44 Russian mould

[Hednign]

Little bit about myself. Im totally new in here... A friend of mine up in Wisconsin suggested this forum for me. Myself live in Norway. By that I mean the country Norway. Eastern part. Deep woods. Lot of moose, wolf, bear, beer and shooting.

That should cover it.... Now. A while ago I was lucky enough to come over an original genuine S&W Russian model 3. Its in pretty good shape. Mechanical its very good. Barrel got some frost signs though. What troubles me is that I cant find a mould that pleases me. They are all to.....modern. What Im looking for is one that got at least two grease grooves. Doesent hurt if they are deep. I would like to find a mould that make close to matching old style "Russian" bullets. Iv slugged the chamber and barrel, and the best measurment should be .431".... Oh, and I shoot blackpowder ONLY in the old timers.

While Im at it... I would be glad to receive suggestions on Springfield trapdoor and Martini Henry moulds aswell. In the trapdoor Im NOT looking for bullet weight below 500 grs. Henry nothing below 480 grs. That trapdoor by the way is wowfully accurate to be an old military iron. We have been trying them at the 600m range, and you would not dare to moon me at that range.

I hope there are some with Norwegian blood in here. And I hope they all know what day it is today....

Ha en jævlig fin dag..

H..

[Trey45]

Welcome to the forum! Have a look at Himmelwright wadcutters for your 44 Russian:
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell-Himmelwright-Wadcutters.htm
Not a traditional old style bullet, but interesting. Lee has a "traditional" 44 bullet mold here:
http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1274050388.4338=/html/catalog/bullmol2.html
Scroll down to the 44 SPECIAL - 44 MAG - 44/40 section, look for 429-240-2R, and maybe the 429-200-RF.
You might want to check out the group buy section from time to time, we have several fine mold makers on this forum who make molds for group buys. You might find an active group buy for what you want, or a left over mold from an old group buy still for sale.

Have a Happy Constitution Day , or is it National Day? The Constitution of Norway was signed in 1814 making Norway independent.

[GLL]

Here is the original IDEAL 429220 Himmelwright wadcutter Trey mentioned (left)! BRP makes an updated version of this mould.

You might also consider the IDEAL 429106 as well.

Jerry

http://www.fototime.com/6D3BDA991524608/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/A4E76F5E9A89CAE/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/681BC62CC7CF140/standard.jpg

[1874Sharps]

Hednign,

Wahoo, and welcome to the forum. It just so happens that I too own an S&W #3 New Model 44 Russian and love to shoot it in cowboy action shooting matches (CAS). Like you I use only black powder and settled in a load of 17 grains of FFFG under a Lyman 429421 245 grain boolit with SPG lube. That particular boolit shoots quite well and has a generously deep grease groove that holds plenty of lube to control the fouling. I think the 44 Russian was originally loaded with a 245 grain boolit, but I might not be right about that. What I can say for sure is that load and boolit works great in both my #3 and 44 Special Colt SAA. I cast the boolits up with an uncertain alloy (recovered range lead and enough pure lead to make it somewhat soft) and it does not lead. I can easily shoot a whole box or more and not have to clean in between. It works!

[Bass Ackward]

Welcome Hednign.

There are many mold makers here. And many sites to visit. The only thing required from you is patience. I say this because you ask for something that is almost gone today. The older, semi-round nose designs are not plentiful, but not impossible to find.

But, one that will carry enough lube to perform the tasks you set in front of it, particularly with the frost, will be difficult.

In the end, you may have to compromise for the sake of function, but the journey is yours to take.

We used to have a regular from your geographical area named Reijo who was a Finn. He made the same claims of heaven with moose and bear and beer and shooting. (and snow) What he did not have was lots of women. I think he must have found one, we don't hear from him much any more.

Again welcome.

[mooman76]

Not much I could add but a big welcome anyway!

[ddixie884]

Look in the Vendor section at BRP. BA Bore is cutting a 433383, and I beleive he is going to offer a 433190 type of a mold, with 2 lube grooves. These would be available as single order molds, not group buys. Welcome to the board. These are friendly, and helpful folks. You will be glad you came here.

[Bent Ramrod]

Welcome to the Forum. The Lee 429-240-2R is a roundnose that looks properly "period" for an old revolver, and I believe Lyman still lists the 429241 round nose, for the .44 Russian and Special.

Not to say I don't shoot a fair number of SWC and other designs, but I prefer the look of the old roundnose boolit in the .44 Special (and the roundnose with the tiny flat point in the .45 Colt) myself.

[shooter93]

The Lee 429-240-2r or any mold that pretty much duplicates that nose style is period correct. It's the type loaded originally.

[Hednign]

Thanks guys. Bouth Lee and Lyman moulds might work well enough. But that Himmelwright wadcutter sure looks good. Think Ill have to try and get me one of those.

And yes, I think Im going to enjoy this forum in the future.

I got one more question while Im in here. A guy a few miles south of me is selling lead. "Boat" lead. We call it ballast lead. I would buy all of it if I was sure there was no Antimony in it. Does any of you happen to know if its common to put Antimony into boat lead??

I survived our national day.... Hope most of you did too...

[Trey45]

What's wrong with an antimonial lead for casting boolits with?

Ballast lead can be anything from pure, to any number of alloys, including but not limited to antimonial alloys.

[94Doug]

Probably not a lot of Lutefisk eaters here. But you'll learn lots.

Doug

[Dale53]

Hednign;
There are a number of Lyman bullet moulds that might serve you well;

1 - 429383 is the original bullet shape but has limited bullet lube capacity and
would NOT be my first choice for black powder.

2 - 429667 is a "Cowboy Bullet" and is "somewhat" shaped like you want. It
has a nice, large lube groove that facilitates black powder use. It has a
good crimp groove and should work just fine in the S&W #3 (bullet weight
is correct and should shoot to the sights).

3 - 429421 is my SPECIALLY favorite bullets for the .44 Special and .44
Magnum revolvers and will work quite well in the S&W #3. I have taken
several head of deer with this bullet and hold it in high regard. However, for
your purposes it does not have the "correct" shape.

4 - The Lee bullet would not be my favorite for black powder. Even tho' it has
two lube grooves, it appears to be deficient in lube capacity.

Understand, ONE good lube groove is sufficient. I have shot a LOT of black powder cartridge handguns in competition and the Lyman Cowboy bullet works VERY well and it is accurate as well. I use 30/1 lead/tin in my black powder revolver loads but others have done quite well with WW's as bullet metal and some have had good luck with WW's/lead 50/50 plus 2% tin for better castability.

Be sure and use a good black powder lube. I have had excellent results with SPG lube. My favorite is Emmert's home mix (50% Pure Natural Beeswax, 40% Crisco shortening (looks like lard), and 10% Canola oil. All measurements are by melted volume. Melt ONLY in a double boiler to avoid heat damaging the lube. Emmert's is no better than SPG but works just as well.

FWIW
Dale53

[Wayne Smith]

Also look at Dick Dasterdly's BigLubeLLc molds. His are designed to shoot with BP and have adequate lube.

[Hednign]

That Lyman 429421 might work. The grease groove seems to be big and good. And the weight is right in the neighbourhood of the original bullet.

To answer a question up there. I dont want antimon in my black powder bullets simply because I want soft bullets. My old originals would not like hard "modern" bullets at all.

Lutefisk is good. Its a november december thing. Usually we tend to have to much Aquavit on the side, but I dont mind that. I guess that Finn member would know how it usually turns out.

Me and many in the BP club are using SPG lube. If its any better than some of the homemade stuff, I dont know. A good mix is the 200 grams of canning paraffin, 200 grams of mutton tallow and 100 grams of beeswax.

A friend of mine push a wad greased up with SPG lube through the barrel before the 1. shot when he shoots long range with the Springfield trapdoor. It makes the first shot close to the others.

Dick Dasterdly.....isnt that i fictional guy???

Oh man...clock is 1 am, and Im supposed to get up in just a few hours. Ill be back..

[94Doug]

I have given Aquavit a try. Uff dah. Good luck in your venture.

Doug

[Hednign]

I have given Aquavit a try. Uff dah. Good luck in your venture.

Doug



He he.... If you`r not familiar with the stuff you should try it together with heavy food. By that I mean real fat food... Together with grease its good.... AND, you got to have your favorite beer on the side too.

My favorite aquavits are Zimmers, Gammel (old) Oppland and Linje (linie). Zimmers is a clear one, the others "standard" color..... Have a bottle, and the neighbours can tell you good stories about yourself the day after......Belive me.

[45 2.1]

BRP Custom Molds has a new one, a 433383 RN 44 boolit:

http://www.brp.castpics.net/P2.html

[JIMinPHX]

"boat lead" is about as consistent as scuba weight lead. They can be made out of just about anything. I would try to mark it with my thumbnail & see how much it dents. If you can't mark it with your thumbnail, then it's probably too hard to be using with black powder.

[AzShooter]

The Lee 240 comes out of my mold at 245 grains using wheel weights. Here is what it looks like in the Russian.

Buy the 6 cavity mould and it will save you a lot of time to get a bunch of bullets ready.

[Dale53]

Hednign;
45 2.1 has an EXCELLENT suggestion for you. BRP's new bullet should be just EXACTLY what you are looking for.

The picture shows that is has an adequate grease groove for a black powder lube, it has an excellent crimp groove, and it has the shape you are looking for.

If I had your criteria, THAT's the one I would buy in a mould with as many cavities as available. When using an aluminum mould, I like a five or six cavity mould although a four cavity will allow you to cast a lot of bullets.

FWIW
Dale53

[Hednign]

Iv send an mail to BRP. Hopefully they will send me a mould within a few days. Thanks guys. I would not have been able to find a good mould without your help.

Next thing is to find a good mould for the 12.17x44. Got a good pile of Kongsbergs, Husquarnas and Carl Gustavs. Got a Granberg and a Carlsborg too. Some of them are just shait, but one of the Husquarnas are very good. I just cant find a good mould anymore. Used to be something called jämttången, scandinavian design. But its nowhere to be found these days.

Ill let you know if I can make the old Russian punch nice tight groupings.

Hope summer is blooming over there... bit late over here.

Have a great one

[SciFiJim]

Summer is late coming here as well. It is 20°F cooler than normal.

Get some or all of the ballast lead. If it is as hard to find there as it is getting here, you can trade it to someone that has soft lead and needs harder lead.

[Hednign]

Yup. Me and a guy in the club bought all the lead. We havent picked it up yet, but we will within a few days. My long range BP rifle likes hard lead. So if it turnes out to be hard, no problemo. Bisley like it too.

I got an answer from BRP today. I think Ill go for their mould. Looks old timeish and has a good grease groove. Should make me happy.

[JIMinPHX]

You might want to contact these guys about this mold - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=83061

[insanelupus]

Hednign,

Perhaps I missed it, but you may try to find an old Lyman/Ideal #429336 mould. It was originally designed by C.E. Heath of the Boston Revolver Club as a target bullet for the .44 Russian according to Glenn Fryxell (and I believe I've seen that quoted elsewhere). http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell44SWC.htm

In addition, I've also at times read that there is a possibility that this particular design may have been a heavy influence on Keith's later semi-wadcutter style design so popular even today. I'm not sure of this myself, but I have seen that mentioned.

I found a single cavity a long time ago, never have cast with it, yet. I'm looking forward to trying it this summer though. Good luck.