vastness of the fun to be had by six shooters on a shooting line, each taking turns shooting.

The bantering is endless. The jokes are precious. The fun is endless. And the friendships made are timeless.

[DukeInFlorida]

Strategic Considerations:

I'd really like to have Roy pipe in on this area of discussion. I'm still kind of new at the strategies. There are several types of strategies.
* Line Judge Calls
* Keep the nickels flowing
* Keep others out of the game
* REVENGE is sweet
* Setting targets so that the game is tougher or simpler, depending on the upcoming version of the game
* Amazing shots

[DukeInFlorida]

The concept of LOBBING boolits:



The velocity of about 800 feet per second allows the shooters to dial in the gun sights on the front row of targets (about 200 feet out), and also hit the back row of targets in the same aim point.
The exaggerated trajectory of these slow bullets requires that for the middle targets, you need to aim low.
It's almost like lobbing in mortars. Well, not quite, but I hope that you get the idea.
The fastest velocity (875 feet per second) allowed for small bore (850 feet per second for large bore) doesn't get you pin point accuracy and same point of aim for all targets. In this game, faster is not better. Hitting the sweet spot for velocity is more important.
The hardness of the cast boolits is important. Obfuscation is important. Read Glenn Fryxels book, previously mentioned by Keith.
The high accuracy of dispensing powder is also critical. +/- .1 grains is a minimum. We try to hold even tighter than that, which stretches the ability of the powder measure and the scale.
Most of the better shooters have spent hours and hours loading, shooting test rounds, and chrono-ing boolits before competing. Holding the gun becomes a fine art. Pulling the trigger is also a fine art.
The guys shooting LAWNSTEEL have literally millions of rounds of testing under their belts over the years of playing.

[gunarea]

Whew
That was a lot of information to address.
Lawnsteel is intended for participation of average folks with average shooting skills in a friendly game that will adjust as needed for fun, fairness and challenge. While there are some handguns that may not be well suited for Lawnsteel, the vast majority of non-custom handguns can and have been used to shoot the game. As Duke suggests, read the rules carefully. Seasoned players still blunder along making stupid mistakes due to lack of repeatative exposure to the written word. It's easy to spot though. Statements begin with; "I think", "I thought" or the more descriptive "I didn't think". The most astounding accostment had to be when a fairly new player explained, to me, that I didn't understand the intent of the rules. Priceless. Or worthless, depending on the perspective.

Tip # 1; Modern noise cancelling audio enhancing ear protective safety muffs.
Don't skimp here, the banter is part of admission and entertainment. Knowing what's going on is imperative to competent competition.


Tip # 2; Binoculars. Although the targets are easy to see, positive target identification throughout a turn can make a big difference. Six to eight power magnification with a wide field of view and large objective lens.

Tip # 3; Pay attention. In every bushel basket of verbal manure will be a truffel, try not to pass it by.

Tip # 4; Check your ego at the entrance. A full line foul = $0.25. It isn't about you! Please don't screw it up for the others playing. If you can't take it, don't dish it out! Thick skin is not only a blessing but a distinct advantage in Lawnsteel.

Tip # 5; Ask for help. Real Lawnsteel players will rush to assist.

OK you got some stuff to dwell on, I gotta go tend to my female problems.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

Oh boy tomorrow is wed. and we get to go lawn steel shooting. I am taking one of my two buddies that I shoot with to introduce him to "the game" I have told him about it and so he wants to go. another one bits the dust. So a lot of my new casting stuff has come in. I have built a casting table and my other buddy that I shoot with and I are going to smelt lead this sat. so we can get started to cast our own boolits. He also wants to see "the Game" but has to work on wed so he will make our end of the month Sunday game. I have loaded up with a new number for my 38 special to get my fps up, so I let you know how they worked out. My new 44 mag barrel is shooting way high and the sights are adjusted all the way down, because this barrel is octagon shaped the front sight is soldered on and can not be adjusted so I have come up with a system to get the back sights to adjust, so will be trying that out tomorrow to see if it works. Eddie was kind enough to sell me a 100 rounds with his loads for a 44 mag that he shoots, so I don't have to worry about getting the correct load for know. more on that after I get the pistol sighted in. Orville is helping me with that. oh yea I get to sit besides the biggest arshole in the game and rib him. he owes me, broke three toes helping him move his gun room. It was worth it though as he gave me a bunch of the secrete lube, you know, if I tell you then I half to kill you reciept. see ya at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

Hey TCLouis
Don't mean to ignore your querry, I'm retired and very good at doin nothing. I have a lot of information concerning Lawnsteel ammunition. My experience covers loading for the following handguns.
S&W models; 17, 19, 27, 29, 66, 459, 686 and 745
Colt models; combat masterpiece, police, officer, trooper, python, anaconda and 1911
Magnum research models; lone eagle and desert eagle
Ruger models; old blackhawk, new blackhawk, security six, speed six, gp100, old super blackhawk, new super blackhawk,
Redhawk and super redhawk
Thompson Center contenders, Uberti, cowboy and rolling block. High point 9 & 45.
Calibers loaded for Lawnsteel; 32, 38, 357, 40, 44 and 45.
My personal favorite powder is Alliant Promo. I have come up with a Promo load for all calibers shown and have fine tuned a load for each of the handguns listed. There are half a dozen powders which have shown to perform just as well. Expense is a factor in my choice and I load efficiently. Cast bullets have been a mainstay for me well prior to my first championship title. My experience has also shown me that without a doubt, every firearm is different. If a revolver is the subject being loaded for, then you probably have several cylinders with subtle differences within. Lawnsteel bulleteers are very aware of each indivdual cylinder characteristic and address their situations knowing full well the ramifications. While my loads are all considered quite mild, identical performance from same model handguns cannot be expected. Another critical factor lies with the indivdual doing the loading. Admittidly, my loading process is fraught with redundant, anal, unnecessary, repetive, silly, nit picky and stupid(I'm told) behavior.
The bullet of choice has a 2 ogive nose radius and a meplate one half of slug diameter. Lee, Saeco and Lyman all offer an off the shelf in .358" that weigh in around 160gr and fill the Lawnsteel bill nicely. As Duke noted, an alloy softer than Lyman #2 not only obturates better but also carries steel well at the lower velocities. The 38/357 slot will get most of the attention here as big guns have the mass to carry steel regardless. When softer alloy is used, bullet weight comes up. Lawnsteel demands the weight limit must be met. This is done with careful balancing of added tin. Ductility is the reward here and also improves the outcome.
OK now, here are some examples of what works;
All following loads use a Lyman 160gr round nose flat point, 60% fill with "Best lube"
New model blackhawk ss; 3.5 gr Promo 835fps avg dev 11fps(all 6 cylinders 18 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
S&W model 66 6"; 3.4 gr Promo 820 fps avg dev 15fps(all 6 cylinders 18 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
N/m Blackhawk 6 1/2"; 3.2 gr Promo 815 fps avg dev 12 fps(all 6 cylinders 18 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
Contender 10" 38 spec; 2.85 gr promo 814 fps avg dev 7 fps(21 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
Contender 10" 357; 3.05 gr Promo 809 fps avg dev 6 fps(21 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
(Bullets sized to .356" after slugging revealed tight bore)
Colt python 6"; 3.4 gr Promo 810 fps avg dev 22fps(all 6 cylinders 18 shot string)
38 spec cases of same headstamp used
Uberti rolling block 10"; 2.9 gr Promo 809 fps avg dev 7fps(21 shot string)
357 mag cases of same headstamp used.
*Uberti rolling block 10"; a 205 gr Saeco rnfp 2.6 gr Promo 789 fps avg dev 9fps(21
shot string) 357 mag cases of same headstamp used. Same OAL as standard ammo and
point of impact is 2" high of same point of aim at 75yds. Considered a "cheater bullet"

In 44 I use an antique Ideal/Lyman that drops a 216gr semi wadcutter Keith type bullet.
N/m Super blackhawk ss 7 5/8"; 5.1 gr Promo 812 fps avg dev 13 fps(all 6 cylinders 18
shot string) 44 mag cases of same headstamp used.
O/m Super blackhawk 7 5/8"; 4.9 gr Promo 811 fps avg dev 7 fps(all 6 cylinders 18
shot string) 44 mag cases of same headstamp used.
Lone Eagle 10"; 4.1 gr Bullseye 801 fps avg dev 8fps(21 shot string)
44 mag cases of same headstamp used.

These loads are tested thoroughly and currently in use. Promo loads are subject to change slightly when exhausting a keg and then loading from a different keg. It is the nature of Promo and part of the trade off for the reduced price. Even when lot numbers are identical, chrono work will generaly reveal a speed change on a given volume load. Volume load charges must also be weighed for comparison.
There are no secrets a true champion will need or use to win. I hope I have been of help.
Roy

[TCLouis]

Thank you gunarea.

With all of that I am all ready to compete with no range available to do so.

Think I will go re-watch the video

[gunarea]

Hey TCLouis
Practice on paper plates set from 45 yds out to 75 yds. Read the Lawnsteel rules. Watch the video. Read the Lawnsteel rules. Get you a good heavy duty lawn chair with effective slide locks.Read the Lawnsteel rules. Watch the video. Read the Lawnsteel rules. Someday you will come close enough to warrant a visit to one of the ranges which offers Lawnsteel. You just let me know. Time expended trying to learn how to play the game is best spent without costing a shot. Adjusting to the shooting postures can be done while watching TV. Practice, dry firing for smooth trigger control prior to active live fire has advantages. Read the Lawnsteel rules. Watch the video. Read the Lawnsteel rules.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention in my last book, how many loads I worked up that were not too good.
Roy

[gunarea]

Hey Boz330
Rusty is here with us playing Lawnsteel. 118626
He loves this game! That was a first place at the 2012 Ruger tournament. He and Clarence played in a shoot out that lasted a combined 41 shots of no miss. 118627 Clarence is the guy Rusty is hugging. The Ruger tournaments were a direct result of Rusty's effort in getting Ruger to give permission for corporate sanctioned tournaments. Rusty also sweet talked the (female) Ruger represenative into supplying Ruger awards. Woohoo! Give him a call and ask about Lawnsteel.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

The day went great, I have my 38 dialed in. My loads of 3 grains of bulls eye worked out great. Once I got the sights dialed in during the first game, it was accurate from there on out. The last thing I will to is do a crono on them to get the fps number. I had the best day of on target shooting that I have had since I stared playing last month. we played four games, so on the 4th game I decided to shoot my 44 barrel, so before the game Roy said let me see your barrel, he put on a make shift front sight and it worked great, it only took 3 shots to dial in the sights. So here is how I modified it to replace the make shift sight that Roy put on for me to try. He said to build it up with jb weld. so I made a mold on the sight and filled it with jb weld, it came out great. I did all the measuring of the make shift and then once everything was set up remeasured it and it came out perfect. So for right now I am not changing anything with the 38. My next project is to start to load my own 44 brass and get my load working for this barrel. I have maybe two games worth of ammo left from the batch that Eddie made for me. I am going to schmelt lead on sat to get ready to start to cast my own boolits, got most of the stuff that I ordered this past week, and should have molds and lube sizers for the 38 and 44 here next week. I have about 320 pounds of wheel weights sorted and ready to go. We also have a lot of range lead to schmelt later when Eddie gets back. Orville is going to help me get the right BHN for casting the Boolits when we get everything ready to go. Speaking of Orville, he tried out some new loads on Wed. and was struggling with them, so on the next game he changed back to his old loads and could not miss. Roy and I kept saying who are you and what have you done with Orville. He started the day out sitting next to Roy and could no hit a target. Then when he moved to the other end of the firing line we kept telling him that he was doing better because Roy could not harasses him from that far away. Oh yes that is part of the game, and Roy is the master at it. He is one nickel grubbing son of a gun. He will give you the shirt off his back, but he'll screw you for a nickel in the game. We had a new shooter, actually I brought him. He got interested after I told him about it. So I let him take my position after the first game, then Jack loaned him a gun and Gary had to go so he left his chair and table so Okie could use it. So Okie is sitting next to Roy and everytime Roy would knock down an arbitrary target he would hold out his hand to Okie and Okie would give him a nickel. finally we had to tell Okie not to do that. Man what a guy will do for a nickel. I love this game, see you at the range
Pee Wee

[Four-Sixty]

THIS IS THE MOST AWESOME THREAD EVER!

It has me wanting to buy land (even more than before) to get my own range set up. I LOVE it. Keep it up guys (and gals)!

[DukeInFlorida]

I'm hoping Pee Wee (Keith) holds off smelting Saturday. He has no formal training in doing this, and there are tons of mistakes to be made. He's already done a good thing: sorting the wheel weights by metal. Don't want any zinc in the mix. But, the cleaning up of the molten lead takes some knowledge. He's best to wait for some of us to assist him.

Gunarea, could you please address my post:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?84350-International-Lawn-Steel-shooting&p=2954295&viewfull=1#post2954295

Especially important for the new guys. I know it's not your nature to be verbose. You are much better at quick, witty, funny jabs... But there is an audience awaiting your input on strategy.

[Pee Wee]

I would like to thank Orville for taking the time out of his busy schedule to come and spend the day teaching me how to smelt my wheel weights and my pure lead into ingots. It was harder than I thought it would be, but I still had a ball doing it. Can't wait to do all the range lead that we got last week. I will then have all the mix I will need to make the bhn boolits that I will need for my loads that I will be shooting. Orville showed me how to process the lead from start to finish. Showed and told me what the different colors are when they showed in the pot and what metals they are. how to flux and what to use for the first stage thru to the final stage of fluxing. How to manage the lead while fluxing, How to ladle from the pot to filling the molds. I ended up with some nice clean ingots. We used his pot that he made from an old lp gas tank, it holds about a hundred pounds. He gave me an lp tank to make my own pot. I feel very comfortable that I will have no problem when I smelt on my own. I had 4 lee ingot molds and 4 muffin pans, save your money and get the muffin pans from the dollar tree. Pour half way, makes perfect size and weight. Also had me leave small puddle in the bottom, once it cooled take out and label which kind it was. This fits the bottom of the pot perfect, he said that this will make smelting easier next time. It will melt quicker and help to melt the same like mix next time quicker. All this so I can go shoot lawnsteel on wed. See you at the range.
Keith

[gunarea]

Alright now Duke;
You’re scaring folks. Rod Berkheimer, a nationally ranked shooter, upon his first visit exclaimed, "it's virtually impossible to miss". Oh yeah, Rod is our association match director and literally does love this game. Hitting the targets is not so tough. A chicken target will fall with nearly any bullet contact. I personally demonstrated just last Wednesday how a Ram will fall to an errant hit in the darn foot. It was quite accidental and cost me foul nickels for which everyone loudly thanked me.
As to the challenge available, individual independent stupidity will find a warm welcome here. Mr. Berkheimer has competed with his "32 vicious" at legal velocities. One of my greatest acts of arrogant ignorance was to compete using 96 gr 44 roundball. Tom Smith fared well with a 6.5mm tcu employing a special 150gr cast projectile. Robert Francis was boss shooting a 7x30 Waters although he folds like paper in every state match he has entered. My other miserable showings were a Desert eagle, 459 S&W, XP 100, H&R 999, and a list I am proud to be ashamed of. While I may be of use for those wishing to be proficient at Lawnsteel, my greatest strength would be an extensive experience of what doesn't do too good.
There are a few other quirky fun things in Lawnsteel. Any target with three unsuccessful engagements is considered elusive and therefore of mock value even though it will not yield greater nickel harvest. A loud statement of "that didn't seem so hard" being the reward of a fruitful mock.


As for actual strategy, I would have to say there may be several. The mind of the Lawnsteel player has been a subject of study by myself for almost thirty years now.
First, make an effort to take the most challenging shot available. Although it appears as an ego announcement, this will cause the shooter to more fully concentrate and focus.
Next comes chicken****itis. This defensive type of engagement is always aware of possible collateral damage within the cone of error. In Lawnsteel there are generally many options when choosing a target for engagement.
Jethro Bodine carnival freak show shots. A hit off center will cause some targets to spin wildly off to one side. There can be two explanations. The shooter purposely tries to get enough movement so as to cause a neighboring target to fall or turn out of viability. The shooter failed to hit the target squarely.
Psychological attack. Two types exist in Lawnsteel, local and general. Loudly asking a fellow shooter for a complimentary sniff of a suspected body part being infected, can be both types simultaneously. Momentary distraction in an effort to break concentration can be effective.
Power!
If you can’t hit em good, hit em hard. Large caliber permits projectiles up to 250 gr in weight. Speed limits are reduced slightly but it is a simple equation; mass X velocity = whomp. (duhh)
I'm letting the cat out of the box next. A couple silent personal games are played by seasoned Lawnsteel shooters unbeknown by most. One is the food group game, get one of every target group. It is extremely difficult to execute even when unknown and virtually impossible to complete when discovered. Then there is flocking. Getting all of any single group of targets or all of a number. These games do not net the player anything but personal satisfaction and occasionally accolades. Another favorite is toppling targets which obscure other targets and rendering otherwise challenging targets to a level virtually impossible to miss. I have watched the really good shots engage only the very most challenging targets and removing the challenge disgruntles them. Discovering the intent of one of these silent challenges can be difficult and rewarding with no verbal exchange being used.

As any Lawnsteel shooter, I will answer honestly to all questions about my ammo manufacture. There is a Lawnsteel secret! This is not going to be a sales pitch nor platform for argument or even disagreement. Lawnsteel players whom engage reloading and casting seriously are eventually gifted with this secret. It will be my pleasure to enlighten anyone who shoots Lawnsteel.
I sincerely hope my mussing will be at least entertaining if not helpful or enlightening. Please let me know what I can do to heighten enjoyment of your Lawnsteel experience.
How was that Duke?
Roy

[gunarea]

What the Champions shoot and how they shoot it
Wonder what those guys do to beat you? Wish you knew their bullet formula? What would you give to know?
Clarence Swimm 118903 shoots a Freedom arms revolver chambered in 357 magnum but shoots 38 caliber home cast bullets that aren't going 800 feet per second. He has placed somewhere in the top three spots in every Lawnsteel sanctioned event. His chair of choice is a lawn lounger. Like a moth to flame, he will completly miss a target in an attempt to make a carney booth shot and knock down two. His cheater gun is a T/C, in which he carefully rotates cartridge headstamps, thus imparting a curve into the bullets trajectory to make trick shots at obscured targets, .
Talon Waddoups, 118904 our 2010 Ruger Champion, won his title using a Super blackhawk in Bisley configuration. Talon also employs home cast projectiles, pushing them at an average velocity of 830 fps, measured eight feet from the muzzle. If you engage a target and do not topple it, bet the house, Talon will engage that target on his first opportunity. A young man, Talon is not intimidated by anorexic or charging targets and will repeatedly engage these targets. He sits in a folding beach chair, purchased at Wal-Mart. Go get you one.
Mike Bradtke's 118905 caliber choice for all divisions of Lawnsteel is the old standby, 38 caliber. Mike also chooses not to push velocity limits, his home cast, 38 caliber, 160 grain truncated cone, runs around 825 feet per second with an average deviation of 11 feet per second. Definatly not a cheater, no matter what division he may be competing in. Mike is a steady handed player that suffers from Chicken****itis and generally will select targets with little or no potential for collateral damage. A Rangemaster, Mike knows Lawnsteel inside out and is a Lawnsteel purist. He puts his butt into an old broken down Wal-Mart beach chair and fires a revolver with no use or need of a blast shield.
Then we come to one of Lawnsteel's most prestigious medal winners, Rod Berkheimer. 118906 Only recently has Rod picked up enough empty aluminum beer cans from the roadsides to buy his way out of a old broken down green resin patio chair using the pad from some other busted down piece of s#%t lying around. He also used a non-matching poolside stool as a foot rest. WARNING! This seemingly harmless ragamuffin, will beat you like a rented mule! Rod will appear to adjust the sights on every firearm he brings to the line, this ploy lulls many competitors into a false sense of superiorty. Rod often fires his Ruger Redhawk, also in an effort to ellicit sympathy from the unsuspecting.
Our beloved Rangemaster, Roy Kramer, 118907 is the most humble and unassuming individual to ever grace a Lawnsteel firing line. One of his guns is an antique Ruger, fourty years old, complete with rust and discoloration. His friends, all four of them, gave him a single shot gun, it accepts 38s. With high hopes they might be responsible, for Roy not hurting himself, with the use of a modern firearm. He is an old guy that takes a supplement similar to Geritol, which allows him the mental perflaxation needed to shoot perfect games. Non prescription, pharmacutical grade, ****itol. Roy shoots slow 38s in all divisions. Using a beach chair, also from Wal-Mart, with a rolled towel for a headrest.

Any of these Champions will gladly respond honestly and openly to questions concerning their equipment or the shooting strategy they employ. They have no desire to win by having a secret weapon or trick unknown to others. Lawnsteel champions don't want to beat you on your worst day, they will prefer to beat you on your best day.

[Pee Wee]

I was out in my reloading room loading for "the game" on wed. and just realized that I am loading rounds that I cast and made myself. My how far I have come in such a short time. I have to thank Orville, Eddie and Roy, they have given me the guidance and their knowledge to make this possible in just a months time. The gratification that I am getting from this is awesome. I have gone from just shooting at targets to a skill level that only a few people reach. Not bragging, just very amazed that I am involved in this type of shooting and loading. If you had told me a couple of mo Ago that I would be shooting an ugly single fire pistol at steel targets 50 to 60 yards away sitting in lawn chair shooting low load rounds that I cast,sized and loaded my self, I would have said you are crazy . Man I love this game. See you at the range
Keith

[Pee Wee]

Its wed. I'm off to the range for anther day to play "the Game" its raining right now 7:15 AM but supposed to clear out and be sunny by 9:00 AM. I excited to see how my sight mods are going to work on my 44 mag barrel. I have loaded 100 rounds of ammo that are all mine from casting, to sizing to loading. They are all of the same head stamp (WW) also, as per Orville. Its has to do with consistencies of the brass and how the powder reacts when fired. I let yall know how the day went. I love this game. see you at the range
Keith

[Pee Wee]

Man what a great day, the rain stopped on the way to the range, it cleared out and turned into a pretty day. We had 8 shooters today, Orville had two buddies come in for bike week that also are shooters. He let his buddies shoot in his station and after three games, Gary and Jack had to go so the new shooters played the last game. I had a great day with my 38 combo. I hit some really challenging sets of the targets, ones that are set behind another, as Roy is always telling me there is room for a bullet to get thur there, man when you hit those, you need time alone with yourself. (inside joke with lawn steel shooters) The last game I put on the 44 barrel and discovered that my front sight was to wide for the rear sights, had the up and down on line but could not see side to side. That's ok because I am still working on it. Still shooting the loads that Eddie made for me, once I get the barrel sighted in I will then start to work on my own loads. Still waiting on my 44 mold and sizers, should be here in another week or so. Man I really love this game, see you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

PeeWee and others, like myself, are finding that the generosity of most shooters (and certainly ALL lawnsteel shooters) is boundless. Not many situations when a person will give up their seat, hand you a gun and ammo, and walk you through the fine points while you are preparing to shoot. But, that's how it is in lawnsteel. We'll share all our recipes. All our techniques. Help tweak and tune your gun. Drive distances to show you how to cast and smelt. Share endless telephone conversations on a myriad of subjects relating to reloading, shooting, guns, barrels, lead aquisition, boolit casting, powder selection, etc. All with a smile. And, without fear that we're sharing too many hard earned secrets.

It's NOT at all about competing with YOU. It's much more about competing with ourselves. It's the part of this shooting game I like the most. It's really about pushing the boundaries of MY OWN abilities and skills. I'm happy to share what I know, and have learned, mistakes and successes. Because I know that even with my knowledge, it's still you, making the ammo, holding the gun, and pulling the trigger. And, you're likely to mess up from time to time, and I'll happily take your nickels. And, as long as you mess up more than I do, I'll make more nickels than you.

The guys talk about the day (which hasn't happened for me yet) when you shoot a perfect game. That means knocking down every called target, with no fouls. While that would be a great day...... for me the better day would be the day when everyone on the line goes home with every single nickel they came with. Where the whole line shoots a perfect game. That would be an amazing moment in time.

We're proud of you, PeeWee (Keith). And, we are happy that you still love the game. It ***IS*** addicting. And, nearly the most fun you can have while reclined in a chair.

[Pee Wee]

What a great day, it's wed. And we had a great day at the range shooting "the game". I could not hit the side of a barn today. But I still had a fun day. Orville was on today, he's got his 38/357 barrel dialed in. He hit a couple of really challenging shots, one that he needed some time alone. It was one of those shots that he will not forget for awhile, I know I won't. My 38 mold came to day, actually two showed up, did not get the 44 mold, had to call and reorder the 44 mold and get an RA # for the second 38 mold. I can now cast my own boolits. I'll let you know how that goes.
man I love this game. See you at the range.
Keith

[Pee Wee]

Ya, today is wed, get to go shoot "the game". I spent yesterday at the club in bay 7 painting all the targets. They had gotten really dull and hard to see from all the hits they had taken and from the muddy water that had been in bay 7 from all the rain we had. Afterwards Oriville let me shoot his sig 223 with this special bullett that he made, ( I think he is a bullet wizerd with all the knowledge and special bullets that he swagges himself) and he gave me a good lesson on how not to jerk the trigger. This is a problem I have been having, off and on, so now I have a pre shot process that will help with that. So thank you Oriville. Will let ya'll know how the day went.
see you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

Dear Diary,
One of my best days yet. Came home with a BUNCH more nickels than I went with. For months, shooting the #2 lillipop "could" get you immediately into the game. It requires two lollipops to get into the game, and jokingly, knocking down the #2 achieved that for some in the one shot. Today, I was the second shooter, and had access to the #2 lollipop, and so I asked the line judge if that got me into the game. Gamearea (Roy) was the line judge, and remarked, "Hell no! That means that you have to shoot down two MORE lollipops! Ah hahaha"

Nickel grubbing, plain and simple. I shot down two more lollipops in short order, and managed to get quickly into the game, and collected a bunch of their damned nickels. Hahaha Joke was on them.

PeeWee, after earlier successes, had a terrible day today. He needs some trigger time. He spent much of today jerking the trigger.

[Pee Wee]

Well as Orville noted, I had a terrible day shooting but had one of the best days shooting lawn steel. a guy just shouldn't be allow to have this much fun shooting. Even on a bad day it was a great day. Orville had his best day shooting since I started playing "the game" he has his 38 dialed in. I have the jerks, so Orville gave me a cap to use and he and the guys suggested that I practice shooting the TV. So guess what I have been doing. hopefully by next wed I will have the bad ju ju out of my system. On a different note, I received my new molds this past week, and just waiting on the mold handles, then I can cast my own boolits and be on my way making my own rounds. I think I am eat up with it, Roy made a comment that I might have a casting problem, meaning that I may be like Eddie, I shoot to support my casting problem. I blame He, Eddie and Orville, they sucked me into this and I can't help myself, I addicted. What a great addiction.
however, I think Orvilles plan was to get someone else into this so he would no longer be the new guy. yea that's it. sooooooooooooooo, back to the TV so I can practice some more, cause I want to be a nickel grubber to.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Damn......... Keith figured out my scheme to make him the new guy....... (all he has to do is bring in a permanent player who is as addicted as he is, and Keith will get replaced as the new guy.)

New guy or not, Keith, you have replaced me as the nickel fountain..... I used to go through a whole roll or two of nickels every time I played. Now, I am using the same 30 nickels over and over and over again.... Working on making the pile grow.

I am getting a strong sense that Eddie regrets selling you that Contender..... He's actively looking for another.....

[Pee Wee]

Yea, I need to find a new guy. Well, I spent the last 3 hours casting my first run of boolits both 38s & 44. They came out perfect. So I will be loading my own loads shortly. I have everything for the 38 and waiting on lube & sizing die for 44. Its on back order. This was my first time casting all with my own stuff, the 38s were easier than the 44s. The 38s took one pour to get everything right, mold came right up to temp. The 44 mold did not, I had to increase the flow of the bottom pour pot and it took 6 pours to get the temp right. I cast 500 38s and 200 44 boolits, next step is lube & sizing. Then load. Speaking of loading, I had sent off my dillion 550 to be refurbished it got back sat. I got this for $200.00, it was missing several parts and rusted, dillon charged me $67.99 for the refurb . Man they replaced every thing that was missing fixed every thing that rusted and every thing that was missing for that price of 67! See you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

At lawnsteel yestersay, we took a look at PeeWee's castings. They were a little underfilled at the edges. A little tin solder will fix that right up. Hardness was right where it was supposed to be. He's well on his way.

PeeWee didn't do well at the range. It's not his reloading, it's his shooting, including trigger pull, grip, etc.

I brought by best fried Andy to shoot with us. On Monday, I gave Andy some trigger time with my 38 special contender barrel. Walked him through all the finesse of dealing with this gun. Of course, I won't allow him to touch the sights, they are set perfectly for me. So, he spent the time Monday,. and again yesterday (Wednesday) dealing with aiming in some space not specifically where the targets were. Andy managed to get into both games that he shot in, earlier than PeeWee did. The "new guy" (Andy) did well.

PeeWee delivered (to me) an 8# container of Promo powder, the preferred powder for 38 caliber lawnsteel. I'm in business again. I was down to less than 100 cartridges of Red Dot.

PeeWee is coming by the house this morning, and I'll lend him my 44 caliber sizing die for the Lyman Lubricizer, and a top punch that will work with his castings. I'm also giving him some anhydrous lanolin that I got from Randy Rat ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?96820-Pure-Anhydrous-Lanolin ) , so that PeeWee can make some spray lube for rifle brass. I have packaged three small film containers with lanolin. One film canister, mixed with two bottles of HEET (RED) dry gas, which is 99% isopropyl alcohol, in a dollar store spray bottle, makes almost a quart of great spray lube, essentially the same as Dillon's great lube. So, thanks for the powder, Keith.

After a full morning of lawnsteel, Andy and I went to Gunarea's land, and did some pig hunting. No animals were injured, but there are tons of them out there.

[Pee Wee]

Ok, I have new glasses. I have been having trouble seeing the line of sight. Everything was fuzzy, also from straining to get my eyes to focus they were watering. I will know wed. if they helped. I was going to go to the range today and chronograph 38 & 44's to get the right powder load but it started to rain and is supposed to rain all day today, cold front coming in so I'll do it after we shoot wed.. I also got an optic aid so I will see if that helps. However, I am still having a great time doing this, it is a great hobby and the people are the best ever, really feel very fortunate to have met all of these guys and they are so helpful and knowledgeable. Thank you "Duke" For the lanolin and the recipe for the case lube, it works great. It smells and works like the dillon lube. We should be smelting soon, it's cooling down and Eddie's back from N.C.
See you at Range.
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

The lanolin comes from Randy Rat ( http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?96820-Pure-Anhydrous-Lanolin ) if you need some more. The three 35mm film containers should be enough lanolin for quite a while. For those wondering, I use a 35mm film canister's worth of Randy Rat's lanolin, with TWO of the red bottles of HEET brand (the red bottles are 99% isopropyl alcohol, the yellow bottles are methyl alcohol. Use the isopropyl - red- version) dry gas, in a dollar store quart sized spray bottle. Shake the heck out of it..... Comes out perfect every time for lubing brass cases.

We shot today. We had a bunch of shooters show up, and I offered to sit out for two of the four games (so that some of the shooters who have missed a lot of shooting could get some trigger time in.) I still ended up four lets (nickels) ahead for the day. Well, even better than that..... One of the players passed me a 1937 Indian Head nickel in VERY good condition. I'm guessing it's at least worth $5. So, I won the big prize for the day. I'm always checking my nickels!

The target sets were great fun (it's set completely different every time we play, at the whim of the volunteers who set them up.) today, with many challenging shots. Many of the targets were tucked behind other targets with only a sliver of target actually showing to the line of shooters. Some of the larger animal targets seemed almost super glued to the ground, barely budging, even when hit in the right place with 44 and 45 caliber bullets. Because the bullet velocity is so slow, placement on a target is critical for knocking them down.

The weather was darn near perfect. Like natural air conditioning, under virtually cloudless skies. Any day is a good day to be out shooting. Today was an especially exceptional one. And, I was up 4 lets, plus the Indian Head nickel! Thanks to all who donated to my pile.

I have some load development to do. I am switching from Red Dot (my tried and true powder for 38's) to Promo, also made by Alliant. I know it has a similar burn rate to Red Dot, and is a bit more dense. I've been loading 3.0 grains of Red Dot behind a 160 grain cast 38 caliber bullet, at about 7 hardness. I'm aiming for about 310 feet per second velocity. I'll report back after load development.

For those still on the fence about this game, feel free to contact me. I'd be happy to have some phone conversation. Send me a PM, and I'll get you my telephone number. In the past few weeks, we've had 5 new shooters (never shot lawn steel before) try the game, and all raved about how much fun it was. One of those was my best friend, Andy, who was down for a week (pig hunting, eating and drinking, and lawnsteel, not all in that order) said that the week was a lot more fun than his vacation with his wife four weeks earlier to Myrtle Beach. Yes, it's that much fun!!!

[Michael J. Spangler]

Anyone shooting lawnsteel in New England?
I might be down in Florida in February but might not have free time.

[gunarea]

Hello Michael
There are no Lawnsteel facilities North of the Mason Dixon line. When you come down, make a point of playing some Lawnsteel with us. The range is between Disney world and Daytona beach. Four lane divided highway brings you from all directions. Volusia county gun and hunt club is the location for you to find, they have a website. Give us some notice and all you will need is a butt load of nickles for your first taste. This would furnish a great excuse for us to schedule an extra morning of Lawnsteel play. Make the time! After you come play, tell others what a waste of time it was.
Roy

[Michael J. Spangler]

That's awesome thanks man!
I'll be down in Naples on the 5-8 of February. Not sure how close that is but I'll check a map right now.
Thanks for the generous offer. I really hope I can make it.

[Pee Wee]

Michael, you are about 4 hours away from Volusia county gun and hunt club. You would take I-75 north to I-4 East then take state rd 44 east about 5 miles to the entrance to the club. Hope you can make it.

[DukeInFlorida]

I know Michael. From northeast shooters. He's a heck of a custom knife maker. Michael, you are very welcome to come and shoot if you can make the time. I'll spot the gun and the ammo.

[Michael J. Spangler]

thanks duke!

might be a tough one for me. i'm down there on a trip i won at work. i don't know if i could convince the wife to let me head a couple hours away to spend the day shooting.
i think she might go with me just so she could get a chance to shoot me.

i have a bunch of friends up here that love the idea of lawn steel. i think it's time to read the rules a little more and try out a friendly match up here

[Pee Wee]

Michael,
dont do it, you well be hooked like an addict on drugs. It's horrible you have to learn all kinds of new information, get into doing things that you never thought about before. Then if your like me and get lucky enough to find mentors like I did (see dealers) like Orivell, Roy and Eddie they just keep feeding you and keep you sucked in. Naaaaaaa, just kidding you will enjoy the best shooting you ever did.
Pee Wee

[Michael J. Spangler]

peewee
thats what i'm worried about!!

[Pee Wee]

Man, what a day. I had a great day playing "the game" today. I've got my loads dialed in for now and I'm shooting better than I have since I started playing. However it was unusually cold for us here in cent. Florida and (high 30s) if I could stop shaking to make the shot. We normally shoot 4 games but we shot 3 games today due to how cold it was, oh yea the wind was also blowing so I dont know what the wind chill factor was. So Orville, Eddie and I mined range lead, it finally warmed up and we started peeling of layers of clothes. I had to leave at 3:00 for a Drs. Appt. Eddie and Oriville stayed to finish up. See you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

1,000 pounds of range lead today...... YIKES!

I developed and hosted the FREE cast bullets workshop for NorthEast Shooters members for several years, and introduced casting bullets to a LOT of people during those events. I didn't realize how instrumental I might have been to those workshops...... they haven't had one since I developed the cancer and could no longer participate.

So, while PeeWee (Keith) thinks that teaching others the fine art of bullet casting is a new thing, it's actually "old hat"... We're always happy to share our knowledge of the shooting sports with others. Keith has also already asked me to show him the bullet swaging that I do. Happy to share that also.

I did so-so today. Lost a few of the nickels that I accumulated in the past few weeks. However, some of today's payouts were for fouls which occurred when taking risky shots at extremely tough targets. I'm no longer shy about taking those shots. I'm going to try to remember to take photos of the target setups next week. Both a shot from the target area view, and another of what that set up looks like from the shooters positions. It will give people a sense for how dynamic the game is. The third game today was set up by "Evil Roy" and we played the "Sequence Game, Ascending"... Some of the targets were stacked five deep. With lots of collateral opportunities for fouls. One of our regulars brought his son, and he was the "nickel fountain" for the day.

Eddie was amazingly "ON" the mark today, hitting virtually every target he shot at. He did manage to foul a couple of times. We all did. It's Evil Roy's fault! LOL

If you can get away, Michael, we'd be happy to allow you and the Mrs to shoot! At the same time! Just hope she's not a better shot than you are. That would/could be embarrassing.

[DukeInFlorida]

BTW, here are the pictures from the FIRST free cast bullet workshop I did for NES:

Workshop Pictures NES workshop 2009 (http://sebagosales.com/castworkshop/)

[Michael J. Spangler]

i have to say duke that workshop did wonders for all of new england seriously.
first off all no-one was able to pick up where you left off. which stinks but goes to show you how much work you put into it.
singe i learned i have taught 2 friends, one of which has "showed" a few friends how it works but they haven't followed up and really learned how on their own.
its an awesome gift that keeps on giving. if i haven't said it recently, thank you again for teaching me.

back to the game.
i doubt i'll be able to go. i can say the wife has always proven to be an awesome shot. from the .22 to the 45-70 with hot loads. she shoots it all. just not often enough.

[Pee Wee]

o' boy, it's tuesday, get to go play "the game" tomorrow. Eddie and I had planned on mineing lead yesterday but that did not work out, so we smelted. I had to leave for a Drs. Appt. before we poured into the moulds so I owe Eddie big time for finishing up. I Get to introduce another friend of mine to the game. We partnered up to reload and cast togather. His job does not give him the opportunity to shoot on weds. But due to the thanksgiving holiday he has this wed off and is going with me, I told him all he needs to bring is nickels. He has been dying to come and see what this game is all about that I have been talking about. Hope you all have a happy turkey day. See you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Turkey day report:

In the midst of the tail end of a heavy tropical rainstorm (5+ inches in 24 hours), the die hard LawnSteel shooters showed up at the club Wednesday morning. We found the club (virtually ALL shooting bays) under water. The assistant CRSO declared the club closed, but we kicked it into high gear with Plan B.

Eddie has a full LawnSteel range set up behind his house, and it has awesome drainage. We had a full line, 6 shooters, show up, albeit it late. We managed two games, and then several of us, me included, had to run off for various reasons. Mine was to prepare for massive quantity bread baking for Turkey dinner. PeeWee had a heck of a time getting going. And, most of my shots were on the money (nickels!) I'm way ahead on nickels. Not quite a nickel grubber, but I am perfecting that skill also.

Anyone who finds themselves coming to Florida to vacation, or visit relatives, friends, etc........ let me know, and I'll be happy to introduce you to Lawnsteel, either at my currently soggy club, or at Eddie's range (he's always willing to arrange a no-notice game!)

Michael, there are several successful casters still in the New England area. It's likely that no one shares the passion for sharing the skills like I was. While I did charge for my reloading classes, the cast bullets workshop was always intended to be a free learning experience.

[gunarea]

Thanks to my fellow Lawnsteel shooters
My new gun cave is fully operational now. The first casting run had a few hiccups with me searching for this and that but I managed 435 devastators cast, sized and lubed in just over three hours. Second run was much better having done 634 in two and a half hours. That time included neck size and decap 408, 357 brass while the pot came up to temp. While almost identical to the other setup, moving has a tendency to hide this and that.
It is true the **** are becoming much better shots and hence much more competitive. They are forcing me into a behavior pattern of a Rat Bastard to maintain my nickel grubber status. Several occasions saw me resorting to the use of my horse killing gun(44). Fortunately I have succeeded in convincing them real men use small caliber. Pee Wee and Duke hate being designated as *** so bad they are bringing others to play and shed their label onto them(sound of the Jeopardy wrong answer buzzer).
Some of the boys are going to go try NRA Hunter pistol this Sunday. Best of skill to them from me. I soo look forward to hearing how they do at it. Maybe we will all get to read just how well they do. Lawnsteel shooters have done quite well competing at state level Hunter pistol. But I must confess, as a group we were labeled "The Samsula Ruffians". Only one Lawnsteel shooter has asked me for any guidance in preparation to go shoot Hunter pistol silhouette. Now I'm gonna go send him an e-mail with specific loads that netted me a couple of Florida state golds in large caliber iron sight division. I honestly do wish them all to have an admirable shoot.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

It's the season, so happy holidays to everyone. This past month has been a busy one. Playing "the game" has been a mixed bag. Had good games for the past 3 but last wed, was not that good. So overall I am happy with my shooting. Roy and Oriville continue with advice and support. We have been smelting range lead for the past month. Eddie did two days by himself, so far we have around 1500 lbs. We smelted 7hrs. Yesterday and did 500lbs. We have a pile on the pad and I thought we could get that done yesterday, It looks like we still have a thousand lbs. left to do. Maybe two more days will do it. A man can't have enough lead. The caveiat to all of this range lead is the hulls go to the salvage yard and get .45 cents per pound. Eddie and Oriville took a batch and traded them for more lead. Oriville is a range safty officer at gun club where we shoot lawnsteel at and range 7 is back all by it self. He got the owner to ok the lawnsteel assoc. to put up a shed so we can store our equipment there. So we are looking for an economical priced shed to buy. If you know of or hear about one let us know. Hope everyone gets that new reloading dodad you want for Christmas. Have a happy new year.
see you at the range.
pee wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Happy holidays to one and all.

We will be celebrating Christmas by having our usual lawn steel shoot on this coming Wednesday, which is Christmas Eve Day. I encourage all of our shooters to wear silly hats, and or ugly sweaters. The last couple of days have been so nice and warm that it might actually be uncomfortable to wear sweaters. But, let's have fun. We are also shooting on Sunday, Dec 28th, and again on New Year's Eve Day. If you are in Florida vacationing for the holidays, come and join us. We'll let you borrow a gun, and supply some ammo for a game or two.

After a long day of smelting (yesterday) with PeeWee (Keith), I went home and took a shower and changed, and went to a Christmas party in South Daytona with some friends. Pot Luck dinner was served OUTSIDE, and I was comfortable with a tee shirt on. It's wonderful to be here, in this part of the world, enjoying weather that allows us to shoot nearly every day of the year.

I plan on shooting this coming Wednesday, the 28th, and December 31st. I'll go kayaking on New Years Day, if anyone wants to join me.

I'm working on getting a Lyman 38 caliber mold on line, so I can capitalize on all that lead we have been processing. Easy Eddie has been doing my casting for me, but he's soon gonna be out of that job.

"I LOVE this game!"

[Pee Wee]

I just can't stand it, wed is coming up and I will not be able to play "The Game", got to go to the Drs. this getting old really sucks. But all is not lost, I will be able to shoot on Sunday, and then on the Wed. after that. I had to send my RCBS furnace that Roy gave me back to RCBS to get refurbished, it developed a serious leak 2 weeks ago when I was casting, I had just gotten 20lbs melted and was starting to pour and she just opened up and dumped the whole 20lbs in about 2 min, luckily I had a small tin that held all of the lead that leaked out. Now I have a 20lb ingot, I don't think it is going to fit back in the pot, may have to cut it down. I am hoping that it gets back pretty soon, as I am out of 38 cal. boolits. I have 250 loaded but that will only last about three days of "The Game." Orville is right about the weather, I have been picking up range lead a couple pounds at a time at the range whenever I go and have about three gallons bucket full, so this afternoon I decided that it was time to clean it and get it ready to smelt for my 9mm and 45acp. It was so darn hot I was sweeting cleaning them, then it started to rain finally got them cleaned and ready to go. 80 degrees on Dec. 21 can you believe it, man I do love it here, well got to go size and lube some 45s. hope everyone has a wonderful holiday.
I love This Game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[Michael J. Spangler]

i'm so jealous. this game sounds amazing.
i wish my vacation spot in the spring were a little closer. ah well. maybe next year
until then i'll keep up with it on here and live through the forums

[DukeInFlorida]

WX for tomorrow's shoot is 80 degrees.

Wearing my Santa hat might cause some sweating while shooting.

Michael, just tell her that you have an important business trip to Daytona. Or, fly Allegient (spelling?) airlines into Sanford Intl airport. Round trip under $200.
You can stay here.

[DukeInFlorida]

Well, the WX broke records for this area. It was 80 F when this picture was taken.
Me, in the middle, fast Eddy on my right (your left), and GunArea (Evil Roy) on my left, your right:
125256

[DukeInFlorida]

Sunday, December 28th... 82 degrees on the shooting line, partly cloudy.

The club allows us to shoot an occasional Sunday, when the shooting bay where we shoot isn't being used for anything else. Today was such a Sunday. The nice thing about shooting Sundays (versus our normal Wednesdays) is that some of the shooters who still work for a living (and can't otherwise shoot on a Wednesday work day) can join us for a few games.

So, today we had a couple of those guys join us (Brian and Rusty). Brian, who is normally a very good shot, was having an "off day", which helped me gain some of his nickels. Rusty was doing so-so (he's usually a VERY good shot). Gary and Pee Wee didn't do well either, which was great for me. I was the nickle grubber today.

Sure, I fouled a couple of times..But, I also hit MOST of the animal targets when they came my way. I started off with a mere 20 nickels, and almost tripled the pile by the end of the day.

My next project is to develop a 44 Special load for my 44 caliber contender.

Most of the shooters (not all) have found that 38 specials fired in a 357 magnum barrel work better than 357 magnum fired in the barrel. The primary reason for it is that the powder loads are so very light that reducing the size of the pressure vessel provides a more consistent transfer of energy to the bullets. I'm hoping that the 44 specials do the same in a 44 magnum barrel, vs the 44 magnums that I have been shooting (also with extremely light powder loads.) I had to do some searching to find enough 44 special brass to make a worthwhile test. And, if it works out the way I hope, I needed to have enough 100's of brass to make up a reasonable amount of shooting cartridges. I'll report findings as they develop.

[Pee Wee]

yea, I can post again, I have not been able to post for awhile, went in and set up my profile and changed my e-mail and it would not let me post. Wed. Dec.31st, We shot today at Eddies, it was a cool drizzly day but we shoot from under a covered area so the drizzle did not affect us however Jack and Orville wore shorts and the cool wet air made it tuff on them. I had a great day shooting, I was a nickel grubber today. I don't know what happend to Orville, but every time he sits next to Roy he "as Orville says shoots like ****" I do want to brag on Orville from last Sunday. For the 3rd game I was the line judge and we were playing the numbers game, ascending, this means that you shoot all of the 1s then the 2s and so on, when it was Orville's turn to shoot he was to shoot the ram 2,(they are very hard to bring down, you have to shoot them at the top of the head by the horns) Brian had put a clay on the rams horns, Orville called his shoot which was Ram 2 with the clay on the horns, so as line judge I told Orville that he had to shoot the clay and knock down the ram, if he knocked down the ram and did not hit the clay it would be a foul, so he would have to pay the line nickels, he asked to recall his shot and I told him f%*k no, (this is how you refuse a request from the line as line judge) so he proceed to hit the clay and knock down the ram, by the way I told him if he hits the clay and knocks down the ram it would pay double, so he can thank me for being the nickel grubber on sun. I have to thank Orville for my good shooting today, I have switch to new brass and a different head stamp, and he gave the pointers that help me shoot the best games I have shot so far. Man I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[Certaindeaf]

Wow. This has me absolutely giddy at only page 1 3/4. My face hurts after watching that fist video. will continue to read

[DukeInFlorida]

Pee Wee's comment about changing brass is an important one for any and all potential Lawn Steel shooters....

Even though 38 special is 38 special, each manufacturer has their own method for making the brass cases. The case volume, and the wall thickness, and even the stretchiness of the brass varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. So, shooting MIXED headstamps in this precision game is a struggle at best. The shots will vary wildly.

Shooting all one headstamp is a key factor in this game. And, sticking to that headstamp requires having a large enough inventory of brass to load several hundred of the same thing all the time.

The castings all have to be the same, the powder charge has to be the same, and even the brass head stamp all has to be the same.

So, Pee Wee switched from Winchester headstamped brass to Federal, and was shooting a mix of both, and couldn't figure out why his shots were all over the place. He sorted out the Federals that he will now concentrate on, and re-tuned his sights to those, and started hitting with amazing accuracy.

(He owes me a $1 for that one)

[gatortommy]

I have GOT to make the drive down from Jax to shoot with you guys. I worked up a 200 gr. load for my 5" 625 that's grouping pretty well at 50 yards. Maybe next week...?

[Pee Wee]

Hey gator tommy, come on down you are at at the most an hour and a half away. Go south on I-95 till you get to the state rd 44 exit. This is the New Symra exit, you well go rt at the exit. You will go west, I think it's about 7 miles to the entrance to Volusia County Gun club. A land Mark we'll be two tall radio towers on the left, just past those you well see the entrance to the club. Just a big field no buildings, look for small sign and a entrance rd. We arrive at 8:00 am to set up and we are usually shooting about 8:30 to 8:45 we shoot 4 games if we do a timed game it runs 55 min. Untimed about the same or a little longer. We usually are done and leaving around 1:30. If we have more than 6 shooters, we switch off so every on can shoot. The only thing that you will need is a but load of nickols. We well have everything you will need to shoot. I do owe Orville a Dollar. I well gladly pay him on wed. I well continue to hone my shooting with the 38 special loads Until I am comfortable that I have perfected my loads. Then I well start workin on my 44 loads. That's a whole nether can of worms. I well get into that on another day. I love this game. See you at the range
Pee Wee

[gatortommy]

OK, I'm in. I'll be there at 8a with a pocket full of nickels.

Tom

[Pee Wee]

Ok see you wed. I will have extra rounds with me for you to shoot, along with my pistol.
See you at the range. Hey Orville, a ***.

[TCLouis]

What happens if one runs outa nickels?

Finished for the day?

Somehow the nickels seem to be the least important part of this game though they are used to keep score.

[DukeInFlorida]

If you do HORRIBLY, fouling on every shot and such, the payout per foul is 5 nickels (one to each of the other players).. You can foul like that 8 times (which is almost unheard of), because there are 40 nickels in a roll. The suggestion is to bring three rolls of nickels (a whopping $6 worth!!... high stakes, eh??).. Some of the active shooters have extra emergency nickels available. The running joke is that those cost $1 each. One of our best shooters, Honest Rob, actually has the record for the most fouls in a game. We all have to start somewhere.


What happens if one runs outa nickels?

Finished for the day?

Somehow the nickels seem to be the least important part of this game though they are used to keep score.

The nickels are NOT used to keep score of the game. They are merely the penalty for fouls and safety violations. And, also the reward for shooting and knocking down a called animal target. The place in the game is kept by each player, themselves. To a new ear, it sounds like we are reciting some weird mantra. However, it's merely that we are announcing where we are in the game.
Examples:
* When we are just beginning the game, and haven't shot at anything yet: "I'm not in the game, and I have no lollipops, I'll take a shot at lollipop#... (which ever is the appropriate lollipop to shoot at"
* Presuming that you have knocked down one lollipop (it takes TWO lollipops to get "in the game"): "I'm not in the game, but I do have a lollipop, I'll engage lollipop number... (which ever lollipop is appropriate to shoot at... that changes with the version of the game we play, as decided and announced by the appointed Line Judge)
* Presuming that you have knocked down two lollipops, your next shot: "I'm IN the game, but I do not have an animal shot, I want to shoot... (there are a number of "arbitrary" targets, non-animal, which would be engaged, depending on the game called by the line judge)
Up to now, the only nickels that exchange hands are IF a safety violation happens, or IF you accidentally shoot down a target not called. "quit 3" might be located slightly behind lollipop 4, and if, while shooting AT lollipop 4, you miss, and knock down "quit 3", that's a foul, and you pay each person on the line a nickel. This foul doesn't change your place in the game.

* Presuming that you have knocked down the called arbitrary target, you are then "IN THE GAME: I'm IN the game, and have an animal shot. I'll shoot at ...." (which ever animal is appropriate, depending on the nature of the game which the Line Judge announced at the beginning).. If you knock that animal down, you get paid a nickel by each of the other shooters, and your next shot will be another arbitrary target shot. You have to earn an animal shot by achieving a arbitrary target knockdown.

Ok, sounds complicated, right? It's really not..... Once you get past the shyness of loudly announcing where you are in the game, it's all about your shooting ability, and the strategies of avoiding fouls, and making the game difficult for those after you. Knocking down the only open "club" (when playing the sequence game, where you have to knock down each of the clubs, sequentially) while leaving the rest of the clubs dangerously behind other targets is a great way to earn nickels from the others who are likely to foul. Sometimes you earn nickels from your great shooting of called animal targets, and sometimes you earn nickels because others screw up and foul.

Gator Tommy and others......... The game requires ONLY cast lead bullets (boolits) be fired at the targets. There is a maximum velocity allowed. The arc of the flight of the bullets is significant. Don't bring jacketed bullets or hot loads. You won't be allowed to shoot those. We'll lend anyone who shows up a gun and ammo for the day. And, from experience, a 5" barrel may do well for you at 150 feet. But we are shooting at 200+ feet, at somewhat small target areas on the steel.... To knock a typical ram down, you have to hit it in the top of the horns, a 4-5 square inch area. And, some shots are blocked by non-shootable targets. We often say, "There's enough room for a bullet to get through"... but just barely. I tried with a 4" Ruger GP100 on my first time out, and failed miserably. Single shot pistols and revolvers with 8-10" barrels fare much better at this game. As long as you are shooting non-hot load cast boolits, you're welcome to give your gun go.

We shoot 6 shooters on a line. Last Wednesday, New Years Eve Day, we had 9 shooters. We took turns sitting out, watching the fun, and coaching one of the new guys who showed up to shoot. Heck, Easy Eddie even supplied that new shooter (his brother in law) the nickels for the occasion. Thanks, Eddie, for the additions to my nickel pile. As such, there's always a spare gun and matching ammo available to allow anyone a chance to shoot.

Oh, and...... There is no "winner" of the game. We strive to "beat the game" meaning knock down all of the available animal targets during the allotted time and alternate targets. That actually seldom happens. We sometimes run out of the 50 minute time limit (when we actually keep track of the time of the game), or shoot down all alternate targets while failing to shoot down all of the animal targets.

Usually, no one knows, at the end of the day, how many nickels you actually won or lost (vs how many you showed up with)... It's a lot of fun and laughing, while shooting very safely, and that's why we do it. Afterwards, we often talk about "amazing shots" one of us accomplished. Or, double fouls that occasionally happen (double pay out). There's only a rough sense of who did really well on a particular day. No certainty on that. Only when we have a formal "tournament" are there trophies and prizes. And, those are for most nickels for the day, worst foul, best animal shot, etc... The regular Wednesday shoots are all about fun. They also give us an opportunity to really test run our development loads. You don't wanna fire untested loads during a shoot. That's just gonna cost you a bunch of nickels! Then again, where else can you compete with the funniest guys I know, and even it it all goes to ****, the worst cost is a few rolls of nickels($2, $4, or $6) for 5 hours of such great fun!

I'm a Yankee from New England, but suffice it to say, "Ya'll welcome to join us!"

[Pee Wee]

That is the best description of basic's of how the game is played and why I play. Along with the precison shooting required to be successful in the game. The fellowship among these guys is the best.good job Oriville. I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

OK now
Gotta get in here and straighten out a couple of things. Three distinct groups of targets exist at the beginning of a game of Lawnsteel. Those being; Lollipop, Arbitrary and Animal. One recognized variation of Lawnsteel, the Sportsman game, having only two distinctions with Lollipops being excluded as mandatory. Once "In the game", all non-animal targets are then considered Arbitrary targets. Lollipops assume Arbitrary designation to those "In the game" and earn animal shots with successful engagement. A few of our Lawnsteel players(rat ********) are very aware of the ramifications of Lollipop eradication. (It sucks!)
Nickels are but one acceptable token form. Token value and form is determined by an authorized ILSA official prior to any ILSA sanctioned event. ILSA sanctioned events have seen irresponsible behavior from empowered persons imposing severe, impossible, ridiculous, stupid and outrageous token value and form parameters. Just to cover my exaggerations here are but a few examples; Tootsie rolls, wooden nickels, quarters, shots, cards and individually wrapped Mary Janes. Written score is also employed when set forth officially and makes for a different game. Exploration of Lawnsteel the game will reveal treasures and trivia unimagined.
The pinpoint accuracy referred to earlier is a thing common as air and elusive as Bigfoot sightings. Hours and pages could be dedicated to the mind set involved in Lawnsteel play. Just two weeks ago, Eddie shot a perfect no miss game. Last week he was disgruntled with unintentional fouls. Major disgruntle! Hidden or obscure targets can challenge a player with almost impossible positive outcome. Missing a wide open Joe corpsman demands 30 minutes on the *** kicking machine.
You folks are being led down the yellow brick road towards a nickel rendering facility operated as a pyramid scheme by **** directed by Rat ******** with rat bastard filling. I love this game!
Ask me about Lawnsteel, go on, I dare you.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

Ok, who woke up Evil Roy, just for you guys that don't know, Evil Roy he is the father of lawn steel, I wish I had gotten involved in the International lawn steel assoc. sooner than I did but am delighted that I was blessed to get involved now. We smelted down the last of our range lead today. I think we have around 2000 lbs. well give the amount when we weigh it. Just two more days and I get to play "The Game". I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

The Arbitrary Targets, for purposes of specificity, are:

Hearts, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Diamonds, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Spades, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
Clubs, four of them, either not numbered, or numbered 1, 2, 3, 4 (our set is numbered, and this version makes for easier target calling)
"QUITS", twelve of them, usually numbered. They are rectangular tombstone looking targets.

It's common, when we run out of these targets during a game, to return to shooting down the remainder of the lollipops, as Arbitrary Targets.

It's sometimes allowed, when ruled by the line judge at the beginning of the game, to use lollipops as Arbitrary Targets right away. This is a bane to new shooters who are having trouble getting their two lollipops down (to get in the game), since the lollipops are their only path to getting in the game. That's what Roy refers to in his earlier dialog. "Rat ********" are a term of endearment defining those who seek to inflict the highest level of difficuilty on others, for the purpose of extracting nickels, Mary Jane candies, etc.

I always bring fresh roasted and brewed coffee from home (for myself). They have yet to call for payment in doughnuts!

Oh, and before I forget..... Last Wednesday (New Years Eve Day), Roy ended up with a cardboard nickel looking thing on his table. He kept incredulously looking at me as if I had anything to do with it. Not guilty. Neither am I guilty of passing him pennies recently, during the heat of a game. We do save and pass very dark and dirty nickels to Honest Rob, who hates them with a passion..... He recently proudly announced that he tumbled all the crappy nickels we had been giving him in his vibratory tumbler, to shine them up..... Hahaha... the fun never ends......

BTW, refer to the earlier post with the full rules of the game, and the list of all targets.

[DukeInFlorida]

Just a follow up (since we haven't had one in a while.)

Gator Tommy came down from near Jacksonville, and shot with us. Took him about one and a half games to get his gun tuned for the game and then he started shooting well. He did OK for the remainder of the morning. We had a bunch of shooters that Wednesday, and we took turns sitting out, so that Tommy could shoot all four games. He said that he came great distance to shoot, and we sure allowed him to trade nickels. He hasn't checked in since he shot with us. I trust that he had fun.

Last Monday we started assembling a new 10' X 12' shed for storing our lawnchairs and tables near the shooting area we use. Turned out to be QUITE a job! It was a metal shed in a box, kind of like an Erector set, with millions of pieces, a complex set of instructions, and millions of fasteners. The shed is designed to sit atop a platform or deck or concrete pad. We hadn't planned for that. One of the guys has a Kubota tractor with a bucket, and we spent a bit of time hauling soggy wet mud to build up a platform. The location for the shed is already in a low and wet location. The mud made conditions horrible, with boots getting sucked off our feet. I threw out my back, hefting some of the mud off of a trailer. OUCH. The day ended early when 3" of hard rain closed the doors on our efforts, and making the mud pie game even worse.
We continued the construction on Tuesday. The going was slow at best. By the end of the day, we managed to get most of the roof panels in place.
Wednesday was the next day, and the guys all decided to shoot our normal lawnsteel game. A new shooter came, but quit mid game. He had some sort of impression that we were too good for him. He sat and watched in amazement as steel target by steel target fell. I had discussion on Thursday morning with an RSO buddy of his that came by the club. I suggested that he have his friend, george, come by and try again. I offered the same offering thatwe always extend: "Come and try the game. We'll even lend you a proper gun, and ammo that is tuned for the gun and the game". He said that he would talk to his friend. Hope he, and Gator Tommy, return.

Yesterday, I helped Easy Eddie tune up his new Dillon 550b press, and before you knew it, he was turning out excellent ammo. We tested our mutual Chrony Master Beta chronographs. (Mine has been hit a couple more times than his has). There seems to be a discrepancy between the two. The techie at Chrony suggested that we test fire some .22 LR ammo, known to be at 1250 feet per second. Eddie's tested at almost the right pace, but my chrono was showing about 50 feet per second slower. So, I determined that I am sending mine back to Chrony to get re-calibrated. 810 feet per second is the target speed for the lawn steel game. It allows the bullets to hit front and back row of steel using the same aim point. So, it's important to know how the load development is going.

Lastly, we're beginning work on a new web site, and will be accumulating a mailing list. Anyone who wants to get added, for receiving newsletters, shoot dates, tournaments, etc... please get me your email address via PM. I'll add you to the list.

That's the update. Hope to see anyone who wants to join us at the range.
A work party was held today, with only three workers. The shed is still not complete.

[Michael J. Spangler]

i'm jealous
i can say that i've seen duke's work first hand. If he gets his grip on lawn steel (or lawn steel gets its grip on him??) he's going to push to make it the best he can and bring in tons of new people.
he did amazing things for new and veteran casters in the new england area while he was here. i'ms sure he's going to put his usual effort in to lawn steel and casting down there.
keep it up guys. i love reading about the game

[Pee Wee]

Yes, Michael, Orville is all in and has sucked me in with him. I love this game.
see you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

I have been trying to figure out a way to get a casting workshop going down here.
When I lived in New England, I had NES to work as the place to spread the good news.
Maybe I need to contact Derek, and create SES (South East Shooters), and develop the site first. Dunno.....

However, I have already taught a few of the guys in lawnsteel some refinements for the smelting process. Most of them have a good handle on the boolit casting part.

Michael, we have to get you on the line, shooting lawnsteel. You have to make a special trip!!!


i'm jealous
i can say that i've seen duke's work first hand. If he gets his grip on lawn steel (or lawn steel gets its grip on him??) he's going to push to make it the best he can and bring in tons of new people.
he did amazing things for new and veteran casters in the new england area while he was here. i'ms sure he's going to put his usual effort in to lawn steel and casting down there.
keep it up guys. i love reading about the game

[Michael J. Spangler]

i wish. maybe i can plan it for next year.
i would love to get down there and play the game. it seems like the type of game I would create if i had the creative juices.

[DukeInFlorida]

To assist the newer shooters, and some of the older guys who are looking for additional Contenders, here is a list of serial numbers, and when they were made.

Blued T/C Contender

Jan. - June / July - Dec

1967 1001-2250
1968 2251 - 3060 3061 - 4330
1969 4331 - 7500 7501 - 11075
1970 11076 - 14501 14502 - 15360
1971 15361 - 16850 16851 - 17885
1972 17886 - 19800 19801 - 22400
1973 22401 - 24750 24751 - 27090
1974 27091 - 30100 30101 - 34500
1975 34501 - 38401 38402 - 47890
1976 47891 - 60670 60671 - 67875
1977 67876 - 74825 74826 - 80398
1978 80399 - 91872 91873 - 108344
1979 108345 - 133856 133857 - 153636
1980 153637 - 169090 169091 - 173516
1981 173517 - 181663 181664 - 196703
1982 196704 - 208412 208413 - 220806
1983 220807 - 227176 227177 - 234850
1984 234851 - 246791 246792 - 256525
1985 256526 - 265000 265001 - 273800
1986 273801 - 287000 287001 - 297200
1987 297201 - 310599 310600 - 317099
1988 317100 - 327999 328000 - 335200
1989 335201 - 351700 351701 - 357200
1990 357201 - 366900 366901 - 370677
1991 370678 - 382852 382853 - 386697
1992 386698 - 399679 399680 - 407884
1993 407885 - 411796 411797 - 418410
1994 418411 - 427890 427891 - 430597
1995 430598 - 435934 435935 - 438365
1996 438366 - 443306 443307 - 446201
1997 446202 - 446735 446736 - 450227
1997 was last year of production for "Gen 1" Contenders

Generation 2 Serial Numbers
1998 450228 - 452512 452513 - 453321
1999 453322 - 455590 455591 - 456568
2000 456569 -

[gatortommy]

[QUOTE=DukeInFlorida;3096557]Just a follow up (since we haven't had one in a while.)

Gator Tommy came down from near Jacksonville, and shot with us. Took him about one and a half games to get his gun tuned for the game and then he started shooting well. He did OK for the remainder of the morning. We had a bunch of shooters that Wednesday, and we took turns sitting out, so that Tommy could shoot all four games. He said that he came great distance to shoot, and we sure allowed him to trade nickels. He hasn't checked in since he shot with us. I trust that he had fun.

I had a blast and am hoping to return soon, maybe this week. I've been busy stockpiling nickels and sighting in the 625 a little better. I think I've got it where it needs to be now. I also picked up a Contender and have been working on Lawnsteel loads in .357. Next time I come down, I'll bring both.

Tom

[Pee Wee]

That's great that you found a contender, if you go back in the theard you will see what loads and boolits to use. also use the same headstamp for all your brass. It makes a difference. glad you had a good time hope to see you soon. Eddie and I just picked up our second contenders, mine was made the first year 1967 and only shot a few times. Eddie got one that was made in 1995 and has never been shot, brand new in the box with all paper work and tags and bands still on it. We were both like little kids with a new toy.
Can't wait to shoot it on Wed.
We have completed our metal building and now we can store all of our equipment at the Range and not be carrying it back and forth every week. We have had about 4 new shooters in the last month. I love not being the ***.
I love this Game.
see you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

GatorTommy, I was worried that we hadn't heard from you since your visit. I'm delighted that you had fun, and will be joining us again.
Please PM me your email address, and I will be sure to add you to the mailing list for newsletters, shoot dates, etc....

We're shooting this Sunday, Feb1st, which is StupidBowl Sunday. Assemble at the normal 8 AM for steel set up. Shooting begins by 9 AM.
Next shoot date is Wednesday, Feb 4th. Same assembly time. We shoot every Wednesday.
The next Sunday shoot date is Feb 22nd.

The club is holding a nationally televised shoot on March 20, 21, and 22 (S&W National Steel Shoot!), and the club will be making final range preparations the prior week. So, we will be gathering at Fast Eddie's place in Deland for shooting on March 18th. That info will be included in the next newsletter.

[Pee Wee]

well, lets see now, a lot has been going on since I last posted. We have erected our shed, we have put up a 10X12 shed to keep our equipment and shooting supplies in. That was a job as we had to put it in a spot that was flooded. Eddie went home and brought back a small front end loader and moved the dirt we needed to build up the earth so we could get the building up high enough to keep it from being flooded. We have had several new shooters come to try their hand a lawnsteel shooting. Two have purchased Contenders and are getting the bug to start casting and loading their own boolits. I have my 38 dialed in and have been shooting really good, Orville and I are working on loads for our 44. we are loading 44 special brass instead of mag. brass and are using Trailboss powder. He is loading 5.0 grains and I have to still do some crono work on my load, as 5.0 is still a little over what We are shooting for(810fps) 5.0 is at 819fps in my gun, so I have loaded up 4.8 and 4.9 and will crono tomorrow, I am thinking that 4.9 is going to be the one. will post results when I have the final number. Orville is going to have some surgery on his abd. seems he has a abdomial hernia, he pulled it when we were building the foundation for the shed, he has not been able to do much for about a month now and you know that if he does not shoot that something is wrong. He thought he had a kidney stone, but when he went to the hospital they did a ct and found the hernia. It is great to not be the new guy I have actually become a nickle grubber. althought Wed, I almost shot a perfect game to turn around and foul 4 times in the next game. Oh well, as Rob says, at least I knocked down a target. We will be shooting this sunday, can't wait.
untill then see you at the range
Keith

[Pee Wee]

Went over to Eddies yesterday and cronoed the 44 loads of 4.8 and 4.9. The 4.9 loads are the ones. the mean was 809.5/ cant ask for anybetter than that. I loaded up a batch and will be shooting those today. The Internation Lawnsteel shooters Assoc. is offically back. If you are intrested in starting up a branch in your area you can leave a message here and someone can get you the information on how to do that. well got to get ready to go shoot the game, I love this game.
see you at the range
Keith

[DukeInFlorida]

ILSA is officially accepting applications for membership. It also has a new board of directors, all of which will be announced in the next newsletter, as soon as Slow Roy (he's having a Dickens of a time with his brand new brass. Lots of hangfires, causing lots of fouls. Great for the others... Not so good for EvilRoy... er... um... I mean Slow Roy (slow to catch on and catch up)......

Some of the ILSA guys have come to take my formal reloading class. What, you say?? Guys who have been successfully reloading for Lawnsteel for a long time taking a reloading class? Yes, they are reporting that they have learned some "advanced knowledge" and that it's made their shooting even better. And, given them skills for building rifle cartridges, which they had little or no experience with.

[Pee Wee]

Its been a while since I have posted, one of the new guys mentioned that to me yesterday. I have both of my contenders shooting very well. They are right on the number that they need to be and I have been shooting very well. In a game we usally shoot 18 rounds a game give or take. in the three games that I played on wed. I hit 15 out of 18 shots per game. I am very happy with that. I am acutally coming home with more nickels than I came with. I have not yet shot a perfect game. maybe next time. We have gotten 2 new shooter that are regulars and have 2 more that are looking for contenders and geting the bug to get in the game. We also have a couple others that played and are also looking for a pistol to play the game with. If we continue to grow, we are going to need another Lawnsteel range.
I took Orvilles reloading class and learned several things about reloading that I did not know. Time well spent. Good class, Great Teacher. He has been having some issues with something in his back. Bad pain, so he has been up and down with that, he did come and shoot on wed. but had to bow out of the second game and head home, found out yesterday that he ended up in the emergency room again on Friday night. Hope he get it straightend out. I have my reloading and casting down to a precise routine. I purchased a star lubeasizer because of the volume of boolits that I cast. I also shoot 9mm,45acp in another form of steel targets. so I cast and lube and size around 1,500 rounds a mo. for those and when I cast for the lawnsteel loads I cast arount 3,000 rounds for that and then dont have to cast for a while for lawnsteel and using the lyman was killing me. money well spent. I am a card carrying member of the ILSA now that it is back running.
I love this game
See you at the Range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

UPDATE:
The original Contenders were all carbon steel frames, blued. The Stainless Steel versions didn't appear in the marketplace until approximately 1993. Thompson Center Arms, when they were located in Farmington, NH, did all of their own lost wax investment castings in house. They did a LOT of carbon steel castings, and some custom stainless gun castings prior to 1993, but that was the year that the wonderful Gen 1 stainless steel models hit the stores.

For reference, Stainless Contender serial numbers, and production dates (approximate). FRO had different numbers, often custom, per customer request.

Serial #'s for Stainless T/C Contender

Year
Jan. - June July - Dec.
G1 Dates
1990 Custom guns, serial numbers per customer request
1991 Custom guns, serial numbers per customer request
1992 Custom guns, serial numbers per customer request
1993 S1100 - S11666 S11667 - S14723
1994 S14724 - S18041 S18042 - S23103
1995 S23104 - S28044 S28045 - S29610
1996 S29611 - S33187 S33188 - S36551
1997 S36552 - S36908 S36909 - S38434
1998 S38435 - S40173 S40518 - S40895
1999 S40896 - S41922 S41923 - S42280
Contender G2 was released in 1999/2000.
2000 S42281 -

[Pee Wee]

We have 3 new shooters. They have all bought contenders with 38/357 barrels. I have learned how to do trigger jobs on contenders and have done so for the new guys(****). I have been helping them with loading and getting their gun set up.(paying it forward for all the help I got when I started) Orville,Eddie and I have also added to our contender collection. Did trigger job on those as well. We are growing, we now have 9 to10 guys per shoot. We have six people on the line at a time, so we are switching off so everyone can shoot. We normally shoot four games (timed games are 55 min.) so we have started to shoot more games for the guys that want to stay later. Last wed. We shot six games as some of guys need to leave after four games. We usually start about 8:30 and after four games with setting up the targets and some banter in between we are usually done between 12:30 and 1:00 o'clock. So I still got to shoot four games, and it was about 3oclock when I left, so that's okay with me. We need another range so we are trying to come up with a solution. If everyone that is a member showed up at once we would have about 15 or 16 all together. When I started back in July, there was only eight guys. I have not shot a perfect game yet but have been close several times. Maybe next time. I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Keith is right, we need to come up with a way to alleviate the limited number of seats.

However, the current plan is to fit TWO lines of shooters into the current space.
We have two sets of targets, and enough room to get two lines of shooters easily.

When we started using the shooting bay we operate in, we located the shooting line out in FRONT of a shelter that was there. Here in Florida, the hot sun makes for sweaty hands while shooting. So, when we started, the shooting line consisted of a line of reclining chairs with each shooter sporting his/her own beach umbrella for shade.

We convinced the range owner to allow us to commandeer the shelter. We held a work party, and cut a tree that was immediately in front of the shelter. We relocated a shelf that was on the front of the shelter to the rear of the shelter. And, we installed a wooden floor in the shelter to give us a solid and flat surface to set chairs on.

So, the current plan is that the existing shelter could be extended enough to accommodate 12 shooters. However, that's gonna take some $$$ and a few work parties. In the meantime, some of us will shift left, out of the shelter, to make room for a couple more on the right side, and the rest of the shooters will shoot from that boggy area next to the existing sump pump.

If any of the existing Lawn Steel guys have access to surplus building materials, and can assist with formulating construction plans for extending the shelter, we are all ears.
We would really rather stay in the current location, and shoot, no matter how large the current local group gets.

Thanks, Keith, for the trigger job that you did on my two Contenders. They shoot amazingly well now.

[Pee Wee]

We had a good day of shooting yesterday. We had eight shooters, so Dennis and I sat out the first two games. Then Gary left as he was not feeling well and Orville sat out and Dennis and I got to shoot. After one more game Jackie left and Orville got back in and we shot two more games. After those 2 games everyone headed home except Orville and I. We stayed and shot two more rounds, however we did not play the game, we set up the targets and took turns calling our shot so we could dial our guns in better. We both changed our grips and fore ends from wood to the pachmayr rubber grips and that changed our sights. We had sighted them in ok to shoot the game but we needed to hone in for the more challenging shots, we did and we both made what we call "fuzzy butt shots."
These are targets that are mostly hidden behind another target and just a piece of it can be seen. This is the true test of a ILSA shooter. We both left feeling pretty good with the extra trigger time and more confident with our gun. Can't wait till next Wed.
I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Lawnsteel is alive and well!

Have had a few new shooters show up. It's been good for the ILSA group, and good for our host club. The new shooters have joined BOTH the host club and ILSA.

The regular guys are very generous with time, knowledge, and even materials to get the new shooters going. PeeWee has been especially gracious with his time. Not only has he coached the new shooters, he's also done trigger jobs on all the Contenders that have come with the new shooters. He's done those for free. And, he's very good at doing them.

I've been sitting on the sidelines for a month, dealing with the return of my cancer. I was able to shoot Sunday, and should be there again on Wednesday. Next Monday begins chemo, and I am sure I will be out of commission for a while again. I sure miss this game when I am not shooting.

My personal thanks to all who are helping the new guys come along!

[DukeInFlorida]

The SUMMER is getting hot. The range has been sizzling with heat, and shooters.

With my weakened condition, I'm not as up to staying on the shooting line very long.

Rumor is that in addition to the normal Wednesday shoots, we'll also start getting some occasional Sundays and perhaps even some other days. I'd like to get there early, maybe shoot two rounds, and head for the A/C at home.....

Range report as it happens.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Duke you sure as hell are a fighter. Not just with your health but you are a leader with this sport. From the NES cast boolits seminar to the ILS shooting I have to say anyone would be proud to have someone like you heading up their event, planning and growing better than anyone I know. The NES cast boolits seminar is done without you.
You're an ambassador to this sport. Keep up the good work and the good fight. Prayers sent my friend.

[DukeInFlorida]

Thanks for the prayers and kind words, Michael. I'm just like most people, always willing to pass along my knowledge.

Paying it forward is a BIG part of my life.

Besides, I am always surrounded by good people, eager to still teach me things I don't already know. And, I listen, watch, and learn all the time.

I'm kicking this cancer's butt at the moment, and the strong positive mental attitude is a major part of that.

Thanks again for the kind words, the encouragement, the support, and the prayers!

[DukeInFlorida]

Gunarea told me today he would check in here today..... I'll see him in the AM..... Had a busy day, I am working on a new WEB SITE for ILSA.... and gunarea was sipping whiskey the whole time I was on the phone with him (many hours).... maybe he fell asleep before getting around to posting here.... hahaha Hope it affects his shooting in the AM.

When it's ready, I will provide the new URL...... I have a LOT of details to add to the site!! And, pictures galore from the old days.

We have an upcoming work party to expand the current shooting line from one line (six shooters) to two lines (total of 12 shooters). That will handle the 10-11 shooters we get every Wednesday, and 14-16 we get every Sunday. We are also planning a TOURNAMENT for November 29th, 2015. It will be a big event, with BOTH lines running simultaneously. Big bore on one, small bore on the other.

If you'd like me to add you to our growing mailing list, please PM me. I'll need an email address and your real name, please.

[gunarea]

Hello All
Just as "Teflon" was not originally designed to magically slide your eggs out of a skillet, Lawnsteel was never intended to transform people into shooting whores. Folks worth $350 an hour reduced to whimpering globs after suffering an errant shot that has a net worth of -25 cents. PLEASE don't come shoot Lawnsteel. As a supporter of general well being, PLEASE don't come shoot Lawnsteel! Those who try the game become hopeless, insatiable, mouth breathing zombies. My first hand experience has seen nationally ranked shooters succumb to the whims of a temptress lacking in conscience.
Orville has just left after a couple hours of website work. He is funny, he makes me laugh. Orville is trying very hard to share a gift he has been given. ILSA now has an operating website. Lawnsteel the game is being promoted and thus far has proven to be quite the hit with casual shooters. Again, not the intended outcome. The effort being put forth is monumental considering the personal hurdles he must endure. Some of you know what I am referring to.
PLEASE don't try Lawnsteel! It just makes more work for an invalid and a retiree who really doesn't give a ****. The game requires the competitor to acquire or manufacture ammunition at a level of precision, foreign to most shooters. Lawnsteel the game, will reward and admonish with equal ferocity. Good shooting is relative. Never missing on a line with five other shooters never missing, makes you average. PLEASE don't try Lawnsteel! Knowing the difference of powder location kinetics is fundamental to Lawnsteel players. Understanding exactly what is happening during a cartridge discharge is basic to a "Bulleteer". Bulleteering is something a Lawnsteel player acquires on the path to being a good Lawnsteel player.

PLEASE don't try Lawnsteel! You will make me wait for my turn longer! You aren't a good enough shot to play the game. It will cost you untold amounts of nickles. Buying guns exclusively for Lawnsteel is stupid! Any miss is witnessed by everyone and extremely degrading. Loading specifically for a game that is only played occasionally is not sensible. Attacks upon individual integrity and ethics can erode self esteem. Protocol procedures are tiresome and quite simply only to promote safety. People who play Lawnsteel are arsholes! It is too late for me and several others I will not name. Save yourself, PLEASE don't try Lawnsteel!
Check out the new website and PLEASE don't try Lawnsteel!

That awta shut em up for a while.
Roy

[HABCAN]

Having attained an age where I can shoot ONLY when seated, your sport has certainly gained my attention. I've read all the posts up to here, and think mebbeso there should be a Canadian contingent. Please post a link to the ILSA website.

[DukeInFlorida]

The lack of a link to the NEW website is my oversight, and for that I do apologize.

It's still a work in progress, but one long overdue. Roy had let the old domain lapse, and it's only after adding new batteries to the cattle prod did I get him to wake up from his sleep, and get going....

So, without much further delay, the new web site lives here:
http://www.internationallawnsteelshootersassociation.com/

I am working on cleaning up the look of the rules (PDF FILE), as the one posted was from an old funky printer Roy once owned. The rules are current, it's just a messy print job. The rules were actually posted: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?84350-International-Lawn-Steel-shooting&p=2752901&viewfull=1#post2752901

And, immediately following that post were some details for the design for the rest of the targets. I might ask Roy to enhance the rules, to include those extra details.

We can also provide some technical support regarding suggestion for steel thickness, etc... We've tried all sorts of paint configurations, but plain old SILVER paint, with gloss black for the numbers works best.

If you see (or don't see) anything on the new web site that needs addressing, let me know. I'm the webmaster for the site. webmaster@internationallawnsteelshootersassociatio n.com

We'd love to have a Northern Contingent. Be aware that you should contact Roy for the FORMAL club affiliation requirements. He does issue membership cards, etc...

[baogongmeo]

That sure looks like fun.
Are there any groups in Missouri?

[DukeInFlorida]

Roy (gunarea) is the one with knowledge as to where the previous groups were.

It's easy enough to start your own group. Maybe Roy will check in, and answer the question.


That sure looks like fun.
Are there any groups in Missouri?

[I'll Make Mine]

I'd sure be interested in seeing a group form in central North Carolina -- preferably within an hour or so drive from Winston-Salem. I could get set up to produce the required ammunition in fairly short order if I had a need for it, and I'd love to have some incentive to improve my marksmanship -- and nickels are about my speed for incentive.

[HABCAN]

Sorry Duke, maybe I'm too much of a computer ******* but the links as you've posted them don't work for me. However, no rush. It'll take me quite a while to get a few lethargic Canucks 'interested'. What with branding, harvest, curling........or rig moves.........!!

Walmart online had the perfect chair for CDN$33............but they're sold out!!

[DukeInFlorida]

You cannot copy and paste what I put as links. If you try to do that, you'll pick up the ...'s that are in the truncated link reference. When I created the links, I used text, and made the text associated with the links. If you put your cursor OVER the text, without clicking, you'll see where the links will take you, down aty the bottom of your screen.

Sooooooooooooo

Just CLICK the links, and your browser will take you directly to it.






Sorry Duke, maybe I'm too much of a computer ******* but the links as you've posted them don't work for me. However, no rush. It'll take me quite a while to get a few lethargic Canucks 'interested'. What with branding, harvest, curling........or rig moves.........!!

Walmart online had the perfect chair for CDN$33............but they're sold out!!

[DukeInFlorida]

Updates coming soon. Check back here often.

[Pee Wee]

Today we shoot lawnsteel. I haven't posted in awhile. Duke and I are working on load development on a couple of things. We have purchased 45 LC barrels and settled on a load for them. Now we are fine tuning sighting them in. We are also starting to work on a new bullet comb for our 38/357 cast bullet. We use a 158 grain non gas checked bullet and are going to try a 158 grain gas check bullet. We cast up some on sat. And I have loaded up some to shoot today with the same load as the non gas checked one, just to try. We will be chronoing soon. We are growing as a club. We now have 10 to 12 shooters coming so we take turns for the 4 games that we shoot. We are working on getting a second line set up but that involves a few things that have to happen. The first is making a set of targets and that is costly. We have found a source for the steel ( donateded) but it will take a while to gather the amount that is required, then to cut and weld them. So we are on the path to get it done. We have a crew of new shooters and 5 or 6 of us have been getting togather on Tuesdays to practice and sighting in our guns so I have been getting to shoot 2 days. Helps to feed my castin and reloading habit. I love this game
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

LOTS going on, since we posted last Summer.

Pee Wee has shot three perfect games! That's every target he called getting knocked down, with no fouls. He's progressed quickly! Congrats, Pee Wee!

We have also teamed up to cast, make gas checks, and lubricize boolits.
1) Pee Wee has been using his Lyman molds, and our mutual supply of lead, to keep us both in boolits
2) I supplied my FreeChex III tools, and a arbor press, and Pee Wee made mounting fixtures, and he's now cranking out incredible quantities of 44 cal, and 45 cal gas checks. He's also making 30 cal and 22 cal gas checks for our other shooting interests. I buy the rolled raw material from Yonky, and Keith mounts the rolls on a roll dispensing fixture he designed. He can punch out gas checks very quickly and efficiently, with almost no waste at all.
3) I just recently supplied a recently purchased Star Lubricizer for the purpose of increasing our sizing/lubing capacity. The new version will handle the small 38 caliber boolits, while his original sizer will handle the larger 44 and 45 sizes. He's making bullet feed parts so that both machines will have bullet feed tubes. We're going to work on making a hopper to feed the tubes. Both machines have rheostat controlled heaters.

The purpose of all of this???

To allow us time to get the casting process out of the way, so that we have more time to develop precision loads, and shoot.

[Plate plinker]

Wow what a fantastic sport. Lounging shooting and BS all rolled into one. Heck I grew up that way. Those super light loads are a hoot. Keep it up.

[HABCAN]

There is a new pistol range starting up here locally that maybe, just maybe, might become a Lawnsteel venue. Wish me luck.

[corbinace]

So, are there any CAD type of drawings that I could give to a fab shop to get the various targets cut out. I am ignorant as to how to make those drawings but I am sure once I have them, the shop can either flame or water cut them out. All the while leaving the least wasted scraps. One local shop does water jet cutting for a very reasonable cost.

[NHPaul]

You still terrorizing all the old geezers down there?

[DukeInFlorida]

Sure am, Paul. Hope you're enjoying the snow...... <wink> Thanks for mixing it up for the PRIMARIES!


You still terrorizing all the old geezers down there?

The designs for the targets are covered earlier in this thread. There are no "cad drawings" that I am aware of. The targets that we shoot at are hand cut with a torch (oxy/acetyelene), and subject to random interpretation. Don;t be worried about precision. Each slight variation is noticed by the shooters, and makes for interesting games.


So, are there any CAD type of drawings that I could give to a fab shop to get the various targets cut out. I am ignorant as to how to make those drawings but I am sure once I have them, the shop can either flame or water cut them out. All the while leaving the least wasted scraps. One local shop does water jet cutting for a very reasonable cost.

[NHPaul]

I would like to make a set of cad drawings if there are any sketches available

[Outer Rondacker]

I just wish a place near me did something like this. It looks like great fun.

[DukeInFlorida]

The details for the targets are listed in previous posts in this thread. Go back to the beginning, and see the specific posts with the details for steel and targets.
We have been shooting at two sets (two different locations), and I will tell you that BOTH sets were torch cut with some precision, but not at all strictly to any drawing. For example, the set contains three geese. In each of the sets, all three geese are unique (six totally unique geese), and each presents it's own challenge, and plays into the game. For example, in the primary set we shoot, goose #1 has a long tall neck, and a short fat body. Only by hitting goose #1 in the head (a 1.5" X 1.5" target) or extreme upper neck, will it go over. Goose #2 and goose #3 are each unique, but shorter necks, and even a body shot will knock them over.

Point being, that there is a LOT of interpretation allowed in the making of the targets.

So, Paul, gather the details for targets, and please share a copy of the final cad file with me. I don't have a real way to PRINT out targets from a cad file. So, if you can think of a printer friendly, non-AutoCad way to print the files, I would appreciate it.

We are currently in the process of making a NEW set of targets. The way we are doing that is to pencil outline what we feel are the best targets from our sets, and try to copy that as close as possible with a plasma cutter. The result will be three geese that are as close as possible to being the same, ditto on all of the other animals, quits, and card suits. Some of the dynamics of the game will be lost, but we'll have a complete set of what they are supposed to look like.

If you wanna come visit, Paul, and do actual measurements from actual targets, keep in mind that BIKE WEEK is coming up fast. My spare room is available for you and the Mrs. You're always welcome to my home.


I would like to make a set of cad drawings if there are any sketches available

[Baja_Traveler]

I've got the pistols and I even have the Zero Gravity lawn chair - if there were a shoot like this locally I'd be all over it! Looks like a bunch of fun.
I'll bet a 32-20 barrel on my contender would be the cats meow for this...

[Pee Wee]

Well time sure flies when your having fun. We have completed the new targets, we have four new shooters and we continue to have fun at this game. As Orville mentioned in February that I had shot three perfect games, I have now shot five perfect games. Can't tell how that happened it just does. Orville and I were the big winners on Tuesday, he won 53 nickles and I won 50. When we started this stupid game we would loose a bunch of nickles each every week, our other ILSA buddies commented Tuesday that we were nickle fountains back then. Now the new guys (***'s) are. I still can't wait for Tuesday to come. You just shouldn't be allowed to have this much fun shooting.
As Orville stated, we have combined our castin efforts. It has paid off as we have increased our production and efficiency.

[NHPaul]

Wish we had a NH chapter.

[Pee Wee]

Well is summer and school is out. I have been taking my old partners son who is 13 to shoot lawnsteel and he is hooked. He is doing very good and is actually getting in the game and collecting animal shots. His dad is telling me that he talks to them about it for an hour and cant wait to go again next tues. Now he wants a T/C Contender for his own. I have been letting him shot my 38/357 Thompson. He is also interested in learning how to reload so he is planing to come down and learn. Orville has been on vacation for 3 weeks and will be back to shoot next tues. Can't wait to take his nickels.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

Lament of an old Lawnsteel curmudgeon
My wife Debbie, and I have retired. We sold our shooting facility through pressure brought on by a neighbor(Oh my God, they are shooting guns!!). The facility no longer supports Lawnsteel the game. A fairly new shooting facility, cajoled itself into hosting Lawnsteel in the hope of gaining state recognition for Sunshine shooting competitions. Of course with new visibility, more folks become first attracted and then obsessed with shooting Lawnsteel. Now I drive fifty miles to enjoy a little friendly shooting competition and end up watching instead of playing. Playing instead of watching was the basis for Lawnsteel and the reason my facility could accommodate two games simultaneously. Please, please, please, someone come down here and build, monitor, maintain, organize, coordinate and manage a Lawnsteel complex capable of accommodating three to seven games of Lawnsteel simultaneously. Or maybe killing off a half dozen or so Lawnsteel players, I ask for no special exemption. Come on down and help overpopulate our Lawnsteel ghetto. Sorry about the lament, I did 5 hours of manual labor yesterday and a half jug of horse liniment just barely has me mobile, but still disgruntled.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

We are now seeing a growth of our lawnsteel contingent and as Roy states, we are having to rotate our group so that everyone gets a chance to shoot, we now have on a regular basis nine or ten guys showing up to shoot lawnsteel. There is currently about 25 members in our group but not all show up on the Tues, and Sundays that we shoot. We have two sets of targets now made up but the club that we shoot at only has one bay that will accommodate the 70 yards needed to set up a lawnsteel target set. I do not know what the answer is but it would be nice to have the accommodations to set up two shooting ranges so all that come can shoot the four games that we play.
I had a great time at the Range today, you just can't imagine how much fun this game is. I LOVE THIS GAME
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

Thread update
It has been just over two years now, my rolling block Uberti failed. Chamber block eroded and leaked pressure badly. Continued pestering finally paid off with a new chamber block of correct style. The row boat Uberti contracted for shipment came to port with the almost correct part, this time. With a 50/50 chance of the correct firing pin accompanying the part, of course they sent the wrong one. Once again I was forced to make the firing pin from a drill bit. Although my firing pins outlast Uberti factory pins by about 8 to 1, working on small parts aggravate my hand/finger arthritis terribly. It really felt good to shoot it once again. Ammo over two years old performed like no time had elapsed. It was 81 degrees yesterday, winter in Florida, ya gotta love it. Motorcycle riding and fishing today, I'm a genuine Florida cracker, I love my home and Lawnsteel.
Roy

[Pee Wee]

Shooting on Tues. was just a joy. As Roy stated 81 degrees, it was a bit overcast for the first two games and made it a challenge to see the targets, then the sun popped out and all was right with the world. Roy was shooting is Uberti again and he did no miss a beat. Shot really good.
Its seems that we have a group in the state of Washington that are getting ready to start shooting lawnsteel. They have targets built and have contacted us for the rules and set up. Roy has sent them a wealth of info for them to digest.
can't wait to get feedback on how they are progressing.
I love this game
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

Some new interested players have asked for a video or two, showing the game in progress.
Here are some videos to check out:

https://youtu.be/cURlV9DKjqQ

https://youtu.be/ydvR92MJq0k

https://youtu.be/4-vJ9G29aW8

[Pee Wee]

Yea, We have had a member here (rdbronco) contact us and is establishing a Lawnsteel shooting group in the state of Washington. They have made their targets and are working on finishing them. Our illustrious leader Roy has e-mailed a package for them to digest and we are hoping that they can get up and running with a short learning curve. Good luck to the new Lawnsteel group there.
We shot yesterday and the weather was 78 degrees, the sun was out and not a cloud in the sky Awwww Florida, what a great place to live.
I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

I really like changing up the game. There's an ever changing layout of the targets, every game seems to be a bit different, depending on how the guys place the steel. The lollipops go in the front row, but they don;t have to be in order, or even side by side. One of the games we played on Tuesday had lollipop 2 placed strategically behind lollipop 1, 4 was behind 3, etc. Strategically such that whoever knocked over lollipop 1... the head of the lollipop would end up sitting on the base of lollipop 2 (making it harder to knock 2 over). Then, placing "Joe Corpsman's" head behind a log, with just the top peeking over made that shot interesting, etc.
However, there are also a LOT of variations in how the game is played.
The game I called (that's what they get for electing me line judge) was "The Numbers Game, Decending Order. So, properly played, we have to start with the highest number lollipops, and work backwards. You have to play the highest number of everything, and some arbitraries have higher numbers. QUITS, for example, go up to the number 12. So, the first arbitrary has to be Quit 12. Some of the animal targets have more of them than others. So, Turkeys and Pigs have four each. So, you have to shoot pig 4 or turkey 4. Once the fours are out of play, then all the threes have to get shot. Then, all the twos, and finally, all the ones. The game is a bit confusing at first, and there will always be complaints. Just remember that the Line Judge is the decider of all actions. And, that if someone forgets the nature of the game, and shoots an incorrect target down, it's a foul. So, I think of this version of the game as a Thinking Man's game in addition to be a skilled shooters game. Great fun. This game cost almost everyone LOTS of nickels!

[Pee Wee]

Wow::::::what a beautiful day it was for shooting lawnsteel. The sky was blue and not a cloud around temperature was 80 degrees and the shooting was fantastic. Orville almost shot a perfect game today, Only missed one target in the 3rd game. He is getting close every week. We had 7 shooters today, as a couple were out sick or tied up with other commitments. So we trade off so everyone gets to shoot. Normally we shoot 18 rounds per game, but because we were all shooting so good today we had 3 games were we only shot 15 rounds per game and we won 3 out of the 4 games we played. You just can't know how much fun shooting this lawnsteel game is.
I wish I had found out about it much earlier than I did.
Roy Says that the guys in Washington State are make headway and about to finish up on their targets. Can't wait to hear how they do once the get started. Roy Made a Video of a round that we played last week and I hope will be posting it soon so you can see what its like. I love this Game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

Monday evening, I worked today getting 2 Contenders put together. 1 for a new shooter to purchase and one for Eddie. He had a stainless frame that was a spare and he mentioned to me the other day that he did not like his blued 38 special octagon barrel and wished he could find a 38/357 stainless Bull barrel set up like his 44 Mag/special stainless contender. The new guy wants to buy a 38 special contender so I found a stainless 38/357 barrel and Eddie and I did a trade so I have one now set up for the new guy and Eddie has a 38/357 stainless set up the way he wanted it. We will be shooting tomorrow our regular Tues. shoot but because we are growing we shot last Sunday and will be shooting again this Sunday. We need a second range, we have the targets but no were to set them up at the club or Eddies. The club just added 4 new bays but they are not long enough to accommodate Lawnsteel requirements. We now have 12 regular members, so we are switching off so everyone gets to shoot. So the up side is that now we are getting to shoot on Sundays more than we have in the past, maybe we can make it an every-other Sunday routine.
I love this game,
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

On this past Tuesday we had 10 shooters show up and had 2 regular member that did not make it. We know have enough shooters showing up that we could have a second line to shoot if we had the space to set up a second range. It was suggested that we shoot 2 times a week. So that may be the the short term answer. Some of the Guys can't make it on the second day so it may be the way to go for now. The weather was perfect on Tues, 82 degrees and sunny. Eddie Shot a perfect game with the new contender that I put together for Him. First time he has shot a perfect game with a 38 Cal. So needles to say he really likes the new gun.. He has shot many perfect games with his 44 contender so I found a match bull barrel and set it up with the identical sights like his 44 and it worked for him. Orville, Eddie and I got one of the new guys all set up with his new reloading equipment and he is on his way to reloading. One of the other new guys, Paul is shooting pretty good with the Thompson 38 that I put together for him. I am loading for him right now. We will be setting him up in a couple of weeks so he can start loading his own. We are going to shoot on Monday at Eddies range and then Tuesday at the club range next week. Can't wait. I love this game
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

I just had to come on and announce that my buddy Orville Shot his first perfect game today. He has been so close many times with one missed shot games......but today he did it. Congratulations Orville you did it. What a great feeling it is, now they will come much easier once you get that first one out of the way.

[Michael J. Spangler]

I just had to come on and announce that my buddy Orville Shot his first perfect game today. He has been so close many times with one missed shot games......but today he did it. Congratulations Orville you did it. What a great feeling it is, now they will come much easier once you get that first one out of the way.


Way to go Duke!!! Wish you lived up here still and ran some matches for us!!!

[DukeInFlorida]

Hi all. Yeah, the perfect game (no missed shots and no fouls) has eluded me for four years. Finally nailed it.

Michael, if you guys make up a set of targets, I will make a special trip up to promote the game. I'm sure you will be as hooked as I was.

[Michael J. Spangler]

Do you have a file with the dimensions and specs on targets? I wonder one of the local ranges would let us run a match. I'll have to ask a buddy who is a member at a couple of the local ranges that have the room for this.

[DukeInFlorida]

Yes, if you look in an earlier post, you will find d links for the target dimensions.

[Pee Wee]

We had a class from Roy on Scoring and score keeping for Lawnsteel at Eddies last Saturday. I have been shooting Lawnsteel for Three years now but we have never had a tournament as it requires at least 2 shooting setups. We only have room for one at our club. So we play the game and use nickels as our LETS. So we are hoping that with the expansion projects going on at our club that somewhere down the road we can get another bay set up for lawnsteel. We are getting new shooters and sometimes have as many as 10 at a time. Keeping our fingers crossed. I love this game.
see you at the range
Pee Wee

[gunarea]

As of this date, there is not a single Lawnsteel player, using anything other than home cast projectiles. Not sure if any other gun game can make that boast. It would be my educated guess, no other gun game is played completely exclusive of commercially produced ammunition either. Playing Lawnsteel not only turns really good shots into really good shots, it makes casters and loaders out of (zombie) customers.

On the way out of bay 7, one of our fairly new players had an epiphany I was privy to. He said "six months ago I would have never imagined a 6" X 12" target 60 yards out with an open sighted handgun as an easy shot". He had lost a total of nine nickles that day and considered it as a trophy.

I love this game!

Roy

[gunarea]

Well, my last post may stand corrected. Lawnsteel is officially coast to coast with a private facility in Washington state playing the game. Not sure what they are using for ammunition but Rdbronco tells me they are shooting 45s and 44s on their maximum plate thickness targets. Would love to see some pictures of targets and sets. I will be curious to see how long they can keep the player attendance at or under game limits. Evidently they are enjoying Lawnsteel since the statement was, "the most fun you can have with your pants on". They love this game!
Side note; Hey Rdbronco shoot me a pm with a working e-mail address.
Roy

[Michael J. Spangler]

Where in Washington? I have a buddy out that way who would love to try this out.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

You know this looks like it would be a blast I may just have to start looking for a 10" Contender barrel now I wish i would have kept the one i sold

[Pee Wee]

Update:
Since it’s been a while since anyone has posted, here is what has been going on. We now have anywhere from 6 to 10 people coming to shoot now. We now have two sets of targets and have been shooting two lines when we have more people. The weather has been bad for us as far as the range goes. The bay that we use to shoot in has been flooded for the last three weeks due to all the rain we have been getting. Fortunately one of the members (Eddie) has a lawn steel range at his house, so we have been shooting there. There has been eight to nine of us going to Eddies so we rotate between us then. We normally shoot four games so everyone gets to shoot ar least three games. If you want to have the most fun you can have shooting you should try this game. Go back and find the videos and check it out or if you are close to Volusia County gun club come and join us, we will let you use everything you need to shoot just bring a couple dollars worth of nickels. Hope to see you at the range

[Pee Wee]

Lastest update——— we know have 12 people shooting. We know have a lady shooter. She has been shooting with us for a couple of months know and she shot her best games this past Sunday. We are now able to shoot back out our club as the flooding from the rains is now over. Therefore we have been setting up the two sets of targets. She is also now reloading her own ammunition. What a great sport, I love this game.
See you at the range.
Pee Wee

[jmort]

Always good to see an update in this thread. Wish I could participate.
Thank you for the update.

[Pee Wee]

Well if you ever get down to the central Florida area get in touch with me and be my guest and come shoot with us, guarantee you will have the most fun you ever had shooting.

[TCLouis]

Now this is the ONLY sort of competitive shooting that I could/would enjoy shooting.
Based on fun and yet there is still competition involved.

[Pee Wee]

The competition is one of the aspects of the game. The banter is primo and I have made new friends and we have social gatherings and get togathers. Several of us also shoot rifles to gather every Thursday and have lunch together. We also fish together. Good thing I am retired, we stay busy all the time, we also mine lead together at our range and get togather at one of the members house that has a huge work shop to process the lead, make lube and shoot there also. Life is great. Live it.

[gunarea]

You got it Keith, "The competition is one of the aspects of the game." Many of those whom have not observed the game being played, replied that it seemed too challenging. Often it seems, Lawnsteel target distances intimidate. When the game is watched, there is no hiding the fact that players are having fun. Lawnsteel has no pretense, it is a game. Laughing and joking are part of playing a game. No weapons! (I looked it up in my Funk&Wagnalls). Game equipment!

There is now another woman playing Lawnsteel. Lately she has become a competent shooter. The skill acquired can be directly attributed to playing Lawnsteel. Maybe with some prodding, she may join here and educate some of the ego mongers.

I love playing this game!

Roy

[DukeInFlorida]

Our woman shooter hss certainly benefited from a LOT of coaching. She took my reloading class, and has been making wonderful cartridges. She's resisting the call of casting, preferring to procure her castings from one of the regulars. She transitioned from a Ruger 3 screw that she hated (never did shoot it well), and got herself a truly wonderful Smith & Wesson 27-2 with 8 3/8 barrel. Loads 38 specials for it. After a trigger job, she's been shooting amazingly well, and winning a lot of nickels.
She also has a sweet Contender in 357 Mag (shoots 38 specials in it), but she's so darned happy with the S&W that she might never shoot the Contender again.

My own game has been going well. I am wayyyyyy up on nickels. Big change from fours years ago when weekly trips to the bank for rolls of nickels was the norm.

I heard from Michael J. Spangler, who's from the southest Mass area, inquiring about target design, etc. I suggest that Michael call gunarea (Roy Kramer). I gave Michael Roy's number. He and his brother, Bob, are the originators of the game, and the source of all knowledge for Lawn Steel. Most of the target info is in the official rules, located on the web site as a pdf file. Other details are elsewhere in this thread. However, some details, such as the design of the bases of the targets, thickness and type of steel, etc, can be gleaned from discussions with Roy.

Once others see the game in action, it becomes truly addictive. As Roy and others have pointed out, the true nature of the game is that all ammo is hand loaded, and uses custom cast boolits. The rather slow velocity of the boolits also requires careful choices for powder (most of us are using Bullseye or Promo powder. MY choice is Promo (Red Dot, without the red dots. It's pretty inexpensive powder) for the 38's I shoot. And, for the 44 mags, I load Trail Boss for the light recoil. Ditto on the 45 Colts I shoot. I bring three Contenders (38 special, 44 mag, and 45 Colt) and two revolvers (38 special and 44 mag) to every game. Im ready for whatever the line judge calls for the game. NOTE: 38 special can ALWAYS be used, even if the line judge calls for "big caliber". It just puts you at a slight disadvantage when it comes to knocking down the big targets. One of our shooters only owns one Lawn Steel gun, a 357 revolver what he shoots 38 specials in.
So, if anyone is in the Daytona area, we shoot on Tuesday mornings at the Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club on Rt 44 (runs between I4 and I95) . I'll gladly loan you a gun tuned for the game, ammo that is darn near perfect, and my seat on the line. Just bring a roll of nickels, and be ready for a good time. It's not my fault (disclaimer) if you instantly get addicted, and start saying things like, "I love this game!!"

[Pee Wee]

Nancy is shooting very well with her Smith and Wesson. She is also reloading now. Still in the learning curve but coming along nicely. She is begining to make those fuzzy but shoots. ( if you don’t know what this is, just ask and I will explain) and starting to get animal shots. She is still fouling a little and is still a nickel fountain. She is not casting yet and buys her cast Bullets from me.
I love this game.
See you at the range.

[DukeInFlorida]

Yup, Nancy made a good decision trading in her Ruger 3 screw for the Smith. She says she likes is a lot, fits her hand better.
I'll be returning to the range tomorrow AM, after my long drive up to New England to be with my kids for Thanksgiving.
All are invited to join us for a game of Lawn Steel.

[Pee Wee]

We now have another new member. He came to watch and we sat him down to shoot and has been bitten by the bug. He has bought a ruger Blackhawk 38/357 and out looking for a lawnchair. He is also going to start to reload. Another one bits the dust. I love this game.

[Baltimoreed]

I could actually get into this. Never heard of it before 15 minutes ago. What do retired shooters [who don’t want to run, lay on the ground or lug a pickup full of gear to a match] do besides drink iced tea while resting in their lawn chairs? Of course, knock down steel targets with slooow moving bullets. Do you guys even wear hearing protection? Any of this going on in North Carolina?

[gunarea]

Hey Ed
There was a small, sort of Lawnsteel range, near Bryson. Unfortunately for you, that fellow has decided to permanently reside in central Florida. His N.C. place is up for sale and the range has become abandoned. Fortunately for us, he has a full sized Lawnsteel shooting bay here in Fl.. The local Lawnsteel shooters shot at his place yesterday. The club where we would normally shoot Lawnsteel is still flooded. But!!, when you come to Florida(everyone comes to Florida) take the time to come and play some Lawnsteel. Just like any highly addictive substance, we the pushers will give you the first taste for no charge. Really, someone or many, will offer their own personal firearm and custom tuned ammunition for your enjoyment. We keep extra, everything, just to accommodate our lust for new nickels. The ILSA member will loan you a thousand dollar handgun and custom ammo, but don't expect a single five cent token being given. Heck, I'll even loan you my lucky ear plugs, just wipe off the excess smudge. It is extremely rare that someone would have a firearm and ammo properly set up for successful Lawnsteel play. C'mon down and experience how "Really good shots" get turned into "Really good shots". Go to the beginning of this thread, it is a good read.
Hope to see you here.

Roy

[TCLouis]

Some new video would be nice to see on Utube

[Pee Wee]

I could actually get into this. Never heard of it before 15 minutes ago. What do retired shooters [who don’t want to run, lay on the ground or lug a pickup full of gear to a match] do besides drink iced tea while resting in their lawn chairs? Of course, knock down steel targets with slooow moving bullets. Do you guys even wear hearing protection? Any of this going on in North Carolina?


We do indulge in the sprites but after we shoot. Even some home sprites. We do wear ear protection. This the most fun you can have with a loaded weapon. I can’t wait for Tuesday to roll around. We also shoot on the last Sunday of the month.

[Pee Wee]

Some new video would be nice to see on Utube



There are some videos in this thread. Don’t remember what page it’s on but just start at the beginning and work your way thru.

[Pee Wee]

Quick update. We are now shooting two lines. We are getting 9 to twelve people shooting with us on Tuesday and the Sunday’s that we shoot. We have three new people just starting with us. Nancy is no longer the ***. ( new guy)

[jmort]

Always love to hear about this.
I go to Florida on business often
Would love to be the ephemeral ***
Would love to burn a pile of nickles for you all

[Pee Wee]

Well if you get this way and are here on a Tuesday you are invited to come and shoot with us. We shoot at Volusia County gun and Hunt club located on St Rd 44 in Samsula, Fl. We are about 45 min north of downtown Orlando.
Send me a private message and we’ll set you up with everything you need except nickels. Hope you can make it, it’s the most fun you will have shooting a hand gun. I love this game
See you at the range
Pee Wee


Always love to hear about this.
I go to Florida on business often
Would love to be the ephemeral ***
Would love to burn a pile of nickles for you all

[DukeInFlorida]

PM me or PeeWee next time you are going to be in the Daytona area.
We would be happy to lend you a gun set up for the game, and ammo tuned for the gun.
The game has a lot of rules, and the serious players reload cast boolits to meet the rules.
Read the rules here:
http://www.internationallawnsteelshootersassociation.com/ilsa-rules/



Always love to hear about this.
I go to Florida on business often
Would love to be the ephemeral ***
Would love to burn a pile of nickles for you all

[Pee Wee]

We have another new guy. Ed. He has got the lawnsteel fever. So now we have 10 to 12 people shooting on Tuesday. He is starting to get the hang of it. He is shooting with a 38/357 Ruger Blackhawk. He bought himself a lawn chair and starting to get comfortable with it. ( this is a big part of lawnsteel shooting ) now he is working on trigger pull. We now have a 4000 watt generator and 2 fans to help with the heat here in Florida. We shoot from under a covered shelter and also put up a 6x8 tent so we are all shaded. This also lets us shoot if it’s raining. Generally if it does rain while we are shooting it is done by the time a game is complete. A game is timed and last 50 min. So we can get the targets set back up for the next game. We shoot 4 games. We start at 9:00 am and usually we are done around 1:00 to 1:30.
I love this game, see you at the range.
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

Well I finally found a Smith and Wesson model 27. Picking it up on June 15th. It was a safe queen and looks brand new. Came from a collector that is 80 years old and selling off his collection. I have been wanting this gun since I began shooting lawnsteel. I think I am going to keep my Ruger 38/357 Blackhawk also. According to the serial number it was made in 1976 so it should have the target hammer and trigger from the factory, as they stared shipping them with those in 1976. I can’t wait to start shooting that gun in lawnsteel. I will let y’all know how it goes after I get her dialed in. I love this game.
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

We had 13 shooters today. Lawnsteel is growing here in Volusia county. So we have two lines shooting, each line has six shooters so we still had one sit out the first game and then to switch out one for the next game. The temperature hit 98 degrees, we now have a generator and two large fans to help with the heat. It makes it comfortable to shoot in these conditions. We have a couple of new shooters (****) and they are starting to get indoctrinated into the game. Shooting is one part of the game, getting comfortable with your shooting position and how you position your gun, trigger pull, picking your targets and understanding the rules and the different games we play and game equity, and using the proper verbiage to call your shoot are all part of the game and it can be a little intimidating. I’m sure Roy ( The founder and father of lawnsteel) could elaborate on this much more than me. He has seen it all. I love this game. See you at the range
Pee Wee

[Pee Wee]

Ok picked up the Smith and Wesson model 27 on sat. Went to sight in the gun for lawnsteel. As we only shoot low velocity rounds ( we can not exceed 870 feet per second) we have found that the best velocity for us is around 810 feet per second. So we use just three brands of powder. About half of the guys use Promo the other half use Bullseye. I use Bullseye for my 38/357 and Trailboss in my 44/44mag and 45 colt. ( less kick in the big guns) the grains of powder for my gun is 3.4 grains that give me the ft. per sec that I am looking for. We raise the gun barrel pointed at the sky and tap the powder back on to the primer and slowly lower it so powder stays back. So now with this information you can understand that I could not get the sights low enough for point of aim. So I had to do some front and rear sight work. I added .30 thousands to the front sight and subtracted .30 thousands from the rear blade. Went back out today dialed her in and worked great. Very pleased the results. Shot point of aim perfectly. I will be shooting it for the first in tomorrow in the lawnsteel game. Can’t wait. I love this game, see you at the range.
Pee Wee

[ILSAaddict]

Hi All,
This is my first post on Cast Boolits, and I am technically the NFG at ILSA although I’ve been shooting with them for a year. What a great group of shooters. Everyone is very helpful, but its not for the thin skinned personality. Along with the encouragement expect some serious teasing, that is usually well deserved. I always come with lots of nickels. The most I've lost in one day is $4.00 (only once to that disgraceful set of shooting) and managed one day to amass 13 nickels to the good. I consider it a good day to break even. The thing I find most challenging is consistency. Even when you know all the right steps to set up a great shot, I miss. And to add insult to injury, it should have been dead on. I spend a lot of time at home dry firing, and hopefully one day I'll get to the level to give Eddie a run for the high nickel count of the day.

[gunarea]

The beloved; ****in New Guy.
Most powerful force in Lawnsteel. Everyone, likes to be the big brother and mentor of the ***. The top shots get little help, guidance or sympathy for errant shots. Location of shot impact is immediately reported by several to the novice player. Eddie misses a shot and is instantly informed "there goes your perfect game down the ****ter". Regardless of shot placement, a down target by a *** is a good shot. Top guns toppling a target with anything less than "straight back" movement, get a "meh". Just like seeing your kid take their first step, watching a *** progress is exciting. Helping one is even more satisfying. A Lawnsteel *** is far above the average marksmen. Lawnsteel **** are capable of teaching others to load precision ammunition. Everyone playing Lawnsteel, was at one time, an ***. I love ****.

Pee Wee is both an expert and victim of correct verbiage. Correctly identifying the intended target for engagement is a hallmark for successful Lawnsteel play. Without actual play experience, it may be a little difficult to understand. A big part of playing Lawnsteel is playing. No excuses, no pretense. We poke fun at everyone. Wilbur just loves to tell me "good shootin" right after I pound down the wrong target. Loudly thanking a player after collecting a foul nickel is both polite and aggravating at the same time. ILSAaddict is absolutely spot on, don't play in the sand box if sand in your panties disgruntles you. Our **** have become skilled marksmen and adept at both giving and taking ****. Learning to express yourself above the din seems to have a rather short learning curve though. Now add the Mason jar, Dixie plate controversy, and things get stupid. Examples; with a single Lollipop down, a Northerner has "A" lollipop. A Southerner has "UHH" Lollipop. Notherners use "Cell" phones. Southerners use a "Sail" phone. Throw in the occasional brain fart and everyone has a good laugh, although the threat of doing it yourself hangs ever present in the mental shadows.

Duke hit the Linejudge paradox briefly in an earlier post. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. With only a single marginal judgment passed against an ***, revenge seems an inevitable pleasure. However, upon the first empowerment, nearly all are severely intimidated. Time and experience heals the wounds, benevolence is much more prevalent than malevolence. Combine time, experience, intelligence, mischievousness and a overwhelming urge to screw with brains, woo-hoo Linejudge fun happens. What you get is the "NO" game, in ascending order. Sorry no explanation, only experience will suffice here. Read the rules for the full explanation of Linejudge empowerment. Of all whom could be messed with, caution should be exercised when provoking. A Linejudge is elected from within the shooting group and will become painfully aware of the memory capacity of their peers. This powerful sword is very much double sided as all will attest to.

That is my chapter on Lawnsteel for today and my typing limit for June. Until the next time, have an admirable game.

Roy

[Abert Rim]

Wow! How did I miss this thread!

[TCLouis]

Too bad someone would not post some recent Lawn Steel shoot videos.
Maybe even go or the rules somewhat in one.
In a fun lighthearted Lawn Steel sorta manner of course.

[Pee Wee]

Too bad someone would not post some recent Lawn Steel shoot videos.
Maybe even go or the rules somewhat in one.
In a fun lighthearted Lawn Steel sorta manner of course.

Well said Roy oh great wizard of all there is holy of lawnsteel!!!!!!

I love ****

Well TCLouis as a matter of fact Duke of Florida is ramping up for that very thing he has acquired the technology for his phone to video a game to post. Stay tuned. On another note I shot my Smith & Wesson model 27 for the first time last tues in the game and it performed very well. Made some great
Fuzzy butt shots and collected 42 nickels In the three games that I shot in. We shoot 4 games when we come together on Tuesdays, however we had to shoot at Eddie’s and we only have one line at his range. (The club was flooded where we set up two lines so we shot at Eddie’s) therefore we rotate so every one gets to shoot 3 games. I am very satisfied with my new pistol. Love this gun.
So let us know what you would like to see or what information you would like and we will try to show you or tell you about it. I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[Abert Rim]

Pee Wee, what did you use to protect your knees/legs when shooting that Model 27?
Like TC, I am dying to see more Youtubes on your swell game.

[ILSAaddict]

There is a video on You Tube from 2014.

[Abert Rim]

I watched that one and the one from December 2016. I'll admit that based on camera angles it looks like toes might be at some risk, but I am sure y'all have got that sorted out.

[Pee Wee]

Pee Wee, what did you use to protect your knees/legs when shooting that Model 27?
Like TC, I am dying to see more Youtubes on your swell game.

I have made two knee cover out of real cow hide leather. I will take a picture of them tomorrow while we are shooting and post them. Duke is going to shoot a video and post it here. We will show the target set up and try to give you a good perspective of the game from the shooters view.
I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee

[DukeInFlorida]

The "Wilbur" reference in Gunarea's post was with regard to me. My name is actually Orville, so it's one of Roy's regular teasings.

My new cell phone has 256 GIGS of storage, and so I should be able to video just about an entire game (IF I can get the guys to keep the language civil). There are several variations of the game, and the elected LineJudge gets to choose which version the shooters shoot. The setting of the targets changes with every game, and so there are virtually thousands of resultant games. Many with the edge of the required target just barely sticking out past something in front of it.

If you think you are a good shot, try this game.

[DukeInFlorida]

BTW, when I do the video, I will try to capture all of the nuances, angles, called shots, target set, etc.

The very best way, however, to experience the game is to come to Volusia County Gun and Hunt Club, and try it out. BRING NICKELS. We'll let you borrow a chair, borrow a gun and ammo tuned for the game.

[Pee Wee]

Well I took pictures of my knee guards and a line set and I cannot get them to load. Duke videoed our last game today and also showed the target set. He well post soon. We had 9 shooters today. This was not our normal day to shoot so we were missing four of our regulars.

[Hossfly]

Eagerly awaiting the video, put it on while dems are debating tonight,so we’ll have something to watch,LOL. Very interested in seeing how far the targets are from the line, and how positioned. I think its 200 feet and some closer and some farther.

[DukeInFlorida]

Here's my first attempt to post the new videos. I'll try to do them in order and might have to do them over several parts. There are 8 videos in all. While my phone is capable of doing more than two hours of video, my back (cancer is back again) prevents me from more than about 15 minutes at a time.

https://youtu.be/GGeuFrFA2MQ

[DukeInFlorida]

Number 2 of 9

https://youtu.be/00auPnzdaxo

Comments:

All shots are called shots
The basic rules of the game are that you have to knock down two lollipops to "get in the game"
Hitting the target doesn't count. You must knock over all targets to get credit for them.
Once you have two lollipops knocked down, you are "in the game"
The next target to call is one of the "arbitraries"
Those consist of: Rectangular tombstone looking targets called, "QUITS" (The rules actually call them "QTS") there are 12 of those, AND....
Arbitraries are also four "card suits", hearts, diamonds, clubs, and spades. There are four of each of those, numbered sequentially.
Once you call, and knock down an arbitrary, that earns you an "animal shot."
There are Rams (the largest) - 2 of those, Pigs - 4 of those, Turkeys- 4 of those, Geese- 3 of those, Chickens - 4 of those, and finally "Mickey Mouse, and "Joe Corpsman",. The animals, with the exception of the Mickey/Minnie mouse and Joe Corpsman targets, are numbered sequentially.
If you knock down an earned and called animal shot, everyone pays you a nickel. The rules officially call the payment "LETS" so that none of us get in trouble for er um... gambling... during live fire exercises. Missing doesn't cost you anything, per se. However, if you call an animal shot, and miss that, you have to re-earn the animal shot by shooting another called arbitrary.
IF, however, you call a shot, miss, and in the course of doing so, you accidentally knock down something else, that is a "foul" and you have to pay everyone a nickel.
Sometimes more than one arbitrary or animal falls. As long as the original target to fall was the called shot, you get credit for the additional knocked down targets.

[DukeInFlorida]

Number 3 of 8

https://youtu.be/jHI3lmieMvk

Comments:

I spent some time filming the various guns they all shoot, and the position they are in while shooting
At no time are any feet or toes in the way. The game is extremely SAFE
I also tried to catch the "banter" of the game
Each shooter is responsible to keep track of where they are in the game
So, you'll typically hear, "I'm not in the game, but I do have one lollipop, and I will shoot lollipop 3"
Or, "I am in the game, but don't have an animal shot, I'll shoot at Heart 1"
Or, "I am in the game, and have an animal shot, and will shoot Ram 2"
In all instances, the "I love this game" is an optional thing to say. Many people, having a bad day, will be slightly disgruntled, and might say, I kinda like this game" Or, leave that part out completely.
Typically, the others DO HAVE a sense for where ALL shooters are in the game, and will excitedly point out when you do or don't have an animal shot earned.
Those working on a perfect game, where there are no misses of called shots, will hear from at least a couple of players when they blow the perfect game with an errant shot

[DukeInFlorida]

Video #4

https://youtu.be/058mhVPw3cw

Video #5

https://youtu.be/J7EddoS0by8

[DukeInFlorida]

Video #6

https://youtu.be/2PBfouQMWP0

Video #7

https://youtu.be/Yr6qsY2zquQ

Video 8 of 8

https://youtu.be/XbPJXu6JkJ0

Tried to catch some action of the targets falling down.
Did all of this with my cell phone, which has limited zoom. So, sorry for the occasionally wiggly camera work.
To properly cover the game with cameras, it would take at least three camera (two obviously on tripods with no humans in front of the shooting line), and a roving camera walking behind the shooters, and some fancy split screen editing so that you get to see where the shots hit, targets or dirt. I don't have any of that equipment, nor skills. Hoping that the provided videos do it justice.
As previously said, the best way to experience this game is to come and shoot it in person. We'll let you borrow a chair, a gun and ammo both tuned for the game. Bring your own nickels, er um, "LETS"....

[DukeInFlorida]

I'll add details and comments for each video later, do reach is in some perspective.

Here's one perspective:
You can have a horribly bad shooting day, full of fouls, missed shots, etc, and it's likely to cost you no more than a roll and a half of nickels. Where can you go, have four + hours of non stop fun, and have it only cost you three bucks?

The guys (and one gal) carry LETS around in all sorts of Glad snap lid containers, cigar tubes, and pouch type bags. I had been using a velvet liquor bottle bag (you know which brand! Has the word, Crown in it), until the bag got so full that it was busting the seams. Had to sew up a denim bag, which is more than sufficient to hold all the nickels I win every week. One of our buddies, who hasn't shot in ages (wish he would come back and shoot!) has literally JARS of nickels all over his home. Door stops, etc. He's an excellent shot, and the nickels prove it. Er um, I mean LETS... lol

[dannyd]

Seminole County?

[ILSAaddict]

Location is: Volusia Gun & Hunt Club.

Great videos Duke in Florida,,,thanks

[Pee Wee]

Eagerly awaiting the video, put it on while dems are debating tonight,so we’ll have something to watch,LOL. Very interested in seeing how far the targets are from the line, and how positioned. I think its 200 feet and some closer and some farther.

Hossfly it is 156 feet to the front line 195 Feet to the back line. So there are 150 feet in 50 yards and 195 feet is 65 yards. We also put the chickens and joe corpsman on the berm and that is 70 yards.

[Pee Wee]

Pee Wee, what did you use to protect your knees/legs when shooting that Model 27?
Like TC, I am dying to see more Youtubes on your swell game.

Albert Rim if you can see the covers on Paul’s, Randy’s and my legs those are the leather that I made.

[Hossfly]

Pee Wee what is the Joe Corpsman, is that the orange cone with the Golfball on top?

[Hossfly]

Ok I went back and look at #2 video and the Joe Coreman is way back behind Mickey Mouse.

[Hossfly]

Ok I got the yardage down, now about the hand cannons. Those all look and sound like 38 special and loaded to 800-900 fps is that the limit or what specifically cail. And power Required.

[DukeInFlorida]

So, some answers to the questions.
I strongly suggest that you read the official rules for the game, which are posted previously in this thread, and also on the ILSA website, which has a clickable link in my signature line.

We shoot either "small caliber" or "large caliber" depending on the whim of the line judge.

Small caliber refers to 38 special/357 magnum. Great debate whether one is superior to the other. The benefit of the 38 Specials is that in the very light loads we are assembling (810-820 fps, approx), the smaller size "pressure vessel" yields more consistent velocities. The 357 magnums use basically the same amount of powder, and even with the same headstamps, gives more stretchy variation from case to case. However, the 38 Specials also have a bit of a jump to get to the barrel, vs 357 Magnums (all guns are 357 Mag chambered.) So, I, and many others, find the best accuracy and consistency of velocity when firing the 38's in the 357 Mag guns.

Large caliber typically, for most of them, means 44 Specials or 44 Magnums. However, a few of us also have 45 Colt Contenders, and occasionally use those in a large caliber match. The recoil for normal powders is a bit much for some of us, and we tend to use Trail Boss, adjusted in the cartridge to yield best accuracy and within the velocity parameters required by the game. However, when a line judge calls a large caliber game, those who prefer, are allowed to shoot their 38 specials, knowingb that they will be at a disadvantage. A couple of the shooters show up to every match with ONLY ONE GUN, a 357 Mag, chambered with 38 Specials.

[Paul#9]

Orville this was a great first time video try at what goes on at our shoots!
Hope everyone sees how much fun we have. It’s really true that the camera adds 20 pounds to a person :)

[Abert Rim]

Duke, thank you for the Youtube video dump! Lots to watch. Very, very sorry to hear about your back issues.

[Pee Wee]

Hossfly: Roy called small caliber revolver so they are all revolvers, 38/357. Jackie,Nancy,and I shoot Smith & Wesson model 27-2
8 3/8 inch barrel. Gary,Randy,Roy,Derry,Jack,Gunnar and Eddie shoot Ruger Blackhawk 6 1/2 inch barrel. Greg shoots his service colt trooper that he had rebarreled to 8 inch and Paul shots a Colt Python with 8 inch barrel and Duke shoots a Ruger GP100 with 6 inch barrel. Its about 50/50 on the case being either 38 special and 357mag. We do extensive load development. We cannot exceed 850 FPS. So that includes powder and cases. We use the same headstamp. It takes about 100 rounds to settle on a case, powder and fps. I use Bullseye. It’s about 50/50 between Bullseye and Promo. I use 3.4 grains in a 357 federal case. My FPS is 790, this is where my gun shoots the best group for me. We shoot for around 800 to 820 FPS for the best apex of the bullet, that is so the point of aim is the same from the front line to the back line. I always aim for the top 1/4 of the target. Now this is for small caliber. We have a large caliber class. You can find the different class specs. In the rules. Let me know if you have any other questions. Be happy to help.
I love this game. See you at the range
Pee Wee (aka Keith)

[Pee Wee]

FYI we have various guns we can shoot. Revolvers and single shoot pistols. Most of us shoot Thompson Contenders Gen. 2
Roy and Gary shoot rolling block Urbertti in 38/357 about 6 of us have Contenders in 38/357mag, 44/44 mag and Duke and I have Long Colt 45. I carry 6 guns to shoot in lawnsteel. I know I know but but but.

[DukeInFlorida]

The powders that seem to be preferred are:
38/357 - Bullseye and Red Dot or Promo (Promo is basically Red Dot without the red dots)
44 mag/specials - Bullseye or Trail Boss

We all choose head stamps to suit availability. My 38's are Winchester, and my 44 Mags and 45 Colts are Starline.
Some of the guys shoot 357 Mags with Fed or R-P head stamps
Others shoot 38 specials with Fed, R-P, or whatever they had the most of to produce a matched set of a few hundred.

See the rules for velocity limits, and bullet weight limits. Yes, the bullets cannot weigh more than a specific amount. Most of us are shooting Lyman 358665 cast very soft for the 38's. And, Lyman 429215 with aluminum gas check for the 44's. I also cast a 260 g RFN (don't remember the Lyman mold number) also aluminum gas checked for the 45 Colt. I know PeeWee casts a 262 flat base SWC for his 45 Colt. He's given me some samples to test.

Be aware that all boolits cast for this game are custom alloyed. The bullets MUST obturate in use. So, commercial cast usually won't work. And, commercially loaded ammo is too hot for the rules. To relly play for nickels, you need to custom cast, and custom reload, and then have a gun with a hair trigger, suitable for a match style game. The front sights on these guns normally have to get really adjusted higher than factory normal. Kind of like lobbing rocks at the targets. High trajectories. The concept for the velocity is to get the apogee (highest point in the trajectory) about in the middle of the target range. That way, you can aim at about the same aim point for all targets, front to back.

[DukeInFlorida]

Actually, Pee Wee, the Contenders are Gen 1!
Gen 2 were made with soldered on cast front sights, and a flattened trigger. Gen ones are typically pinned front sights (can change out the blades) and a curved trigger.

I also carry a small caliber revolver and Contender, a 44 Mag revolver and Contender, and the 45 Colt Contender. PeeWee has me beat by one gun! LOL


FYI we have various guns we can shoot. Revolvers and single shoot pistols. Most of us shoot Thompson Contenders Gen. 2
Roy and Gary shoot rolling block Urbertti in 38/357 about 6 of us have Contenders in 38/357mag, 44/44 mag and Duke and I have Long Colt 45. I carry 6 guns to shoot in lawnsteel. I know I know but but but.

[Hossfly]

I have the original TC with 3 Bbl s, .22,357 with shot shell choke that you unscrew to shoot solid, and .44 mag X 14’’. Think I will try the .357 barrel and see how it shoots through the chrono with my cast boolits and powder. From what I saw on the vids you guys have honed your shooting to a fine art. Thanks for the videos and the info, rules etc. excellent.

[DukeInFlorida]

The max length allowed by the rules of ILSA is a 10" barrel.
Also, it has been found, through thorough testing that the barrels with the chokes do not perfrom well enough, and are to be avoided. When I was looking for my 44 mag Contender barrel, I passed on almost a dozen of them that had the "snake" choke.
So, anything with 14" barrel is not allowed in the game.

[DukeInFlorida]

Here are the Lawn Steel Rules, just to make it easy for all to get to:

Lawn Steel Rules (http://www.internationallawnsteelshootersassociation.com/wp-content/uploads/lawnsteel-rules.pdf)

PS, I tried to get a clean copy from Gunarea (Roy), but the software that he used to create it makes an unusual file that cannot be imported into any other software.
I'm gonna ask him to create a NEW copy using like MS Word or something exportable.

[Hossfly]

The max length allowed by the rules of ILSA is a 10" barrel.
Also, it has been found, through thorough testing that the barrels with the chokes do not perfrom well enough, and are to be avoided. When I was looking for my 44 mag Contender barrel, I passed on almost a dozen of them that had the "snake" choke.
So, anything with 14" barrel is not allowed in the game.

I didn’t know the choke would affect accuracy if the choke was removed. I know it will if you shoot with choke on because is restricts the boolit when it leaves the barrel, don’t ask how I know this. It may have something to do with the harmonics of the barrel, with the front adapter bring silver soldered to muzzle. Anyway I’ve got the 357 barrel reinstalled and will do some testing and see how it does at the lower velocity.

[Pee Wee]

Let us know the results please

[DukeInFlorida]

I've passed on a BUNCH of barrels, primarily 44 mags with that choke system. They were pretty cheap barrels. Just better having a non-choked barrel. Yeah, let us know.

[Pee Wee]

number 2 of 9

https://youtu.be/00aupnzdaxo

comments:

all shots are called shots
the basic rules of the game are that you have to knock down two lollipops to "get in the game"
hitting the target doesn't count. You must knock over all targets to get credit for them.
once you have two lollipops knocked down, you are "in the game"
the next target to call is one of the "arbitraries"
those consist of: Rectangular tombstone looking targets called, "quits" there are 18 of those, and....
arbitraries are also four "card suits", hearts, diamonds, clubs, and spades. There are four of each of those.
once you call, and knock down an arbitrary, that earns you an "animal shot."
there are rams (the largest) - 2 of those, pigs - 4 of those, turkeys- 4 of those, geese- 3 of those, chickens - 4 of those, and finally "mickey mouse, and "joe corpsman",
if you knock down an earned and called animal shot, everyone pays you a nickel. Missing doesn't cost you anything, per se. However, if you call an animal shot, and miss that, you have to re-earn the animal shot by shooting another called arbitrary.
if, however, you call a shot, miss, and in the course of doing so, you accidentally knock down something else, that is a "foul" and you have to pay everyone a nickel.
sometimes more than one arbitrary or animal falls. As long as the original target to fall was the called shot, you get credit for the additioinal knocked down targets.


NO.6 section actually there are only 12

[DukeInFlorida]

I fixed the number, buddy. I haven't yet seen those images that you were going to send to me for posting.

Also, Roy advised that I had a video missing, that one of the ones originally posted was a dupe.
I have also corrected that. There are now the proper 8 videos, presented in order.
I'll be adding links to the ILSA web site for those videos also.

[DukeInFlorida]

A NEW Edition of the Rules is being finalized. A clearer copy will result. Thanks to Camper64 for his part is making this happen.
I'll update this post as soon as that is finalized.

New rules have been uploaded to the ILSA web site.

[Pee Wee]

We had ten shooters today. So we had two lines running. 3 of the guys had Doctor appointments and couldn’t make it. My new (0ld, 1975) Smith & Wesson model 27 is shooting really good. I am so pleased with this pistol. Nancy has gotten her 27 dialed in and starting to shoot well. She is starting to make some fuzzy butt shots. It was 100 degrees out there today but with the generator on powering two large fans and shooting from under the structure it wasn’t to bad. However when done and picking up the targets and loading onto the trailers it got a little hot. However some of us go and have a few cold ones and relax and have a little fellowship talking.
Can’t wait for next Tuesday. You just can’t imagine how much fun this is. I love this game.
See you at the range
Pee Wee